Netsource DSL and Eircom Delay

Damian

I signed up for DSL with netsource on the 24th April and I am not yet connected. So far it has been an exercise in frustration. Not due to any fault of Netsource, they have been great, but thanks to our old friends in Eircom.

My letter of complaint to Eircom (below) tells the sad tale in it's entirety. I have sent it to their general complains e-mail. If anyone has a e-mail address of anyone in Eircom worth sending this to, please let me know.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

======================================

Dear Sirs,

I have a comlaint in relation to your provision of wholesale DSL.

I have not signed up for DSL with yourselves but with netsource. However I have a complaint in relation to Eircom's handing over of my line to Netsource.

I submitted my application to Netsource on 24th April. They informed me that setting up DSL would take 11 working days, which included 10 working days for Eircom to enable and release the line.

Today, the 20th May, 16 working days (excluding bank holidays) after

placing my order, Eircom have not yet released my line.

I understand that there can be difficulties from time to time and things can sometimes run over by a day or two. However 6 days is excessive. Unfortunately this is not my only complaint.

Eircom informed Netsource that my line would be released on Monday the 12th May. When this did not happen, I contacted Netsource, who contacted Eircom. Eircom informed Netsource, who informed me in writing, that my line was a 'top priority' and would be done the following morning. My line was not done the following morning.

There then followed a week, of me contacting Netsource, who then contacted Eircom, several times a day for status updates. Every day Eircom reported that my line was now a 'top priority' and would be done the following morning. This has not yet happened.

However, it gets worse. This moring I recieved a call from Netsource, informing me that Eircom have informed them that my order has 'gotten lost' on Eircom's system and that the only thing that could be done is to resubmit the order and start the 10 day wait again from today. I queried that surely, Eircom, having admitting having initially recieving the order, and having promised delivery daily for a week, would place my order at the top of the queue. Netsource informed me that no, Eircom will not do that and the only option is to go back to square one.

This beggers belief. I just cannot understand how this is possible. I would like an explaination as to how you can;
a) Report every day for 6 woring days that my (already overdue) line was a 'top priority' that would be done the following morning.
b) Then turn around and say actually we have now lost your order on the system and you must start again.

As you would expect, I am extreamly annoyed by this. I would like
a) an explaination as to how this has happened.
b) a date by which my line will be done, and I do not expect it to be a wait of anything near 10 days.

My details are as follows.
Phone number: xxxxx
Eircom Account:
xxxxx
E-Mail damiansullivan@eircom.net


I would like a response to this by the close of business this evening, otherwise I shall be lodging a complaint with the Commision for Communications Regulation.


Regards,

Damian O'Suilleabhain

BlackFlag

My friend has more or less same problem about Eircom handing over her line.........order was lost etc and dates put back.

echomadman

I'm in the same boat at the moment.
I haven't been hassling netsource about it too much yet, I believe them when they say eircom are screwing around.
I dont like the sound of his "eircom have lost your order business" though.
I do know for a fact that eircom customers are up and running here in ennis,

Maybe i'd better give Netsource another call.....

Jorinn

I put my order in on the 9th, eircom are scheduled to activate my line on the 23rd, not too bad.

However this sems vaguely stupid, My line was still active well after I was kicked from the trial. I just didn't ahve a l/p. Unfortunatly won't have new modem for a while to check.

DaithiSurfer

my order was lost TWICE by Eircom.
11 days apart , very suspect

Damian

Not bas at all Jorinn when you consider that my order of 24 April, is now due for activation on 3 June. :rolleyes:

Fergus

Maybe Ireland will finally reach where the US has been for a few years..

The telecom act granted DSL Local Exchange Carriers (DLECs) the use of infrastructure belonging to their competitors, the incumbent carriers. In addition, the act attempted to spell out just what incumbents must do to comply.

It was clear from the start the DLECS faced an uphill battle. "The ILECs owned the copper, they owned the central office space, they owned the customers," he says.

The kindest comment about the incumbents comes from Gartner analyst Jay Pultz, who says, "They followed the letter of the law, but they didn't go out of their way. They certainly didn't make it easy on their new foes, who had to come to them for everything from access to central offices, in which they needed to install equipment, to order-taking systems, to installation requests."

Many think Pultz is being overly generous. "There were a million dirty tricks," says a source with more than two decades of experience in the telecommunications industry who requested anonymity. Lots of times a DLEC would go out to a central office on a weekend to install equipment and find the doors locked. "There were orders 'lost' - truckloads of orders," the source says.

The DLECs filed many lawsuits and complaints with state public utility commissions. The complaints span a range of issues, from allegations that one party has failed to follow a billing agreement to allegations of "LEC slamming."

The California ISP Association (CISPA) claims ILECs use their control of the last-mile infrastructure to favor their own ISPs and to hobble competitors - which has resulted in SBC Communications controlling 90% of the DSL business in the state.

Full article here

Damian

Interesting article, great if we were at that stage

But it's probably more likely that eircom doesn't have the wit to play dirty tricks and is just unbelieveable incompetent.

I wonder how many orders for Eircom DSL 'get lost' ?

echomadman

Optimistic predictions are not unanimous. Martin McDermott, senior vice president at New Paradigm Resources Group in Chicago, says, "DSL was a good technology in the late '80s, when it was invented. . . . Now, for business, T-1s are so inexpensive.'"

oh god that hurts to read after getting this months phone bill

m1ke

My line was due to be activated on the 16th. Of course, it wasn't. About 8 phonecalls later to netsource I was just continually fobbed off, again and again.... They took a leaf out of eircoms book, promised to call be back many and numerous times but never did.

No wonder the broadband numbers are total shyte in this country, the ****ing massive obstacles placed in your way to getting it installed make it a joke and a waste of time for your average joe.

aodh_rua

Ordered on April 25 - Eircom initiallly screwed up so things were delayed, then finally they said that the line was enabled last Friday. Netsource sent a guy out today, and whaddya know - the line is still not ready.

C'mon Eircom - this just isn't on. Its absolutely not on that you can *abuse* your position to damage competitors by not giving them a level playing field!

I think I am going to complain to ComReg too - although they'll just set up a committee or someother bureaucratic timewaster!

----

Tony

shinzon

this whole broadband situation is just getting intolerable, eircom are just ****wits with the intelligence of an amoeba, its amazing that in this day and age a company can get away with this level of abuse of its powers

Why oh why have we not got a regulatory body that has the powers to force eircom to do whatever the customer wishes it to do.

I know comreg is there and every now and then they do come through but not on a regular basis

Dammit i h8 bloody eircom, shower of ****ing gob****es

Shin

delop

Ill bet that Eircom have never lost or failed to send out a bill... I wonder what would happen if I afew people who got setup with their DSl, then had a problem with the Post where their Checks for payment of Line rental kept getting lost .... Im sure Eircom would be very patient....

dahamsta

Ok, that's four solid reports of "lost" orders from three people in a very short space of time. There's very little doubt in my mind that these orders have either been sidelined or intentionally deleted. There's also very little doubt in my mind that the frequency of these losses creates a very strong possibility that "losses" have been recommended as a matter of policy.

Someone had to "lose" these orders, and someone had to tell them to do it. Those people are breaking the law if they carry out those actions, and breaking the law if they don't report them to the authorities. I hope they realise that, and I hope they realise that someday, it'll come out. If ComReg or the Competition Authority find out who they are, they'll be finished. If I find out, the potential for actual bodily harm is very high.

Never forget: We know where you live.

adam

Damian

mental note : never cross dahamsta

DaithiSurfer

I forgot to tell you, my friend who lives accross the road from me also had his order lost.
So thats five.

Rancid

Pretty much the same story here.. (Black Flag mentioned my dilemma earlier in this thread)...

Ordered Netsource on Thurs 17th April.
Tue 22nd April supplied them with Cease Order number on my line, which I got after 5 phone calls to Eircom.

Estimated connection date was 12th May due to the many bank holidays.

However... my cease order wasn't processed by Eircom until 8th/9th May which automatically delayed my connection date even further.

I now have a "promised" (ie. not confirmed) connection date of 22nd May.

I'm convinced that my order was "sidelined" by Eircom, or at least delayed significantly...
I had a split line for over 3 years which Eircom recently replaced with a full line and immediately *OFFERED* me adsl, an offer I declined after 7 days consideration, for obvious reasons, the main one being Netsource's much better offer.
However, Eircom had marked my line "PENDING"....which necessitated the Cease Order....which caused the ongoing delays I've described above!

Interesting too, is the fact that with the advent of adsl... suddenly Eircom could provide the new cable which was *impossible* for years before????

SkepticOne

Follow the example of the top poster. All reports of orders 'lost' or otherwise delayed should also be sent to ComReg.

If you get no satisfactory explanation from the operator, just fill in this form:

http://www.comreg.ie/sections/complaints_form.asp

Follow up a few days later by phoning 1890 229 668 to make sure they are investigating.

Scruff

It certainly does seem €ircon are up to dirty tricks.
Is this an issue Dave should raise on his next radio interview??

Urban Weigl

This all reminds me about the time I ordered ISDN from Eircom last year. They kept delaying, promising an engineer would come out the following morning, nothing would happen, and so on.

Finally they lost my order.

I had to place a new order.

They lost my order again. And so on.

When an engineer finally did arrive, he basically told me to **** off he won't bother installing it because I'm too far from the exchange. Finally managed to get him to test the line, not a single error, not that far from the exchange (only 4 miles, RADSL works that far even!).

So about a hundred phone calls and two months of waiting and I got ISDN. I realize this isn't directly related, but I think it's relevant as it is another example of Eircom "losing" orders, delaying, etc..

CutterIE

Hum? I should have had my line enabled by eircom 4 working days ago, called netsource yet again today who have said that my line will be enabled before the weekend.

If eircom have lost my fxxking order I will have a nose-bleed !!

I'm also going to move my phone call charges from eircom to esat tomorrow. I guess this is the only way I can get my own back on eircom, I know that I will still pay them for my line rental.

The infrastructure in this country is the disgrace of europe.

Cheers

Damian

SNAP!

I was also just sitting here fuming and plotting moving my voice calls business to anyone else!

nahdoic

I got the exact same call from netsource this morning. Oh we're very sorry, after all this waiting and more waiting, you're going to have another 10 working days. But you're a top priority now on both ends, but it will still take 10 working days. There's nothing we can do about that. We're as disgusted as you are ... yadi yadi da.

I'm completely disgusted at both netsource and eircom.

nahdoic

how are we supposed to lodge a complaint with comreg SkepticOne?

Our primary point of contact is with netsource, and they don't seem to be able to have the balls to force eircom to get these orders put through right now.

... I'm all ready for making phone calls, writing letters and sending e-mails.

shinzon

Originally posted by nahdoic
how are we supposed to lodge a complaint with comreg SkepticOne?

Our primary point of contact is with netsource, and they don't seem to be able to have the balls to force eircom to get these orders put through right now.

... I'm all ready for making phone calls, writing letters and sending e-mails.

Go here

http://www.comreg.ie/sections/complaints_form.asp

regards

shin

nahdoic

yes I did read SkepticOne's post were he kindly gave the URL, I was concerned about the procedure which comreg have to adhere to, and if it is fundamentally pointless sending in a complaint to comreg about this.

netsource already know about this ... our complaint is with eircom really. but netsource being our primary point of contact, we can only complain about their service.

shinzon

Originally posted by nahdoic
yes I did read SkepticOne's post were he kindly gave the URL, I was concerned about the procedure which comreg have to adhere to, and if it is fundamentally pointless sending in a complaint to comreg about this.

netsource already know about this ... our complaint is with eircom really. but netsource being our primary point of contact, we can only complain about their service.

there has been many complaints made to comreg about eircoms policies regarding broadband that have been upheld, i myself have a complaint in and fully expect at the end of it to have eircom fully comply with comregs edicts as regards my case.

Hey all it takes is an e-mail ye aint got nothing to lose

regards

Shin

specific case here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94165

was to do with isdn but hey he won with comregs help

nahdoic

I intend fully to complain, i'd just like to be smart about it, no point wasting my time.

That example was of a direct customer of eircom, and after he exhausted all avenues of complaint contacted comreg. At which point, comreg can take it up, not before.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by nahdoic
how are we supposed to lodge a complaint with comreg SkepticOne?

Our primary point of contact is with netsource, and they don't seem to be able to have the balls to force eircom to get these orders put through right now.

... I'm all ready for making phone calls, writing letters and sending e-mails.

I'm aware that strictly speaking, ComReg might come back and say that this is a matter between Netsource and Eircom and it is up to Netsource to complain to ComReg if they don't feel they are getting the right service from Eircom.

However, if you are being sent 'round the houses' by either Netsource or Eircom and have already made representations to the companies concerned and not got decent answers then you have cause to complain, IMHO.

My main purpose in putting that link there is to make ComReg aware of the general issues affecting the consumer in trying to get DSL. Whether Netsource or Eircom is at the subject should not really matter in this regard. The important thing is that ComReg are being told about what is going on by ordinary consumers. If Netsource are telling the truth, this should add to their case (assuming they have made a complaint).

Ultimately, yes, Netsource should be sorting everything out for the consumer and should not be placing the blame on other companies.

RapierX

I ordered on the 22nd of April. On the phone today to Nicola, she says I'll we switched on this friday, however I havent recieved my pack yet. Ive also to buy my router...Based in Limerick.

CutterIE

Would'nt it be funny if all this waiting and being fxxked about pushed someone over the edge and they when down to the eircom offices and went all postal on their arse's.

AHAHAH That would make my fxxking week!!

shinzon

Originally posted by nahdoic
I intend fully to complain, i'd just like to be smart about it, no point wasting my time.

That example was of a direct customer of eircom, and after he exhausted all avenues of complaint contacted comreg. At which point, comreg can take it up, not before.

i know i just put that up there as an example of what comreg can do


regards

shin

CutterIE

Gee I just thought if that really happens I'm gonna need me an ailbi now!!!

Detonated Sauce

Take it easy there Cutter

CutterIE

10 deep breaths and I'm all calm again.

but seriously, if someone out there who has a broadband connection could start downloading a really big file and then take screen shots of it and post them on here that would be just great.

now where did I put that bottle of prozac ?

Detonated Sauce

Big enough?

BlackFlag

Originally posted by m1ke


No wonder the broadband numbers are total shyte in this country, the ****ing massive obstacles placed in your way to getting it installed make it a joke and a waste of time for your average joe.

Damn right.

Damian

Right, as I have not received a responce from Eircom, I have lodged a complaint with ComReg.

I went over my tale of woe as per my mail to Ericom yesterday and then made the request below.

I would like to thank Adam for a certain eloquent turn of phrase. I hope you don't mind, I couldn't put it as well myself.

....
I would like to request that you do whatever is in your power to compel Eircom to hand over my line to Netsource without any more of their ‘pretend’ dalays.

Secondly, and more importantly, it seems that this is not an isolated incident or an exception. I personally know of 6 other people who have ordered DSL from competitor’s of Eircom. Every one of them have had their order ‘lost’ by Eircom, some people have had their order ‘lost’ several times.

There's very little doubt in my mind that these orders have either been sidelined or intentionally deleted. There's also very little doubt in my mind that the frequency of these losses creates a very strong possibility that ‘losses’ have been recommended as a matter of policy.

Someone had to ‘lose’ these orders, and someone had to tell them to do it. Those people are breaking the law and I would like to request that you investigate Ericom’s practices in this regard.

delop

Hi Guys,

Would'nt it be funny if all this waiting and being fxxked about pushed someone over the edge and they when down to the eircom offices and went all postal on their arse's.

I have a suggestion, arter you order your BB, and while you are waiting, **** down and pick up a book and read it...

I have a friend working in Eircom, he actually works on the DSL roll out team. I dont know if you woudl believe me or not, but when he goes home he does not think about frustrated people wanting BB, in fact he does not think about it much at work either, and that is true of many of his co workers.

There is no conspiracy to twart what you think you diserve, and if I were to mention your 'going postal' remark to my mate, his reply would be, 'probably one of these 14 yr old in his bedroom who hasnt realised that his opinion does not matter, or that there are more important things in life, than BB'

Grow up.

Damian

I also sent the following to Eircom.

Dear Sirs,

As per my mail yesterday (below), as I did not receive a reply by close of business, I have this morning lodged a formal complaint with the Commission for Communications Regulation . I am extremely frustrated with Eircom's handling of this. I intend moving my voice call business to any other provider tomorrow if I do not receive some sort of response from someone before close of business today.

Regards,

Damian O’Suilleabhain

raeGten

Originally posted by delop

I dont know if you woudl believe me or not, but when he goes home he does not think about frustrated people wanting BB, in fact he does not think about it much at work either, and that is true of many of his co workers.

IYou've got a point Delop.
It's not possible to prove it without the statistics but it really wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out that Eircom loose LOTS of orders for all kinds of different things. I think it's more incompetance rather than conspiracy.
Not that that makes it any better, or acceptable. As long as they have their monopoly on the phone lines they can charge what they want for line rental and make a mess of the country's infrastructure while they're at it.
The only thing I can imagine having any effect on them though is Comreg so I guess it's worth taking the time to send them an e-mail if you have a complaint.

dahamsta

Originally posted by delop
I have a friend working in Eircom, he actually works on the DSL roll out team. I dont know if you woudl believe me or not, but when he goes home he does not think about frustrated people wanting BB, in fact he does not think about it much at work either, and that is true of many of his co workers.

It's always great to see people taking pride in their work and caring about what they do.

adam

delop

Originally posted by raeGten

I think it's more incompetance rather than conspiracy.

In the office my mate works in, they were told as a cost saving measure there will be no more free newspapers in the canteen, that was 6 months ago, and the news paper still appears every day. So you can emagine that if managers cant implement a small thing like that, well....... you can guess the rest.

There is no 'They', When eircom employees hear that Comreg are after them to do this and that, do you think it worries them? No it dosent, because there is no accountability. They are just an large old organisation, I guarantee you that their staff are well frustrated themselves, and it has nothing to do with BB, more important things like pay conditions and booking holidays...

It concerns me to see people getting so frustrated on this bulliten board, some will have heart attacks before they are 15.

When it rains, they is no point shaking your fist at the sky... just wait untill the shower is over and then head out..

raeGten

Yeah Delop, I know, We shouldn't get too carried away. But on the other hand Eircom aren't a force of Nature. It's not like trying to stop the rain or turn back the tide. They're just another company and a lot of people are getting very frustrated with their attitude.
I know it's not the individual workers either, or even their managers. As that story about the newspapers you told proves, the company itself is whats rotten.

echomadman

'probably one of these 14 yr old in his bedroom who hasnt realised that his opinion does not matter, or that there are more important things in life, than BB

and what about those of us who do need it for business, and those of us who have been loseing money because of this utter incompetence and terrible attitude .

I have a friend working in Eircom, he actually works on the DSL roll out team. I dont know if you woudl believe me or not, but when he goes home he does not think about frustrated people wanting BB, in fact he does not think about it much at work either, and that is true of many of his co workers.

I think we all knew this anyway

raeGten

We could get totaly off subject here and into a political argument but the truth is, the reason so many people are getting angry is because broadband is just one of a long list of things in this country that doesn't work.....and nobody seems to be doing anything about it.
I have to admit aswell, I don't know how much will change by just writing about it to each other in this forum either.

MarVeL

Sorry Delop but I'm going to borrow you're analogy and run a wee bit further with it, surely the best thing to do is get a hat or umbrella and work around the problem. In this case the problem is dealing with Eircom.
The best solution is to go somewhere it doesnt rain (Wisp, IBB, NTL get your thumbs out theres a huge chance here to ease Delop's mate's life and let him go back to reading his free newspapers). The umbrella is Comreg and public opinion.
I agree with you that there is no point in approaching the individuals in eircom as they are either too apathetic or institutionalised to react in anything approaching a reasonable manner.
We do need to have clear but passionately stated cases to raise the vieqw of the importance of this issue. Take a look at the competitiveness review posted here last week and tell me again if the " pay conditions and booking holidays" are more important not just to the individual customer but also to the country.

delop

MarVeL,

I think thats a more sensible view, I would just worry that people woudl not stick to their convictions to boycott Eircom...

Anyways forget all that...

If people are very upset with them... CutterIE suggested going postal on them, thats a bit serious. Why not do it legal like... Buy one share of Eircoms Stock, Got to their next AGM, and I believe that your one share entitles you to speak at the AGM, so hold up the whole show by talking really slow, with your issues, and the people who will hear it are the people in power.

If you dont feel that you are articulate enough, you can send a proxy to speak on your behalf, but I reckon this defeats the purpose, Develop a stutter for that day <grin>

raeGten

Originally posted by delop
MarVeL,

Why not do it legal like... Buy one share of Eircoms Stock

Buy Eircom Shares.....ha ha! no way!
They caught me out on that one before!

Abdiel

Only greed caught people out on Eircom shares. You all had a chance to make a quick easy profit, but thought you'd hang in there for the big bucks... which never came - did you honestly think they would with a company like Eircom ?



:rolleyes:

raeGten

I know I'm getting way off subjest here...but what bugged me about Eircom shares wasn't that the value of shares can go up or down (or down and down again in the case of Eircom)......what bugged me was that we were forced to hand over our shares after the buy out. I honestly didn't know they could do that - but I do now!. I would have been happy to hold onto the few share I had till I was old and gray in the hope they someday would break even - but I wasn't given the option.

Sorry again for going off subject.