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British Labour MP shot near Leeds (mod warning in first post)

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Comments

  • #392
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    So do I. But that doesn't mean Brexit caused her death.

    You cannot carry-on in a liberal democracy with the assumption that someone will go too far with a peaceful idea, and corrupt your idea.

    God forbid, if any person had been disproportionately motivated by the Marriage Referendum last year and gone out and shot a pro-amendment or anti-amendment campaigner, that would be a tragedy. And although that was a very emotive campaign, with actual homophobia, and accusations of homophobia, none of the activists would have been to blame.

    One person is to blame for the killing of Jo Cox: the man who shot her. His blame may be abrogated by reason of insanity, we don't yet know that. But that's as far as the blame goes.

    Just like the millions of Muslims are not to blame for the nutters who claim to act for them.


  • #393
    Its dead Jim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 284 ✭✭Its dead Jim


    stefanovich wrote: »
    They went the Christian patrols in response to the Shariah patrols going around beatin up gay men and women. Look at footage from one of their patrols. Who's the bad guy in this video?

    I wonder who sat down one day that said to the others "You know the guys that we hate? We should copy them!"
    stefanovich wrote: »
    Not the one's saying:

    "This is not a Christian country"
    "We are taking over"
    "You're scared cause we are taking over"
    "We will drive you out and take over"

    Not the ones being violent and attacking them.

    They prefer to shoot MPs.


  • #394
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Extreme Right wing apologists out in force in this thread.


  • #395
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,377 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Right wing extremists in protecting gay rights shocker.

    Give me a break


  • #396
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    Jayop wrote: »
    Extreme Right wing apologists out in force in this thread.

    Hamstringed by their own tactic of lumping violent extremists in with the larger group.


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  • #397
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Hamstringed by their own tactic of lumping violent extremists in with the larger group.

    Yup must be causing a million brain melt downs.


  • #398
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I don't see Britain First preaching death. I do see a worryingly large minority of Muslims preaching death to the West though.
    :rolleyes:

    Their own leader has said they "specialist in militant direct action" and called for this "direct action" against a number of people, including the mayor of London!

    What do you think of this?

    “They think they can get away with ruining our country, turning us into a Third World country, giving away our homes, jobs and heritage, but they will face the wrath of the Britain First movement, make no mistake about it!” [Britain First Deputy Leader Jayda] Fransen threatened. She then went on to make clear how their rivals would be treated.

    “We will not rest until every traitor is punished for their crimes against our country,” she wrote. “And by punished, I mean good old fashioned British justice at the end of a rope!”
    The difference in the Orlando case is that the group he aligned with is cutting peoples heads off in the desert. Britain First are not!
    I take it your views have completely changed in light of the quote above.


  • #399
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Billy86 wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Their own leader has said they "specialist in militant direct action" and called for this "direct action" against a number of people, including the mayor of London!

    What do you think of this?

    “They think they can get away with ruining our country, turning us into a Third World country, giving away our homes, jobs and heritage, but they will face the wrath of the Britain First movement, make no mistake about it!” [Britain First Deputy Leader Jayda] Fransen threatened. She then went on to make clear how their rivals would be treated.

    “We will not rest until every traitor is punished for their crimes against our country,” she wrote. “And by punished, I mean good old fashioned British justice at the end of a rope!”

    I take it your views have completely changed in light of the quote above.

    Don't expect a bigot to let facts change his views.


  • #400
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    When asked his name in court, he answered "Death to Traitors, Britain First".

    The man's sister has said he suffered from mental illness.

    I think there's a sporting chance that the man is insane.

    Nobody in the public spehere has proven knowledge of anything, i.e. none his motives for murdering Jo Cox; that's what the trial is for. I think it's reasonable, however, to proceed with a strong suspicion that he is mentally ill.

    I would imagine nearly all radicalised terrorists are, and I've for ages said we should be locking them up, but to study them at significant length to see how we might be able to combat this in the future. Not intended at you, but isn't is strange how when it comes to the likes of this guy of Robert Dear (far right terrorist who attacked the Planned Parenthood location last year) it becomes all about mental health, deep searches into 'what could have led them astray' and 'what was going on in their lives that could have brought them to this' etc etc... but when it's a Muslim, it's because they're evil and Islam poses a threat to us all, and why aren't more Muslims denouncing it, etc etc.

    Orlando was an act of Islamic terrorism by someone likely not all there in the head who had been radicalised, likely in no small part by prominent Muslims calling for violence. Birstall was an act of far right, nationalistic terrorism by someone likely not all there in the head who had been radicalised, likely in no small part by prominent nationalists calling for violence.

    Basically, my guess is they're nearly all insane to some extent - be they Islamist, far right nationalist/white supremacist, or otherwise.


  • #401
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    stefanovich wrote: »
    They went the Christian patrols in response to the Shariah patrols going around beatin up gay men and women. Look at footage from one of their patrols. Who's the bad guy in this video?
    no they didn't start the Christian patrols in response to the Shariah patrols going around beating up gay men and women. britain first are against homosexuality anyway. they started those patrols to beat up muslims. britain first are extremist nuts just like the islamic extremists. all are vermin who's ideals and views must be challenged at every opportunity and shown up for what they are, poisonous.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • #402
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    LightsStillOn wrote: »
    Wait...people are really trying to defend Britain First in here? Such a harmless group alright, who go around doing "Christian Patrols" and invade meat factories
    You obviously keep away from the 'Muslim themed' threads on After Hours, and you're probably a better person because of it. :p


  • #403
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Billy86 wrote: »
    I would imagine nearly all radicalised terrorists are, and I've for ages said we should be locking them up, but to study them at significant length to see how we might be able to combat this in the future. Not intended at you, but isn't is strange how when it comes to the likes of this guy of Robert Dear (far right terrorist who attacked the Planned Parenthood location last year) it becomes all about mental health, deep searches into 'what could have led them astray' and 'what was going on in their lives that could have brought them to this' etc etc... but when it's a Muslim, it's because they're evil and Islam poses a threat to us all, and why aren't more Muslims denouncing it, etc etc.

    Orlando was an act of Islamic terrorism by someone likely not all there in the head who had been radicalised, likely in no small part by prominent Muslims calling for violence. Birstall was an act of far right, nationalistic terrorism by someone likely not all there in the head who had been radicalised, likely in no small part by prominent nationalists calling for violence.

    Basically, my guess is they're nearly all insane to some extent - be they Islamist, far right nationalist/white supremacist, or otherwise.

    Exactly the bad using the mad.


  • #404
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    stefanovich wrote: »
    PETA are way more extreme. The methods used to kill animals for halal meat are cruel.


    it's the way our grand parents would have done it. cruel yes but so are modern methods. if you think otherwise you are deluded. killing an animal is cruel full stop, but if you like meat then you except it's par for the course.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #405
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    LightsStillOn wrote: »
    They've clearly been antagonised into saying those things, not that I agree with what they are saying, and I'd bet that the majority of those saying it don't believe it either, they are just trying to get a rise out of Britian First.

    What do you think the reaction would be if a group of Muslims did the very same thing in a predominantly white working class British area?
    Do you spend a lot of time in the UK? I do and I've seen it first hand in London. They are not just acting that way because of the Britain First people being there. There are a lot of angry young Muslim men in the UK who are hostile to white British people. Also, every area in the UK is British.
    Samaris wrote: »
    As a matter of interest, are they vile because they are Muslim, i.e. a "vile Muslim" is any Muslim, or are they Muslim and vile as individual people?
    I don't agree with Islam but they are not vile for being from a certain ethnic background or culture related to Islam. It's the beliefs that are vile or at least the ones that take it seriously.
    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    Would you include Borris Johnsons Muslim relatives in that statement.

    I don't know what his Turkish family were like so no comment.
    weisses wrote: »
    I think that's the problem

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Golding

    Wikipedia, don't make me laugh.
    Its dead Jim wrote: »
    I wonder who sat down one day that said to the others "You know the guys that we hate? We should copy them!"

    They prefer to shoot MPs.

    It's about highlighting double standards. "They" didn't shoot anyone.
    Jayop wrote: »
    Right wing extremists in protecting gay rights shocker.

    Give me a break

    It was a response to Shariah patrols.
    Billy86 wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Their own leader has said they "specialist in militant direct action" and called for this "direct action" against a number of people, including the mayor of London!

    What do you think of this?

    “They think they can get away with ruining our country, turning us into a Third World country, giving away our homes, jobs and heritage, but they will face the wrath of the Britain First movement, make no mistake about it!” [Britain First Deputy Leader Jayda] Fransen threatened. She then went on to make clear how their rivals would be treated.

    “We will not rest until every traitor is punished for their crimes against our country,” she wrote. “And by punished, I mean good old fashioned British justice at the end of a rope!”

    I take it your views have completely changed in light of the quote above.
    She appears to be in favour of the death penalty for traitors. I think it's actually still part of British law.
    Where did you get that quote from by the way so I can see it in context?

    And no, my views have not changed.
    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    Don't expect a bigot to let facts change his views.
    Thanks!
    end of the road wrote: »
    no they didn't start the Christian patrols in response to the Shariah patrols going around beating up gay men and women. britain first are against homosexuality anyway. they started those patrols to beat up muslims. britain first are extremist nuts just like the islamic extremists. all are vermin who's ideals and views must be challenged at every opportunity and shown up for what they are, poisonous.

    They did nothing of the sort. Show me proof please.


  • #406
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    end of the road wrote: »
    it's the way our grand parents would have done it. cruel yes but so are modern methods. if you think otherwise you are deluded. killing an animal is cruel full stop, but if you like meat then you except it's par for the course.
    They'll also be sacrificing animals this Ramadan. I don't see any of you leftists crying about that.

    There's a big difference between instant death in a slaughter house and bleeding out slowly.


  • #407
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    Just like the millions of Muslims are not to blame for the nutters who claim to act for them.

    To be fair, the auld Tyrant is consistent in his view - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99924992&postcount=142 .

    I both agree and disagree with him; both the likes of Anjem Choudary and Jayda Fransen, and the types they speak for, absolutely play a role in the terrorist acts 'their side' commits, just as much as each other. Both are absolute extremists who only serve to make this world a better place. But it doesn't mean that all Brexiters are to blame for this or have a hand - not in the slightest - just the same as all Muslims are not to blame or didn't have a hand in incidents like we saw in Orlando last week.


  • #408
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Do you spend a lot of time in the UK? I do and I've seen it first hand in London. They are not just acting that way because of the Britain First people being there. There are a lot of angry young Muslim men in the UK who are hostile to white British people. Also, every area in the UK is British.


    I don't agree with Islam but they are not vile for being from a certain ethnic background or culture related to Islam. It's the beliefs that are vile or at least the ones that take it seriously.



    I don't know what his Turkish family were like so no comment.



    Wikipedia, don't make me laugh.



    It's about highlighting double standards. "They" didn't shoot anyone.



    It was a response to Shariah patrols.


    She appears to be in favour of the death penalty for traitors. I think it's actually still part of British law.
    Where did you get that quote from by the way so I can see it in context?

    And no, my views have not changed.


    Thanks!



    They did nothing of the sort. Show me proof please.

    Not all parts of the UK are British maybe some of the UK is the British Islands.


  • #409
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    Not all parts of the UK are British maybe some of the UK is the British Islands.

    Okay lets exclude Northern Ireland. England is certainly British anyway.


  • #410
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Not the one's saying:

    "This is not a Christian country"
    "We are taking over"
    "You're scared cause we are taking over"
    "We will drive you out and take over"

    Not the ones being violent and attacking them.


    but britain isn't a christian country. it's a secular state. the rest was just to winde the britain first dregs up which in fairness is easy to do. britain first wanted a fight as usual and they got it.
    stefanovich wrote: »
    There are a lot of vile Muslims in England. That's why.

    they're are a number of vile all sorts in britain. yes they're are some extremist muslims in britain. that doesn't make muslims as a whole vile, something you fail to understand.
    stefanovich wrote: »
    I'm absolutely not embarrassed and its not crap.

    your right it's not crap, it's total b///x. and you should be embarrassed for following the likes of britain first and believing their nonsense.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #411
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Okay lets exclude Northern Ireland. England is certainly British anyway.

    The correct title is the United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland. Great Britian or Britian is the Kingdom of England and Wales together with the Kingdom of Scotland.


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  • #412
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    end of the road wrote: »
    but britain isn't a christian country. it's a secular state. the rest was just to winde the britain first dregs up which in fairness is easy to do. britain first wanted a fight as usual and they got it.
    The Church of England. History. It's most certainly a Christian country.

    end of the road wrote: »
    they're are a number of vile all sorts in britain. yes they're are some extremist muslims in britain. that doesn't make muslims as a whole vile, something you fail to understand.

    Did I say all Muslims are vile? No. A lot of them are though. Their beliefs are backwards and ignorant.
    end of the road wrote: »
    your right it's not crap, it's total b///x. and you should be embarrassed for following the likes of britain first and believing their nonsense.

    Did I say I followed them? Another poster mentioned Christian patrols. I posted the video which showed them peacefully protesting and handing out flyers and they got threatened with violence and aggression.

    They have every right to walk down the street with a cross.


  • #413
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    stefanovich wrote: »
    The Church of England. History. It's most certainly a Christian country.




    Did I say all Muslims are vile? No. A lot of them are though. Their beliefs are backwards and ignorant.



    Did I say I followed them? Another poster mentioned Christian patrols. I posted the video which showed them peacefully protestors and handing out flyers and they got threatened with violence and aggression.

    They have every right to walk down the street with a cross.

    The Church of England is there because a king was a knobber.
    and https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/23/no-religion-outnumber-christians-england-wales-study

    You have little knowledge of history or reality.

    For many years a Catholic had no rights in these islands because of the church of England and the likes of Britian first.


  • #414
    LightsStillOn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭LightsStillOn


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Do you spend a lot of time in the UK? I do and I've seen it first hand in London. They are not just acting that way because of the Britain First people being there. There are a lot of angry young Muslim men in the UK who are hostile to white British people. Also, every area in the UK is British.

    Yeah, quite a bit to be honest. Grew up there, had a Muslim family next door one side, Asian family the other side of me. Spent the majority of my time going between both houses as they had kids my age too, some of the nicest and most welcoming people I've ever met! The multicultural aspect of the U.K is what makes it so great in my opinion.

    And yeah, every area in Britian is British. Well done. You know what I meant!


  • #415
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    stefanovich wrote: »
    They'll also be sacrificing animals this Ramadan. I don't see any of you leftists crying about that.

    what leftists. they're are no leftists in this thread. anyone who will be sacrificing animals will be breaking the law, and if one has any evidence that such is going to happen then it is their duty to pass that information on to the authorities for them to stop it.
    stefanovich wrote: »
    There's a big difference between instant death in a slaughter house and bleeding out slowly.

    they're is a difference, but not a big difference. unfortunately death isn't always instant with modern methods. like i said, killing an animal in general is cruel but if you are a meat eater then you except it's par for the course.
    all animals have to be taken to a proper licenced vetted slaughter house to be killed whether by the old method or modern methods. that slaughter house has to be completely in line with the relevant regulations/licences and so on, and must abide by them at all times. that is the law. you cannot kill an animal on your own property.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #416
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    The Church of England is there because a king was a knobber.
    and https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/23/no-religion-outnumber-christians-england-wales-study

    You have little knowledge of history or reality.

    I suggest you notice all the massive Cathedrals and Churches all over England next time you are there. Historically it is very much a Christian country.

    Yes and I know why the Church of England exists and I am also aware that Catholics are also Christians!


  • #417
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    LightsStillOn wrote: »
    Yeah, quite a bit to be honest. Grew up there, had a Muslim family next door one side, Asian family the other side of me. Spent the majority of my time going between both houses as they had kids my age too, some of the nicest and most welcoming people I've ever met! The multicultural aspect of the U.K is what makes it so great in my opinion.
    And? I am not denying there are nice Asian people or nice people who identify as Muslim. There is a massive problem in the UK and has been for a long time. The nice people don't change that.
    end of the road wrote: »
    what leftists. they're are no leftists in this thread. anyone who will be sacrificing animals will be breaking the law, and if one has any evidence that such is going to happen then it is their duty to pass that information on to the authorities for them to stop it.
    Funny. They are going to be sacrificing animals in Dublin. The police will do nothing. It's tolerated.

    end of the road wrote: »
    they're is a difference, but not a big difference. unfortunately death isn't always instant with modern methods. like i said, killing an animal in general is cruel but if you are a meat eater then you except it's par for the course.
    all animals have to be taken to a proper licenced vetted slaughter house to be killed whether by the old method or modern methods. that slaughter house has to be completely in line with the relevant regulations/licences and so on, and must abide by them at all times. that is the law. you cannot kill an animal on your own property.
    Muslims are allowed to be more cruel. Ban it.


  • #418
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    stefanovich wrote: »
    I suggest you notice all the massive Cathedrals and Churches all over England next time you are there. Historically it is very much a Christian country.

    Yes and I know why the Church of England exists and I am also aware that Catholics are also Christians!

    But currently the majority of persons of the UK claim not to be Christian, it's not just that Catholics are Christians but that for hundreds of years they where persecuted in Britian and further much that is now said about Muslims was said about them. Look up the gun powder plot guy lives on every year.


  • #419
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    stefanovich wrote: »
    She appears to be in favour of the death penalty for traitors. I think it's actually still part of British law.
    Where did you get that quote from by the way so I can see it in context?

    The death penalty was abolished in the UK a long time ago, so she was not referring to it. She could not have been referring to anything in the legal system.
    It was taken in the context that it was in their statement that Paul Golding was running for mayor of London - https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBritainFirst/photos/gm.883309458420398/884386278373301/?type=1&theater

    In other words, it was an unprovoked comment intended to do nothing but spew hatred and promote terrorism and violence, just like ISIS. Here are some other gems from it...
    Britain First is more than a normal, political party - we are a "Declaration of War" against the establishment...

    They will all endure a "Day of Reckoning" for their crimes and treachery and we will deal with them in the same way our ancestors dealt with them: through Traitors Gate at the Tower of London!...

    We are mighty, bold, proud and strong and we will stop at nothing to take our country back.

    even other so-called "patriot" groups, have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at Britain First to try and halt our advance, but we have powered through and now we stand on the frontline alone.

    We will emerge victorious in this conflict, make no mistake about it, we cannot and will not be beaten.
    Declaring war on the western governments, full of colourful, militant language just like ISIS, claiming they will 'stop at nothing to take our country back' (meaning if democracy won't work...), and calling for a 'day of reckoning' in which to murder the people who disagree with them.

    If you want to defend the far right and it's violent rhetoric on this then fine, that's your decision. But remember, it also means that you are no better than someone convinced the jihadists are the 'good guys'.
    And no, my views have not changed.
    Yeah, I'm not surprised. Typical of your type.


  • #420
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    stefanovich wrote: »
    And? I am not denying there are nice Asian people or nice people who identify as Muslim. There is a massive problem in the UK and has been for a long time. The nice people don't change that.


    Funny. They are going to be sacrificing animals in Dublin. The police will do nothing. It's tolerated.



    Muslims are allowed to be more cruel. Ban it.

    OK let's ban all slaughtering.


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  • #421
    stefanovich
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    But currently the majority of persons of the UK claim not to be Christian, it's not just that Catholics are Christians but that for hundreds of years they where persecuted in Britian and further much that is now said about Muslims was said about them. Look up the gun powder plot guy lives on every year.

    2011 census disagrees with you. 59.5% Christian.


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