Is dodging the salary question a common thing here?

15-06-2016 12:24PM

Phantasos wrote: »

I find it really tricky to navigate, presumably because I'm a chump that has had office admin roles and a generic business degree. I don't feel as open to negotiation as some of you people in high-demand IT roles.

When you ask about salary ranges upfront, how soon do you bring this up? When making enquiries? The interview stage? Would you just ask for a general range of salary, or specifics? Curious to see how other people deal with these things.

I think a lot of the advice still holds. If anything you are at an advantage as the floor isn't as far down, so you are less likely to waste time and the upside of playing the game is much bigger than the downside.

In your position I would definitely attempt to NOT be the person to say a number first (you will negotiate against yourself, even if only in your own mind). Couch answers looking forward than backwards and discuss salary in terms of what you can add rather than what you are on now. They want you to tell them what you are on now in order to keep you there or close to it.

I know it is hard to carry some of this stuff out but it's worth pushing it. And remember, if you HAVE to say a number, say whatever the biggest believable number is!

TheDoc · 15-06-2016 12:33PM

kevohmsford wrote: »

Personally I don't see the point of going through the whole interview process only to find out the position is not paying what you expected.

Yeah this is my take. As someone now hosting interviews, I ensure to have the details of our offer package ready to share should a candidate ask.

And myself, I'd be asking those questions first interview. And if its a recruiter brokering the interview, I'd be asking them ahead of the meet on the package.

Granted it depends on scenarios and job types etc. I work in the IT sector and definitly get annoyed with the awkard cringey sidestepping of questions about salaries and packages. As mentioned above, as much as a company doesn't want to waste time with a candidate they can't afford, I don't want to waste time interviewing for a job that isn't going to meet my financial expectations.

Last time I went out for interviews, if it wasn't mentioned to me, I asked about the packages on offer. Was upfront about my expectations etc. It allowed some interviews to close with a shake of hands and that I was out of their ballpark for what they were offering and just saved time. I was doing a lot of interviews, so I didn't want to be wasting time.

For the job I'm in, I asked about the package on offer and they were very elusive and dodged the question. They came back with asking me my expectations. I outlined my expectations and that I'd be willing to negotiate. Second round interview started straight off negotiating the package, and when that was done they offered me the job and it was done.

I don't comprehend why people would go through rounds and rounds and rounds of interviews without having an indication of the package on offer. Some really old skool mentalities of interview stuff that needs to be removed from the process.

I appreciate why initial postings and publicly shared listings don't include specifics or even ranges, trying to ensure applicants are focusing on the job itself and the requirements and responsibilities as opposed to figures. But when it gets to the interview stage, this taboo about money should be gone and mature conversations should be had.

intheclouds · 15-06-2016 12:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You have to admit it's a pretty bonkers situation for someone expecting six figures to be offered 30K after multiple interviews. I mean, something is very badly wrong somewhere there, and it is a very unusual circumstance. For one, the recruiting company should, if they have ANY sense, have taken one look at the CV and realised this wasn't the right person for the role. And how can you spend multiple interviews at a six figure level to be offered 30K? I am not saying it cannot happen, but it's surely an outlier.

But thats just one particular extreme example (there was no recruitment agent involved).

The same principle holds true if I want at least 50k and they offer me 40k.

There doesnt have to be a huge disparity to make it an issue.

The range should simply be stated up front.

Anyway, my advice for the OP is not to bother with companies where you are walking into an interview with no clue of the salary on offer. Dont be afraid to be direct and state your expectations when you are asked prior to interview.

DSN · 15-06-2016 04:01PM

Do you not have to put your current / last salary or your min salary on your CV? Surely that's an indicator to an interviewer of what you aiming for. I agree companies should state a range up front though I know lots don't!!! Over here they play their cards close to their chest & salaries vary according to how the interview goes/the experience & how much they want you & you don't hear until the job offer.

ohnonotgmail · 15-06-2016 04:36PM

DSN wrote: »

Do you not have to put your current / last salary or your min salary on your CV? Surely that's an indicator to an interviewer of what you aiming for. I agree companies should state a range up front though I know lots don't!!! Over here they play their cards close to their chest & salaries vary according to how the interview goes/the experience & how much they want you & you don't hear until the job offer.

absolutely not. i wouldnt even tell a prospective employer what i was currently earning. i would tell them what i expected to earn though.

Sapphire · 15-06-2016 07:49PM

DSN wrote: »

Do you not have to put your current / last salary or your min salary on your CV? Surely that's an indicator to an interviewer of what you aiming for. I agree companies should state a range up front though I know lots don't!!! Over here they play their cards close to their chest & salaries vary according to how the interview goes/the experience & how much they want you & you don't hear until the job offer.

Nope. I've never seen a salary on a CV. The only indication that an employer would have of your former salary is from your P45 from the previous position. So if you blagged your way into a far better paid job by pretending you were on more, Revenue can issue you with the relevant tax details that your employer needs without disclosing your previous salary information. (or they used to do this anyway)

Irish_Elect_Eng · 15-06-2016 10:45PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

absolutely not. i wouldnt even tell a prospective employer what i was currently earning. i would tell them what i expected to earn though.

Negotiation 101 is very clear on this point, the first person to name a figure is weakest in the discussion. Taking all the other variable out of the equation, you want to maximize the salary that you agree on.

If asked what you want reply with a variation on the theme of " a competitive salary that takes into account my qualifications and experience, what is the salary range for the position?." Then when they name the range, for eample 50-60 if it is acceptable, quote a range that overlaps their range starting at the top end of your range, for example 58-62 but making it clear that you can negotiate based on the full benefits package.

Some Good Advice Here

ohnonotgmail · 15-06-2016 10:57PM

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

Negotiation 101 is very clear on this point, the first person to name a figure is weakest in the discussion. Taking all the other variable out of the equation, you want to maximize the salary that you agree on.

If asked what you want reply with a variation on the theme of " a competitive salary that takes into account my qualifications and experience, what is the salary range for the position?." Then when they name the range, for eample 50-60 if it is acceptable, quote a range that overlaps their range starting at the top end of your range, for example 58-62 but making it clear that you can negotiate based on the full benefits package.

Some Good Advice Here

As i said earlier i wouldnt even be talking to a a prospective employer unless i knew what the salary range on offer was.

road_high · 15-06-2016 11:53PM

kevohmsford wrote: »

Personally I don't see the point of going through the whole interview process only to find out the position is not paying what you expected.

This...been having a look around lately and seen the odd interesting role but salary and package wise I'd be the same as where I am now. Absolutely no point in going these roles and wasting my time and theirs. I always ask at application/speculation stage- I'm not doing it for the charity or love of the job- seems to be this particularly Irish syndrome of "you can't discuss money", possibly stretches back to years and years ago when people were lucky to have a job and that psyche is still there.
To me it's effectively a business transaction- selling yourself and your skills for a certain fee.

LirW · 16-06-2016 02:24PM

OP here.

Thanks for any input here, after the last interview I cleared my mind and decided not to bother with this company, it was a very badly planned interview on their behalf and I made a pretty bad experience in the past with a company not being upfront with it.
Had a second round interview today with another company, they've been pretty upfront about the package and salary range in general and offer me even a tad more than I expected. Couldn't complain about that position, fingers crossed.

In the regard of not being able to discuss money: In my home country it's mandatory to name the minimum salary in the description. Lots of companies weren't happy about that (we do not have an hourly minimum wage but contracts for every field that names a minimum salary per month and they are quite low). In specific field a lot of companies still avoid numbers because you have mainly foreigners applying and this is unfortunately a blind spot.

I personally do share the general thought of "I don't wanna waste my time". When you bring certain experience even when you're young, you don't want to work for free just because you're young and desperate and a foreigner. I feel very sorry for every expat that has to work for low numbers because they're scared of not finding anything - been there done that. It's shameful that big and well-known companies have this target group (young, expat, very good education, desperate of finding a job) and take full advantage of it (Just saying, Digital Account management rolls with insane profiles, they offer you 26k and once they make you this offer you got told to work as a contractor, career opportunities blah blah, you're actually not even employed with them but with an agency you've never heard of before and in the end they pay you 24k). Not here in Ireland only but it's the same everywhere honestly.

Wanderer2010 · 16-06-2016 04:44PM

Reading some of the replies in this thread, there seems to be a massive presumption that employees in highly-skilled jobs who have to, for whatever reason, move jobs or change position, have these inbuilt negotiating skills and know exactly what to say when questioned about salary and have the ability to predict what will be said and the most intelligent replies! Such cloak and dagger skills are not always there.
Recruiters and Interviewers are often trained very well in the interview process and they will tailor this process to deal with a range of clients-say, a graduate fresh out of college in the recession is going to be nervous being interviewed by 3 stern-looking managerial types and is very unlikely to be confident enough to say "I know my degree gives me a worth of 28000 a year", and instead will likely snap up any job offer that is thrown at them, which of course will be the lower end, and all because they lack the knowledge and experience to question the salary range.
Similarly, a highly trained electronic engineer who has just been made redundant after 15 years, has poor interview experience and still has a young family to support is so grateful that he may accept a job 10-20k below his worth simply because skilled interviewers have talked him or her into believing he should be grateful for this job and all the extra work on offer..
Confidence isn't enough. I agree with some of the replies that interviewees should give re: salary but I would advise the OP to book an appointment with a reputable career coach or recruitment consultant and arm yourself with facts then do some research on market salaries so you are better informed next time. Good luck!

Is dodging the salary question a common thing here?

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