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Milk Price- Please read Mod note in post #1

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Comments

  • #8852
    OverRide
    Closed Accounts Posts: 665 ✭✭✭OverRide


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Fully agree ,no point whinging here tho ,start making noise ,keep phoning and asking questions of board members and what there at ,organise protests ,picket bellview ,don't let trucks in or out ,have them balls to form a group and challenge the Msa .

    I'm aware of a lot of people who plan to give the 2 yrs notice on the Msa
    Its not enough, but plans are afoot,informal meetings are happening here and there already, which will escalate?


  • #8853
    6270red
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭6270red


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Fully agree ,no point whinging here tho ,start making noise ,keep phoning and asking questions of board members and what there at ,organise protests ,picket bellview ,don't let trucks in or out ,have them balls to form a group and challenge the Msa .

    Dead right, but we won't do it! Why? People are questioning why we are taking Kerry Plc to arbitration over commitments made, do you think we have the balls to blockade? I don't.


  • #8854
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,084 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    Question is do processors want more supplier s if msa is broken.


  • #8855
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,718 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    Question is do processors want more supplier s if msa is broken.

    We held milk price at 23.68 Kev ,


  • #8856
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    OverRide wrote: »
    I'm aware of a lot of people who plan to give the 2 yrs notice on the Msa
    Its not enough, but plans are afoot,informal meetings are happening here and there already, which will escalate?

    If one possitive things come out of this maybe it is that farmer's are beginning to realise that they can't always belive everything they are told by people In the top table. It's about time farmer's started to ask hard questions.
    Amazing to observe how people who even a few months ago didn't see any problem finally beginning to wake up to the reality of where we are


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  • #8857
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,789 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    OverRide wrote: »
    I'm aware of a lot of people who plan to give the 2 yrs notice on the Msa
    Its not enough, but plans are afoot,informal meetings are happening here and there already, which will escalate?
    is it not 3 years notice from 1st of january 2017?


  • #8858
    OverRide
    Closed Accounts Posts: 665 ✭✭✭OverRide


    Gosh that NI dairy farmer on six one just now promoting BREXIT must be quare thick
    The UK is not going to pay a similar support if they leave,they've no record of that,they'll let farmers go bust and import

    He was giving out about European rules and regulations (rightly) but doesn't seem to realise that to export to the European union, British farmers in a BREXIT will be forced to uphold all the rules with none of the input into shaping them
    So lose lose


  • #8859
    Ruxin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭Ruxin


    whelan2 wrote: »
    is it not 3 years notice from 1st of january 2017?

    No its two years notice


  • #8860
    OverRide
    Closed Accounts Posts: 665 ✭✭✭OverRide


    whelan2 wrote: »
    is it not 3 years notice from 1st of january 2017?

    It's 2 years notice, from the 3rd anniversary of your signing date


  • #8861
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    OverRide wrote: »
    Gosh that NI dairy farmer on six one just now promoting BREXIT must be quare thick
    The UK is not going to pay a similar support if they leave,they've no record of that,they'll let farmers go bust and import

    He was giving out about European rules and regulations (rightly) but doesn't seem to realise that to export to the European union, British farmers in a BREXIT will be forced to uphold all the rules with none of the input into shaping them
    So lose lose
    He is thick as you get the EU rules that the british civil service gold plate to give themselves something to do. There will be some support but not quite in the way used to


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  • #8862
    OverRide
    Closed Accounts Posts: 665 ✭✭✭OverRide


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    If one possitive things come out of this maybe it is that farmer's are beginning to realise that they can't always belive everything they are told by people In the top table. It's about time farmer's started to ask hard questions.
    Amazing to observe how people who even a few months ago didn't see any problem finally beginning to wake up to the reality of where we are

    The share spinout bribe is probably beginning to dry up and Rabbo bank wouldn't have allowed farmers to count it as regular income when stress testing the 'farming for Bergin' loans so a lot of them are probably getting a reality check alright


  • #8863
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    OverRide wrote: »
    Gosh that NI dairy farmer on six one just now promoting BREXIT must be quare thick
    The UK is not going to pay a similar support if they leave,they've no record of that,they'll let farmers go bust and import

    He was giving out about European rules and regulations (rightly) but doesn't seem to realise that to export to the European union, British farmers in a BREXIT will be forced to uphold all the rules with none of the input into shaping them
    So lose lose

    To be fair if the British have been like our officials here and blaming every new rule and regulation on the Eu then it is not maybe too hard to see how anti Eu sentiment may be building up. Possibly if the Eu is to survive, maybe a more hands off approach may be needed. A growing number of people are getting annoyed with too much buerocacy. Maybe it's time our politicians sat up and took notice. Otherwise we could see more countries holding referendums to leave


  • #8864
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    OverRide wrote: »

    He was giving out about European rules and regulations (rightly) but doesn't seem to realise that to export to the European union, British farmers in a BREXIT will be forced to uphold all the rules with none of the input into shaping them
    So lose lose

    Well not quite lose lose.

    I mean if Ireland's milk was say 15-20% cheaper than euro denominated milk, as it might well be in a currency free float... those world markets that we keep harping on about would be buying our powder ahead of other European exporters and the marginal milk equation would change a bit in our favour.

    I think many UK farmers nowadays see the end of the road for CAP style subsidies being somewhere ahead, and would prefer to add value & run their business accordingly rather than being caught between the rock of a subsidy and the hard place of EU regulation.


  • #8865
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    kowtow wrote: »
    Well not quite lose lose.

    I mean if Ireland's milk was say 15-20% cheaper than euro denominated milk, as it might well be in a currency free float... those world markets that we keep harping on about would be buying our powder ahead of other European exporters and the marginal milk equation would change a bit in our favour.

    I think many UK farmers nowadays see the end of the road for CAP style subsidies being somewhere ahead, and would prefer to add value & run their business accordingly rather than being caught between the rock of a subsidy and the hard place of EU regulation.

    Eu regulation is now set in stone in Whitehall...

    This is more of a political argument than an economic one.
    I wish Brexit the best of luck. Something tells me that this is only the beginning. Hopefully.


  • #8866
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Credit to farmers in the US drying up atm as demand for government backed credit soars.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usda-loans-farmers-idUSKCN0Z02OY


  • #8867
    Dawggone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭Dawggone


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    Credit to farmers in the US drying up atm as demand for government backed credit soars.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usda-loans-farmers-idUSKCN0Z02OY

    Puts perspective on the whining and moaning of dairy...

    31yrs of protectionism makes dairy farmers sound a little....


  • #8868
    atlantic mist
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭atlantic mist


    ah henry is looking after our tillage farmers
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kDDj3scCK8

    were not hitting world markets at all and were going to be very exposed until these regions develop fully, there is the population there that we can target but were trying to change eating habits and be competitive in low wage economies and have currency to factor in also the euro will remain strong against areas we are targeting, should come good for our kids or grand kids, always wonder about the markets we are targeting being the oceanic region and africa cause water is a problem in both areas and powder needs to be mixed

    when markets do settle we will be paid a lower price like kt is saying, gii cant pay top eu price they need to be a few cent above nz as were focused on similar regions and short to medium term it looks like it will be a bumpy road

    if were in the powder business why not link up with nz considering our seasons are opposite we could arrange supply all year round, still dont know why we dont target other eu countries more considering our price differential


  • #8869
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,398 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    If we had developed a range of product for the EU market of course we would now be paying close to 30 cent. Look at Danone price in France.
    But our management has been fat and lazy over the last 30 years for the most part.


  • #8870
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    atlantic mist wrote: »
    ah henry is looking after our tillage farmers
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kDDj3scCK8

    Basically i dont know how tillage make money, best get out for more cows i guess?! Dog on the street knows tillage farms in ireland have been subbing stock farms on feed grains for years... But any tillage farmer using a serviced agronomist producing feed grains truely deserves a paddling. Fish over a barrel they win at every angle.
    Also, anybody care to put a figure on how much quota was worth per litre produced over the last 30 years? As in how much extra did restricting the size of the volume in a protected market add to the bottom line before, well, now happened?.
    It may be theory crafting but dont tell me anything would be like it is today without quota...


  • #8871
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n12/james-meek/how-to-grow-a-weetabix
    a good read


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  • #8872
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    browned wrote: »
    Just saw that now. Some commitment to hold price at 23.75 for the rest of the year. They must be either confident that prices won't drop much further or have heard that a sharp rise is on the way☺️

    My understanding is that your board has committed to .5 cent support for the year rather than actual price but I stand to be corrected


  • #8873
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    keep going wrote: »
    My understanding is that your board has committed to .5 cent support for the year rather than actual price but I stand to be corrected

    IMO if the money is in you milk cheque then that's how much you've been paid for the milk. All this thing about the board supporting the milk price I just don't buy. You'd swear it was coming directly from their own pocket The concept seems to. Have been invented by the large Co ops spin doctors and sadly the small co ops are now starting to use this method of spin also. Actually if you want to make a claim that anyone is supporting the price of milk, you could say that farmer's are supporting the industry by continuing to produce milk for them below cost

    Not one person on here inspite of all the excuses being made for co ops has been able to make a stab at how much whey and lactose are contributing to mik price yet we can put a figure on how much the board is contributing.


  • #8874
    browned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 661 ✭✭✭browned


    keep going wrote: »
    My understanding is that your board has committed to .5 cent support for the year rather than actual price but I stand to be corrected

    Still tho it all helps. should help keep me in the mid 30's for the rest of the year anyway. Heading west for the walk today? they've a creaking day for it


  • #8875
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    browned wrote: »
    Still tho it all helps. should help keep me in the mid 30's for the rest of the year anyway. Heading west for the walk today? they've a creaking day for it

    love to but i cant ,i wouldnt mind but when i heard it i wanted to take the whole family for a day out


  • #8876
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    IMO if the money is in you milk cheque then that's how much you've been paid for the milk. All this thing about the board supporting the milk price I just don't buy. You'd swear it was coming directly from their own pocket The concept seems to. Have been invented by the large Co ops spin doctors and sadly the small co ops are now starting to use this method of spin also. Actually if you want to make a claim that anyone is supporting the price of milk, you could say that farmer's are supporting the industry by continuing to produce milk for them below cost

    Not one person on here inspite of all the excuses being made for co ops has been able to make a stab at how much whey and lactose are contributing to mik price yet we can put a figure on how much the board is contributing.
    if a child looks at a the board and all he can see is that the board is black,how is he ever going to learn.its fairly clear cut in this case the sub in our coop is coming from other sources


  • #8877
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    keep going wrote: »
    if a child looks at a the board and all he can see is that the board is black,how is he ever going to learn.its fairly clear cut in this case the sub in our coop is coming from other sources

    Oh so like it's magic money? The point I am making is the ability they are able to give a detailed breakdown as to how much exactly they are "supporting" milk price and exactly how poor cheese ext. Is returning. Yet no one can give a figure on how much the whey from that cheese is returning? The point is we are being told all sorts of stories. But we are not being told the full story. Meanwhile the likes of Kerry use the other Co ops bull about supporting milk price to renege on their commitment to pay a leading milk price.

    No mention of the farmer supporting the industry by supplying his assets and labour for free or even a loss. Lets be clear about who is supporting who here. I don't think we should need to feel eternally grateful if a co op Bord allows more of the profits back to the farmer in milk price.


  • #8878
    browned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 661 ✭✭✭browned


    keep going wrote: »
    love to but i cant ,i wouldnt mind but when i heard it i wanted to take the whole family for a day out

    You're right there. They're great family days out, should be a big crowd there even if it's a bit off the beaten path. The farm walk for this year's Carbery winner should be excellent as well.


  • #8879
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    Oh so like it's magic money? The point I am making is the ability they are able to give a detailed breakdown as to how much exactly they are "supporting" milk price and exactly how poor cheese ext. Is returning. Yet no one can give a figure on how much the whey from that cheese is returning? The point is we are being told all sorts of stories. But we are not being told the full story. Meanwhile the likes of Kerry use the other Co ops bull about supporting milk price to renege on their commitment to pay a leading milk price.

    No mention of the farmer supporting the industry by supplying his assets and labour for free or even a loss. Lets be clear about who is supporting who here. I don't think we should need to feel eternally grateful if a co op Bord allows more of the profits back to the farmer in milk price.
    i cannot speak for other coops or processers,i can only speak for my own.the subs at carbery and coop levell are not coming from milk processing.the story with whey derivitives which you ask about is while cheese once delivered a healthy margin it has been eroded over the years to the point where once whey added a premium to the milk price it has now become the margin in cheese production.


  • #8880
    Farmer Ed
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,617 ✭✭✭Farmer Ed


    keep going wrote: »
    i cannot speak for other coops or processers,i can only speak for my own.the subs at carbery and coop levell are not coming from milk processing.the story with whey derivitives which you ask about is while cheese once delivered a healthy margin it has been eroded over the years to the point where once whey added a premium to the milk price it has now become the margin in cheese production.


    Yes but what exactly is whey returning? It's easy enough to calculate the cheese value. Assuming a 10% yield for cheddar and even that I would suspect that would be the lowest value cheese the likes of Carbery would be making at the moment. The question is what exactly is the whey part of the milk returning? It seems incredible that co ops can put an exact figure per litre on how much they are "supporting" the price of milk. But they can't tell us the return from all the components of that litre of milk?

    I did a quick online search and their seems to be a suggestion that whey could be as high as 6% dry matter? Personally I would have thought that figure a bit high? If correct that would mean a nice yield of whey powder or alcohol or what ever the processor should decide to do with that whey. I'm amazed that some who claim to have served on the boards of co ops can't answer this question? Were you ever told? Did you ever even ask? Or was is something you didn't feel you needed to understand as you took the view that the management could always be trusted 100% to look after your business? If the latter is the case then it begs the question? Why do we even have boards in co ops, if they don't see it as their responsibility to understand the business?


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  • #8881
    keep going
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭keep going


    Farmer Ed wrote: »
    Yes but what exactly is whey returning? It's easy enough to calculate the cheese value. Assuming a 10% yield for cheddar and even that I would suspect that would be the lowest value cheese the likes of Carbery would be making at the moment. The question is what exactly is the whey part of the milk returning? It seems incredible that co ops can put an exact figure per litre on how much they are "supporting" the price of milk. But they can't tell us the return from all the components of that litre of milk?

    I did a quick online search and their seems to be a suggestion that whey could be as high as 6% dry matter? Personally I would have thought that figure a bit high? If correct that would mean a nice yield of whey powder or alcohol or what ever the processor should decide to do with that whey. I'm amazed that some who claim to have served on the boards of co ops can't answer this question? Were you ever told? Did you ever even ask? Or was is something you didn't feel you needed to understand as you took the view that the management could always be trusted 100% to look after your business? If the latter is the case then it begs the question? Why do we even have boards in co ops, if they don't see it as their responsibility to understand the business?
    alcohol hasnt returned a profit in 10 tens years,its main place in carberys system is it helps with the effluent processing on site.i must admit i didnt take notice of the current price of whey powder but the last time i did i remember thinking it was less than half what we had been getting at some point previously.


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