Reframing feminism ** mod warning posts 1 and 50 **

Jack Killian wrote: »

Hang on - let's have a look at the high-profile politicians that had made it.

Mary O'Rourke, Mary Hanafin, Joan Burton, etc. Hardly chosen based on ability.

Best politician in the Dáil last year : Catherine Murphy. Independent.

If quotas applied to independents she was above 50/50 in her nomination because it was 100/0 in female favour, but as I'm not in favour of quotas I'm delighted that she was there to do the type of work that any of the old guard above would run a mile from.

So to break it down into an Animal Farm style "not female friendly" is crazy. It's a job that involves being away from home & family. It's a job that should involve X, Y & Z, so make a choice.

It could also be argued that it's EXTREMELY family-friendly as you're off while schools are off.

And that's assuming that one of the criteria of this airy-fairy "not exactly female friendly" involves family, which in itself is sexist as not every woman has / wants a family or puts family over career. But that is not being suggested by me; it's suggested by those who are supposedly against sexism, ironically.

Stop with the nonsense will you. Do you ship kids kids to boarding school for the rest of the year? I don't know many child minding facilities that are open at ten o'clock at night.

Just to add, first time I came across discussion about quotas was for medical students in country I come from. Because we have continuous evaluation in schools leaving cert brings only part of the points and the rest are made by grades through the years in certain subjects. That puts boys at significant disadvantage because they mature later and their grades in high school usually aren't as good. There is significant lack of male medical students and that causes different issues in how health service operates.

The role of quotas is there to address imbalances that would take ages to be corrected on itself. Quotas in politics worked well in a lot of European countries, they are not the result of some man hating agenda they are more quickly addressing the imbalance that has to be addressed.

meeeeh wrote: »

The role of quotas is there to address imbalances that would take ages to be corrected on itself. Quotas in politics worked well in a lot of European countries, they are not the result of some man hating agenda they are more quickly addressing the imbalance that has to be addressed.

I'm willing to wait ages if it means I don't get fielded by FG or whoever PURELY because I'm a woman. Change takes time. Quotas don't address the complex issues.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I have been talking back to as many people as possible. A lot of people were talking to me and I was replying to as many as I could.

Which point do you want me to have a look at?

That's my point. You're talking back to people. Not discussing anything with them.

What's the point in having a gender quota if it's just to make up the numbers, if the male candidates are stronger? Is that not discrimination against men?

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Excuse me? Talking back is my term for replying. If you want to say a post to me without it being rude I will respond.

How is what I said rude?!

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Have men said they are bring discriminated against in this area?

Quite widely yes. I -personally- know five teachers, two of whom are female and three who are male. Four of them graduated the same year from the same College. The two women have both managed to secure jobs (some 4-5 years after graduating) and one of the guys has only managed to get Sub work.

Now, a little issue that often crops up on both sides is whatabouttery, which generally I'm okay with as it is a valid form of debate but it can also be used to completely distract from a topic. Quite often in such discussions we do so cases of people discussing womens issues and it's interrupted by asshates complaining about mens issues, BUT, when a discussions happens about mens issues, more asshats show up and complain about womens issues.

Women have by and large been discriminated by the State in our History, it got particularly bad in my opinion in the late 1800's and 1900's, however in the modern society, men and women are considered equals for he most part.

Yes, there are less female politicians, but there are also very few male teachers in Primary schools or even working in child care.

Anyway! I think we've diverted off the original topic by quite a bit.

Women's issues get publicized in all the major news outlets ''Everyday'' ,Irish independent,Irish time,Journal. ETC

but all these news outlet never cover male issues or even an average mans point off view on our issues

Yet men are the ones supposedly with all the power

The only men bar one who get publicized are the white knight male journalist that love to attack men

I'm not blaming all women for that but I think the feminist policing will shut down any opinion that doesn't suit their narrative with
the accusation off ''misogamy''and news outlets and journalists won't take the risk

we are 50% percent off the population yet the average male point off view is not allowed in the mainstream

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I don't think it's fair to say that Hillary Clinton reinvented herself as a feminist. She has always been a feminist, even before her now famous speech at a women's conference in 1995 in China:

In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in the People's Republic of China itself,[180] declaring that "it is no longer acceptable to discuss women's rights as separate from human rights". Delegates from over 180 countries heard her say: "If there is one message that echoes forth from this conference, let it be that human rights are women's rights and women's rights are human rights, once and for all." In doing so, she resisted both internal administration and Chinese pressure to soften her remarks. The speech became a key moment in the empowerment of women and years later females around the world would recite Clinton's key phrases. She was one of the most prominent international figures during the late 1990s to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Taliban. She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the U.S. to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries. It and Clinton's own visits encouraged women to make themselves heard in the Northern Ireland peace process.


And with regard to her marriage:


In 1998, the Clintons' relationship became the subject of much speculation when investigations revealed that the President had engaged in an extramarital affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky. Events surrounding the Lewinsky scandal eventually led to the impeachment of Bill Clinton by the House of Representatives. When the allegations against her husband were first made public, Hillary Clinton stated that they were the result of a "vast right-wing conspiracy", characterizing the Lewinsky charges as the latest in a long, organized, collaborative series of charges by Bill Clinton's political enemies[nb 8] rather than any wrongdoing by her husband. She later said that she had been misled by her husband's initial claims that no affair had taken place. After the evidence of President Clinton's encounters with Lewinsky became incontrovertible, she issued a public statement reaffirming her commitment to their marriage, but privately was reported to be furious at him and was unsure if she wanted to stay in the marriage. The White House residence staff noticed a pronounced level of tension between the couple during this period.

Public reaction varied. Some women admired her strength and poise in private matters made public, some sympathized with her as a victim of her husband's insensitive behavior, others criticized her as being an enabler to her husband's indiscretions, while still others accused her of cynically staying in a failed marriage as a way of keeping or even fostering her own political influence. Her public approval ratings in the wake of the revelations shot upward to around 70 percent, the highest they had ever been. In her 2003 memoir, she would attribute her decision to stay married to "a love that has persisted for decades" and add: "No one understands me better and no one can make me laugh the way Bill does. Even after all these years, he is still the most interesting, energizing and fully alive person I have ever met."

Source: Hillary Clinton, Wikipedia entry


She has throughout her life advocated for women and children's welfare in family law and when her marriage was in trouble, she didn't portray herself as a victim and wasn't going to allow anyone to tell her what she should or shouldn't do. She decided she wasn't going to cut off her nose to spite her face and I have to admire her for many of those qualities, as well as the fact that she has shown throughout her life that despite numerous setbacks, she continues to show women that they don't have to allow themselves to be victims, but that they can create their own opportunities and the meritocracy system will reward them for their work.



(or they could settle for hoping that providing men with sexual favours would get them somewhere besides doing TED talks 20 years later)