Netsource feedback - Quality Broadband?

STaN

My Netsource RADSL has been installed for 6 days now. I have made good use of it in terms of dowloads and file transfers. It makes browsing allot more pleasant. Its nice to see 30+kb/sec transfers every now and again

Step 1: I ran the Broadband Speed Test program 2.81 by Daniel Bwell.

I selected the BTopenworld 512k service. I just means i pings their servers. It should give a good result though. (Can be found here )

Section 1: General Ping Results
A Ping test is the time taken for a server to reply to a request

Main Server:
0ms - *** PING timed out ***
Tracert to specified location:

Tracing route to 193.38.113.25 over a maximum of 20 hops
1 1 ms <1 ms 1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 303 ms 211 ms 206 ms 213.79.63.254
3 209 ms 236 ms 243 ms 212.17.32.97
4 209 ms 241 ms 216 ms 212.17.32.101
5 283 ms 298 ms 307 ms 64.213.22.253
6 * 180 ms 146 ms 64.212.107.237
7 294 ms 272 ms 333 ms 67.17.92.30
8 276 ms 316 ms 303 ms 64.215.195.218
9 325 ms * 196 ms 195.122.136.245
10 303 ms 298 ms 313 ms 195.122.136.65
11 296 ms 269 ms 335 ms 212.187.128.54
12 355 ms 341 ms 303 ms 212.113.3.10
13 310 ms 260 ms 214 ms 212.113.0.117
14 349 ms 362 ms 277 ms 212.113.10.106
15 236 ms 212 ms 291 ms 194.117.140.9
16 315 ms 577 ms 473 ms 193.38.108.65
17 267 ms 247 ms 209 ms 194.117.150.10
18 343 ms 307 ms 332 ms 193.38.113.25
Trace complete.


UK Server 1 (www.demon.net):
0ms - *** PING timed out ***
Tracert to specified location:

Tracing route to 194.159.254.213 over a maximum of 20 hops
1 1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 257 ms 257 ms 288 ms 213.79.63.254
3 297 ms 318 ms 297 ms 212.17.32.97
4 153 ms 234 ms 269 ms 212.17.32.101
5 259 ms 254 ms 305 ms 64.213.22.253
6 319 ms 295 ms * 64.212.107.241
7 245 ms 221 ms 186 ms 67.17.92.150
8 210 ms 253 ms 245 ms 195.66.224.12
9 227 ms 266 ms 298 ms 194.159.7.201
10 320 ms 261 ms 295 ms 194.159.241.65
11 244 ms 209 ms 300 ms 194.159.176.66
12 325 ms 276 ms 237 ms 194.159.254.213
Trace complete.


UK Server 2 (www.bbc.co.uk):
0ms - *** PING timed out ***
Tracert to specified location:

Tracing route to 212.58.224.122 over a maximum of 20 hops
1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 294 ms 282 ms 323 ms 213.79.63.254
3 207 ms 219 ms 262 ms 212.17.32.97
4 295 ms 194 ms 238 ms 212.17.32.101
5 363 ms 321 ms 210 ms 64.213.22.253
6 167 ms 209 ms 198 ms 64.212.107.237
7 293 ms 282 ms 192 ms 208.49.136.54
8 216 ms 194 ms 272 ms 195.66.224.103
9 335 ms 281 ms 296 ms 212.58.224.122
Trace complete.

USA East Coast Server (www.yahoo.com):
0ms - *** PING timed out ***
Tracert to specified location:

Tracing route to 64.58.76.176 over a maximum of 20 hops
1 <1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 248 ms 269 ms 301 ms 213.79.63.254
3 278 ms 246 ms 256 ms 212.17.32.97
4 * 254 ms 201 ms 212.17.32.101
5 312 ms 331 ms 273 ms 64.213.22.253
6 290 ms 280 ms 321 ms 64.212.107.241
7 398 ms 330 ms 330 ms 208.178.174.82
8 333 ms * 373 ms 64.215.195.37
9 308 ms 341 ms 350 ms 208.173.50.237
10 306 ms 263 ms 331 ms 208.173.50.170
11 398 ms 416 ms 349 ms 216.109.66.91
12 333 ms 378 ms 395 ms 216.109.84.166
13 328 ms * 255 ms 216.109.120.150
14 278 ms 274 ms * 216.109.120.134
15 360 ms 304 ms 347 ms 64.58.76.176
Trace complete.

European Server (www.marcopoly.com):
0ms - *** PING timed out ***
Tracert to specified location:

Tracing route to 195.44.63.5 over a maximum of 20 hops
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 296 ms 257 ms 221 ms 213.79.63.254
3 327 ms 286 ms 226 ms 212.17.32.97
4 322 ms 258 ms 232 ms 212.17.32.101
5 * 256 ms 256 ms 64.213.22.253
6 340 ms 276 ms 221 ms 64.212.107.237
7 303 ms 297 ms 344 ms 67.17.92.146
8 373 ms 210 ms 225 ms 195.66.224.39
9 297 ms 231 ms 274 ms 195.44.198.101
10 267 ms 222 ms 196 ms 195.44.199.209
11 283 ms 323 ms 290 ms 195.44.192.9
12 334 ms 291 ms 301 ms 195.44.63.5
Trace complete.


===

Section 2: Custom Server Ping Results
These results are to four user-definable servers.

Blueyonder Counter-Strike 1:
0ms - *** PING timed out ***
Tracert to specified location:

Tracing route to 194.117.138.249 over a maximum of 20 hops
1 <1 ms 1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 342 ms 268 ms 205 ms 213.79.63.254
3 193 ms 211 ms 202 ms 212.17.32.97
4 318 ms 300 ms 220 ms 212.17.32.101
5 243 ms 234 ms 269 ms 64.213.22.253
6 315 ms 294 ms * 64.212.107.241
7 331 ms 316 ms 390 ms 64.214.65.98
8 329 ms 248 ms 261 ms 208.51.239.162
9 295 ms 254 ms 191 ms 212.187.131.137
10 172 ms 258 ms 289 ms 212.113.3.26
11 342 ms 341 ms 281 ms 212.187.151.98
12 346 ms 333 ms 356 ms 194.117.136.37
13 355 ms 313 ms 356 ms 194.117.136.61
14 330 ms 345 ms 320 ms 194.117.138.249
Trace complete.


Blueyonder Team-Fortress Leage 1:
0ms - *** PING timed out ***
Tracert to specified location:

Tracing route to 194.117.138.225 over a maximum of 20 hops
1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 307 ms 295 ms 303 ms 213.79.63.254
3 271 ms 272 ms * 212.17.32.97
4 364 ms 241 ms 456 ms 212.17.32.101
5 357 ms 229 ms 245 ms 64.213.22.253
6 287 ms 282 ms 238 ms 64.212.107.241
7 327 ms 298 ms * 64.214.65.98
8 274 ms 328 ms 337 ms 208.51.239.162
9 297 ms 302 ms 332 ms 212.187.131.16
10 345 ms 273 ms 292 ms 212.113.3.26
11 317 ms 304 ms 314 ms 212.187.151.98
12 358 ms 354 ms 359 ms 194.117.136.77
13 259 ms 287 ms * 194.117.136.86
14 287 ms 324 ms 316 ms 194.117.138.225
Trace complete.


BarrysWorld Master Server (all games):
0ms - *** PING timed out ***
Tracert to specified location:

Tracing route to 213.221.174.165 over a maximum of 20 hops
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 299 ms 264 ms 189 ms 213.79.63.254
3 228 ms 309 ms 304 ms 212.17.32.97
4 290 ms 275 ms 264 ms 212.17.32.101
5 258 ms 235 ms 178 ms 64.213.22.253
6 276 ms 295 ms 333 ms 64.212.107.237
7 254 ms 227 ms 266 ms 208.49.136.54
8 252 ms 263 ms 243 ms 208.49.136.66
9 309 ms 337 ms 308 ms 213.200.77.58
10 232 ms 235 ms 307 ms 213.221.179.115
11 * * * Request timed out.
12 * * * Request timed out.
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
Trace complete.


Barrysworld Quake III Arena:
0ms - *** PING timed out ***
Tracert to specified location:

Tracing route to 213.221.176.6 over a maximum of 20 hops
1 1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1
2 191 ms 239 ms 224 ms 213.79.63.254
3 336 ms 325 ms 283 ms 212.17.32.97
4 164 ms 143 ms 176 ms 212.17.32.101
5 278 ms 259 ms 331 ms 64.213.22.253
6 244 ms 287 ms 210 ms 64.212.107.237
7 253 ms 257 ms 278 ms 208.49.136.54
8 324 ms 306 ms 312 ms 208.49.136.66
9 274 ms 273 ms * 213.200.77.58
10 252 ms 222 ms 294 ms 213.221.179.115
11 324 ms * 329 ms 213.221.176.6
Trace complete.

===

Section 3: Download Speed Results
Three downloads are tested; one from one of your ISPs servers, one through your Transparent Cache and one through an alterntive cache. This will give you an idea of how capable your connection is. Note: You should take the highest download speed into account.

Download through Transparent Cache:
21KB/s (168Kb/s) - Poor - this is too low

Download through alternative Cache (webcache.bt.net):
31KB/s (248Kb/s) - Poor - this is too low

===

Section 4: Packet Loss

50 packets were sent, 40 bounced back; 20% loss (estimated)
Above average - not good enough

STaN

Step2: Running Ping Plotter I obtained results to popular sites.

Its good as it allows to take a snapshot of the ping times over however long you wanted. I only let it run for about 6-8mins to get a good idea. Its 10pm on a weekday when these have been taken

to jolt.co.uk

i don't think the first hop ping dropped below 150ms. The red lines are area's of 30% packet loss

Mountjoy Mugger

This is being discussed at length in the Broadband forum.

STaN

to boards.ie

notice the jump to 1000ms, first time thats happened. The pings average in the yellow band. I.e. >200ms

Mountjoy Mugger

Stan,

There seem to be a number of issues at present with Netsource installs. From what be gleaned from all the info so far is that it's down to local exchange problems where eircom have misconfigured some exchanges. Sloth has written a lot about it over in Broadband.

STaN

to ireland.com

this should be really fast as its not even leaving the country. Netsource has direct peering with eircom where the site is hosted.

shinzon

stan theres nothing new here that hasnt been discussed in the via the verdict thread in the broadband forum, just pop over there see what sloth did, do it and youll be fine


regards
shin

STaN

I read the whole thread, even made about 5 posts in it. Sloth ISNT on RADSL?

This is a ping issue not a throughput issue. I'm not the only one. I'm not even in the same area code as him. Its a widespread netsource issue. Its to do with their router in the exchange with the 2mb pipe to 192 users.

shinzon

Originally posted by STaN
I read the whole thread, even made about 5 posts in it. Sloth ISNT on RADSL?

This is a ping issue not a throughput issue. I'm not the only one. I'm not even in the same area code as him. Its a widespread netsource issue. Its to do with their router in the exchange with the 2mb pipe to 192 users.

worth a ring to netsource just to ask them to check exchange even if its not on radsl, by the way sloth is not on radsl either, hes on netsource adsl


regards
shin

STaN

Originally posted by shinzon
worth a ring to netsource just to ask them to check exchange even if its not on radsl, by the way sloth is not on radsl either, hes on netsource adsl


regards
shin

I am on RADSL.

Different products and systems/routers.

I will ring them. But as you can see, even from the boards.ie ping test, it is quite terrible

ando

these are my results after 11pm:



pings start to settle after a while, but its still nowhere near acceptable

flav0rflav

Well I feel it's the contention/no cap/fixed ip all leading to a bit of a squeeze. But you get what you pay for?

It may ease out in weeks to come as more people sign up and the probabilities of contention ratios start to kick in, but it may not. The Netsource package does tend to attract the heavy user.

I must look up which services the gamers in the uk are going for. BT say they have 50:1 contention ratios. But it's a bigger market over there, maybe it all works out easier.

flav0rflav

from adslguide in the uk http://www.adslguide.org.uk/howitworks/dslam.asp
PVC1 = Home500 USB users connected at 50:1
PVC2 = Business500 Ethernet users connected at 20:1
PVC3 = Business1Mb Ethernet users connected at 20:1
PVC4 = Business2Mb Ethernet users connected at 20:1

Notes - Notes - The Permanent Virtual Connections (PVC's) are where BT intends that contention should take place. They have a minimum size of 10Mbps and carry a mix of traffic to/from 3 ISPs. ie - each PVC would be used by a maximum of 3 ISPs for users on the same service - Home500 for instance.

Contention

Yep, it's that old bugbear, the bane of UK ADSL users lives - right? Well actually no, but it's a qualified no. BT are currently not contending anyone on the PVC's but at some point in the future they will undoubtedly have to. We know (or at least we believe) that the PVC's are a minimum of 10Mb, but they could be far larger and on some exchanges almost certainly are.

At the moment there's just not enough ADSL users in the UK to cause BT a problem with bandwidth on their ATM network, but as the popularity of ADSL grows there will definitely come a point where they will have to apply some contention to the PVC's. We can only hope that when that moment arrives enough data has been collected about usage patterns that BT will realise that 50:1 contention is unsustainable. My personal view is that 20:1 is borderline.

Well that explains why nildram are able to be _fast_.

Where as we are already 40 users on one 2 meg line.

Mr. Fancypants

Im moving apartment next week and will not be going back to Netsource unless this latency issue is sorted out by then. Im sure that people will be leaving in droves if it isnt sorted by the end of their 2 month contract also....

shinzon

maybe someone on netsource can post here and tell the masses exactly whats going on, those pings and traceroutes are atrocious, even my 56k dialup is never that bad


regards
Shin

Ro

Try a ping to www.netsource.ie and if it's over 50ms then it's their problem. It could be a problem with the PVC between Netsource and the Eircom pop - the line is probably saturated.

I'd disregard those pings to Ireland.com - last time I heard Via only had a 2Mb line to the INEX

Mr. Fancypants

Pings to netsource are well over 200ms.

I received a mail from Netsource saying that the link from Eircom for RADSL was saturated over the weekend and that they have ordered more connectivity for RADSL. He did point out that he thinks the problem might also be down to the initial "flush" of users taking advantage of the broadband experience.

Ro

I'd say it's more down to the fact that contentions don't work until you have thousands of users. If you've a 512k line with a contention of 48:1 - it only takes one user to saturate the line. Whereas if you have a 1Gb line at 48:1 it's going to take 2000 users going full throttle to saturate it. The latter is far less likely.

GUI

netsource will attract the warez monkeys
and of course this is going to have a huge impact on pings..

Hugh_C

your sig is an incitement to take drugs.

Serotin depletion will **** with your head.

DeVore

Its a quote from a film. This isnt the thread to start a drugs debate. Take it to Humanities.

Back on topic please.

DeV.

ando

i'm not hanging about after the 2 month's if the problem aint sorted

STaN

Originally posted by ando
i'm not hanging about after the 2 month's if the problem aint sorted

Ditto. I think it was down to bad planning and maybe they did not predict what they were getting into. Looks like bad forsight.

I can't see why they shove a 192 people onto a 2meg pipe whereas they could have stuck 1920 people onto a 20meg pipe and the result would have been allot better.

MrB

As STaN and ando say, if things don't improve drastically I'll be gone. We are paying a premium price for this service and deserve better.

If anyone from Netsource is listening, now is the time to restore my faith in you.

thomasb

The 2MB link from Eircom to us is currently seriously contended. We're trying to get the link speed upgraded, but it's proving difficult to find the relevant person in Eircom to do this.

Hopefully once the upgrade is in place things will improve.

Thomas

java

Thats a great way for Netsource to do business Thomasb. Blame somebody else for the fact that Netsource didnt have the foresight and forward planning to cope with big demand. Im sick of Netsources excuses and constantly blaming ALL their problems on eircom. Yes eircom may be a big part of their problems but Netsource constant "blame it on eircom" attitude stinks. So much for customer service.

bk

Originally posted by java
Thats a great way for Netsource to do business Thomasb. Blame somebody else for the fact that Netsource didnt have the foresight and forward planning to cope with big demand. Im sick of Netsources excuses and constantly blaming ALL their problems on eircom. Yes eircom may be a big part of their problems but Netsource constant "blame it on eircom" attitude stinks. So much for customer service.

Some of us who are of the suspicious type might almost think Eircom want Netsource to fail and are doing everything possible to make it happen:

1) Eircom keep "losing" Netsource activation orders.
2) People who had previously passed for DSL are now failing when they apply for DSL through Netsource.
3) Problems with Authentication servers, maybe on Eircoms side.
4) Eircom making it hard for Netsource to increase their bandwidth.

Maybe I'm just being paranoid and there has been a serious of extraordinary events, but it all just seems too convenient for Eircom. I hope ComReg take note of all these threads and start an investigation, after all isn't this exactly what they are there for.

BTW java give Netsource a break, this is a new and very popular service, there are bound to be problems at the start, but I'm sure Netsource will sort them out. The same happened with IOL NoLimits when it first came out, however in the end it turned out to be an excellent service.

At least Netsource are keeping us informed about what is going on, is it really any surprise that most of the problems are with their interaction with Eircom, after all it is not in Eircoms interest for you to have a good experience with Netsource. At least with Netsource you can walk away after two months, with IOL or Eircom you are trapped with them for 12 months, in my opinion this is likely to make Netsource work much harder to fix any problems then either Eircom or IOL would.

STaN

i will agree with bk on this.

Got a friendly voicemail this morning informing me that there was a problem with the service and that it was in the process of being sorted out and that if i wanted any more information to ring the support number.

Note: they called me

Very impressed

SkepticOne

Originally posted by bk
Maybe I'm just being paranoid and there has been a serious of extraordinary events, but it all just seems too convenient for Eircom. I hope ComReg take note of all these threads and start an investigation, after all isn't this exactly what they are there for.

I also hope Netsource are keeping ComReg up to date on their problems with Eircom. Also, I wonder if this is related to what Scott Taunton was saying in that article:

UTV Internet is developing its own DSL product for launch in the Republic, he says, although there are still some regulatory issues to be worked out with regard to wholesale pricing of capacity from Eircom.

DeVore

The 2mb pipe isnt the worst of it.

2Mb = 2048K ... divide that by 192 people and you get 10Kps per person.

Take 512k upstream and divide it by 48 and you get a little over 1Kps per person.

I've been investigating this problem lately... its scary.

DeV.

spongebob

Originally posted by DeVore


I've been investigating this problem lately... its scary.

DeV.

I've noticed that, Why?

You're a LEAP customer and have been for ages

Sloth

I'd be lying if I said Netsource's performance has been anything less than flawless for me since I got it fixed:

C:\DOCUME~1\KEVINO~1>ping -t www.netsource.ie

Pinging www.netsource.ie [212.17.32.48] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=63ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=64ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=64ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=61ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=65ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=65ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=64ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=56ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=61ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=61ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=62ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=57ms TTL=126
Reply from 212.17.32.48: bytes=32 time=64ms TTL=126

Ping statistics for 212.17.32.48:
Packets: Sent = 26, Received = 26, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 56ms, Maximum = 65ms, Average = 61ms


I also average 83 to jolt, 88 to www.boards.ie and 91 to europa.owo.com
I know those pings aren't exactly up there with nildram pings but for interleaved ones where the baseline is about 60ms they're not too bad.
As for the RADSL problems you lot on RADSL just have to phone them day in and day out until it gets fixed and threaten to move company unless the problem is fixed. It's the only way.

STaN

when its good its very good, when its bad its horrid. It was good today at 2pm. Was terrible last night till 4am. Any updates?

flav0rflav

They say they are going to go from a 2 meg to a 6 meg link for radslers, potentially this week. I have to say, I don't think it'll be enough.

Why not just bite the bullet and throw in a fibre connect at 45 or even 155? You're aiming for thousands of customers? And sooner, or later, radsl will step up to 1 or 2 meg. Follow the nildram model, be the quality provider.

How much is it? 155/oc3/stm1? eh?

MrB

I couldn't agree with flav0rflav more, you already charge a premium why not make a name for your self as the best DSL provider, it can't hurt

bricks

Originally posted by flav0rflav
They say they are going to go from a 2 meg to a 6 meg link for radslers, potentially this week. I have to say, I don't think it'll be enough.

Why not just bite the bullet and throw in a fibre connect at 45 or even 155? You're aiming for thousands of customers? And sooner, or later, radsl will step up to 1 or 2 meg. Follow the nildram model, be the quality provider.

How much is it? 155/oc3/stm1? eh?

Would it not cost a small fortune to get fibre installed?
Considering how much it costs in this country for 2Mbits leased line. I'd say the price of a 155Mbits line is really scarry.

flav0rflav

I don't know how much it costs, but i'll bet it costs alot more than it should cost, if the regulator and government were really promoting competition and a broadband future.

STaN

it costs in the region of €150,000 per year in rent. Thats just the line from exchange to exchange.

flav0rflav

Not sure where you got that price Stan. Best I have is:

5. Price
The pricing for ALT will follow the pricing principles for 155M, 45M and 2M with a
connection fee and a distance based rental, priced on a project-by-project basis.
Access Seekers should contact their Wholesale Account Manager for specific pricing.
The charge per 1M CBR VT is EUR 2032 per annum rental.

But we'll go with 150k per annum for 155M.

512k @ 10:1, 155M => 3100 customers
1M @ 20:1, 155M => 3100 customers (ok so I rigged it).

150k/3k = 50 per user per annum, or ~4 euro per customer per month.

Netsource?

flav0rflav

Netsource mentioned that eircom mentioned that their bandwidth upgrade should happen yesterday/today (friday).

Gold star and no homework for first person to spot when it happens. Although I fear it may be difficult to notice a big difference.

[edit]
discussion has more actively continued in broadband forum.

DeVore

Originally posted by Muck
I've noticed that, Why?

You're a LEAP customer and have been for ages

I'm jammy. I got Leap in early and was on their test. Still getting good access cos I'm on some kinda business circuit that never contends me in the evening (yummy 50K downloads).

Muck, I'll be explaining my interest in all things RADSL very soon on this forum (in the interests of Full Disclosure) but I have an *essay* to write first.

Yes, DeVore's up to something.



DeV.