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The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

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  • #5012
    hinault
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Where does it show that in the bible?

    In the chronology of creation account in Genesis commencing at Chapter 1 verse 3.
    That's where.


  • #5013
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,066 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    hinault wrote: »
    In the chronology of creation account in Genesis commencing at Chapter 1 verse 3.
    That's where.

    The Earth and the water on the planet existed before light?

    You realise that contradicts current scientific understanding, i.e. the sun existed before the Earth.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #5014
    hinault
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Delirium wrote: »
    The Earth and the water on the planet existed before light?

    You realise that contradicts current scientific understanding, i.e. the sun existed before the Earth.

    As stated earlier the chronology of the account of creation given in Genesis is clear in relation to one scientific truth.

    Energy was created first (Chapter 1 verse 3) according to Genesis
    All other matter was created in subsequent verses in Chapter 1.

    The writer of Genesis somehow knew that for matter to exist, energy had to first exist (verse 3).

    The writer knew this scientific truth literally centuries before science was even conceived.


  • #5015
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,066 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    hinault wrote: »
    As stated earlier the chronology of the account of creation given in Genesis is clear in relation to one scientific truth.

    Energy was created first (Chapter 1 verse 3) according to Genesis
    All other matter was created in subsequent verses in Chapter 1.

    The writer of Genesis somehow knew that for matter to exist, energy had to first exist (verse 3).

    The writer knew this scientific truth literally centuries before science was even conceived.

    Verses 1-10 quoted....
    1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

    3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

    6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

    9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

    The Earth (i.e. matter) existed before light ( which I presume is energy as it's the only thing mentioned in verse 3).

    So in the sequence as mentioned in the quoted text, Genesis does not state energy existed before matter (with reference to verse 3).

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #5016
    hinault
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Delirium wrote: »
    Verses 1-10 quoted....

    So in the sequence as mentioned in the quoted text, Genesis does not state energy existed before matter (with reference to verse 3).

    Incorrect.

    Chapter 1 verses 1-11 are clear
    1:1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

    1:2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

    1:3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made.

    1:4 And God saw the light that it was good; and he divided the light from the darkness.

    1:5 And he called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day.

    1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.

    1:7 And god made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.

    1:8 And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.

    1:9 God also said; Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered together into one place: and let the dry land appear. And it was so done.

    1:10 And God called the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

    1:11 And he said: let the earth bring forth green herb, and such as may seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in itself upon the earth. And it was so done.

    verse 1-2 : God created Heaven and Earth, but Earth was void and empty according to Genesis. What does void mean? We know what empty means, empty is the absence of matter. But what does void mean?

    verse 3 : God created energy. We now know that no matter can exist without energy. For matter to exist, energy must first exist.

    Verses 10 and 11 show God completing the infrastructure which we call planet Earth. The creation of the sea and land are accounted for in verse 10 and 11.

    But interestingly what is accounted for in verse 10 and 11, appears to affirm what verse 2 is alluding to, namely that there was nothing to Earth at that point. Earth was void and empty. What does verse 2 actually mean?

    Was Earth just a concept or a thought at the point of verse 2? And that verse 3 was the material inception of that concept/thought in verse 2?


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  • #5017
    robdonn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    hinault wrote: »
    Incorrect.

    Chapter 1 verses 1-11 are clear



    verse 1-2 : God created Heaven and Earth, but Earth was void and empty according to Genesis. What does void mean? We know what empty means, empty is the absence of matter. But what does void mean?

    verse 3 : God created energy. We now know that no matter can exist without energy. For matter to exist, energy must first exist.

    Verses 10 and 11 show God completing the infrastructure which we call planet Earth. The creation of the sea and land are accounted for in verse 10 and 11.

    But interestingly what is accounted for in verse 10 and 11, appears to affirm what verse 2 is alluding to, namely that there was nothing to Earth at that point. Earth was void and empty. What does verse 2 actually mean?

    Was Earth just a concept or a thought at the point of verse 2? And that verse 3 was the material inception of that concept/thought in verse 2?

    So God simply bought the Earth domain name, but didn't build the site yet?

    You'll have to explain again when the physical land was made though because verse 9 only says He moved the water around a bit to "let the dry land appear", which would indicate it was already there.

    Oh and the water, wasn't that already there in verse 2? "and the spirit of God moved over the waters." How was that matter there if He didn't create energy until verse 3?

    Anyone who isn't blocked by Hinault can feel free to let him know...


  • #5018
    glued
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭glued


    hinault wrote: »
    Incorrect.

    Chapter 1 verses 1-11 are clear



    verse 1-2 : God created Heaven and Earth, but Earth was void and empty according to Genesis. What does void mean? We know what empty means, empty is the absence of matter. But what does void mean?

    verse 3 : God created energy. We now know that no matter can exist without energy. For matter to exist, energy must first exist.

    Verses 10 and 11 show God completing the infrastructure which we call planet Earth. The creation of the sea and land are accounted for in verse 10 and 11.

    But interestingly what is accounted for in verse 10 and 11, appears to affirm what verse 2 is alluding to, namely that there was nothing to Earth at that point. Earth was void and empty. What does verse 2 actually mean?

    Was Earth just a concept or a thought at the point of verse 2? And that verse 3 was the material inception of that concept/thought in verse 2?

    It still doesn't make any sense. The book clearly states that Earth was created before light. This doesn't make any sense as we know the Sun was formed before the Earth.

    They're playing a guessing game on how the earth was formed. Various parts of the bible point towards four corners of the earth, the earth being unmovable and various other stark contrasts with modern science.


  • #5019
    hinault
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    glued wrote: »
    It still doesn't make any sense. The book clearly states that Earth was created before light. This doesn't make any sense as we know the Sun was formed before the Earth.

    The Sun and the Earth are approximately the same age according to cosmologists.

    And there is evidence to suggest that water here on Earth is older than the Sun too apparently.

    glued wrote: »
    They're playing a guessing game on how the earth was formed. Various parts of the bible point towards four corners of the earth, the earth being unmovable and various other stark contrasts with modern science.

    I'm not convinced that this is the case.
    Genesis seems to be hinting to a chronology of events which science, in respect of the creation of matter at least, confirms.

    Science says that energy must exist first so that matter can exist.
    The account in Genesis states that energy existed before matter took form (verse 3).

    Verse 2 of Genesis doesn't hint that Earth had matter or form.
    Verse 10 and verse 11 of Genesis shows the chronology for when Earth took form.


  • #5020
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 52,066 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    hinault wrote: »
    Incorrect.

    Chapter 1 verses 1-11 are clear



    verse 1-2 : God created Heaven and Earth, but Earth was void and empty according to Genesis. What does void mean? We know what empty means, empty is the absence of matter. But what does void mean?

    verse 3 : God created energy. We now know that no matter can exist without energy. For matter to exist, energy must first exist.

    Verses 10 and 11 show God completing the infrastructure which we call planet Earth. The creation of the sea and land are accounted for in verse 10 and 11.

    But interestingly what is accounted for in verse 10 and 11, appears to affirm what verse 2 is alluding to, namely that there was nothing to Earth at that point. Earth was void and empty. What does verse 2 actually mean?

    Was Earth just a concept or a thought at the point of verse 2? And that verse 3 was the material inception of that concept/thought in verse 2?

    If God created the heavens and the earth (but not matter), then how was it earth considering earth is comprised of matter?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #5021
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,100 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Hold on, you are taking the line that the Earth was a void and empty and then God created light so show that the writer(s) knew of the necessity of energy to create matter?

    Really. Are you sure you are not merely using the fact that we now know that energy is required to fit in with that particular line?

    Of course, by using that line, you are also, I am sure, aware that Verse 14 states 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. But we now know that only one great light (sun) exists and the Moon is only a reflection. So the writers go from being a years ahead of science to suddenly having little idea, almost of if they just said what they saw.


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  • #5022
    hinault
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Delirium wrote: »
    If God created the heavens and the earth (but not matter), then how was it earth considering earth is comprised of matter?

    Exactly the point I made earlier.

    Verses 1-2 state clearly that Earth was created but that it was void and empty.
    What was in fact created in verses 1-2?

    Verses 10-11 appear to state that what we know now as Earth was created at verse 10-11, and not at verse 2.

    So what was created at verse 2?

    I'm suggesting that what was at verse 2 was the creation of the idea that Earth be created.

    I'm further suggesting that verse 3 - the creation of energy - had to happen first before the creation of what we know as Earth in verses 10-11.


  • #5023
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    robdonn wrote: »
    So God simply bought the Earth domain name, but didn't build the site yet?

    You'll have to explain again when the physical land was made though because verse 9 only says He moved the water around a bit to "let the dry land appear", which would indicate it was already there.

    Oh and the water, wasn't that already there in verse 2? "and the spirit of God moved over the waters." How was that matter there if He didn't create energy until verse 3?

    Anyone who isn't blocked by Hinault can feel free to let him know...

    Quoted for reference re Hinault


  • #5024
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Quoted for reference re Hinault
    Look at you, fancy pants, showing off your "un-ignored by hinault" status.

    MrP


  • #5025
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Look at you, fancy pants, showing off your "un-ignored by hinault" status.

    MrP

    I have hit the crossbar a few times though :pac:


  • #5026
    robdonn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I have hit the crossbar a few times though :pac:

    You'll probably get blocked by association.


  • #5027
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    robdonn wrote: »
    You'll probably get blocked by association.

    We can only pray :pac:


  • #5028
    Safehands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭Safehands


    J C wrote: »
    All you need is another source of light (before the Sun was created) to have day and night ... and 'happy' vegetation.

    JC, surely the Bible would have said something like "God created a temporary light source, which provided heat for plants and enough light for morning and evening, until he got around the creating the real Sun" But it is not mentioned, so he didn't.

    You can do better than that JC. (like saying it's not literally true, it's a nice story though. This section of Genesis actually proves it can't be factual)


  • #5029
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Safehands wrote: »
    JC, surely the Bible would have said something like "God created a temporary light source, which provided heat for plants and enough light for morning and evening, until he got around the creating the real Sun" But it is not mentioned, so he didn't.
    That's pretty much what He said
    Gen1:3-5
    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


    Gen1:14-19
    14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

    15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

    16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

    17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

    18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

    19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


  • #5030
    Harika
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,594 ✭✭✭Harika


    J C wrote: »
    That's pretty much what He said
    Gen1:3-5
    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    You always forget to include the first two ones, there is the trouble hidden. :pac:


  • #5031
    Safehands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭Safehands


    J C wrote: »
    That's pretty much what He said
    Gen1:3-5
    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    See here you are JC, day and night happens, not because of the stars in the sky but because of the sun and the way the Earth goes round it. Morning and evening are the result of the suns position too. Flowers and plants need the sun as well. So it is not possible to have all these things BEFORE the sun came into existance. I know its hard for you to grasp this reality, but the account in the Bible is patently wrong, made up by ignorent people who had no understanding of physics. You can try to twist it whatever way you like, with maybes and perhaps, but at the end of the day the conclusion is the same, not possible, therefore made up.


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  • #5032
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Harika wrote: »
    You always forget to include the first two ones, there is the trouble hidden. :pac:
    Let me correct that now ... so where is the trouble hidden?

    Genesis 1King James Version (KJV)

    1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


  • #5033
    J C
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Safehands wrote: »
    See here you are JC, day and night happens, not because of the stars in the sky but because of the sun and the way the Earth goes round it. Morning and evening are the result of the suns position too.
    That is how it works since the creation of the Sun on the fourth day of Creation ... not how it was on the first three days (when the light source was probably some kind of cosmic luminescence that was a pre-cursor to the Sun and stars on day four).

    Safehands wrote: »
    Flowers and plants need the sun as well. So it is not possible to have all these things BEFORE the sun came into existance.
    Flowers and plants need a source of light and heat ... and, in any event, the sun provided this within 24 hours of their creation.
    Safehands wrote: »
    I know its hard for you to grasp this reality, but the account in the Bible is patently wrong, made up by ignorent people who had no understanding of physics. You can try to twist it whatever way you like, with maybes and perhaps, but at the end of the day the conclusion is the same, not possible, therefore made up.
    There is nothing 'patent' about it ... and it makes a lot more sense that an omnipotent entity that exists outside time and space could create time and space ... than the materialist alternative theory that effectively nothing blew up to produced the almost infintity of matter and energy that we see in the observable Universe.


  • #5034
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    J C wrote: »
    Let me correct that now ... so where is the trouble hidden?

    Genesis 1King James Version (KJV)

    1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    Because you keep.claiming there cannot be matter without light/energy yet it CLEARLY states that there is water, water is matter.

    Now I know you will come back with some convoluted explanation about how "god" created the "idea" of earth and then magically/spiritually floated over the water and liked what he seen so then "actually" made the earth and that's fine, that's your interpretation of what you reado but the FACT remains the bible states that earth was created and it had water (nowhere does it state it was an idea) and therefore unless you can show proof that "God" created a temporary source of light before the sun then we have to go with what is written in the Bible and we know that what is written is wrong.


  • #5035
    hinault
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    J C wrote: »
    Let me correct that now ... so where is the trouble hidden?

    Genesis 1King James Version (KJV)

    1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

    5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    As a suggestion, verses 10-11 needs to be considered, because they tell how the infrastructure of Earth, it's land and sea, were created.

    Verse 2, I submit is not the creation of Earth as we know it.
    1:1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

    1:2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

    1:3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made.

    1:4 And God saw the light that it was good; and he divided the light from the darkness.

    1:5 And he called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day.

    1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.

    1:7 And god made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.

    1:8 And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.

    1:9 God also said; Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered together into one place: and let the dry land appear. And it was so done.

    1:10 And God called the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

    1:11 And he said: let the earth bring forth green herb, and such as may seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in itself upon the earth. And it was so done    .


  • #5036
    robdonn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    J C wrote: »
    There is nothing 'patent' about it ... and it makes a lot more sense that an omnipotent entity that exists outside time and space could create time and space ... than the materialist alternative theory that effectively nothing blew up to produced the almost infintity of matter and energy that we see in the observable Universe.

    It only makes more sense when you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the "materialistic alternative theory", which you apparently have.


  • #5037
    robdonn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    hinault wrote: »
    As a suggestion, verses 10-11 needs to be considered, because they tell how the infrastructure of Earth, it's land and sea, were created.

    Verse 2, I submit is not the creation of Earth as we know it.

    J C, I would also (as a suggestion) take note that hinault believes that verse 3 describes energy being created before matter despite verse 2 clearly talking about water which, as we all know, is a form of matter.

    I've attempted to point this out to hinault but he/she likes to act like he/she can't see my posts. (They totally can, shhh..... :P )


  • #5038
    robdonn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭robdonn


    Interesting video released today about the history of humans. Worth a watch.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGiQaabX3_o


  • #5039
    Safehands
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭Safehands


    J C wrote: »
    That is how it works since the creation of the Sun on the fourth day of Creation ... not how it was on the first three days (when the light source was probably some kind of cosmic luminescence that was a pre-cursor to the Sun and stars on day four).

    Flowers and plants need a source of light and heat ... and, in any event, the sun provided this within 24 hours of their creation.
    do you really actually believe this stuff?? Nah, I think you are far too bright for that, or maybe you are just winding me up.
    The temperature of Earth, without the sun's presence, would be lower than minus 200 deg C. To suggest that a plant could grow, even for a couple of hours, at those temperatures is preposterous.
    You agreed earlier that if even a single part is shown to be untrue then it undermines the whole thing. But if you keep coming up with ludicrous suggestions every time anyone points out howling inaccuracies, then the whole thing could never be undermined in your strange mind. Most rational people know that the story is fiction.
    Just accept JC, that the whole thing is not as believable as little red riding hood. You can twist it and turn it whatever way you like but facts are facts and fairy tales are fairy tales. It's a lovely story, but cannot be true.


  • #5040
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,893 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Safehands wrote: »
    do you really actually believe this stuff?? Nah, I think you are far too bright for that, or maybe you are just winding me up.
    The temperature of Earth, without the sun's presence, would be lower than minus 200 deg C. To suggest that a plant could grow, even for a couple of hours, at those temperatures is preposterous.
    You agreed earlier that if even a single part is shown to be untrue then it undermines the whole thing. But if you keep coming up with ludicrous suggestions every time anyone points out howling inaccuracies, then the whole thing could never be undermined in your strange mind. Most rational people know that the story is fiction.
    Just accept JC, that the whole thing is not as believable as little red riding hood. You can twist it and turn it whatever way you like but facts are facts and fairy tales are fairy tales. It's a lovely story, but cannot be true.

    Awaits the usual "God did it" response that we are supposed to swalow as an explanationfor everything.


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  • #5041
    hinault
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Safehands wrote: »
    do you really actually believe this stuff?? Nah, I think you are far too bright for that, or maybe you are just winding me up.
    The temperature of Earth, without the sun's presence, would be lower than minus 200 deg C. To suggest that a plant could grow, even for a couple of hours, at those temperatures is preposterous.
    You agreed earlier that if even a single part is shown to be untrue then it undermines the whole thing. But if you keep coming up with ludicrous suggestions every time anyone points out howling inaccuracies, then the whole thing could never be undermined in your strange mind. Most rational people know that the story is fiction.
    Just accept JC, that the whole thing is not as believable as little red riding hood. You can twist it and turn it whatever way you like but facts are facts and fairy tales are fairy tales. It's a lovely story, but cannot be true.

    Let's examine what Chapter 1 Genesis actually says :
    1:1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

    1:2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

    1:3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made.

    1:4 And God saw the light that it was good; and he divided the light from the darkness.

    1:5 And he called the light Day, and the darkness Night; and there was evening and morning one day.

    1:6 And God said: Let there be a firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.

    1:7 And god made a firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.

    1:8 And God called the firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.

    1:9 God also said; Let the waters that are under the heaven, be gathered together into one place: and let the dry land appear. And it was so done.

    1:10 And God called the dry land, Earth; and the gathering together of the waters, he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

    1:11 And he said: let the earth bring forth green herb, and such as may seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, which may have seed in itself upon the earth. And it was so done.

    Verse 1 states that God created Heaven and Earth.
    Is verse 1 statement a preamble to actions referred to in latter verses?

    I ask this because every subsequent verse in Genesis states "And God said.."
    to denote the creation of something.
    Verse 1 and verse 2 doesn't contain any reference to say "And God said..."
    Therefore is it reasonable to assume verses 1 and 2 a preamble?

    Let's look at verse 2 says
    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    Earth was void and without form. What does this mean? Earth was formed according to verse 1 but verse 2 says that Earth was void and without form.
    Is this Earth that we recognise? No.
    So what type of Earth is it that has no void and no form?

    The Earth we recognise only takes shape starting at verse 10.

    But going back to verse 2, the verse states
    ......darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters

    What does the face of the deep mean? What does move over the waters mean?
    Note the use of the word face. Face is an exterior image of something or someone.
    Note too the phrase moved over the waters.
    If you read verse 6, verse 7, the word waters is referred to in the creation of the firmament. The firmament is taken to be the solar system, galaxies.

    It's only in verse 10, that the word "waters" is expressed as part of Earth in the form of sea.
    Again verse 10 is the first part of Genesis that describes Earth that we all recognise.

    Verse 3 needs to be read in the context of verse 1 and 2.
    1:1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

    1:2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God moved over the waters.

    1:3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made

    If verses 1 and 2 are a preamble, verse 3 is the moment of physical creation
    initiated by God.

    If verse 1 and 2 are descriptions of physical creation by God at that point, the language used in both verses do not include the phrase "And God said..."
    Neither verse contains the command of creation.

    Separately we know that science tells us that without energy, matter cannot come in to existence.
    God created everything including the laws which science identifies.

    It is reasonable to make the guess that verse 3 is the commencement of the creation of the physical universe that we occupy.


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