Is 'gotten' a proper word?

Miguel_Sanchez

I use it all the time.

Example: If he hadn't gotten into that car that day his life would have been completely different.

Is this a proper word - Microsoft Word says no and I don't have a dictionary to hand.

Anyone know? Am I just spelling it wrongly or am I just completely wrong?

woolymammoth

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gotten

i always thought it was anyways...

Gordon

I wouldn't say it is technically proper English (much like my sentence structure there). It probably exists in American dictionarys though.

Praetorian

"If he hadn't gotten into that car that day his life would have been completely different."

I think it would be better if you said the following: If he hadn't got into that car that day his life would have been completely different.

I think "gotten" doesn't sound correct in any sentence

Elmo

No. My mother is always at me for using it. and I have to agree with her gotten is not a word it is an americanism.

Stephen King uses it alot.

Kappar

OK, CAn someone advise me on this? " I used to do..." Is that "used" correct? If so, am I spelling it correctly?

Can some also advise on this? I've always corrected people who say something like: "I've just ROBBED a bike." I'm nearly sure that they should be saying "I've just STOLEN a bike." because the verb to Rob means to Rob someone and/or place of something, so its the place that was robbed and items were stolen. I hope I'm right or I'll have a red face.

Ohh ohhh one more thing, Someone recently corrected me for having "The Children's Books" saying that it was "The Childrens' Books" to which I said no since the the plural does not end with "-s" the apostrophy (sp?) goes before in the posessive but they argued some crazy stuff and just in case i was wrong i let them win but was any one confirm that i was right? :ninja:

Elmo

I was watching CNBC and the amount of times the used the word gotten was increable. It just does not sound correct on the TV.

I've just ROBBED a bike

I just robbed a bike

There is no need for have, is there???????

I've just STOLEN a bike

I have (I've) just stolen a bike, is correct.

I just stole a bike. ????????????? not sure.

Criminals are getting very careful about how they use their words now a days.

Praetorian

Originally posted by Kappar
OK, CAn someone advise me on this? " I used to do..." Is that "used" correct? If so, am I spelling it correctly?

I think its acceptable English, however you can also say “I did”.

Can some also advise on this? I've always corrected people who say something like: "I've just ROBBED a bike." I'm nearly sure that they should be saying "I've just STOLEN a bike." because the verb to Rob means to Rob someone and/or place of something, so its the place that was robbed and items were stolen. I hope I'm right or I'll have a red face.

"I've just robbed a bike" is also acceptable English.

Ohh ohhh one more thing, Someone recently corrected me for having "The Children's Books" saying that it was "The Childrens' Books" to which I said no since the the plural does not end with "-s" the apostrophy (sp?) goes before in the posessive but they argued some crazy stuff and just in case i was wrong i let them win but was any one confirm that i was right? :ninja:

I think its "The children's books". I'll double check tonight.

sceptre

Originally posted by Kappar
Ohh ohhh one more thing, Someone recently corrected me for having "The Children's Books" saying that it was "The Childrens' Books" to which I said no since the the plural does not end with "-s" the apostrophy (sp?) goes before in the posessive but they argued some crazy stuff and just in case i was wrong i let them win but was any one confirm that i was right? :ninja:

I might be a bit simplistic about this but:

The books of the child = the child's books
The books owned by Seamus = Seamus' (or Seamus's) books
The books owned by the children = the children's books
("childrens" is not a real word)
Hence you would indeed be correct.

Of course it's the Students' Union (the union of the students) (that one does end in an s)

Praetorian (or someone else) may well correct me but I'd be surprised as anything else would make less sense.

Praetorian

I think your spot on Sceptre

Kappar

Originally posted by sceptre
I might be a bit simplistic about this but:

The books of the child = the child's books
The books owned by Seamus = Seamus' (or Seamus's) books
The books owned by the children = the children's books
("childrens" is not a real word)
Hence you would indeed be correct.

Of course it's the Students' Union (the union of the students) (that one does end in an s)

Praetorian (or someone else) may well correct me but I'd be surprised as anything else would make less sense.

You're a star

Dun

From David Crystal's Encylopedia of the English Language:

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/gotten.html

"Gotten is probably the most distinctive of all the AmE/BrE grammatical
 differences, but British people who try to use it often get it wrong.
 It is not simply an alternative for have got.  Gotten is used in such
 contexts as 
    They've gotten a new boat.   (= obtain)
    They've gotten interested.   (= become)
    He's gotten off the chair.   (= moved)
 But it is not used in the sense of possession (= have).  AmE does not
 allow
   *I've gotten the answer.
or *I've gotten plenty.
 but uses I've got as in informal BrE.  The availability of gotten
 does however mean that AmE can make such distinctions as the following:
    They've got to leave  (they must leave) vs
    They've gotten to leave  (they've managed to leave)."

As far as I'm aware, "gotten" declined in use here, rather than being created in America. It's still here in "I forget / I've forgotten".

Talliesin

Originally posted by dun_do_bheal
As far as I'm aware, "gotten" declined in use here, rather than being created in America. It's still here in "I forget / I've forgotten".

Yes, as is the case of much American English, though a general sense of being "traditional" this side of the Atlantic and "modern" on the other side leads people on both sides to believe that all Americanisms are American innovations many aren't, the most obvious being "teamster" which was dropped over here once that job stopped requiring you to control a team of horses.

Gotten was much used in Elizabethan English, one example from Shakespeare being

Oxford, how haps it, in this smooth discourse,
You told not how Henry the Sixth hath lost
All that which Henry Fifth had gotten?
Methinks these peers of France should smile at that.
But for the rest, you tell a pedigree
Of threescore and two years; a silly time
To make prescription for a kingdom's worth.

hostyle

erm, how about in the case of "ill-gotten goods" ? ... seems a proper word to me ...

Talliesin

Originally posted by hostyle
erm, how about in the case of "ill-gotten goods" ? ... seems a proper word to me ...

Well in those dialects that have dropped the word "gotten" they might still have "wrack" as in "wrack and ruin" and "fro" as in "to and fro", but not use those words on their own any more, so the phrase "ill-gotten" doesn't prove it's still current.

Kopf

I think your spot on Sceptre

I think its acceptable English, however you can also say “I did”.

I think its "The children's books"

How exactly, Praetorian, were you chosen to be a mod of this forum? I had better grammar before coming out of primary school.

Also, you cannot just equate "I did" with "I used to". "I used to" implies an action repeated in the past. "I did" implies an action performed once.

Praetorian

I think your spot on Sceptre

He was correct, what's your problem?

I think its acceptable English, however you can also say “I did”.

I made a mistake. I'm here to learn as well.

I think its "The children's books"

What's your problem here? :rolleyes: I am correct.

How exactly, Praetorian, were you chosen to be a mod of this forum?

I bribed the admins or I did sexual favours for them. Take your pick. I really wanted 4 shiny gold stars.

I had better grammar before coming out of primary school.

You probably got an A+ in the leaving cert as well. I'm afraid my A- moderating skills will just have to do.

Why don't you try contributing something constructive and interesting to the forum. So far you have only contributed a smilie, your post above and a silly thread that I deleted. Post a short story or a poem!

Kopf

Ok, Ok I suppose you're right. I was just in a bad mood at the time of posting and couldn't believe what I was reading - I didn't have a problem with what you were saying, but how you said it -

I think your spot on Sceptre

your = 2nd person possessive.
you're = you are.

I think its acceptable English, however you can also say “I did”.

its = third person possessive
it's = it is

I'll try to be more constructive in the future, I was just enraged when I read this stuff. Can't stand misuse of the apostrophe and other mistakes with such simple grammar (although I very rarely capitalise 'I' when talking in the first person on the net..)

Talliesin

Originally posted by Kopf
Can't stand misuse of the apostrophe and other mistakes with such simple grammar (although I very rarely capitalise 'I' when talking in the first person on the net..)

The first clause needs a subject ("I can't stand…").

The punctuation at the end should either be only one period if it's meant to be a period, or three periods if it's meant to be an ellipsis. In the latter case you could of course also use an ellipsis character (…), which would probably be better.

Praetorian

your = 2nd person possessive.
you're = you are.

its = third person possessive
it's = it is

Believe it or not, I am actually familiar with these rules. Please excuse my laziness. I should be setting a good example when writing on the English board, I'll make more of an effort in the future.

Please follow the rules set out in the Board charter. If you insult someone again, I will ban you.

Thanks for your time,

Damien

Kopf

The first clause needs a subject ("I can't stand…").

Cheers, didn't even notice myself leaving out the subject, and I didn't mean to put any full stops inside the parentheses in the second sentence. Oh well.

Please follow the rules set out in the Board charter. If you insult someone again, I will ban you.

Deadly buzz.

pickarooney

Originally posted by Talliesin
Well in those dialects that have dropped the word "gotten" they might still have "wrack" as in "wrack and ruin" and "fro" as in "to and fro", but not use those words on their own any more, so the phrase "ill-gotten" doesn't prove it's still current.

Can't you wrack your brains? Or is that rack?

Kopf

Originally posted by pickarooney
Can't you wrack your brains?

Yup, you can.

Or is that rack?

Nope, that's the noun, as in "a shoe rack".

hedgetrimmer

It's probably leftover from the Anglo Saxon Word "getten" which means "to have received" or "to receive" depending on the context of the sence

Talliesin

Originally posted by pickarooney
Can't you wrack your brains? Or is that rack?

Yes, however the word "wrack" meaning ruin or desolation is pretty obsolete and largely exists only in the tautologous phrase "wrack and ruin".

Bsg1974

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

I use it all the time.

Example: If he hadn't gotten into that car that day his life would have been completely different.

Is this a proper word - Microsoft Word says no and I don't have a dictionary to hand.

Anyone know? Am I just spelling it wrongly or am I just completely wrong?

Gotten is not a word! Got is not the present possessive, "have" is. "Have got" is a nonsense. You "have" something, you do not "have got" it! The (non) word "gotten" presumes that got is the present tense, which it is not, it is the past tense e.g."I got it from the shop". Try saying "I got it" rather than "I had gotten it". "Gotten" is not English, never has been, never will be. If Americans stopped bastardising the English language there wouldn't be this confusion. There is no "gotten" or "tooken" or "boughten", all words I have heard on American T.V. "Gotten" is not the past participate of "got" because "got" is already a past tense word. I've also heard " I don't got" on American T.V. - come one, please...
Do not check this with the American Grammar Society, check it with the British Grammar Society, America has been teaching "bad" English for many, many years! If anyone would like to discuss any aspects of the American language any further or require clarification please do not hesitate.

Bsg1974

The correct English would be,"If he hadn't got into the car..."

Elmo

boughten and tooken? Seriously?

mike65

wow bump!

gotten is a horrid word.

Miguel_Sanchez

Holy 9 Year Old Zombie thread Batman!!!!

I had forGOTTEN I'd even created this thread.

But to compare 'gotten' to 'tooken' is nonsense as gotten is a word - its use may be debated but 'tooken'??? - that's just made up.

Elmo

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

Holy 9 Year Old Zombie thread Batman!!!!

I had forGOTTEN I'd even created this thread.

But to compare 'gotten' to 'tooken' is nonsense as gotten is a word - its use may be debated but 'tooken'??? - that's just made up.

Lots of zombie threads about recently. It's gotten bad!

9 years on how do you feel about the word gotten?

Just looking back over this thread but explain

I had forgotten I'd even created this thread

V

I forgot I created this thread

Hunchback

Bsg1974 wrote: »

The correct English would be,"If he hadn't got into the car..."

I think to say '...if he didn't get into...' sounds less hassly

pickarooney

Bsg1974 wrote: »

Gotten is not a word! Got is not the present possessive, "have" is. "Have got" is a nonsense. You "have" something, you do not "have got" it! The (non) word "gotten" presumes that got is the present tense, which it is not, it is the past tense e.g."I got it from the shop". Try saying "I got it" rather than "I had gotten it". "Gotten" is not English, never has been, never will be. If Americans stopped bastardising the English language there wouldn't be this confusion. There is no "gotten" or "tooken" or "boughten", all words I have heard on American T.V. "Gotten" is not the past participate of "got" because "got" is already a past tense word. I've also heard " I don't got" on American T.V. - come one, please...
Do not check this with the American Grammar Society, check it with the British Grammar Society, America has been teaching "bad" English for many, many years! If anyone would like to discuss any aspects of the American language any further or require clarification please do not hesitate.

If by 'bastardising' you mean 'preserving', I agree. Otherwise you're just being needlessly precious, pompous and wrong.

Bsg1974

There's no debate, gotten isn't an English word and seeing as Americans are supposed to speak English, means (The British Grammar Society) and I are right!! Don't take my word for it, ask them! We appease America way too much and this is a prime example. As I've already stated, "got" is not the present possessive. You can say "I could have got one" or " I got one", but not "I've got one". The correct grammer is "I have one". You're trying to make a past tense word "got" errr...well... more past tense (which makes no sense...past tense is past tense), by sticking "(t)en" on the end is nonsense. Americans like to "dumb down" the English language e.g. "labo(u)r", because they're lazy and stupid and add words like the "at" in "where are you at"! "where are you" has been sufficient for a very long time!

pickarooney

Bsg1974 wrote: »

There's no debate, gotten isn't an English word and seeing as Americans are supposed to speak English, means (The British Grammar Society) and I are right!! Don't take my word for it, ask them! We appease America way too much and this is a prime example. As I've already stated, "got" is not the present possessive. You can say "I could have got one" or " I got one", but not "I've got one". The correct grammer is "I have one". You're trying to make a past tense word "got" errr...well... more past tense (which makes no sense...past tense is past tense), by sticking "(t)en" on the end is nonsense. Americans like to "dumb down" the English language e.g. "labo(u)r", because they're lazy and stupid and add words like the "at" in "where are you at"! "where are you" has been sufficient for a very long time!

Honestly, posts like this just make you look like an ill-mannered oik. There's obviously no use in pointing out how spectacularly wrong you are if this is the sort of guff you're going to come out with.

Kinski

Bsg1974 wrote: »

Gotten is not a word! Got is not the present possessive, "have" is. "Have got" is a nonsense. You "have" something, you do not "have got" it! The (non) word "gotten" presumes that got is the present tense, which it is not, it is the past tense e.g."I got it from the shop". Try saying "I got it" rather than "I had gotten it". "Gotten" is not English, never has been, never will be. If Americans stopped bastardising the English language there wouldn't be this confusion. There is no "gotten" or "tooken" or "boughten", all words I have heard on American T.V. "Gotten" is not the past participate of "got" because "got" is already a past tense word. I've also heard " I don't got" on American T.V. - come one, please...
Do not check this with the American Grammar Society, check it with the British Grammar Society, America has been teaching "bad" English for many, many years! If anyone would like to discuss any aspects of the American language any further or require clarification please do not hesitate.

Bumping an almost decade-old thread on this? Someone must have gotten a lot of time on their hands.

slowburner

Oscar Wilde : 'We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language.' (1887)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/mind-your-language/2010/nov/26/americanisms-english-mind-your-language

'England and America are two countries separated by a common language.'
(Shaw or Churchill?)

tac foley

hedgetrimmer wrote: »

It's probably leftover from the Anglo Saxon Word "getten" which means "to have received" or "to receive" depending on the context of the sence

That is what I was taught at school by our English teachers. As in 'Ill-gotten gains' and 'only begotten Son' et al.

As many language specialists would quickly remind you, the English language took a real hit during the 17th century - the Jamesian emmigrants to the New World took Elizabethan English with them as well as the much of the thenprevalent/common spelling of words like 'armour' and 'colour' and 'dolour' [see Shakespeare's spellings of these words], while the French wife/wives of contemporary of English monarchs were responsible for a change in the English language as spoken there by the dictionary compilers of the day - Samuel Pepys and so on - added 'Frenchified' spellings to those common words - hence 'defence/defense' and most of the others of a similar ilk.

In Canada we do not use many of the perceived Americanisms - even the common words like schedule/schedule - AM sKedule - are pronounced as in the English version - sHedule. 'Gotten' in all its forms is not usual, either. We still spell colour, armour, and so on just like you do, although for some reason 'Defence' is becoming Americanised more and more...

tac

Ellis Dee

I see far too many wealthy people all around me enjoying their ill-gotten gains. :eek:

Or has that now become ill-got gains?

pickarooney

Samuel Pepys and so on - added 'Frenchified' spellings to those common words - hence 'defence/defense' and most of the others of a similar ilk

Défense has an S in French, though.

tac foley wrote: »

In Canada we do not use many of the perceived Americanisms - even the common words like schedule/schedule - AM sKedule - are pronounced as in the English version - sHedule.

And yet...

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=37346&p=275603#post275603



Schedule is one of those words (like 'either') that I've no idea of my own pronunciation of. It seems logical to use a 'sk' sound

slowburner

For some odd reason, I (nearly) always say 'nyther' instead of 'neether', but I prefer 'eether' to 'eyther'.
No idea why.

I would opt for the hard 'c' in schedule, as in chasm and chiropractor, rather than cheek and choke.
'Shedyule' sounds like a Christmas tree in a timber building.

tac foley

In Ontario we say nEEther, but in BC it's EYEther.

Pomahto/TOpayto, or whatever.

I could care less what they say in Quebéc/I couldn't care less what they say in Quebéc.

You choose.

tac

Enkidu

Bsg1974 wrote: »

There's no debate, gotten isn't an English word and seeing as Americans are supposed to speak English, means (The British Grammar Society) and I are right!! Don't take my word for it, ask them! We appease America way too much and this is a prime example. As I've already stated, "got" is not the present possessive. You can say "I could have got one" or " I got one", but not "I've got one". The correct grammer is "I have one". You're trying to make a past tense word "got" errr...well... more past tense (which makes no sense...past tense is past tense), by sticking "(t)en" on the end is nonsense. Americans like to "dumb down" the English language e.g. "labo(u)r", because they're lazy and stupid and add words like the "at" in "where are you at"! "where are you" has been sufficient for a very long time!

This is complete garbage. You have no idea what certain grammatical terms mean and also seem to have made up your own (present possessive isn't a term).

It's simple enough. Get is a verb with several meanings, with past "got" and present participle "getting".

Its past participle was originally "gotten", which is completely regular (broke -> broken). However English has several classes of verbs, which form their past participles different ways. For some verbs the past participle is identical to their simple past (or preterite, which ever name you prefer) for example

smoke -> smoked (identical to the simple past "smoked").

In American English "got" stayed in its original conjugation class, in modern British English it drifted to another, the class where the past participle is identical to the simple past.

So the Americans are hardly dumbing down English.