Pc upgrade.. New pc..

-ADREN-

Need help..

Little Cash.. need better pc.. simple.. well kind of

At the moment I have

P3 500
128Ram
Kyro II 64mb card
13 gb hard drive.

This is what I was thinking..
Is it possible that some place i can build a custom pc with space
for my current dvd and cd-rws.. not get any new drives in the
custom built pc.. get a place for my agp Kyro2 card and put that in it as well and just get a p4 2.4 Ghz 512Ram and a bigger Hard Drive with it.. stuff it all together and end up with

P4 2.5ghz
512Ram
Kyro2 64mb card
30gb hard drive

then just use all my current stuff like mouse and keybored monitor etc?

Would that be a much faster pc even with the gf card or does that drag it down? whats the cheapest option in it all?

Could i even salvage the ram in my current pc as well and stick that into the new machine...?

Just a very good upgrade for around 500 euros maybe would be great if u can?

Thanks

-Coz .

Raz

That's all very possible.
If you don't upgrade the RAM though you may find that you'll want to upgrade in just a short while and then you'll have to get another new motherboard and resit the CPU heatsink and fan and it can be a bit of a risky job.
Have a look on www.Komplett.ie and see what their current bundles are like.
If you go for a P4 like you suggested, then you'll need a new power supply.
What you'll need is probably,

---

Bundle €400

---

A new Motherboard, (MSI, Abit, Gigabyte, Asus, Intel)
A new Processor, (P4 2.4Ghz)
New RAM, (DDR 256MB to 512MB)

---

New Power Supply Unit (PSU), (300W+ at about €60)
New Hard Drive. (40GB is probably the smallest you'll get €80 to €100)

You possibly may need a new case if you have a Gateway 2K. My power supply wouldn't fit into my home Gateway 700XL system. Well at least without getting the hacksaw out!!!
You should check if your PSU is P4 compatable. If it is, it will have a 4 pin SQUARE connector on it. The connectors with 4 pins in a row are called molex connectors.

That estimate may be a bit pricy for you but you might be able to cut back with either the harddirve or the PSU but the bundles on Komplett are very good value.

whosurpaddy

this is probly the best option for you. if you go for an amd (athlon) processor rather than an intel (pentium 4) it will shave some of the price off without compromising on power. also you can pick up a relatively cheap case in maplins in town (presuming your in dub)

phaxx

Moved to tech. You're supposed to read the charter for a board BEFORE you post to it.

-ADREN-

damn it where did I post it originaly??

Sorry bout that me was very tired.. soz again.

Emm Raz that sounds great but a little complicated.. are u telling me to put my own pc together there or what?

Ehh and psu, bleh shem U, all the same to me im afraid

I have a dell XPs T500 tower case..

Would a AMD althlon 2.4Ghz be as powerfull as a P4 2.4ghz?

Raz

I thought from you're post you were willing to put it together yourself. Lord knows I would :cool: It's not too difficult.

It probably sounds complicated cos I just threw a load of info at you all at once
Basically, if you're gonna upgrade your processor then you're gonna have to upgrade your motherboard as well.
If you wanna save an extra motherboard upgrade go for the DDR ram as well.
So three things,

-- Motherboard
-- Processor
-- RAM

Put it together yourself and you'll save a packet on the labour.
If you're nervous get a friend who you think has more of a clue and get their help.
Intel have a pretty good guide for installing their processors.
You can also get guides for installing a motherboard and RAM.
Look it up and see what you think. It's not as difficult as you might think.

As for which is more powerful, AMD or Intel? That's an ongoing debate as far as I'm concerned

Oh and you posted in the HW tweaking/modding forum initially

-ADREN-

heh.. thanks..

Ok so whats the best place to grab them things

and how do I know which motherbored for which cpu etc..

And how do i make sure the motherbored withh fit my 2 cd drives and maybe my old hard drive? also where would i get a case that would fit the mother bored i buy?

thanks for the help btw.

-Coz

Raz

Ok so whats the best place to grab them things

Okay, if you have a credit card and can buy online then your best bet is http://www.komplett.ie (I've never used them personally but my girlfriends brother did and he's pretty happy)
They have a forum here on boards.ie "Komplett.ie forum"

If you've no credit card then you'll probably find it easier to go to a high street shop likes "peats" on Parnell Street, "Maplin Electronics" on Liffey Street (I think) or "IT Direct" on Parliment Street.

and how do I know which motherbored for which cpu etc..

An intel P4 uses a socket called a "socket 478"
An AMD Duron/Athlon uses "socket A"

And how do i make sure the motherbored withh fit my 2 cd drives and maybe my old hard drive? also where would i get a case that would fit the mother bored i buy?

Your cd drives and your hard drives connect to the motherboard using an "IDE" cable. There is usually 2 IDE slots on a motherboard and each slot can manage 2 devices.
That makes 4 devices.
There's stuff about primary and secondary but you can ask about that if you feel the need.

also where would i get a case that would fit the mother bored i buy?

In general motherboards and cases come in "ATX form factor".
Just check the description of the case for a phrase like
"suitable for intel pentium 4/AMD Duron/Athlon processors"
If in doubt you can try looking at the specifications for the "Form Factor" the board and case use.

Where would you get one of these? Why http://www.Komplett.ie or one of the high street shops I mentioned

thanks for the help btw

You're most welcome

Just a note, for navigating through the Komplett site click the relevant link on the left. It then opens up a sublist at the top of the menu. Just in case you're having any trouble

-ADREN-

thanks again...

But im real lost now


I took a trip to komplett.ie

Looked up the CPUs foun a nice P4 2.4Ghz for 200 roughly so then i went to mother boards whent to Socket A then a whole range of them came up.. how do i knowif they are tower or not.. or is there a difference. Also the prices range a good bit what I look for, I really am on a budget here. I then went to the RAM section to find there is equaly as many types a Memory thingies as the types of sockets and such. What type memory am I looking for to go with it all?

For under €500 could u find a motherbored and say 512 Ram in there to go with that P4 2.4ghz? Is that a good choice of CPU also.. the AMD seem not to go as fast and just for the same ?

Thanks again for help.

-Coz

-ADREN-

ok sorry that must sound really newbish when i said I saw a P4 then went to socket A.. heh i went to Socket 478 :P

-Coz

kmb

you would be better off getting someone to build it for you perphaps a board member?what locality are you in because the way your going your not getting anywhere and you can rebuild your new system easily for your cash using a xp processor,case,motherboard and ram,still using your"old cdrom.floppy,modem ,harddrive,graphics card etc and you could decide to get a abit nf7 with graphics and sound onboard from komplett,256mb ddr 3200,case,xp2000 and this would give you decent graphics ability and a reliable system......

-ADREN-

Im in limerick..

Ok that nf7 graphics thing.. does that then make my Kyro2 64mb card obsolete? Is that XP thing a AMD CPU? that fast? and is 256mb fast enough to keep me going for a couple of years yea?

Thanks again btw..

-Coz

Thorbar

Personally I think ram is the best upgrade value you can get so I'd go for twice the ram and maybe a slower cpu. Also if you're planning on using this machine for gaming then I'd defo consider getting a top of the range graphics card but failing that have a look at the likes of geforce 4 MX range their fairly decent value at around 80 squids.

conZ

tear into pc superstore (beside jury's) in limerick ADREN.

They got a few nice cases w/ PSU's for about €50-70 and some decent fans too (nice copper ones).

If you buy a case from komplett it'll cost you €40 extra for delivery at least, on top of your €20 for the mobo, cpu, ram. That'll be about €70 for the case, and another 40 for delivery, when you could get a better cpu or more ram.

I would have gone for AMD chip myself.

512mb would be best if you could go for it, DDR aswell.
Maybe a GF4MX upgrade from the kyro 2 (gf4mx = about €70 on for sale boards)

stereo_steve

Tis a shame you live in Limerick! I'm sitting here bored, college is over till exams and I have nothing to do. Would have built it for you!

If you come up to Dublin for the day i'll do it and charge you the high price of a packet of jaffa cakes. mmm!

I'm so sad, need to find something to do...

stereo_steve

Sorry adren, I had a quick skim over the post so sorry if its been mentioned before.


Komplett do "upgrade kits" everything will work with each other. Take a look at http://www.komplett.ie/k/kl.asp?AvdID=1&CatID=44&GrpID=1&t=1397&l=2

Woden

stereo i may have a packet of jaffa cakes some time in the autumn that i may give you for you services if the offer is still open then, don't feel confident about installing a m/b, processor, hsf unit.

stereo_steve

Sure no problem. Just pm me


I have an interview for a job tomorrow, so hopefully that will lift the boredom!

By the way if anyone has their own business and is looking for someone for the summer to cook,clean, fix things,make things,paint,drive, file,answer phones etc. please give me a call!!!

Woden

thanking you

aidan_dunne

Marx Computers (www.marx-computers.com) can build custom machines using whatever bits you want from your old machine. They're pretty good on prices as well. Unfortunately, they're based in Dublin so seeing as you're in Limerick you're kind of out of luck, I guess.

Why not do what some of the others here have suggested and at least try to build it yourself? It's not all that difficult and it would be a good experience for you. You'll get to find out what goes where and learn how to troubleshoot any problems that arise. Or get a Boards member who lives near you who knows what he's doing to come around to your house and build it for you so you can see how to go about it and ask any questions. We all had to learn somewhere!

G

Make sure you get a new case when you upgrade. Dell (in particular the XPS) make it as difficult as possible to upgrade their boxes. There's a cheap case brand available on komplett, QTec I think, who do a decent case and 350W PSU for around 60 euro.

-ADREN-

Suppose none of ye know a place like that marx computers inside in limerick do ye?

Suppose i went for one of those upgrade kits.. given my current equipment.. which one looks the sweatest buy for power and proformance under the €500 mark?

Thanks again.

and thanks to those who have replied

-Coz

kmb

pity your not in cork i would do it for you but as i said nf7 has graphics on board ie gf4 mx and this will play any recent games...nf7m ithink around 146 euro in komplett,also you can get a good case in cork at www.e-stock.ie and they are retail as well as trade.

maxheadroom

Originally posted by -ADREN-

Suppose i went for one of those upgrade kits.. given my current equipment.. which one looks the sweatest buy for power and proformance under the €500 mark?

-Coz

how about this - has an upgrade kit, extra 256 RAM bringing you to 512, and a 40GB 7200RPM (=Fast) Hard Drive. Cost including shipping is about €415, leaving you €85 to get the case + power supply somewhere.

Woden

i like this one as it has an excellent motherboard and half a gig of ram

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?action=info&p=30550&t=1397&l=2&AvdID=1&CatID=44&GrpID=1&s=pl

its one of the dearer ones though, you'd still need a case, p.s.u and a graphics card.

maxheadroom

I had a look at that one, but it doesn't seem to have the onboard graphics either, so he'd need to buy a new graphics card immediately...

Woden

yeah i don't think it has onboard graphics i think its a fairly high end board and they be thinking you'd be wanting to put a decent one in it, i think the onboard graphics that comes with the nforce2 chipset is only about equivalent to a geforce 4mx IIRC.

kmb

whatever you make sure the fsb ie bus speed is 333 otherwise your wasting your upgrade potential as all new xp processors are 333.if you get 266 bfsb you will be very limited ,just look at the list of cpus in komplett and you will see what i mean!!!!go nforce its the best way!!with 400mhz ddr which is dirt cheap!!

-ADREN-

ehh ook.. damn this is head wrecking just a few little questions

they way ye are talking about this on bored graphics thing.. if i got one of those on the motherbored.. does this make my Kyro2 Gfx card obsolete? As in is it just trash if i bought a mobo with a built in gfx card? Why would I need to get a new gfx card immediatly if I bought a Mobo with out a built in gf card.. whats rong with sloting in my Kyro 2 into a AGP slot?

Thanks again.

-Coz

Woden

If I understand this correctly, if a motherboard has onboard graphics it the motherboard has a graphics chip which can perform the functions of a graphics card for you, similar to motherboards which have onboard sound, they have a sound chip which means that a soundcard is not required. As a general guide onboard sound and graphics chips are not as good as dedicated sound and graphics cards. However in the case of a number of recent motherboards the onboard sound chips are quite respectable delivering good quality 5.1 surround sound.

Also if i understand this correctly motherboards have a chipset that they are based on, currently the best chipset for an amd motherboard is the nforce2 (i think its from nvidia) also if i'm correct the chipset controls the sound and graphics onboard chips if they are present, in the case of some nforce2 motherboards, there is quite respectable onboard graphics present equivalent as i mentioned to about a geforce 4mx graphics card. This standard of onboard graphics would be much better then your current Kyro agp card, but could easily be surpassed by a graphics card for under €200.

However if you have a motherboard with onboard graphics you can still install a graphics card which then thanks precedence over the chip (by some means i know not how).

So if you get a motherboard with no onboard graphics you can use the kyro but it means that your system will be limited by your graphics card as it will be the slowest part of your system. However if you get a motherboard with decent onboard graphics (and you will have to look into it) it will probably make your Kyro obsolete.

The Asus board present in the package above does not provide onboard graphics with a view that a user would want a better graphics ability then the onboard graphics would provide as i know i would however it is meant to be an excellent motherboard

In summary if you are on a budget onboard is probably the best and undoubtably cheapest option, hope this helps

kmb

okay..you need Abit NF7-M mainboard for Socket A
- nForce2-IGP/MCP, ATX,VGA, USB2.0, LAN In stock: 50-99 167.93 147.78 and AMD Athlon XP2200+ 1.8 GHz 266 MHz bus
- Socket A (Thoroughbred) Processor (OEM) In stock:
100+ 115.61 101.73 and cooler Cooler Master CPU-Fan Socket A/7/FCPGA
- DP5-7JD1B-0L, For 1,4GHz, upto XP2600+ In stock:
100+ 19.27 16.96and TwinMOS PC2700 DDR-DIMM 256MB CL2
- Memory 184-P (for DDR-PC333MHz) In stock:
100+ 52.85 46.51 add just a case and your flying..NBthe processor above is 266 bus but it will do the job for a long time until price of barton 333 falls and then your at max fsb which is where u need to be!!!cyas

-ADREN-

what about this one?? just wondering... and dataisgod.. what do u mean by the kryo2 will limit my pcs performance how so.. in what way?

Intel Pentium 4 2.4 GHz Boxed PC400- Socket PGA478, 512kB
€ 206.89


Asus P4S533-X mainboard S478/P-4, LAN
SIS645DX, ATA/133, ATT, SD & DDR-Ram

EUR 83.84 inc. VAT


Crucial PC2100 DDR-DIMM 512MB CL2.5
Unbuffered, Non-parity, 2.5V, 64Meg x 64

EUR 89.06 inc. VAT


Neolec Northstar 478
Neolec Northstar for Socket 478 (Pentium 4 only)
up to 2.5Ghz

Euro 19.00 incl. VAT 21%


ATX Midi-Tower 300W
300W power supply (ATX 2.03 P4 ready)
4x 5.25" external bays
1x 3.5" external bay
3x 3.5" internal bays (1x hidden for floppy)
2x front USB, micro + headset in front
power cable and screws incl.
Dimensions: 182 x 420 x 450mm (W x H x L)

Euro 59.00 incl. VAT 21%


What does that sound like?.. now if I got all that is that everything needed to make a pc?? Do I neven need that Neolec fan thing? and what about a fan for the PSU does that come with it? or is that what the Neolec thing is..

Anyways if so my new pc would look something like this

P4 2.4Ghz
512Ram
Kyro2 64mb 32bit card
13gb HDD


Does that sound like a good rig for

€465's?
not including shipping from komplett + that case is from Marx Computers i figure some day im in dublin ill just go in and pick it up.

So what does that look like?
Would it be better to go with the one kmb sugested the AMD set up, but surely that 1.8Ghz will be out dated faster then the 2.4GHz and I will be looking to upgrade again earlier then that of the p4 2.4GHz one?

Thanks again.

-Coz

Macker

Try here for your case ,they're cheap and deliver country wide

http://www.munstercomputers.com


Macker

Woden

well arden when you put together your new p.c its going to be fairly decent, however if your planning on using it as a gaming machine your games performance will be limited by the kryo graphics card as it will be one of the slowest parts of your system, you would see quite a performance gain i would imagine using a newer faster graphics card such as a geforce 4 ti4200 or a radeon 9500 or so.

can't comment much on your system though i don't know much about pentium 4 motherboards or anything don't be put off though by the slower clock speed of an amd processor its actually name gives an indicative peformance compared to a pentium 4, for example an xp 2400+ gives similar performance to a 2400Mhz pentium 4 even though the xp 2400+ doesn't run at 2400Mhz

dazberry

Originally posted by Dataisgod

However if you have a motherboard with onboard graphics you can still install a graphics card which then thanks precedence over the chip (by some means i know not how).

EEK, be careful here. Most motherboards I have came across that have onboard graphics don't have an AGP slot. So you can only use alternate graphics cards if their PCI.

I've also never seen an onboard solution that doesn't need to use main memory, which has serious performance issues.

Don't get me wrong, I've 2 i810 P2/P3 boards (Slot and Socket on each board) and an MSI Socket A (XP) board that all have fairly good built in graphics adapters, just not for games. The MSI board will only at most register 8mb of RAM for graphics from main memory, which is another issue for most modern games.

D.

Woden

whoops yeah forgot they must have an agp slot, thought most did nowadays but think i just presumed so as mine comp had onboard graphics (2mb lol) but had an agp slot

conZ

or just head into pc superstore in limerick and pick it up

-ADREN-

Ok made up another system much cheaper can some one give me a rough differnce between the two..

This one is an AMD one... less ram though..


AMD Athlon XP2500+ 1.833 GHz 333 MHz bus Socket A (Barton) processor, 512 kb. OEM

EUR 155.99 inc. VAT (EUR 128.92 ex. VAT)


Abit KD7-E mainboard for Socket A (DDR) VIAKT333, ATA/133, ATX, USB2.0

EUR 88.25 inc. VAT


TwinMOS PC2700 DDR-DIMM 256MB CL2.5
RAM 184-P (for DDR-PC333MHz)

EUR 35.78 inc. VAT


ATX Midi-Tower 300W
300W power supply (ATX 2.03 P4 ready)
4x 5.25" external bays
1x 3.5" external bay
3x 3.5" internal bays (1x hidden for floppy)
2x front USB, micro + headset in front
power cable and screws incl.
Dimensions: 182 x 420 x 450mm (W x H x L)
Euro 59.00 incl. VAT 21%

Total Value €345

Since thats cheaper then.. would it be possible to pick up one of those better GFx cards your talking about?? ANd if so what one? How much would I make if I sold my Kyro 2 card?

Thanks.

-Coz

maxheadroom

You really would be better off with the nforce 2 motherboard, as it has a great sound solution onboard, meaning you will never need another graphics card, and its onboard graphics is equivelant (sp?) to a GeForce4 MX440.

That kind of graphics card sells for between €70 - €130 on komplett.

You will need to use some of your system menory for the graphics, but given that you're getting 512 MB it shouldn't be a problem, and it'll be faster than your old Kyro 2 anyway.

Oh, just so you know, the nForce2 is designed to perform better with 2 sticks of memory (ie 2 X 256) instead of 1 stick (1 X 512).

-ADREN-

But would it not be better if I stayed with that mobo i have up there for the amd chip and just baught a GF4 Ti graphics card and slotted it into the agp slot on that mobo? That would give better graphics profomance from the computer right?? and since it comes with its own ram, it wont use the pcs ram??

Woden

yeah you'd be better off getting a dedicated graphics card if you can afford it but i wouldn't get a GF 4 ti4200, when i could get a better ati radeon 9500 for a similar price

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?action=info&p=29009&t=278&l=2&AvdID=1&CatID=24&GrpID=1&s=pl

thats a very decent card for about €225, there is the also a non pro version for about €195


Abit NF7 V1.2 mainboard nforce2 chipset €106
AMD Athlon XP 2400+ @ 2.0Ghz €130
2 X Twinmos 256mb PC2700 ram sticks €90
Socket A coolmaster fan €16
Graphics Sapphire radeon 9500 128mb €195

total about €537 + case

kmb

yes the kde will do you but the nforce is a higher performance motherboard and it has dual controllers which kick out a lot power also the onboard graphics would offset any extra cost over the kde..ps check out creative site for refurbished graphics cards gf4 at a steal inc gf4 4600

Raz

You're really getting a lot of different opinions thrown your way way right now.
Be careful that you get what you want and not what someone else wants

I think you should look at a motherboard with onboard sound and keep your Kyro2 for a while. (there's new GFX cards coming out now and they're gonna drop the prices of the higher end ones already on the market)
Plus it's not that bad a card. 64MBs of RAM isn't that outta date. I've got an nVidia Riva TNT2 with 32MB and it plays quake3 and Unreal Tournament at pretty blistering speeds and it's three years old!
If you do get onboard graphics and then upgrade with a card you'll have to bypass the onboard chip through the BIOS and that ca be scary.

Whether you get an AMD or P4 is a matter of opinion. To the best of my knowledge the AMD chips can do more calculations per second than a P4 but the P4 has faster clock speeds.

One thing I would suggest about getting the motherboard is to check the specifications of the board. For a P4 check things like the FSB speed, if it's Hyper Threading enabled, RAM speeds, AGP speed (4x or 8x) and onboard sound.

I believe the Motherboard is the most important part of the computer because it determines your future upgrade capabilities.
If you're willing to spend a few extra quids on the Motherboard and wait a while before getting more parts this might be a better idea. But think on it yourself, how soon so you want this system going with all it's capabilities?

Well that's my 2 cents Here's a few little bits of extra info for you

[extra bit -- processors]
The P4 seems to have the jump at the moment because they are using Hyper Threading (HT) technology (3.06GHz processor) which means it can perform 2 operations simultaneously, not asynchronously as it was up to this point.
Also processors use a Front Side Bus (FSB) to communicate with the different parts of itself.
Older P4s have a 400MHz FSB and the newer ones have a 533MHz FSB.
Older AMDs have a 266MHZ FSB (I think) and the newer ones have a 333MHz FSB
[/extra bit]

[extra bit -- motherboards]
About the Chipset thingy!!
The chipset is like the heart of the Motherboard where the Processor is the brain. They're very closely linked.
The chipset will come in two parts, the Northbridge and the Southbridge.
One (I can't remember which) will control the CPU, RAM, and other slot based parts (My facts might be a little astray)
The other will control the onboard features such as USB, Sound, IDE bus and others.
[/extrabit]