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Euronly official After Hours soccerball thread

1…5859616364…76

Comments

  • #1802
    BBDBB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,899 ✭✭✭✭BBDBB


    LorMal wrote: »
    You know as well as I do that they tried their best. They were nervous.
    They weren't not bothered. I imagine it must be very stressful playing for England - if you lose you are vilified, if you win it was only to be expected.

    They looked haunted at the end.




    They did, the enormity of their failure had been dawning on them for over an hour. Instead of spurring them on to action, commitment and pace, it made them timid, indecisive and clumsy


    I do find it difficult to give them much sympathy though, those lads have all been kicking a ball about since they were kids, they were the best in their school, best in their county/district, given time off school so they could attend training, they made it through a constant and brutal selection process and have emerged to be considered the best in their country, they get paid a fortune, literally more money in a year than most people will see in a working lifetime.
    To show so little desire to get on and play the ball forward, to send short passes, straight to the opposition, to take shots and crosses and be so far wide that youd see better from a pub team.
    To look utterly bereft of ideas, simply re-cycling the ball instead of actually moving and penetrating the Iceland defence was practically criminal. The quality of shot and pass was truly abysmal at times


    No wonder they looked haunted, they looked like George Osbourne on Monday morning


  • #1803
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,339 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    LorMal wrote: »
    its their job - nobody else gets paid. Its entertainment for everyone else. You'd swear it was important.

    I'd hate to see a doctor who did her job as sloppily. Or a dentist. Or a pilot.

    These guys are getting far more and they don't care?


  • #1804
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,586 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    LorMal wrote: »
    Pride and passion in what? Its only a game. If a one bunch of 11 players play better than another bunch of 11 players - what have you go to be proud about?

    If you played in the match then certainly be proud by all means. If you just watched the game you have absolutely zero to be proud about.

    This is where the whole thing is a bit delusional. Danny Baker jumping up and down and calling the players "You ****ing awful craven humiliating disgrace. Go on you ****ers pick up your PL wages you cheap ****s. You worms. **** you".

    What an idiot.
    I'm not in agreement with you about everything here but I definitely had the likes of Danny baker in mind when I was talking about the English pundits. That sort of blatant click baiting is creepy and scummy. The players did their best, there weren't good enough. Suck it up. That kind of talk provokes venom and encourages the worst kind of scumbag element in the support to give vent to their own anger and inadequacy. As I say, if I was an English footballer I wouldn't play for the team, I just don't see what the benefit is. Work your balls off to try and get the adulation of people who will call you every name under the sun if you come up short? No thanks, I'll go on holidays with my beautiful wife and my millions of pounds thanks.


  • #1805
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    LorMal wrote: »
    Medicine is important. Football is a game. GAA is also taken far too seriously - fighting on the pitch etc.

    Do you not think it might just be an expression of our humanity and therefore quite important, if irrational, like most of the things in your and everyone's life.


  • #1806
    Maireadio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    kfallon wrote: »
    Mick McCarthy's last game as manager v Switzerland?
    kfallon wrote: »
    Also the Steve Staunton era, the team got dogs abuse in San Marino.
    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    Our fans booed when we lost to Cyprus that time in Lansdowne as well.

    I stand corrected! :pac:
    LorMal wrote: »
    We have low expectations . If we do well, we are delighted. If we play rubbish, we are not really surprised.
    Irish people are not some special angels - most people are the same around the world.
    Only morons boo sportspeople.

    Like I said, I didn't buy into the "Best fans in the world" stuff.

    However, England's fan have a terrible track record and never seem to manage to redeem themselves.


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  • #1807
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    LorMal wrote: »
    You know as well as I do that they tried their best. They were nervous.
    They weren't not bothered. I imagine it must be very stressful playing for England - if you lose you are vilified, if you win it was only to be expected.

    They looked haunted at the end.

    Being nervous is not an excuse at this level, they're professionals who are extremely well paid. I tend to think that they are now so well paid from a young age that they just can't be arsed with international football.

    I didn't see the match against Wales, but I saw their other three games and their performances ranged from lacklustre against Russia to shockingly bad against both Slovakia & Iceland.

    If the FA want England to be serious contenders then they need to change a lot more than just their manager.


  • #1808
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    Iceland is supposed to be cheap, poor Joe Hart saved nothing!

    I laughed wayyyy too much at that :D


  • #1809
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    I'd hate to see a doctor who did her job as sloppily. Or a dentist. Or a pilot.

    These guys are getting far more and they don't care?

    They do care - probably far too much in my opinion. Its treated like life or death in England - ridiculous. They get dogs abuse and are called all sorts of abusive names in the media and by 'supporters'.

    Its football, not ww2.


  • #1810
    Maireadio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    Being nervous is not an excuse at this level, they're professionals who are extremely well paid.

    Alan Shearer made that very point on MoTD last night. He pointed out that all teams are under pressure out there, not just England, so it's no excuse.


  • #1811
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    Being nervous is not an excuse at this level, they're professionals who are extremely well paid. I tend to think that they are now so well paid from a young age that they just can't be arsed with international football.

    I didn't see the match against Wales, but I saw their other three games and their performances ranged from lacklustre against Russia to shockingly bad against both Slovakia & Iceland.

    If the FA want England to be serious contenders then they need to change a lot more than just their manager.

    Its not an excuse. Its a key reason England never really perform to their potential. The whole thing is made out to be immensely important and it scares the bejaysus out off the players. They are not free to enjoy playing - they are scared stiff.
    The money thing is irrelevant. Paying someone more money doesn't make them less nervous.


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  • #1812
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    LorMal wrote: »
    Its not an excuse. Its a key reason England never really perform to their potential. The whole thing is made out to be immensely important and it scares the bejaysus out off the players. They are not free to enjoy playing - they are scared stiff.
    The money thing is irrelevant. Paying someone more money doesn't make them less nervous.

    That was their potential....their just shtie :pac:

    Imagine getting paid that much to be that bad....hamann pretty much called it IMO


  • #1813
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Maireadio wrote: »
    Alan Shearer made that very point on MoTD last night. He pointed out that all teams are under pressure out there, not just England, so it's no excuse.

    Not to the same extent as the English. 'England Expects' (Shearer had his own share of haunted nights playing for England himself!)


  • #1814
    Maireadio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    LorMal wrote: »
    Not to the same extent as the English. 'England Expects' (Shearer had his own share of haunted nights playing for England himself!)

    If someone who has experienced being on the brunt of that expectation has no sympathy for the pressure they are under, he's someone worth listening to. He has been there. And arguably, he went through it at a time when there was even more pressure heaped on the England players.


  • #1815
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    [
    QUOTE=LorMal;100191109]Its not an excuse. Its a key reason England never really perform to their potential. The whole thing is made out to be immensely important and it scares the bejaysus out off the players. They are not free to enjoy playing - they are scared stiff

    For a professional footballer there should be nothing more important than playing for your national team at a major tournament - nothing.

    The money thing is irrelevant. Paying someone more money doesn't make them less nervous.

    Absolute nonsense. They aren't delicate ickle-wickle lambs. England's performance weren't caused by nerves or a lack of ability, it was caused by a total lack of hunger to go out and win.


  • #1816
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,339 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    Absolute nonsense. They aren't delicate ickle-wickle lambs. England's performance weren't caused by nerves or a lack of ability, it was caused by a total lack of hunger to go out and win.

    As I said earlier, they were totally focused and hungry for the match...

    ...against France.

    They couldn't imagine a scenario that saw them slipping up (hah) against Iceland.


  • #1817
    Rothko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    LorMal wrote: »
    Its a game. Its supposed to be played for enjoyment. Its not in the least bit serious. It doesn't matter at all. I am always amazed how utterly miserable and serious looking the RTE pundits are. Jaysus, cracka feckin smile for once in your life Giles, Brady and Dunphy.

    Poor England players taking that **** from their commentators and pundits. I hope they secretly don't give a **** - I know I wouldn't. Its a game - how unintelligent do you have to be to take it seriously.

    Meh. I'm sure there's at least one thing that you feel passionate about that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Passion is what makes sport (among other things) great.


  • #1818
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    [

    For a professional footballer there should be nothing more important than playing for your national team at a major tournament - nothing.

    Absolute nonsense. They aren't delicate ickle-wickle lambs. England's performance weren't caused by nerves or a lack of ability, it was caused by a total lack of hunger to go out and win.

    Really? Because they weren't bothered? Wanted to get to the beach maybe? Young men who have dreamed of playing for England since they were little boys, were not bothered when playing in the Euros?
    Nah.


  • #1819
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Maireadio wrote: »
    If someone who has experienced being on the brunt of that expectation has no sympathy for the pressure they are under, he's someone worth listening to. He has been there. And arguably, he went through it at a time when there was even more pressure heaped on the England players.

    As I said, he faded himself under the same weight of expectation. He's just being populist now. Easily done from the studio.


  • #1820
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    As I said earlier, they were totally focused and hungry for the match...

    ...against France.

    They couldn't imagine a scenario that saw them slipping up (hah) against Iceland.

    I think the opposite. I think if they had been playing one of the big teams (Germany, France, Spain), they would have been somewhat relieved of the weight of expectation and therefore freer to express themselves.
    The fact that they were playing 'minnows' really killed them. They were so terrified of losing, they panicked for 90 minutes.


  • #1821
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Suas11 wrote: »
    Meh. I'm sure there's at least one thing that you feel passionate about that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Passion is what makes sport (among other things) great.

    Absolutely. Playing sport is fantastic and I am passionate about it. I really enjoy watching sport too, but I don't take it as a personal affront if my team loses.
    Some of those English pundits and supporters are really livid - full of hate. It's childish.


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  • #1822
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    LorMal wrote: »
    Really? Because they weren't bothered? Wanted to get to the beach maybe? Young men who have dreamed of playing for England since they were little boys, were not bothered when playing in the Euros?
    Nah.

    England haven't consistently played well at a major tournament since 1996, I still contend that there problem is far deeper than nerves.

    Anyway, you've made your point and I've made my mine. We'll just have to agree to disagree.


  • #1823
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    England haven't consistently played well at a major tournament since 1996, I still contend that there problem is far deeper than nerves.

    Anyway, you've made your point and I've made my mine. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

    I agree there is more to it than that. But its definitely an important factor. I lived in Holland for years. There the emphasis is on skill, self expression, confidence. It's not perfect either - they are very arrogant - but the Anglo Saxon mentality values aggression over grace.


  • #1824
    Maireadio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 662 ✭✭✭Maireadio


    LorMal wrote: »
    As I said, he faded himself under the same weight of expectation. He's just being populist now. Easily done from the studio.

    He has put himself forward for the manager job so he's not just being an armchair critic.


  • #1825
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,586 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    LorMal wrote: »
    I agree there is more to it than that. But its definitely an important factor. I lived in Holland for years. There the emphasis is on skill, self expression, confidence. It's not perfect either - they are very arrogant - but the Anglo Saxon mentality values aggression over grace.

    Worked a treat for Holland!!!


  • #1826
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    Worked a treat for Holland!!!

    That was my point.


  • #1827
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    Arsemageddon wrote: »
    England's performance weren't caused by nerves or a lack of ability, it was caused by a total lack of hunger to go out and win.
    I disagree. If anything the players may have been too fired up. I think on the ITV coverage Lee Dixon mentioned that Ian Wright remarked during the anthems that Joe Hart might need to calm down.

    Hunger and passion are tired clichéd arguments. Reality is they came up against a well-drilled, organised outfit that played to their strengths and were difficult to break down in a one-off match. Much like ourselves at times in Euro 88, WC90, 94 and 02. Every upset isn't simply because the favourites weren't "hungry" enough.


  • #1828
    Realt Dearg Sec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,586 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    LorMal wrote: »
    That was my point.

    I know yeah


  • #1829
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    I disagree. If anything the players may have been too fired up. I think on the ITV coverage Lee Dixon mentioned that Ian Wright remarked during the anthems that Joe Hart might need to calm down.

    Hunger and passion are tired clichéd arguments. Reality is they came up against a well-drilled, organised outfit that played to their strengths and were difficult to break down in a one-off match. Much like ourselves at times in Euro 88, WC90, 94 and 02. Every upset isn't simply because the favourites weren't "hungry" enough.

    Absolutely. The idea that you have to work yourself into a fever pitch is also a cliche. Calm, professional , intelligent, organised teams win most matches. The Germans are masters at it.


  • #1830
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »
    I know yeah

    Sorry, misread you.


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  • #1831
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    I disagree. If anything the players may have been too fired up. I think on the ITV coverage Lee Dixon mentioned that Ian Wright remarked during the anthems that Joe Hart might need to calm down.

    Hunger and passion are tired clichéd arguments. Reality is they came up against a well-drilled, organised outfit that played to their strengths and were difficult to break down in a one-off match. Much like ourselves at times in Euro 88, WC90, 94 and 02. Every upset isn't simply because the favourites weren't "hungry" enough.

    There problem is more than just the game against Iceland, they have been appallingly poor at major tournaments for a long time. At this tournament they were also very poor against both Russia and Slovakia.

    On paper they always have a reasonably good selection of players to choose from, they have had managers who have previously proved themselves competent at both club and international level and yet for the last 20 years they have been poor at every major tournament. If other countries can have teams that can add up to more than the sum of their parts then why can't England?


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