Today I joined the PDs,why you may ask?

mrangry

Last September I was given a pledge card from the youth branch of the PDs in Trinity.

I kept this card so I could write into Mary Harney and the papers demanding to know why she hadnt stuck by here promise.

As of yesterdays decision I submitted my application to join the PDs this morning.

I may not agree with all of their policies or like some of their TDs,but in the end they kept to their promise they made to me last September.

Which makes them more effective than those wasters in USI!

Sparks

Would it be too much to ask what the specific promise was?

mrangry

That the PDs would not support third level fees.

Borzoi

And how much were your 'registration charges' this year?

Chaos-Engine

Originally posted by Borzoi
And how much were your 'registration charges' this year?

And now that the grant has gone up. Watch the registration fee for next year double at the very least... ummm €1000 ... nearly a tutition fee

Thank god i'm on a grant

ednwireland

what about the promise of being a watchdog (or is that a lapdog of FF) haven't seen much evidence of them curbing second term excesses in spending or not taking the significant pay rise they awarded themselves.

I personally think the PD's are a complete waste of space whose members are full of their own self importance who would never get a cabinet seat in a large party they are as incompetent as the rest of FF (who by the way they may as well be a part of)

anyway third level fees is on the back burner don't think it won't be brought in by some other stealthier means (which is the PD's way)

if you beleive in no society, no healthcare, no education, no infrastructure unless you can afford to pay for t go ahead throw your money at the pd/ff party

Trebor

Originally posted by ednwireland
if you beleive in no society, no healthcare, no education, no infrastructure unless you can afford to pay for t go ahead throw your money at the pd/ff party

we do pay for it throgh taxes, the problem is we are not getting value for money. we can't just keep throwing money at a problem and hope it goes away. we have to stop with this mentality of "lets do a study for the next x years" and actually DO something.

ReefBreak

I voted for the PDs the last time and I would vote for them again in the next general election. The fact that most political parties have either adopted most of the core PD values or are either too scared to oppose these values is very telling.

These included...
A low tax base, for individuals and companies, resulted in huge inward investment, and a massive drop in unemployment from 20% in 93 to 4% today.
Attempts to eliminate the monopolies and cartels in Ireland, and to bring in a more enterprising, free market culure. Crikey, this must have been galling for the far-left. But, I can get a taxi in 5 minutes now. Nuff said.

Also, the PDs were the only party to really criticise Sinn Fein and attempt expose them for what they really are: power-hungry marxists with little or no knowledge of what it takes to run an ecomony. Sinn Fein in government would result in economic disaster for everyone.

dathi1

I thought Harney and Co would have done a a better Job so far as deregulation of communications and transport ect. But they're getting to be more like the Lib Dems in Britain. Their priorities seem to be more in favour of IBEC and not small businesses.
We need a proper pro business party in Ireland and one that's not obsessed with neo liberal politics.

dathi1

But, I can get a taxi in 5 minutes now. Nuff said.

It was the courts that gave the outcome to your Taxi service not the PDs.

hallelujajordan

Originally posted by ReefBreak
culure. Crikey, this must have been galling for the far-left. But, I can get a taxi in 5 minutes now. Nuff said.

Although the chance of you getting mugged or raped in said TAXI may have increased quite significantly !

Back on topic, the PD move to block the reintroduction of college fees serves to do nothing other than to keep the really wealthy, really wealthy . . . it will not improve access to college places for the less well off.

My problem with last weeks farce was that it was played out in the media. Dempsey never even got a chance to put a proposal to cabinet before it was shot down . . . the PD's flexed their muscle too early and I'm sure Bertie is none too happy . . . in my view, this does not bode well for the 5-year survival prospects of the current administration.

Victor

Originally posted by hallelujajordan
Although the chance of you getting mugged or raped in said TAXI may have increased quite significantly !

Now, now, complaints about taxi drivers are up 20%, but the number of drivers is up 30%.

However, there are ~10,000 Gardaí, but 12,000 being paid .....?!?!??!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Sparks

Dave,
Your last sentence points out some of the more interesting failures of the PDs. You have a PD minister for justice - but you've got an incredibly corrupt police force, a record level of violent crime on the streets, and the biggest steps that McDowell seems to take are towards asylum seekers.
Plus, I haven't seen the PD's acting on the one main campaign position that they took during the election - namely acting as a watchdog on FF. Look at their actions in relation to Shannon (where they ignored the largest civil protest in the history of the state) and the amendment to the FOI act.

Frankly, I'm unimpressed with them.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by dathi1
It was the courts that gave the outcome to your Taxi service not the PDs.

You're wrong. IN fact, say what you just said to the Taxi "PD = Politilically Dead" Drivers. Bobby Molloy had the option to save their asses, but ended up doing the right thing.

SCULLY

Originally posted by daveirl
Yes they ignored the Shannon thing, but that was their perogative.

Interesting - I always thought that politicians were meant to act on behalf of the public.....

ReefBreak

Originally posted by SCULLY
Interesting - I always thought that politicians were meant to act on behalf of the public.....

Check the recent Irish Times survey regarding US use of Shannon and you might find that they were indeed acting on behalf of the public. There may have been 100,000 on the streets, but the majority were Sinn Féin Hypocrites, Labour and Socialists (of various guises). I don't think you'd have found that many PD voters.

Cork

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Check the recent Irish Times survey regarding US use of Shannon and you might find that they were indeed acting on behalf of the public. There may have been 100,000 on the streets, but the majority were Sinn Féin Hypocrites, Labour and Socialists (of various guises). I don't think you'd have found that many PD voters.

There has been a ramatic change in peoples mindas about the use of Shannon according to a recent Irish Times openion poll.

People like trheir low taxes and their PRSAs & SSIAs. I would even put down a marker that this government will get re-elected.

Mary Harney is a decent woman. The opposition are still harping on about her use of the government jet.

The opposition are only grasping at straws. Let us not forget - the socialists did not introduce the mimimum wage or remove many low earners from the tax net.

It it is the socialists who go affer the middle class vote. It is all pretty sad.

dathi1

I agree with the above regarding low taxes and unemployment...but with stealth taxes, user fees and exorbitant rents most people are paying a high price to be "employed".

You're wrong. IN fact, say what you just said to the Taxi "PD = Politilically Dead" Drivers. Bobby Molloy had the option to save their asses, but ended up doing the right thing.

reef expand on this I dont know what you mean?

Von

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Check the recent Irish Times survey regarding US use of Shannon and you might find that they were indeed acting on behalf of the public. There may have been 100,000 on the streets, but the majority were Sinn Féin Hypocrites, Labour and Socialists (of various guises). I don't think you'd have found that many PD voters.

Rrrrrubbish. For (maybe) the last time, the war was not (or is not - is it over yet?) a left/right issue.

From a Gallup poll here

If military action goes ahead against Iraq, should your country support this action?

Country Yes No
Finland 5% 79%
Spain 16% 73%
Germany 24% 71%
Ireland 26% 69%
L'bourg 32% 62%
France 29% 61%
Portugal 37% 55%
N'lands 35% 52%
Denmark 42% 51%
UK 44% 41%

So of the countries listed, only the UK, which by the way has a socialist government, had a majority which supported war. And the only other European country I could think of that also supported the war was mighty Romania.

And the catholic church was agin it. Some would say that the pope's attitudes to women, nonces, liberals, heretics etc etc mark him out as something of a right winger. Arguable. But like, ever been to the vatican?? An anarcho-marxist squat it most definitely is not.

Meanwhile, Liz O'Donnell TD (of the PeeDees) sent me a letter and a copy of her April 2nd Dail speech which seemed to indicate that she did think that the war was not justified.

The humanitarian arena is where we have credibility in international affairs. We are a non-aligned, traditionally neutral country. Our tradition is very strongly and unequivocally one which highlights the peaceful settlement of international disputes which upholds the primacy of the United Nations and which places development, justice and human rights central to our foreign policy.
[.......]
The jingoistic media coverage from the US networks is quite an offence to thinking people. As it develops and as the civilian casualties mount many people are reduced to head hanging despair. Not only for the loss of life but for the perceived dearth of intelligent discourse at the highest level in the United States.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Von
Rrrrrubbish. For (maybe) the last time, the war was not (or is not - is it over yet?) a left/right issue.

...

Meanwhile, Liz O'Donnell TD (of the PeeDees) sent me a letter and a copy of her April 2nd Dail speech which seemed to indicate that she did think that the war was justified.

Exactly what was rubbish? I made 3 statements: The Irish Times survey, the political nature of the 100,000 marchers (and I did go down to watch the march) and the fact that PD voters were probably few and far between that day. Your Liz O'Donnell letter only helps to prove my last point about the PDs.

Von

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Your Liz O'Donnell letter only helps to prove my last point about the PDs.

Not justified.

ReefBreak

Apologies, read it wrong.

Sparks

Originally posted by daveirl
Complete fabrication. Let's take today for example, loads of new measure to combat the drink problem and the associated street violence.

Not a complete fabrication. The measures taken to combat drinking are not by any means realistic, as has been covered on the board already. Likewise for street violence.

Bertie Bowl? College Fees?

Both of which were not shot down thanks to the PD's efforts, but due to FF realising that they could not push through either project without seriously affecting the votes of the core demographic that FF relies on - middle class voters.

Now you're contradicting yourself. Neither of these were campaign issues.

Both were the same campaign issue. The PD stated that they would act as a watchdog on FF. When FF made their decisions regarding those issues, they did so over public protest. The PD's job as watchdog is supposedly to act in the public's interest. So I don't see why it's a contradiction.

Yes they ignored the Shannon thing, but that was their perogative.

They do not have such a perogative. They are a group of representatives in a representative democracy. They do not have the right to ride roughshod over public wishes.

Do you think political parties should be driven mainly by the whim of the public? I don't.

Doesn't matter what you think, that's the way the system is meant to operate.

If people have a big problem with Shannon [1] they can vote Green or something next time.

I think that's pretty much what's going to happen - though odds are it won't be Green, it'll just be "anyone but FF".

Which they don't. Only 4% of people stated Neutrality as an election issue in the recent Irish Times Poll.

You should read the article in yesterday's times that analysed that poll (which was carried out by a UK company, btw - can you say bias? ).

Reefbreak,

Check the recent Irish Times survey regarding US use of Shannon and you might find that they were indeed acting on behalf of the public. There may have been 100,000 on the streets, but the majority were Sinn Féin Hypocrites, Labour and Socialists (of various guises). I don't think you'd have found that many PD voters.

Go on. Say they were anti-american while you're at it why don't you?

bonkey

Originally posted by daveirl
Only 4% of people stated Neutrality as an election issue in the recent Irish Times Poll.

Sure....but when was any election fought over issues that were a year or two "old"? Our neutrality may not be an issue in the Times today, but I guarantee you that if the government were facing an election when all of this was happening, either they would have bowed to public pressure faster than a very very fast thing, or they would have lost massively in the election.

As with all of these issues, people are passionate about it when its current, and generally feel they have something else more current to be passionate about when its not current.

The government know this - so they can blithely ignore public opinion as long as they know their seats are secure for longer than the issue is expected to remain current. Thats what we saw, and the 4% figure only backs that up.

jc

Cork

Originally posted by dathi1
I agree with the above regarding low taxes and unemployment...but with stealth taxes, user fees and exorbitant rents most people are paying a high price to be "employed".

I saw an ad in a UK paper on Sunday stating the price of a product was 63p. In the shops yesterday in Ireland - it is retailing at 1.30 euro.

The differance is down to a rip off culture. Companies apply for price increases to cover their own serious inefficencys.

The PDs must try and encourage cut price competion. There is a savere lack of competion in Ireland. The PDs have a market. It is not too differant to the middle class voters Rabbitte is trying to attract.

But the PDs are in government. They can try an accomplish things. I personally would not vote for the PDs but I admire Mary Harney.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Von

Originally posted by ReefBreak
The Irish Times survey,

Entirely separate issue surely.

the political nature of the 100,000 marchers (and I did go down to watch the march) [

Unless people had party banners or placards, and most as far as I could see did not, I thought it'd be impossible to work out 100,000 people's political allegiances just by gawping at them for a second or two, but I bow to your amazing psychic powers. Are you autistic??

and the fact that PD voters were probably few and far between that day.

Since we're in the realm of insupportable generalisations, I'd point out that PD voters can't go out during the day. Fact. Because they all suffer from the same malady as this fellow.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Von

Entirely separate issue surely.


Unless people had party banners or placards, and most as far as I could see did not, I thought it'd be impossible to work out 100,000 people's political allegiances just by gawping at them for a second or two, but I bow to your amazing psychic powers. Are you autistic??

Sorry, what? Different issue? Exactly how? It was a reponse to allegations that the Govt weren't acting on behalf of the public. According to the survery, they were acting on behalf of the public. Deal with it. As for the march, if you can seriously sit there and tell me it wasn't dominated by the left, then you're deluded. There were some of right-wing people of course - mostly extreme right, plus some clergy. But without a doubt, the most common placard was the Sinn Fein Hypocrite card, seconded by trade unions, labour and the various socialist loons - I watched the march for an hour and a half (not 2 seconds) at the bottom of Dame St across from Trinity (and later from a pub window). Anyway, to bring this back on topic, I would love to see a breakdown of political party views on Shannon, I would gamble my life-savings that the majority of PDs voters supported the use of shannon by the US. I may be guessing, but so be it.

Johnmb

Well I'm one former PD voter who won't be giving them my vote again. I was, and still am, against the use of Shannon, which is one very big reason for them losing my vote. Another big reason is their treatment of the FOI Act. I also voted for FF, something I'll not be doing again. God help those two idiots (FF TDs) if they are stupid enough to knock on my door in the run up to the next election.

bonkey

Originally posted by ReefBreak
and the fact that PD voters were probably few and far between that day.

Interesting choice of fact

jc

Von

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Sorry, what? Different issue? Exactly how? It was a reponse to allegations that the Govt weren't acting on behalf of the public. According to the survery, they were acting on behalf of the public. Deal with it. As for the march, if you can seriously sit there and tell me it wasn't dominated by the left, then you're deluded. There were some of right-wing people of course - mostly extreme right, plus some clergy. But without a doubt, the most common placard was the Sinn Fein Hypocrite card, seconded by trade unions, labour and the various socialist loons

The march was about supporting the UN and questioning the legality of invading Iraq, not Irish neutrality. Liz O'Donnell (PD TD) sez...

The humanitarian impulse has always been non-political, and non-judgmental in regard to the victims of war, civilian and even combatants. Our International systems of humanitarian relief grew out of the disaster of the 2nd. World War and they have proven remarkably robust legally and operationally. The United Nations has always been at the centre of this system and it must remain so.

Perhaps Liz represents the mainstream PD view a little more accurately than you do? And it's a bit odd that the shinners could only manage a couple of seats and the socialist loon parties could barely scrape a few hundred votes together at the election, then they could suddenly get 100,000 'supporters' from somewhere in a FF dominated city. Fascinating.

I would gamble my life-savings that the majority of PDs voters supported the use of shannon by the US.

The question was whether the use of Shannon by the US was constitutional or not. Your somewhat blinkered attitude appears to be 'I don't care about the constitution. Go USA!'. And the IT poll showed that the PD's only got 4% which places them and their spoilt tubby sub-yuppie support base squarely on the negligible lunatic fringe of Irish politics along with the Greens.

RainyDay

Bobby Molloy had the option to save their asses, but ended up doing the right thing.

Not true, Reef - Bobby Molloy had no other option but to implement the Court decision that there should be no quantitative limit on the number of taxi drivers.

The only options open to him related to the compo scheme, not the core issue of the number of drivers.

Victor

[*] Reduction of Capital Gains Tax rate from 40% to 20% has encouraged greater investment in business activity generally.
But I thought the PDs were against tax on work, why do rich wheeler-dealers pay tax at a lower rate than ordinary hard workers?

[*] Minumum wage introduced by PD Leader Mary Harney in April 2002.
At EU insistence?

[*]The old-age pension target of £100 per week on track for new target of €200 per week.
To make up for inflation

[*]Massive increase for the funding of social services – health, education and welfare.
Wasted on rich doctors.

[*]Liberalised Dublin’s taxi market.
In a chaotic manner.

Originally posted by Sparks
Both were the same campaign issue. The PD stated that they would act as a watchdog on FF. When FF made their decisions regarding those issues, they did so over public protest. The PD's job as watchdog is supposedly to act in the public's interest.

God no, they are a watchdog for their supporters.

Originally posted by Cork
I saw an ad in a UK paper on Sunday stating the price of a product was 63p. In the shops yesterday in Ireland - it is retailing at 1.30 euro. The PDs must try and encourage cut price competion. There is a savere lack of competion in Ireland. The PDs have a market. It is not too differant to the middle class voters Rabbitte is trying to attract.

They have been in government for what 6 years now and they haven't been able to get to grips with competition? And the latest news is the government is the main cause of inflation (a contributor to the phenomenon).