IOFFL on Newstalk with David McWilliams

Dangger · 09-06-2003 11:36am #1

IrelandOffline will be taking part in David McWilliams' morning radio program at 8:40 tomorrow (Tuesday 10th June) on Newstalk 106fm to discuss Ireland's broadband deficit.

Eircom and Esat will both have speakers in studio also.

nahdoic · 09-06-2003 11:49am

Excellent. Dave McWilliams sometimes seems like the only person in the media who really has his head firmly screwed on.

And he got a representative from esat and eircom, as well as IOFFL. The only time i remember that ever happening before was at IOFFL's net imperative.

Can't wait, should be a good show.

Paddy20 · 09-06-2003 11:53am

Excellanto!, and Eircom are actually going to have a real life spokesperson in attendance to "Face the music!" Brillianto!.

Say no more?..

Paddy20.

eth0_ · 09-06-2003 12:01pm

Do you know who the speakers will be from the telco's?

nahdoic · 09-06-2003 12:10pm

Well we know it can't be Soula Evans, thank the heavens for that.

SkepticOne · 09-06-2003 12:32pm

I would almost pay for Soula Evans to fly back from Greece. It would be entertaining to hear her dealt with by McWilliams. The only thing is you would need to make sure she got on the plane back to Greece.

dahamsta · 09-06-2003 12:36pm

It might be a bit early to be speculating, but there seems to be a slight change of tack with Eircom PR in the last week or two. In the last few months, every piece I've read that covered Eircom adversely to any significant degree has resulted in an absolute refusal to comment -- no rebuttals, no denials, just flat refusals.

I was a little surprised last week to see a couple of clear rebuttals and denials, but I thought this was just an errant flunkie slipping the leash for a few minutes, and we'd be back to the Schtum, Schtum party line before we knew it. This changes things though, it seems now that it's an intentional change of tactics.

Dave, I'm holding my breath and crossing every appendage I have available. You have an opportunity here to tear both Eircom /and/ EsatBT apart for their anti-competitive behaviour. Don't rely on McWilliams, rip them to pieces. Make them look like the greedy, arrogant pricks that they are.

No pressure like.

By the way, make sure you get the name of the Eircom PR hack, so I can set up a website soonest.

adam

DeVore · 09-06-2003 12:38pm

Can someone make sure to digitise it? I'm not going to be listening to the radio at 8:40

DeV.

SkepticOne · 09-06-2003 12:41pm

I will try and digitise it. I've done it before off newstalk streams.

shinzon · 09-06-2003 12:58pm

Can you call into this program, can someone give me the number of this radio statio and ill certainly help dannger tear them apart

Regards
Shin

And i mean this theyve fed me around for so long bout time i talked to them about it

eth0_ · 09-06-2003 1:12pm

Originally posted by shinzon
Can you call into this program, can someone give me the number of this radio statio and ill certainly help dannger tear them apart
...
And i mean this theyve fed me around for so long bout time i talked to them about it

Shin, is it beyond your capacity to just go to http://www.newstalk106.ie/ and see for yourself?

IIRC, your problem with getting DSL is that you don't live near an exchange? How are Eircom/Esat/Netsource responsible for the limitations of DSL technology?

shinzon · 09-06-2003 1:17pm

Originally posted by eth0_
Shin, is it beyond your capacity to just go to http://www.newstalk106.ie/ and see for yourself?

IIRC, your problem with getting DSL is that you don't live near an exchange? How are Eircom/Esat/Netsource responsible for the limitations of DSL technology?

jesus etho and you tell me to read, go back over all my posts please and do be a little more informed next time you spout off drivel like that, i live half a mile from the exchange

Regards

Shin

Valentia · 09-06-2003 1:34pm

'Tis an awful pity nobody listens to Newstalk

eth0_ · 09-06-2003 1:41pm

Originally posted by shinzon
jesus etho and you tell me to read,

I told you to go to the newstalk website and get their phone number yerself man...

go back over all my posts please and do be a little more informed next time you spout off drivel like that, i live half a mile from the exchange

Erm...perhaps you missed the part where I said "IIRC"....no need to be so touchy....it's only the internet

Dangger · 09-06-2003 2:02pm

All this talk of "tearing them apart" eh?

I'd be happier to have a well informed debate and win outright. I won't be ranting on air and I'm not looking to loose my head on this. I'm happy to see that Eircom are finally taking part in the debate again after such a prolonged absence.

I can of course discuss the despair and rage felt by countless Irish Internet users (business and residential) after being taken for a ride with prohibitive Internet access costs and snail like access speeds in this country for the past 4 years..........

The reasons are pretty clear. Eircom's recent behaviour makes it all the clearer.

We've luckily had many on air discussions and from experience, on the day a lot depends on the line of questioning and how much mike time the presenter gives to each guest. So lets wait and see.

dahamsta · 09-06-2003 2:27pm

Don't think I said anything about ranting... did I... no, I don't think I did. Hmmm...

Eircom, and Esat, have lied to the Irish public and the Irish government for years now. This is your first opportunity in about two years to put them in their place and show them up for the liars and cheats that they are. You can "tear them apart" without having to lower yourself to their tactics.

adam

DeVore · 09-06-2003 2:32pm

Informed debate is harder to sidestep then a loony ranting.

You go Dangger ... this is your turf.

DeV. (who'd probably brain someone with the mic mid-interview

)

Dangger · 09-06-2003 2:38pm

Sorry, I never said anyone suggested ranting.

Your right though Adam. It is an excellent opportunity

, I'll do my best.

MDR · 09-06-2003 2:45pm

My only advice is this.

Have a brandy before you go in, and speak slow and simply.
Tell the truth as we see it.

DeVore · 09-06-2003 3:00pm

...and if that doesnt work strap a load of hotdogs to your chest inside your coat. Stand up suddenly shouting "Allah Alakbar!!" and dive accross the desk at the PR Bunny...

Ok, it wont further our cause but damn is would make me laugh

Seriously though, good luck tomorrow.

DeV.

flav0rflav · 09-06-2003 3:05pm

I'd suggest poking around at what their business strategy is. Evidence would point to a stall, stall, stall, scenario. Ask them if that is the best they can do to run a major telco, and how long they see it lasting.

dahamsta · 09-06-2003 3:19pm

Originally posted by DeVore
...and if that doesnt work strap a load of hotdogs to your chest inside your coat. Stand up suddenly shouting "Allah Alakbar!!" and dive accross the desk at the PR Bunny...

ROFL

Careful now DeV, they've chickened out over less...

adam

DeVore · 09-06-2003 3:53pm

ok, so seriously I'd like to see certain things addressed:

1. Contention and their wholesale offerings.

2. Service levels to their 3-rd party buyers (like Netsource who are blaming them for a lot of problems).

3. Inconsistant test results for ADSL.

I can think of others but my brain is currently swiss cheese...

DeV.

SkepticOne · 09-06-2003 3:59pm

Originally posted by DeVore
ok, so seriously I'd like to see certain things addressed:

1. Contention and their wholesale offerings.

2. Service levels to their 3-rd party buyers (like Netsource who are blaming them for a lot of problems).

3. Inconsistant test results for ADSL.

4. Price?

MDR · 09-06-2003 4:09pm

512 kbits \ 48 users \ 8bits (in a byte) != crap bandwidth.
I would agree with everything Dev said except for the whole contention thing, its definitely a big white elephant and far to techy for this sort of discussion.

Keep it very simple,
1. Eircom is trying to maintain its massive dialup income, ergo it fought flat-rate tooth and nail.
2. Eircom is trying to stiffle competition in the marketplace through over priced LLU.
3. Eircom is very inefficent, is massively overstaffed, and has a huge dept to pay off, this is be done through increases in prices.
4. Eircom rates for wholesale bitstream service is the most expensive in Europe.
5. Eircom's line rental are the most expensive in Europe.
6. Eircom's promotes lies about building demand through killer application etc, even though it has been clearily demonstrated in nearily every other european country that if you build it they will come (and of course price it reasonably)..
7. Eircom's policies are costing investment in Ireland, jobs are being lost, Eircom doesn't give a crap about Ireland.

1. Esat's why can't you offer cheaper internet using

A. Your wireless license
B. The exchanges they DSL enabled with your own equipment. (not mention the grant they got to do this).

2. Is it Esat's intention to actively promote this duopoly ?

DeVore · 09-06-2003 4:27pm

Aye, nail esat and if they squirm and point at an inability to compete, then follow the white rabbit back to the government and see who is willing to take the blame.

My tack would be: Clearly Ireland is not getting the BB service is deserves and that the public want. So.... Who's fault is this? Eh Lads?

DeV

MDR · 09-06-2003 4:35pm

Oh yeah,
before I forget,

if they try to use population distribution as excuse for being over staffed, point out finland and that damn employees per line statistic ... where do I get that again ?

flav0rflav · 09-06-2003 4:45pm

If "contention ratio" is too much of a brain full, just say it has poor "quality", and if pushed just say it's spread out between 48 people. no?

spongebob · 09-06-2003 5:24pm

Originally posted by MDR
Oh yeah,
before I forget,

if they try to use population distribution as excuse for being over staffed, point out finland and that damn employees per line statistic ... where do I get that again ?

Would that be pop per KM2 and line rental being a lot lower in Sweden and Finland

search for my posts with Sweden and Finland . In the cause of Sweden , Finland and Ireland, roughly half the population of each lives in the 2 largest towns combined.

M

SkepticOne · 09-06-2003 5:49pm

Originally posted by flav0rflav
I'd suggest poking around at what their business strategy is.

I agree and I'd suggest the use of a long stick for this purpose. Things might get messy.

eth0_ · 10-06-2003 7:57am

Well well, a no-show from Eircom! VERY poor form there. Nice to see IBB had a rep there, it's just a pity that David McWilliams is so ill-informed about what broadband is!

DeVore · 10-06-2003 8:04am

yeah I cant believe that Eircom simply didnt bother their holes...

Was there any excuse given? Garda Suicide Hotdog Warnings?

DeV.

flamegrill · 10-06-2003 8:09am

Originally posted by DeVore
yeah I cant believe that Eircom simply didnt bother their holes...

Was there any excuse given? Garda Suicide Hotdog Warnings?

DeV.

ROFL, and with that my laptop battery dies

Fair play to David, he sounded good, i got most of it over the web :-), on 56k broadband as eircom would have it if they could hehe

Paul

dieselfreak · 10-06-2003 8:18am

Well I must say i laughed out loud when I heard that Eircom hadn't even bothered to show for the debate..

But I expect nothing less from that spinless bunch of to**ers.

I really hope that they continue to bury their heads in the sand, and wireless technologies and lean fast moving WISP's eat them up.

Cork · 10-06-2003 8:29am

Well, put another way Eircom are not the Ryanair of the telecoms sector.

It will only change with the threat and reality of competition.

flav0rflav · 10-06-2003 8:38am

Nice one David. I thought it went well.

McWilliams did know his stuff, although a bit surprised with his off the cuff remark about no money to be made in his house?

Esat woman seemed nervous on tech issues. Was there just to advertise, but that is at least more than eircom did.

It's unfortunate these discussions have to cover the basics before getting to the substance. But, I suppose that just highlights the fact we're behind.

Good overall.

[edit]

Why did the esat person keep mentioning the eircom reselling? Are they lining up a get-out clause? A pass the buck wide receiver? (just the sceptic in me)

viking · 10-06-2003 8:44am

Anyone manage to grab it in mp3?...SkepticOne?

viking

eth0_ · 10-06-2003 8:50am

Originally posted by flav0rflav

McWilliams did know his stuff, although a bit surprised with his off the cuff remark about no money to be made in his house?

Know his stuff? What? He didn't even understand the basic concept of broadband and half the interview was spent making an analogy of cars on a motorway to help him understand! He even called himself a luddite!

I had been expecting more debate tbh, but what can you expect when they gave this a ten minute slot...

flav0rflav · 10-06-2003 8:59am

McWilliams himself brought up the motorway analogy. He gave the air of not being fully with it, but that was to facilitate the interview process.

DeVore · 10-06-2003 8:59am

He has to. His listeners are luddites and he's their representative.

Still would like to know if Eircom gave any reason for their last second bail.

DeV.

SkepticOne · 10-06-2003 9:00am

Originally posted by viking
Anyone manage to grab it in mp3?...SkepticOne?

viking

Sorry, no.

Dangger · 10-06-2003 9:36am

I was most dissapointed Eircom were a no show, although I wasn't that surprised! I think it was important that David McWilliams passed comment on it from at the start. Eircom did say that they *may* phone in with comments afterwards however!

You can't expect presenters to be as clued in as you'd like. It's not a very interesting subject for the masses! Never the less David said it was a subject that had genereated an awful lot of feed back both during and after the piece and on the previous day when it was mentioned they would be covering it. He also confirmed that it is something he wants to investigate further. He's got his own hard copy of our recent presentation to the Oireacthtas committee to mull over in the mean time.

It's inevitable that I get asked to comment on the technologies. People have suggested in the past that we should be able to do more to counter this but radio does not work like that. These questions are asked for the benefit of the listeners. You don't want your; listeners turning off faced with something incomprehensible.

Companies present during such discussion will always push their products on air, a skilled presenter can spot the sell and choose to give them their alloted time or take the piece somewhere else.

I've said before and people may or may not agree with me but it's vital to get these radio slots and get the message out further and further. We do get the opportunity to go into much more detailed discussions, luckily at high levels such as the recent Oireachtas hearing. These are the opportunites for us to go on public record and rasie the flag on these complex issues.

eth0_ · 10-06-2003 10:33am

Originally posted by Dangger

You can't expect presenters to be as clued in as you'd like.

The man's a journalist, it's his job to inform himself and do his research

It would have been nice if there'd been time for a phone in, although I know that show is pretty fast moving as regards topics. But you did well Dangger!

Dangger · 10-06-2003 10:42am

Thank you. Okay I'll rephrase it a little!

You can't expect presenters to be as clued in as you'd like all of the time!

I'm pretty sure the next time he'll be more up to speed, as he confirmed he would like to do some further coverage.

Paddy20 · 10-06-2003 11:17am

Why is it that I am not in the least surprised at Eircoms no show. They are simply behaving like a frightened rat facing its own self inflicted extinction!. How sad?..

Paddy20.

SkepticOne · 10-06-2003 12:20pm

Originally posted by Paddy20
Why is it that I am not in the least surprised at Eircoms no show. They are simply behaving like a frightened rat facing its own self inflicted extinction!. How sad?..

Eircom's argument is: "Can I have some money now?"

DeVore · 10-06-2003 3:05pm

Skeptic can you PLEASE not do that while I'm drinking coffee! Now I have to clean my keyboard

DeV.

ColinM · 10-06-2003 8:18pm

Damn - I missed it this morning, and I listen to David McWilliams almost every morning (after Gift Grub on TodayFM of course!). Did no one record it? If anyone did could you upload it somewhere please? I would have loved to hear it.

p2p · 10-06-2003 11:14pm

^^ Moi aussi

IOFFL on Newstalk with David McWilliams

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