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Season 6 Episode 9 "Battle of the Bastards" - "Book readers"

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Comments

  • #242
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    G.Ames wrote: »
    what about Bran? He's Eddards son. So one offspring from the starks is still alive.

    No one has a clue about that


  • #243
    crisco10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,341 ✭✭✭crisco10


    conorhal wrote: »
    She's a bit light on armed forces to defend it though, which I suspect is where Littlefinger will be extracting his price for supporting her, either demanding she marries the mummy's boy or perhaps has to tug his littlefinger...

    Yeah, it is very much a "paper" empire agreed. And they could well feel the squeeze between the North and the Lannisters.

    How strong is House Arryn?


  • #244
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Bambi wrote: »
    Is it just me or was the writing much tighter when they were still tied into the straitjacket of the books that were already published?

    Seems like once they went into the unpublished territory they just went back to standard TV plots.
    I read the first book a couple of years after it came out. I was young, living on my own, I wasn't single, but my responsibilities where basically looking after myself.

    I'm now 40, married (to the same person), have kids, have a mortgage and I'm still waiting on the rest of that bloody story.

    Nothing about GRRM's writing is tight. Its a good story. Its well written. But rambles. Spends books building up characters that he knows he'll kill off without warning. And he's slow. Too slow. The books would have been better had he told his core story. Then written some follow up books. Instead he's writing follow up books first and inventing sub plots apon sub plots on top of the core.

    The TV series cut out the fluff. Its not perfect. But its compelling. And its building towards an end. Its ASOIAF told as a tight story.


  • #245
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,248 ✭✭✭Daith


    G.Ames wrote: »
    what about Bran? He's Eddards son. So one offspring from the starks is still alive.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    No one has a clue about that

    Except Sansa and Sam.


  • #246
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,548 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    G.Ames wrote: »
    what about Bran? He's Eddards son. So one offspring from the starks is still alive.
    He's also paraplegic so rather unlikely to be able to sire an heir even if he does ever make it back south of the Wall...

    I suppose if Arya finds the rest of them and has a child out of wedlock, the child could be legitimised by it's cousin Jon Targaryen?


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  • #247
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,545 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    G.Ames wrote: »
    what about Bran? He's Eddards son. So one offspring from the starks is still alive.

    One that's unable to keep the Stark line going though.


  • #248
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,732 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Well, tbh, we don't know. Sansa has completely squandered her military strength and with Rickon dead, House Stark is no more. She only has as much control as Littlefinger allows her at this point.
    What is Littlefinger going to do realistically though? Attack Winterfell? He can march his army back to the Vale but that might raise some uncomfortable questions from the Vale Knights. He's barely under sufferance with them as it is and Sweetrobin isn't exactly Mister Reliable either. He only got to march them up to Winterfell because Sweetrobin thought it was a jolly good jape to rescue cousin Sansa. He'd be a bit miffed if cousin Sansa was suddenly going to be abandoned surely.

    Despite the losses that the Starks have suffered, there are still houses that didn't get involved in the battle and still have men: Manderly, Glover and probably a few others were not involved. Any survivors of the battle (and there were a lot of Bolton troops and Wildlings that would have surrendered/survived) would be under their control. It's hardly likely that all nine thousand that were involved were killed.

    Also Benjen Stark still lives* and Bran's ability to father children or not isn't clear.

    *For a given value of 'lives'


  • #249
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »
    Going to go against the grain here, whole thing was a bit meh for me. Far too much convenience and set-up just for these big pay-off scenes that make no sense within universe. There's no subtlety or surprise anymore, everything is so horrendously telegraphed you can see it coming a mile away.
    Completely disagree. Its six seasons in, things have to start falling into place. Pay offs need to happen, else nothing will get resolved, or only be resolved in the last episode which would be awful.

    When GOT has surprise moments people say that its only shocking for the sake of shocking. When its more predicable, its not shocking enough. There is a fine line. At some point the story has to merge, bringing the core characters together.

    And its still shocking, episode 1, who saw the necklace scene coming? Everyone expected Dany to be saved, not go all "Daddy" on people. Tommen banning trail by combat. Jon walking out on the nights watch was predicable, but it still felt good.

    With 11 episodes to go, we all have an idea where its going. The WW will come over the wall. KL will fall. More characters will die. But there just isn't time for sub plots and large build ups for shock deaths any more. Everything has to tighten up. The characters storylines have to merge. And that will make the core story, for the most part, more predicable. But the ending will still surprise people. Least IMHO.


  • #250
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,248 ✭✭✭Daith


    There's absolutely no reason that Sansa couldn't have a child and have them keep the Stark name.

    Hell the boy who sits on the Iron Throne has no actual claim either and he's still the King.

    Power resides where men believe it resides and all that.


  • #251
    CMOTDibbler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,732 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Sleepy wrote: »
    He's also paraplegic so rather unlikely to be able to sire an heir even if he does ever make it back south of the Wall...
    Oafley Jones wrote: »
    One that's unable to keep the Stark line going though.
    Paraplegics can have children. I know at least one that has.


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  • #252
    Mr Freeze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,618 ✭✭✭Mr Freeze


    Daith wrote: »
    There's absolutely no reason that Sansa couldn't have a child and have them keep the Stark name.

    Politics is a reason. Like a Manderly or Arryn if they married Sansa would want her to take their name and any children would be Manderlys or Arryns. The Stark name would be gone.

    Any proud house would refuse to marry into the Starks and and then lose their own name.

    Sure she could have a bastard and have it legitimised but people would remember that and they wouldn't think of the Starks as the same, their reputation would be weakened by that.
    CMOTDibbler wrote: »
    Paraplegics can have children. I know at least one that has.

    They definitely can in some cases, its just not really going to happen with Bran. I can't see him marrying a lords daughter or lady of some other house and having legitimate heirs, he is north of the wall and in mortal danger, he has other priorities.


  • #253
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,548 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Daith wrote: »
    There's absolutely no reason that Sansa couldn't have a child and have them keep the Stark name.
    Other than the fact that she's legally a Bolton?


  • #254
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Well, tbh, we don't know. Sansa has completely squandered her military strength and with Rickon dead, House Stark is no more. She only has as much control as Littlefinger allows her at this point.
    House Stark still has three "heirs".

    Bran is unlikely to be able to have kids. Leaving Sansa as the "Queen of the North". With the Boltons gone the rest of the houses will fall in line. If armies from the South come, the North which has always been independent in its own way, will rise up again.

    As for House Stark being gone. No. A simple agreement that Sansa's children keep the Stark name solves that issue. And who would disagree? "Stark" holds a lot of respect. After a couple of years, once things calm down, and people stop being flayed by a madman, the name Stark will be even more valuable.


  • #255
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Other than the fact that she's legally a Bolton?

    Or is she a Lannister?


  • #256
    K_user
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭K_user


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Other than the fact that she's legally a Bolton?
    The Boltons are dead. Gone. Wiped out. To the victors the spoils and the right to names.


  • #257
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,248 ✭✭✭Daith


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Other than the fact that she's legally a Bolton?

    Who's deciding what's legal or not here? Tommen? The son of Cersei and Jamie?

    Sansa declares herself Queen of the North after Robb. She changes the rules so her son is a Stark.

    If anything the show and books has shown that anyone can named heir or a member of a family at the drop of a hat.


  • #258
    rawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    Deleted User wrote:
    No one has a clue about that


    Theon, Sansa, Jon, Sam and possibly Howland Reed know.


  • #259
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,248 ✭✭✭Daith


    I wonder if we could get a parallel to Elizabeth II and have Arryn-Stark to be a new family name?


  • #260
    homerun_homer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭homerun_homer


    OhHiMark wrote: »
    I predicted that someone good would die but they didn't. It's getting so predictable now!

    You predicted something would happen, it didn't and the show is still predictable? Please tell me this comment is laced with sarcasm.


  • #261
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,548 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Under the laws of Westeros, only a king can legitimise a bastard or anull a marriage. Those born out of wedlock aren't allowed to claim their mother's names.

    Sansa can't simply decide that she's a Stark again. She's a Bolton. She has no authority to re-claim her maiden name or give it to any of her children.

    Power lies where people believe it lies but what power has Sansa? She's squandered her brother's army of wildlings and has the fealty of a handful of minor houses. Should the Karstarks decide that they should be Kings in the North, what can she do to stop them?


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  • #262
    eeguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,478 ✭✭✭eeguy


    homerun_homer wrote: »
    You predicted something would happen, it didn't and the show is still predictable? Please tell me this comment is laced with sarcasm.

    I think this comment was aimed at everyone else who said the show was getting predictable.

    Somehow, its bad that storylines and plots are getting resolved. :confused::confused:


  • #263
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Avatar MIA wrote:
    Or is she a Lannister?


    Her marriage to Tyrion was never consummated, so was rendered void


  • #264
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,248 ✭✭✭Daith


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Under the laws of Westeros, only a king can legitimise a bastard or anull a marriage. Those born out of wedlock aren't allowed to claim their mother's names.

    Sansa can't simply decide that she's a Stark again. She's a Bolton. She has no authority to re-claim her maiden name or give it to any of her children.

    Power lies where people believe it lies but what power has Sansa? She's squandered her brother's army of wildlings and has the fealty of a handful of minor houses. Should the Karstarks decide that they should be Kings in the North, what can she do to stop them?

    Under the laws of Westeros Tommen shouldn't be King but he is.

    I think you're putting too much faith in made up laws which have consistently being shown to be bent or broken when needs be.

    Again who's going to tell Sansa she can't make herself Queen of the North if she wanted to? What authority is there in the North? Who's making the rules these days?


  • #265
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Daith wrote: »
    I wonder if we could get a parallel to Elizabeth II and have Arryn-Stark to be a new family name?

    Didn't work so well with Kar-Stark


  • #266
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,248 ✭✭✭Daith


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Didn't work so well with Kar-Stark

    True but I think there's some Sansa/Elizabeth parallels going on here.

    Still Aegon and Robert became Kings through force. People believe Tommen is the son of Robert so he's King. I wouldn't put too much faith into the laws of Westeros.


  • #267
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    rawn wrote: »
    Theon, Sansa, Jon, Sam and possibly Howland Reed know.

    They know that he was alive at a later point than commonly known. Nothing now


  • #268
    Washington Irving
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,066 ✭✭✭Washington Irving


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Didn't work so well with Kar-Stark

    Realise you're joking, but the Karstark name wasn't created through an amalgamation of houses. It was a younger Stark brother who was given his own keep (Karhold), whose lords were 'Karhold Starks' (and eventually 'Karstarks').


  • #269
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,248 ✭✭✭Daith


    Deleted User wrote: »
    They know that he was alive at a later point than commonly known. Nothing now

    They know when he ends up causing the Wall to come crashing down!


  • #270
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,548 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    You can become King/Queen by conquest or by inheritance. Sansa hasn't the army for the former or the gender for the latter.


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  • #271
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,248 ✭✭✭Daith


    Sleepy wrote: »
    You can become King/Queen by conquest or by inheritance. Sansa hasn't the army for the former or the gender for the latter.

    Who's making these rules that Sansa can't become Queen? What authority is deciding this?


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