IQ & Intelligence

smiles

I've known several people at CTYI (and outside it) who wander through life with a superiority complexy because of their supposed level of intelligence (or high IQ)...

Does anyone here have any opinions on this...

Does having a higher IQ make you a better person?
Does going to CTYI make you a more worth citizen?

Do you believe in the multiple types of intelligence?

<< Fio >>

lordsippa

Well obviously I'm just god cause I got into CTYI. I mean it's not like there were other people there or people who just didn't hear about it or perhaps aren't that quick at filling in dots <slow wrist action>. Obviously.

The one thing I have to admit is that I do tend to get annoyed at people who take AGES catching on to what I see as a simple idea. Usually it's my fault cause I suck explaining things though so I've come to learn to be a bit more tolerant... but when they don't even take the initiative to think one step ahead themselves and can't see the solution when it's staring them in the face and is, in fact, labelled (i'm thinking here of helping people with problems in Word or some such.. y'know... aunts and the such).... well then it's just grr-ifying!

So I guess I can be a bit snobby on the ol' intellectual front. But I try not to be outwardly so. Keep the peasants happy and whatnot.

Zukustious

I don't like the whole I.Q thing. There's a lot more to being a good person than intelligence. A lot of "smart" people have no wisdom whatsoever. They see themselves as superior to those of less intellectual capability. In conclusion, I value wisom more than intelligence. Wisdom to me is more about being a good person than a smart one.

lordsippa

Yeah... y'see I don't actually judge people based on numbers they were given after doing a test. I judge people based on personal experience.

Crash

tbh anyone who doesnt get straight A's i dont talk to.

Sev

Surely anybody who's supposedly smart, is going to be tactful enough not to present such an obnoxious superiority. Intelligence must also include copping what best serves your own interests.

SOL

So what your saying is your stupid Sev ?

lordsippa

Actually Sev, what you just said was immensely ignorant. You can't judge someones intelligence based on how they view other people. Being arrogant is a trait of your personality, not your intellect. So don't look now, but your ignorance is showing...

Sev

You can't judge someones intelligence based on how they view other people.

I neither said or implied anything of the sort. I suggested that you could judge somebodys intelligence based on how they act in the presence of other people. Either way, to suggest I'm ignorant for thinking such is as much a personal opinion as was my original post.

Perhaps our definition of intelligence differs? My understanding of intelligence is as much a measure of one's overall cognitive capacity as it is their aptitude to make the best decisions in any context, whether it be social or purely analytical. The brain is a very complex organ, with many separate regions that deal with different functions. You could of course have a savant with a remarkable capacity to multiply large numbers, but is socially inept, or perhaps completely lacks spacial orientation. Obviously you cant tell strictly tell somebody's 'IQ' from their behaviour, but what Im suggesting, is that IQ is not a comprehensive measure of intelligence.

On the subjective of arrogance. One might believe themselves to be superior to everyone, but not have the need to show it. Surely confidence in oneself is the purest form of arrogance, its just an arrogance that you dont need to express. If so, I plead guilty.

Zillah

Intelligence is of course a multi faceted entity. I'll admit that sev has superior grasp of numerical and mathematical concepts than me, whereas he has no appreciation of poetry or things of a similar vein(dancing!). The reason an IQ test is so useful is because it is unbiased. For you to judge a person's intelligence by observation you must assume that both your perception and interpretation is perfect, which is unlikely.

I must come across as an unfriendly arrogant bastard to many but that doesn't mean I don't know how to befriend those people if I so choose. Perhaps it's a defence. By this logic you must therefore assume that if you dont like me it's because you have a bad personality

(I h4ve skillz)

p.pete

For me inteligence has lots of different facets, not all easily quantifiable. IQ tests measure one small part of inteligence, they totally ignore so many things that they really aren't that much use.

It's easy to quantify how good you are at maths, geometrical reasoning, grammer and all that. Things like physical inteligence, how well you can dance or play football, emotional inteligence, how well you get on with others, creativity, and lots of other things are harder to quantify.

This lack of quanifiability leads a lot of people to embrace things like IQ tests as acceptable measures of inteligence. In my opinion they only tell part of a much larger story.

GuanYin

I've thought about this, coz I test very high for IQ but I'm consistantly crap at written exams. I'd never consider myself especially intelligent but I I have a really good memory.

I can recall most things I read properly, but usually I don't fully understand something until I've recited it to someone else, or written notes on it.

I don't know where I'm going with this.... other than one day I'm sure the people I work with will find me out

Zillah

(N1 pete!) Someone else must find it funny that 'physical inteligence' firstly is spelt wrong and secondly, doesn't exist. Its just a combination of dexterity and spacial relations. 'Geometrical' relations also sounds very dodgy. Emotional 'intelligence' is more a matter of personality and demenour rather than a particular aptitude(unless your a manipulative and coniving bastard of course)

Skyeirl, you have whats known as an 'eidetic memory'(like 'photographic' but less total or visual). Your brain stores things even though you might not understand them yet. Hence why you need to process them by talking about or writing them before you properly assimilate the knowledge, rather than simply 'storing' it.

Green Hand Guy

I don't agree with the term multiple intelligences. I think it's more a case of multiple skills. I mean, physical intelligence isn't an intelligence, it's a skill.

And I have a pretty good memory too. I can remember some moments as early as when I was 1, like when I had a convulsion at 1 and 1/2. I can still remember being in hospital afterwards and my parents leaving me there. Mostly because I had nightmares about it for years after though.

Zillah

Lovely story, really

p.pete

Originally posted by phlematic
The reason an IQ test is so useful is because it is unbiased. For you to judge a person's intelligence by observation you must assume that both your perception and interpretation is perfect, which is unlikely.

I agree that IQ tests are useful because they are unbiased. Naturally it is almost impossible to gauge how good or bad we compare to one another at most things. With most things it is a case of somebodies interpretation as to who is better - which rarely amounts to something conclusive. So the IQ test provides something where everyone can sit down and answer the same questions and be given a mark based on their answers which can then be used for comparison purposes.

The IQ test is a very dangerous thing also. Due to the fact that most of our skills in life are difficult to quantify and also due to the fact that we like comparing ourselves to one another (I'm better than you:p ) the IQ test is given undue importance as to how we compare to one another. This over-inflated importance is mostly due to a void in acceptable comparisons for most of our other skill sets.

I may have spelt 'physical inteligence' wrong on my previous point, so to avoid this and to reduce it to Eddie Izzard I can refer to it as running, jumping and climbing trees. Some people are better than others at this - but it is hard to measure. Also some people are more creative than others - but it is subjective as to who produces the better paintings or the better stories. Memory is another thing that is hard to compare, as there are different kinds of memory.

There is an endless list of how we compare to one another and to hold up an IQ test and say "that one is gifted" and "that one should be put back in the oven until they're done" is ridiculous. Another point is some people test their IQ reqularly and are more familiar with the types of questions encountered. Practice makes perfect. Also some IQ tests are easier, some are shorter, some will be something else.

lordsippa

That's incredibly true. I knew a bloke who used to do IQ tests all the time (and brainteasers etc)... it's like crosswords - you get used to the kind of questions and they get really easy. It's the same reason teachers will advise you to do lots of past papers before your leaving cert. And on THAT note WHAT AM I DOING ONLINE?! <runs off to study>

Cait

Psychologist Howard Gardner identified the following distinct types of intelligence. They are listed here with respect to gifted / talented children.
1. Linguistic
Children with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles.
2. Logical-Mathematical
Children with lots of logical inteligence are interested in patterns, categories and relationships. They are drawn to arithmetic problems, strategy games and experiments.
3. Bodily-kinesthetic
These kids process knowledge through bodily sensations. They are often athletic, dancers or good at crafts such as sewing or woodworking.
4. Spatial
These children think in images and pictures. They may be fascinated with mazes or jigsaw puzzles, or spend free time drawing, building with Legos or daydreaming.
5. Musical
Musical children are always singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss. These kids are often discriminating listeners.
6. Interpersonal
Children who are leaders among their peers, who are good at communicating and who seem to understand others' feelings and motives possess interpersonal intelligence.
7. Intrapersonal
These children may be shy. They are very aware of their own feelings and are self-motivated.

SOL

unless your a manipulative and coniving bastard of course

Lol, this is interesting, do you think that everyone around you is what they appear?

5. Musical
Musical children are always singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss. These kids are often discriminating listeners.

This is not intellegence, being artistically tallented isn't intellegence unless we change what intellegence means

IMO people have tried to tried to redefine the idea of intellegence because they cant understand it, and that which you cannot understand you fear, so you must change it,
next they'll be calling weightlefters physically intelligent until the word eventually becomes so contorted that its either forgotten and becomes taboo or a new one comes along

lordsippa

nonono... it's a case of saying "look at my son the jock. he's a retard." or "look at my son the athletic intellectual. he's talented." which would you rather say?

I could bitch about the Special Olympics but it IS a good thing, if overly patronising. I mean "SPECIAL" Olympics FFS. ok it's PC but... <mumble grumble mutter etc>

p.pete

Originally posted by SOL
IMO people have tried to tried to redefine the idea of intellegence because they cant understand it, and that which you cannot understand you fear, so you must change it,

IMO there has been an effort to broaden what we consider inteligence more based on the fact that it is not as easy to pin down whether someone is inteligent as we once thought.

It is more a case of people fearing a move away from being able to do straight forward test and be given a definite answer as to whether they are inteligent or not.

If you look up the word intelligence it is to do with understanding and quickness of understanding. I know I am slow at understanding or getting some things and quicker at others. So I would consider myself to be more intelligent at some things than others. The idea of seven or more intelligences makes lots of sense to me.

Crash

Originally posted by lordsippa
I could bitch about the Special Olympics but it IS a good thing, if overly patronising. I mean "SPECIAL" Olympics FFS. ok it's PC but... <mumble grumble mutter etc>

Actually its very un-PC really. i mean, the "Special" olympics is the worst ****ing name for it, its the ultimate way to indicate segregation.

PHB

I dont really think intelligence is measurably, i think you can get a general idea, but so many factors influence it, upbringing personality etc.

I think you can really only judge someone, if you really want to, based on their achievments.

Sure anyone can say, yeah im really good at chemistry, but until you go out and become an olympic silver medalist you're not really that great are you?

Sure you can say you're great at english, but until you get a book published or win some sort of competition then are you really that good?

Sure people can be really really smart and really really lazy, but I dont think that matters at all.

Who would you rather be?
The really really smart english guy, who sits at home in his basement all day, smug in the knowledge that he is smarter than the rest.
Or the smart english guy, who worked hard and now has a book deal

And there are different types of intelligence, but I dont think physical intelligence would really come into it. Unless physical intelligence is spacial relations in different words?

This whole topic is a really funny one espically considering that the people discussing it are meant to be studying for their leaving in a couple of days /me runs back

lordsippa

Don't be silly trying to deny that there is such thing as intelligence. Let's not bs here, some people are smart, some people aren't. Some people have other talents, some people don't. Some people have nothing. Fair? No. But it's life. It doesn't balance out. And bare in mind, those who win awards are people who have been scrutinised by others, who may not be capable of understanding the SUPERB GENIUS of another candidate. And if I write wonderful literature but decide not to have it published, or if it's too controversial or some such - am I less intelligent than Roy Keane cause he's had a book published <yes, ok he didn't write it himself but he contributed>?

So... yeah. Shut it. Right?

D-Generate

Dr. Roy Keane to you.

I love the way that on the fitness forum they would be argueing that physical intelligence exists whilst on this board all seem to agree that it doesn't, I however think it does. Intelligence in my opinion is knowing how to play the rules of life, knowing what to do to suceed. Haveing an incredible I.Q is pointless if you are a waster. To me someone who has worked hard to become physically great should get the same amount of credit as someone who is very clever and has used their smartness to their advantage. From what I can see of the people on this forum, a lot of you more than likely have high I.Qs but are just plain lazy. I have a lot more respect for the person in my year who saw a career in soccer and persued it and now has a contract with a top premiership club than all those who are smart and wasteing their talents

SOL

all those who are smart and wasteing their talents

Aliminator

amen brother.
time to go get us our silvers and golds in chemistry.
of course most intelligent ppl are wasters, they died in secondary schooling long ago. all that is left is their empty party hardy shell.
physical intelligence? wtf? not understanding what u mean?
do u mean as in perception of reality and the whole 11dimenson thing, or do u mean sporty?

Barry Aldwell

Originally posted by foobar
Actually its very un-PC really. i mean, the "Special" olympics is the worst ****ing name for it, its the ultimate way to indicate segregation.

Also, all the ads, posters, etc. promoting the special olympics features only people suffring from Downs Syndrome. Don't other people participate in it? The wheelchair races I positively remember seeing in the special olymipcs, and there's probably a load of others.

Sangre

Originally posted by Barry Aldwell
Also, all the ads, posters, etc. promoting the special olympics features only people suffring from Downs Syndrome. Don't other people participate in it? The wheelchair races I positively remember seeing in the special olymipcs, and there's probably a load of others.

I thought they were in the para-olympics? Is there a diffrence?
I think the para-olympics is for the physically disabled, special is for the mentally disabled.

Btw, I think there is physical intelligence, just look at golfers/footballers etc..They are able to amazing things with their bodies, a golfer must have an amazing understanding of physics and the way the ball moves. Have you never watched some sport, seen someone doing something and just knowing no amount of practice could teach you that.

Imo thats what intelligence is, being able to do something better then someone else, even if they practice. Although you can improve your intelligence...(sorry I've explained it badly)

Also I think there is definetly linguistic intelligence.

purplepolkadot

quote:

---

5. Musical
Musical children are always singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss. These kids are often discriminating listeners.

---

those kids sound crazy, c'mon hearing noise other people don't hear, yeah...intelligent, drumming to themselves... and wtf is a discriminating listener?

weren't the special olympics called the paralympics a few years ago? (or have i gone crazy and started drumming to myself...) that was a better name. it didn't really mean anything. and don't start with latin translations because the general population probably don't know what paralympics mean, they know what 'speshal' olympics means.

(foreword: i work in a hotel)
(prologue: by dopey i just mean wankery prickish people. it has nothing to do with intelligence, unless you count cop-on and a teensy weensy little bit of assertiveness, aggressiveness or even just the cop-on to keep quiet as intelligence.)
(no offence to any dopey people, cos i know how easily you eejits take offence)

someone said earlier in the thread that they don't like it when people don't catch on and well, and just to say: I HATE DOPEY PEOPLE!!!
and i always show infinite patience and understanding towards them, without being rewarded by them finding their cop on.
and what's so frustrating is you can't correct them and point out their Often Astounding dopiness, even politely, cos god knows they take offence so easy but it's alright for them to say something really dopey and offensive to you, just because you're not dopey, and can stand up for yourself, and realise the results of saying offensive things.
dopey people get all the easy breaks.
i'm sure getting all offended by things that result from their own dopiness is their defence mechanism they use for survival.

and those people who repeat things you just say in slightly different wording cos they were all in space world and only half heard you so thought it was maybe their own original osea. and those people who do that and then claim it was Their Idea All Along. bastards.

those people who when you say 'how are you?' to their face WHILE LOOKING THEM IN THE EYES go 'how am i?!?!?!' and blink four times, and do that with every single question you ask them, even if it's 'hey john, is your name john?'. (eg. 'is my name john?!?!?!?!?)

they don't know what a SAUCER is: waitress, in her late forties (yes, that's Waitress, who does the job for a living, and hey, drinks a lot of tea, so she should KNOW) asked me what to put a toreen (metal dish thing, can't spell the word properly, that's the way you say it) on. i (going on sixteen at the time) said a d'oyled saucer. she blinked four times. i was carrying two crates of ballygowan at the time and was under physical impairment so i said 'see those saucers beside those cups...' she picked up a big plate. i said 'ah no, a Saucer'.
she moved the plate closer to my face, looking confused. i said 'y'know like a cup and saucer, like you're putting a SAUCE toreen on a SAUCER'. she still didn't get me, again showing me that she indeed knew what a plate was, and how she could move it. so i put down the ballygowan, and gave her a saucer.
she proceeded to ask me where to find the d'oyleys. i said 'in the big box there on the table that says 'D'OYLEYS'. she couldn't find it. i could see it from about fifteen feet away. she picked a dirty one off the floor about four sizes too big, wiped it on her blouse, and proceeded to earn just over twice as much per hour i do.
as i said before, dopey people get all the easy breaks, because the non-dopey people have to come to their aid and wipe up their drool, and give them their saucers.


and... /end rant.
(i'm normally a really happy bouncy person, but sometimes... *implodes*)

Sangre

You have serious issues.

nosmo

Originally posted by Sangre
You have serious issues.

You're a serious troll

Sangre

I am?

lordsippa

Nah... Nosmo's just irritable because he didn't get his cup of funky-dunk for a quick dip of the lip. (obscure quoting! yay!)

Anyway... it ain't an issue of credit and respect etc. I will often respect someone who's incredibly talented at sports because, well I ain't (but no, this doesn't mean I actually really care about most sportspeople... ain't my scene). I will respect someone who can write the most amazing music, because I love music.

But I won't call them smart unless they prove they are. This is where my "issue" is. I hate people contorting the word so that everyone is nicely talented on an even scale. WTF? Some people are smart, others are thick. Sad fact - a LOT of sportspeople aren't that incredibly smart. Same with music. Same with a hell of a lot of people in various careers. So why must we Bullsh1t around the issue saying they have "physical intelligence"... it's called being "fit" and not in the sexy way... hell, should we be calling good looking people intelligent cause they're purdy?
</rant>

D-Generate

But there is a great amount of mental effort involved in sport. You try running up a rugby pitch and avoiding tackles comeing at you, adjusting your speed so that the pass either infront or behind you, analyseing the positions of your team-mates to the left and right of you, decideing to wait till the very last second before passing the ball. That is not easy to do and that's why not everyone is good at certain sports, they just simply cannot process that information quick enough. Another example of physical intelligence would be a snooker player judgeing the angle of a shot so that he bounces the ball off the cushion to hit another ball in. I am very good at maths, especially trigonometry but I am terrible at snooker/pool even when i try applying my mathematical skills to it.
There is also musical intelligence, some people can pick out individual notes from just hearing it and replay a song after just one listening, that is near impossible for most other people.

Then again there is allways the phrase "Intelligence is a myth, competence is real"

lordsippa

But... but... "i can throw a ball well - I have co-ordination. Watch me co-ordinate"... I don't consider co-ordination intelligence. I mean OH MY GOD! I CAN ACTUALLY MANOUEVER MY PEN TO A PAGE! LOOK AT HOW SMART I AM! FFS... that's what I'm pissed at. Dumbing down what intelligence is. I mean, why can't people just admit that sportspeople are TALENTED but NOT smart (well, based entirely on their sporting merits, not me slagging off individual sportspeople). Intelligence is a talent and a gift. It's something some people excel at, and others don't. It's just that people got so fecking offended because the smart people get their own back at the asses who lord it over them in almost every way by saying "well at least we're smarter than you". Well tought sh1t. Cause some people ARE smarter than others. And being good at sports, or music, or socialising doesn't mean you're smart. You can do smart things in them... like composing a really clever opera with twists and turns and moral values all stuck together etc.

I've kinda run out of steam cause I got distracted and left the puter for a minute, but I'm sure you see my point. Unless, that is, you're too stupid too. <ah good ol' basic psychology >

Sangre

We're not talking about being smart, but being intelligent, and Im pretty sure those 7 types of intelligence are widely accept. I have heard that list quite a few times before.
Ok, so would you say being linguistic is an intelligence?

Barry Aldwell

Originally posted by lordsippa
OH MY GOD! I CAN ACTUALLY MANOUEVER MY PEN TO A PAGE! LOOK AT HOW SMART I AM!

Isn't it maneuver?
Seriously, though, I agree with that (rather long winded) rant. A lot of people consider themselves amazingly smart, but are really about as intelligent as a brick. Similarly, a lot of extremely smart people have low self esteem and consider themselves to be stupid.

lordsippa

Yeah... I just think that that list is unfounded. It's his opinion, his own view on definition which has been accepted because it's so "nice".

Oh, I don't profess to being overly knowledgable on this subject, but I am quite opinionated when I feel like it. And, let's face it, that's what half of psychology is about (and this I say from experience).

SOL

So in conclusion we need some new words?

lordsippa

Or pistols at dawn.

purplepolkadot

oooooh, can one of the new words have 'lisa' or 'reilly' in it somewhere? one for people who have to suffer because of or come to the aid of dopey people.


and i so do not have issues sangre, and i agree with nosmo; you are a troll, one of those small horned ones (and not horned in the funny juvenile way). if you were constantly marauded by dopey people, you'd understand.

Sangre

Originally posted by purplepolkadot


and i so do not have issues sangre, and i agree with nosmo; you are a troll, one of those small horned ones (and not horned in the funny juvenile way). if you were constantly marauded by dopey people, you'd understand.

Puh-lease....they're spikes actually

Anyway this thread is going around in circles.
I dont care about stupid people, people with no cop on bug me though. Or if they could do something 10 minutes ago and now they can't.

PHB

I wasn't denying intelligence exists I was saying that its not as easily measured by using 70 short anwser questions.

A question for your sven
Do you agree that being good at maths and good at english are two types of intelligence?

Seaneh

Originally posted by lordsippa
But... but... "i can throw a ball well - I have co-ordination. Watch me co-ordinate"... I don't consider co-ordination intelligence. I mean OH MY GOD! I CAN ACTUALLY MANOUEVER MY PEN TO A PAGE! LOOK AT HOW SMART I AM! FFS... that's what I'm pissed at. Dumbing down what intelligence is. I mean, why can't people just admit that sportspeople are TALENTED but NOT smart (well, based entirely on their sporting merits, not me slagging off individual sportspeople). Intelligence is a talent and a gift. It's something some people excel at, and others don't. It's just that people got so fecking offended because the smart people get their own back at the asses who lord it over them in almost every way by saying "well at least we're smarter than you". Well tought sh1t. Cause some people ARE smarter than others. And being good at sports, or music, or socialising doesn't mean you're smart. You can do smart things in them... like composing a really clever opera with twists and turns and moral values all stuck together etc.

I've kinda run out of steam cause I got distracted and left the puter for a minute, but I'm sure you see my point. Unless, that is, you're too stupid too. <ah good ol' basic psychology >

I could almost guarentee that Clarence Seedorf and Reggie Miller have a higher IQ than you.

lordsippa

To a degree of course. Your ability to comprehend mathematics to a degree of mastery whereby you can manipulate it to a desired effect is definitely a form of intelligence, same with english, for example. As I've said, if you can do that with music, then yes you are smart, but using set patterns in music to form something that sounds pretty isn't being all too brilliant is it now?

As for sports, I understand the rules of the game, I know how to play, if I practiced I'd be good at it... and yes, I wouldn't be fantastic - because my body doesn't have the natural nervous system in place to allow the proper responses needed to succeed in that game. Where is the proof that I lack intelligence? Where is the proof that I need more than a basic intelligence to do well?

My view of intelligence is the ability to comprehend things and manipulate knowledge etc. I don't consider knowing things intelligence <although it can be a sign of it - though not always>, nor do people who merely use formulae to achieve their results impress me as intellectuals <although if they show some ingenuity in how they use them that would be a sign of intelligence>.

But then again, that's only my opinion. As valid as any other, but still only an opinion. Except it's a damn sight more rational than the "physical intelligence" one.

lordsippa

Oh and leave Sangre alone. He's just arguing a point for a larf, or so I figure.

[edit] In better mood now, but still Gandalf/Sean personal digs will earn you quiet mutterings behind your back from me. Probably nothing else but still... I can mutter quite sinisterly... while you sleep... Yeah... [/edit]

Seaneh

So what you are really saying is that academics are not a sure measure for intelligence?

In that case I would agree with you 100%.

(this was aimed at the post before your last one)



And I just want to say that I wasn't having a go at you, but what I said is true.

Sev

Well.. personally I hate English, that is the English leaving cert course anyway, and I cant stand poetry especially. And yes Gary, I find dancing equally stupid. It is as you have so neatly put before, poetry in motion.

But.. that doesnt mean that I lack the cognitive capacity to comprehend it, or that I have the intellectual superiority to transcend it. It just means that I dont like it. It's not my cup of tea. However I'm sure if I could suspend the inhibition or realisation to the fact that what I'm doing is so goddamn stupid, then with some practice, I could swiftly become quite the dancer. Likewise, if I actually had a passion for poetry, and had an active interest to persue it's study, I'm sure that I could become quite the poet.

Also.. after spending some time recently watching the crucible on the telly, I have to agree, snooker players seem quite the smartey men. As for golfers, the professionals do demonstrate a great deal of spacial and analytical ability to guage distances, judge the wind and read the lie of the land and the slopes of the greens.

But my question is... that regardless of your intelligence (provided it's within reason), is it possible to reach the level of these professional snooker players and golfers simply with lots and lots of sheer dedication and constant practice?

Sev

Also.. the ability for a golfer, to accurately judge the power needed to roll up to the lip and sink a 100 foot putt, and in turn the ability to apply this power through one's arms with such subtle and controlled motion. Surely this is governed in some way by intelligence?

PHB

Personally I'm a firm believer if you are above a base intelligence you can do anything you set your mind to.

But the whole point is this is that people are barely able to define intelligence, yet this IQ tests measure them in 70 short anwser questions

I agree with Sven to an extent, that intelligence if your ability to adapt to situations [over simplification i know] but I certainly don't think its a way of measurly it anyway accuratly.

And for yey who think that academic achievements dont nessacarily reflect intelligence perhaps your right.
But I think we can all agree anyone who gets 550+ have something going on for them?
Theres a limit to how much hard work can do.

In conclusion, I think IQ tests are stupid, partially because they are also a skill that can be picked up