Is marriage worth it ?

silverharp · 24-06-2016 10:53AM

as an institution it probably needs to be reformed , maybe let couples draw up their own contracts. At the end of the day unless you are exceedingly well off its better for 2 parents to raise kids and you need a convention that assumes both people will stick around.

FortySeven · 24-06-2016 10:55AM

ChampagnePop wrote: »

Yes because only women want weddings - what a ridiculous statement to make.

You need to take more responsibility for the choices you made when choosing a partner to have children with and stop your endless sexist rants on every thread you can find. It's getting more than old at this stage

No, I don't have to do that but thanks for the attempt at crushing my right to an opinion.

Please point out 1 sexist thing I have said? I don't like to be labelled something I am not.

I don't know any man who wants a wedding. Most are just pressured by partner, church or family. A woman gets a ring and Some semblance of security. Please list what a man gets from this legal contract? I only see liabilities.

You can dislike my view but please don't make this about sexism. It is not, I say it as I see it.

24-06-2016 10:56AM

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

What do you think folks. I myself can never see myself ever getting married.
Are you married ? if so how's it going ? and for those who are single or going out without someone can you ever see yourself tying the knot ?

Anything is worth it if you get from it what you wanted from it when you went in.

Having said that however due to my relationship type marriage is not _really_ an option for us - and would actually make things weird or complicated and skewed if we did try it - but I do not feel like we are missing out.

Anything we do or did want from marriage we have organised in different ways. Contracts - wills - arrangements and so forth to cover next of kin, inheritance, guardianship of children and all the other important stuff.

I suppose it is good to get all that as part of the straight forward "package deal" like everyone else. But I do not lament having to take the harder road to it either.

Walter H Price · 24-06-2016 10:59AM

i think its still an important institution , leaving aside the religious mumbo jumbo its a commitment that provides a stable base to start a family.

we're engaged since last November and getting married in November 17 , my fiance is from a unmarried single parent family so didn't overly see the value in it other than a big party and a nice dress , but for me i wouldn't consider moving on to the next level in our relationship , buying property and having children etc... unless we were married.

Winterlong · 24-06-2016 11:30AM

Marriage means different things to different people.
I am married and I love it. It suits me. I think the wife likes it too.

Pac1Man · 24-06-2016 11:45AM

FortySeven wrote: »

or 5 years if you don't gives your partner a claim on your property.

What!!?! This true? How much of a claim?

bmwguy · 24-06-2016 11:49AM

I thought it was until my wife left me and ran off with my best friend and drinking buddy. I miss him so much.

One eyed Jack · 24-06-2016 11:53AM

FortySeven wrote: »

No, I don't have to do that but thanks for the attempt at crushing my right to an opinion.

Please point out 1 sexist thing I have said? I don't like to be labelled something I am not.

I don't know any man who wants a wedding. Most are just pressured by partner, church or family. A woman gets a ring and Some semblance of security. Please list what a man gets from this legal contract? I only see liabilities.

You can dislike my view but please don't make this about sexism. It is not, I say it as I see it.

We're talking about marriage here, not weddings, and not divorce.

As for your "please list what a man gets from this legal contract?", he gets as much from a marriage as he puts into the marriage - like anything else in life, you get out of it what you put in! You might only see liabilities, but there are plenty of men including myself, who have gotten married, who are still married, and who see themselves being married to the same person for the forseeable future. They see plenty of benefits in their marriage, as do I, because I didn't enter into marriage with my wife thinking what could I get out of it. I was thinking about what I could give, and tbh I've gotten back ten times as much as I've given.

If anyone is entering into a marriage for what they can get out of it, they're likely to end up bitterly disappointed with their lot.

VisibleGorilla · 24-06-2016 11:57AM

So why enter into a legal contract where you get nothing out of it but stand to lose so much?

ChampagnePop · 24-06-2016 11:58AM

FortySeven wrote: »

No, I don't have to do that but thanks for the attempt at crushing my right to an opinion.

Please point out 1 sexist thing I have said? I don't like to be labelled something I am not.

I don't know any man who wants a wedding. Most are just pressured by partner, church or family. A woman gets a ring and Some semblance of security. Please list what a man gets from this legal contract? I only see liabilities.

You can dislike my view but please don't make this about sexism. It is not, I say it as I see it.

Lol - no hint of sexism in that post at all!!!

One eyed Jack · 24-06-2016 12:05PM

VisibleGorilla wrote: »

So why enter into a legal contract where you get nothing out of it but stand to lose so much?

I can't answer for anyone else, but I get plenty out of my marriage, and I didn't stand to lose out on anything? Divorce is an entirely separate issue from why someone would choose to get married in the first place.

I don't know of anyone who has gotten married with the intent to divorce at some point in the future. In the same way as it's beneficial for both parties to be married for numerous reasons, both parties lose out, for numerous reasons, if they become divorced from each other.

eviltwin · 24-06-2016 12:14PM

I'm with my husband 21 years, married 8 of those. I love that guy to bits, I still get excited when he comes in the door at night. We aren't a lovely dovey couple but he's my best friend in the world and I can't imagine not being with him. I can't say that being married has brought anything to our relationship that wasn't already there but it hasn't taken anything from it either. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks marriage is for mugs, you meet the right person and its the best thing in the world.

FortySeven · 24-06-2016 12:22PM

ChampagnePop wrote: »

Yes because only women want weddings - what a ridiculous statement to make.

You need to take more responsibility for the choices you made when choosing a partner to have children with and stop your endless sexist rants on every thread you can find. It's getting more than old at this stage

I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot and a woman was in the ladies lounge giving out about having her children abducted, being robbed and left with a mountain of debt and facing false allegations in court whilst being denied access to their kids by their ex partner, Would your advice be to take more responsibility for her choices she made 12 years ago?

Might seem a bit harsh, no?

These things happen but it seems if they happen to a man then it is our fault, (choices you know!) if it happens to a woman then it is also our fault.

I get called the sexist?

Look. I'm glad I wasn't married, I think marriage is a relic of the days that women rightfully required some protection due to being unable to work or support themselves. Nowadays it is a parody and anyone signing a lifelong contract would be wise to consider the ramifications of a break up. You'd be mad not to. Divorce is fairly commonplace these days.

I've always been against marriage, it is not something new since my relationship failed. I have always said if I love someone I will stand beside them and I don't require a piece of paper to prove it. Thankfully, my court shennanigans is almost over. If I was married I would still have years to go.

I don't want to derail this thread so I won't be posting in it about sexism again but I feel the need to rebuttal.

Pointing out marriage is a one sided contract. Not sexist.
Pointing out women only safe spaces are ridiculous ideas without merit. Not sexist.
Pointing out that fathers rights suck in this country. Not sexist.
Pointing out that feminism needs to calm down with the man hating. Not sexist.
Pointing out that feminists rebranding feminism due to a bad image is still feminism. Not sexist.

Please do not label me a sexist. I can barely summon hatred for the one woman I should feel it for. Trying to hate all women sounds tiring and pointless.

eviltwin · 24-06-2016 12:24PM

FortySeven wrote: »

I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot and a woman was in the ladies lounge giving out about having her children abducted, being robbed and left with a mountain of debt and facing false allegations in court whilst being denied access to their kids by their ex partner, Would your advice be to take more responsibility for her choices she made 12 years ago?

Might seem a bit harsh, no?

These things happen but it seems if they happen to a man then it is our fault, (choices you know!) if it happens to a woman then it is also our fault.

I get called the sexist?

Look. I'm glad I wasn't married, I think marriage is a relic of the days that women rightfully required some protection due to being unable to work or support themselves. Nowadays it is a parody and anyone signing a lifelong contract would be wise to consider the ramifications of a break up. You'd be mad not to. Divorce is fairly commonplace these days.

I've always been against marriage, it is not something new since my relationship failed. I have always said if I love someone I will stand beside them and I don't require a piece of paper to prove it. Thankfully, my court shennanigans is almost over. If I was married I would still have years to go.

I don't want to derail this thread so I won't be posting in it again but I feel the need to rebuttal.

Pointing out marriage is a one sided contract. Not sexist.
Pointing out women only safe spaces are ridiculous ideas without merit. Not sexist.
Pointing out that fathers rights suck in this country. Not sexist.
Pointing out that feminism needs to calm down with the man hating. Not sexist.
Pointing out that feminists rebranding feminism due to a bad image is still feminism. Not sexist.

Please do not label me a sexist. I can barely summon hatred for the one woman I should feel it for. Trying to hate all women sounds tiring and pointless.

I feel sorry for you that you view all marriages through the filter of your own experience.

ChampagnePop · 24-06-2016 12:38PM

FortySeven wrote: »

I wonder if the shoe was on the other foot and a woman was in the ladies lounge giving out about having her children abducted, being robbed and left with a mountain of debt and facing false allegations in court whilst being denied access to their kids by their ex partner, Would your advice be to take more responsibility for her choices she made 12 years ago?

Might seem a bit harsh, no?

These things happen but it seems if they happen to a man then it is our fault, (choices you know!) if it happens to a woman then it is also our fault.

I get called the sexist?

Look. I'm glad I wasn't married, I think marriage is a relic of the days that women rightfully required some protection due to being unable to work or support themselves. Nowadays it is a parody and anyone signing a lifelong contract would be wise to consider the ramifications of a break up. You'd be mad not to. Divorce is fairly commonplace these days.

I've always been against marriage, it is not something new since my relationship failed. I have always said if I love someone I will stand beside them and I don't require a piece of paper to prove it. Thankfully, my court shennanigans is almost over. If I was married I would still have years to go.

I don't want to derail this thread so I won't be posting in it again but I feel the need to rebuttal.

Pointing out marriage is a one sided contract. Not sexist.
Pointing out women only safe spaces are ridiculous ideas without merit. Not sexist.
Pointing out that fathers rights suck in this country. Not sexist.
Pointing out that feminism needs to calm down with the man hating. Not sexist.
Pointing out that feminists rebranding feminism due to a bad image is still feminism. Not sexist.

Please do not label me a sexist. I can barely summon hatred for the one woman I should feel it for. Trying to hate all women sounds tiring and pointless.

Marraige is not a one sided contract- that is incorrect and sexist.

Why are you bringing feminism into this?

It's a pity you can't see past gender and see people.

Also- same sex marraige is legal now - who is the winner in that marraige? Two men - they're both ruined, two females- mutally beneficial?

FortySeven · 24-06-2016 12:40PM

eviltwin wrote: »

I feel sorry for you that you view all marriages through the filter of your own experience.

I don't view all marraiges that way but if I concede there are happy marriages will you concede there are also plenty disasterous ones?

My grandparents will be 71 years married in September. Very successful marriage but it is the luck of the draw and a thread asking what you think of marriage would be a bit one sided if we all sat around singing cumbaya and pretending it's all skittles and unicorns.

It is a risk and essentially a gamble. It is not for everyone.

eviltwin · 24-06-2016 12:47PM

FortySeven wrote: »

I don't view all marraiges that way but if I concede there are happy marriages will you concede there are also plenty disasterous ones?

My grandparents will be 71 years married in September. Very successful marriage but it is the luck of the draw and a thread asking what you think of marriage would be a bit one sided if we all sat around singing cumbaya and pretending it's all skittles and unicorns.

It is a risk and essentially a gamble. It is not for everyone.

Of course there are bad marriages but reading your posts you come across as if you think everyone getting married - every man at least - is a mug. Relationships are a risk. You cannot anticipate what life will throw at you but the end of a bad one is going to have an impact whether you married or not. The only other option is to never get involved with anyone at all "just in case" but what a sad, miserable existence that would be.

FortySeven · 24-06-2016 12:51PM

ChampagnePop wrote: »

Marraige is not a one sided contract- that is incorrect and sexist.

Why are you bringing feminism into this?

It's a pity you can't see past gender and see people.

Also- same sex marraige is legal now - who is the winner in that marraige? Two men - they're both ruined, two females- mutally beneficial?

You said I was all over boards being sexist. I pointed out that I have been all over boards questioning feminism, not being sexist. End of.

It will be interesting to see where judges rule in same sex breakups. It's too early to see yet. In a marriage between a man and a woman rights are firmly on the woman's side in court. Perhaps this will change the situation in the future. Equality is great.

Shint0 · 24-06-2016 12:53PM

ChampagnePop wrote: »

You need to take more responsibility for the choices you made when choosing a partner to have children

Just to pick up on this point to try to give some balance.

The majority of people enter into relationships/marriage with the best of intentions and the best will in the world. People can and do change over the course of a life time. Sometimes feelings can change, for either one or both of the couple, or there can be outside factors such as life stressors which can change the entire dynamic of a relationship.

Sometimes one person might end up making more sacrifices and compromises than the other, and the harsh reality is that sometimes the one who makes the most sacrifices can end up getting shafted in the end. Not in all cases but to say it doesn't happen is unrealistic.

Not all marriages/long-term relationships go the distance where everybody gets to ride off (no pun intended) into the sunset and it's not because they didn't choose the right partner from the outset.

I just feel this point needs to be said.

FortySeven · 24-06-2016 01:00PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Of course there are bad marriages but reading your posts you come across as if you think everyone getting married - every man at least - is a mug. Relationships are a risk. You cannot anticipate what life will throw at you but the end of a bad one is going to have an impact whether you married or not. The only other option is to never get involved with anyone at all "just in case" but what a sad, miserable existence that would be.

Maybe I need to take my pills. That is not what I am trying to convey at all.

I'm all for getting involved. I'm all for happy families. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't always work out that way and men largely get the smelly end of the stick in that situation.

eviltwin · 24-06-2016 01:03PM

FortySeven wrote: »

Maybe I need to take my pills. That is not what I am trying to convey at all.

I'm all for getting involved. I'm all for happy families. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't always work out that way and men largely get the smelly end of the stick in that situation.

Yeah I agree its men who tend to come out the worst of any breakdown but that would happen married or not. If anything, marriage gives them a bit more than they might have had if they were single. But you can't predict the future, you just have to make the best decisions you can and work hard at it. Overall I would say that most people I know in long term relationships are in good places, there are a few who are having a tough time but marriage isn't the problem.

Your Face · 24-06-2016 01:07PM

Worth what?
The nagging?
The bit at the start?
The unreasonable arguments?
The occasionally ride?

Theres a reason prostitution is the oldest game in the world.
Never get tied down.

ChampagnePop · 24-06-2016 01:23PM

FortySeven wrote: »

Maybe I need to take my pills. That is not what I am trying to convey at all.

I'm all for getting involved. I'm all for happy families. I'm just pointing out that it doesn't always work out that way and men largely get the smelly end of the stick in that situation.

Were you married?

Electric Sheep · 24-06-2016 01:24PM

FortySeven wrote: »

I don't view all marraiges that way but if I concede there are happy marriages will you concede there are also plenty disasterous ones?

My grandparents will be 71 years married in September. Very successful marriage but it is the luck of the draw and a thread asking what you think of marriage would be a bit one sided if we all sat around singing cumbaya and pretending it's all skittles and unicorns.

It is a risk and essentially a gamble. It is not for everyone.

I don't think marriage is the luck of the draw. Much has to do with attitude and how much effort is put into it by both partners. Selfishness will kill love eventually, give and take and consideration will help to keep it alive.

Certainly there are marriages that should never have happened. Maybe looking past the excitement of the wedding to the actual marriage would help to make better decisions.

I wonder if all weddings were brought down to just a civil ceremony or religious ceremony, with no big party and being King and Queen for a day, would marriage itself be taken more seriously.

s4uv3 · 24-06-2016 01:38PM

I got married in February thinking nothing would be all that different after. I was wrong, its a lot better.
I have a weird security deep in my soul that I have someone who's so on my side that he was willing to sign a contract to that effect. In it's purest form, marriage is the greatest ongoing compliment.
I haven't the foggiest idea why he thinks I'm so deadly tbh

edit : we had a tiny civil ceremony with 12 people and all went for dinner after. Job done.
I don't think I could have gone through with a 250 person hotel reception. But of course, each to their own

FortySeven · 24-06-2016 01:40PM

ChampagnePop wrote: »

Were you married?

Thankfully no. I never believed in marriage. 12 year relationship. It was one of those happy ones that everyone looks at and thinks is great. Right up until it wasn't.

Like I say, a gamble.

24-06-2016 01:50PM

I think it's fair to say that quite a number of people walk in to marriage for the wrong reasons. Perhaps they have an romanticised notion of it, the one special day is what matters, maybe they feel things will be better if they make the leap. "If we marry then he/she will change their minds about wanting/not wanting children", "if we marry then he/she will want more/less sex", "if we marry then he/she won't leave me". Or the almost existential need to not be alone. Pick me. Choose me. Make me whole.

If I get married it will be because I have met a man who I love completely. I will want to have sex with him, I will want to talk to him. We will be two individuals standing side by side and sharing a life. So far I have avoided the reasons in my first paragraph. Lots and lots of people do. Lots of people also fall out of love and any semblance of feeling is swept away in resentment and regret.

FortySeven I know you've been through the mill. I'll take a guess and say that your experiences have made you angry, I would be too. Read back over some of your posts. Being in a serious and committed relationship isn't easy, regardless of whether the couple are married or not. Believing that marriage is a road to heartache and the man is screwed if things go belly up, means that you believe the same for a relationship without marriage. It's still two people who love each other.

As someone wrote earlier, marriage isn't the problem.

ChampagnePop · 24-06-2016 01:53PM

FortySeven wrote: »

Thankfully no. I never believed in marriage. 12 year relationship. It was one of those happy ones that everyone looks at and thinks is great. Right up until it wasn't.

Like I say, a gamble.

Your child custody battle would have been completey different of you'd have been married, you've just proven the importance of marraige for fathers.

Did your partner want marraige? Is that why it ended up so bitterly?

mewe · 24-06-2016 01:58PM

Duggy747 wrote:

It would feckin' want to be, I'm getting married in 2 weeks

Me too! Two weeks tomorrow. Best of luck.

FortySeven · 24-06-2016 02:22PM

ChampagnePop wrote: »

Your child custody battle would have been completey different of you'd have been married, you've just proven the importance of marraige for fathers.

Did your partner want marraige? Is that why it ended up so bitterly?

She did not want marriage either. It ended so bitterly because I finally called her bluff on her controlling behavior. She immediately played all her cards.

The only difference in the custody battle would have been automatic shared custody. I would still have to battle to get access. It is six of one and half a dozen of the other.

She is still seen as the better parent for the children due to nothing more than gender and contrary to evidence presented but that is a sexism problem, not one of marriage.

If married the family home regulation would kick in and she could turf me into the street and lock me into a mortgage for a house I couldn't live in for the next 13 years. Unmarried, this cannot happen so easily. (But can still happen)

Most of all though, I am free. I have won in court and it has been less than a year. If married we would not yet have started and freedom would be over 4 years away.

I would also be down a large sum for a diamond engagement ring and possibly paying off wedding debt. Still, I'd have a better kettle and toaster I'm sure.

Is marriage worth it ?

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