Why Homophobes should be shot

dendenz · 21-04-2003 12:33pm #1

A good friend of mine recently came out. The reaction by some of his "so called" friends was somewhat surprising. He was shunned by someone who was suppose to be his so called best friend. It shocked to see the stig=ma some people attached to people who were GLB.

Bard · 21-04-2003 12:51pm

Shooting them is a bit strong isn't it?

"And people are homophobic! Well, let them... if you're homophobic I don't care...as long as you're homophobic behind closed doors and I don't have to see it,... I don't care." - Eddie Izzard.

azezil · 21-04-2003 1:01pm

Best friends are the hardest to tell, they think they know you really well then you tell them something like this! they can't help but wonder what else you may have been hiding. True friends will come around eventually, if they don't fuck em!

yellum · 21-04-2003 1:51pm

Bah, you get idiots in every aspect of your life. People reacting badly to your sexuality is par for the course. Some friends would react badly I guess cos they were oblivious to your sexuality and they feel almost silly that they didn't cop it or as Azezil says they might have felt bad that you didn't tell them sooner and that you hid stuff from them.

Sangre · 21-04-2003 7:30pm

Originally posted by azezil
True friends will come around eventually, if they don't fuck em!

LoL I couldn't help but laugh at that.

But azezil is right, holding something big like that (i know he prob didnt know) to a best friend is always important, you have to let them re-adjust.

Think of it through the friends point of you, he'll probably think he cant go to the normal bars and 'pull' girls with him anymore. The friend might fell alienated and afraid of rejection because of a new social cicrle.
Everyone involved has to adjust themselves to this lifestyle change, but give him time.

dendenz · 22-04-2003 4:08pm

I think that homophobes are certainly people in need of an attitude readjustment, to be honest I was a bit surprised at my friend coming out but he'll always be the same old him.

MAC_E · 22-04-2003 4:22pm

A combination of ignorance, miseducation in school/church and a society adjusting to huge changes in its structure are all to blame.

I think people in Ireland are just plain afraid of change at the end of the day deep down.

DeVore · 22-04-2003 4:30pm

I only hate two groups of people.

Those are intolerant of others cultures. The Dutch.
DeV.

swiss · 22-04-2003 7:05pm

Originally posted by DeVore:

Those are intolerant of others cultures.
The Dutch.

Someone's been watching Austin Powers then ;P

Er, anyway, there is a point in all of this. On one hand we all agree that homophobia is probably one of the greatest obstacles a gay/bisexual person seeking acceptance amongst peers can encounter.

On the other hand however, if people do have homophobia, they have a right to their opinions as well. If the gay community seek to have the right to express themselves and the freedom to live the life they wish to live, then we should allow others, even those who have views that we may not like, the same opportunity.

If those views are coloured by hatred (and in my experience, most are) then we can dismiss them as such. We can also try to educate and inform people. Perhaps displaying some patience will help some people to realise that homosexality is not a sexual aberration.

Victor · 22-04-2003 7:34pm

Originally posted by dendenz
Why Homophobes should be shot

Does this make you homophobephobic?

Upset / betrayal (at not being told previously) aside, yes people can be stupid, however if we shot all the stupid people, we would all be dead.

Shinji · 22-04-2003 7:37pm

Speak for yourself, idiot!

Andor · 22-04-2003 7:47pm

Originally posted by Sangre
Everyone involved has to adjust themselves to this lifestyle change, but give him time.

There doesn't always have to be a lifestyle change, from my own experience.
Could be that the friend feels he's been betrayed since he "wasn't told sooner". I dont think i know anyone that'ld just ditch a good friend because he doesn't wanna have sex with girls.

Victor · 22-04-2003 7:55pm

Speak for yourself, idiot!

Originally posted by Andor
I dont think i know anyone that'ld just ditch a good friend because he doesn't wanna have sex with girls.

No, it doesn't work that way. The "friend" is afraid the person who has just come out will want to have (anal) sex with them, which (a) makes them feel threatened and (b) makes them insecure about their own sexuality.

Mercury_Tilt · 22-04-2003 7:58pm

This post has been deleted.

Sangre · 22-04-2003 8:03pm

Originally posted by Andor
There doesn't always have to be a lifestyle change, from my own experience.

But there could be the perception that there might be a change or the fear of it.

Mercury_Tilt · 22-04-2003 8:05pm

This post has been deleted.

Andor · 22-04-2003 8:18pm

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
...but some one just not liking someone is a personal decision that they make for a plethora of reasons.

Hmm, you do have a point...
Its one thing deriding, or beating the crap out of a guy because he has a big spiderweb tatoo on his head, but it is your choice not to mix with him, say if you dont like the cut of his jib, or his haircut.

xx · 22-04-2003 8:22pm

Originally posted by dendenz
I think that homophobes are certainly people in need of an attitude readjustment

Yanno what - was browsing through the forums here for something interesting, and came into this forum. Upon seeing the above quote from Dendenz, it really rattled my cage for some reason. A friend of mine came out recently and I had no problem with it. My justification - I'd known him 13 years and done everything with the guy, played soccer, hung out, went drinkin' etc. so the way I see it is that he's the same guy I've always know, just a little pinker around the gills now. But he does do things that pi$$ me off too, at the same time. He somehow now thinks that he has a license to act 'extremely' camp in public and constantly talk about having sex (a trait that 100% of gay men I've met also have!!!). So, in a way, it might not be Mr. So-called Homophobes fault that he's taking it badly, it might be down to the way his newly come-out friend is acting. When you've known someone a long time, and to see them acting like this is really a let-down. Its like when your parents say to you "I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed". So spare a thought for mr. homophobe, it may not be entirely his fault that he's acting like this.

dendenz · 22-04-2003 8:26pm

The question is though where do we start to educate . The vatican and it's anti homosexual stance is a start, get people to give their opinions and then point out the faults in their opinions would be a start. Educating them in schools is another option. I hate the people who go to church week in week out and who learn "love one and other" and then go out on a verbal bashing of minorities or other communities they deem bad.

DeVore · 22-04-2003 8:29pm

I had a friend come out to me and it transpired he'd told a load of people before me and hadnt told me because he thought I'd react badly.
That really stung but the person in question just thought I'd steamroller over them or tell them to take some vitamin C or something. (I suggested that thats what he might have thought and he laughed saying it wasnt far off).
He was really shocked that I couldnt give a flying feck what he put his dick into so long as he did it privately.

Dont be surprised if some people react badly/well when you tell them, people will always surprise you.

DeV.

dendenz · 22-04-2003 8:48pm

Deep down though its very hard to gauge a persons reaction as from my mate coming out. It's a scary thing coming out I think, takes a lot of courage

Victor · 22-04-2003 8:51pm

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
You must know the guy very well then. :rolleyes:

Maybe I was close to that point. I was shocked when my long time ago (like 12 years) ex told me one of her friends, who I knew, was gay. I had never known any gay people and it was an attitude adjustment. But hey I rationalised it and grew up.

Sangre · 22-04-2003 8:53pm

But hadn't he seen your hair Dev?

HerrLipp · 22-04-2003 8:56pm

I don't really have a problem with most homophobic people. They just lack understanding. Some of my friends were homophobic before I told them I was gay, now they're perfectly okay with things. I think people get freaked out by overtly camp people or something. Of course the old saying goes, the worst homophobes are closeted gay people.

dendenz · 22-04-2003 9:06pm

I was reading an article in New Scientist that showed most homophobic people got turned on by gay porn than gay people themselve which I think Herrlip u hit the nail on the head

Mercury_Tilt · 22-04-2003 9:09pm

This post has been deleted.

Victor · 22-04-2003 9:45pm

Merc, take an Anadin

What I'm saying is my first emotion when my friend told her friend was gay was for me to be homophobic, however I have grown out of that.

dendenz · 23-04-2003 9:14pm

OK Maybe hate is a strong word, but everyone has an element of dislike for someone or something. The people who go to church every Sunday and then spout racist/homophobic/xenophobic remarks, they should be hated for being two faced? Dont get me wrong, but is'nt love thy neighbour and then bashing him completley contradictory?}

seamus · 23-04-2003 9:24pm

Originally posted by dendenz
I was reading an article in New Scientist that showed most homophobic people got turned on by gay porn than gay people themselve which I think Herrlip u hit the nail on the head

Although, people who are quite closed-minded, like homophobes, tend to be stimulated by taboo things in sex too, since sex is a taboo, and it feels good, then combining sex with another taboo will make it feel twice as good! People tend to get off on doing things that are 'banned', whether they're banned by society, their family or even by their own psyche, it's extra fun to combine sex with things you're not supposed to do.

That said, there's a certain amount of truth in saying that closet homosexuals are the worst homophobes. I'm not a homophobe, so I can't be homosexual \o/ (no offence to homosexuals)

Mercury_Tilt · 23-04-2003 9:26pm

This post has been deleted.

dendenz · 23-04-2003 9:30pm

Would it not be the fact that it causes major trouble in this world? If people were to like them then we'd all get on? Simple idea but true

Mercury_Tilt · 23-04-2003 9:38pm

This post has been deleted.

dendenz · 23-04-2003 9:49pm

Beastiality is disgusting but I am talking about attitudes here towards people who have normal relations with another humans who are over the age of consent, not people who have sex with animals. To hate someone purley on the basis that they are in love with someone of their own sex is wrong.

Mercury_Tilt · 23-04-2003 10:52pm

This post has been deleted.

Andor · 24-04-2003 1:21am

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
God I hate writting big long things. I usually get a kicking for it one way or the other.

hmm, well in this case i think it fair to commend your exceptionally big long thing!

you've certainly changed how i feel about grown men in nappies, they all deserve to be kicked in the nads!

Mercury_Tilt · 24-04-2003 8:28am

This post has been deleted.

Kell · 24-04-2003 9:11am

I had so much to say originally, then I read Merc's really ling one which pretty much summed up everything I was going to say in the first place.

The one thing I would say though is that most people undergo an attitude re-adjustment if they find out they have gay friends, but as Merc pointed out there is no reason why they should have to undergo an attitude re-adjustment.

Personally, I am theoretically gay friendly in that I a) I dont see anything inherently wrong with homosexuality however I find it b) distasteful to see any homosexual act, but thats just me.

More than anything I think that my discomfort with seeing gays snog or whatever has made me be a bit more aware of the fact that I might be a little more sensitive towards my gay friends by not parading my heterosexuality around quite so blatantly.

K-

yellum · 24-04-2003 12:54pm

Originally posted by Kell
has made me be a bit more aware of the fact that I might be a little more sensitive towards my gay friends by not parading my heterosexuality around quite so blatantly.

Oh jesus Kell, in fairness ! You're hiding who you are and your sexuality and natural way of acting with someone cos of your gay friends. Stop repressing yourself ! Thats ****ed up that is.

Shinji · 24-04-2003 1:02pm

Teh ironing is delicious

Someone made a good point earlier on about how some people can change after they come out; it's not like a kind of liberation, more like some desire to constantly challenge people with their sexuality. It's not pleasant - in fact it's bloody annoying, even for some other gay people.

I've had - and this is going to sound bizarre to anyone who knows me - a friend that I fell out with after he came out, because he changed over the course of about a month from being someone I could connect with and talk with for ages about whatever, into someone who talked about nothing but sex and sexuality. Fascinating subjects, sure, but it gets a little tiresome having some guy constantly raise the subject and then glance around to see who he's managed to shock with his blatant outness.

He was no longer the person I'd befriended. So we are no longer friends. Sad, but that's how it goes.

yellum · 24-04-2003 2:05pm

Originally posted by Shinji

Fascinating subjects, sure, but it gets a little tiresome having some guy constantly raise the subject and then glance around to see who he's managed to shock with his blatant outness.

Well in fairness Shinjii you have to think about it from your friends point of view. He was keeping this secret to himself for 20 years. 20 years of bottling it up and not telling a soul and not being able to talk about sexuality and sex. He is bound to talk about it for the first few weeks of his new freedom.

Try and stop a new father talking about his first offspring. Generally they'll blab nonstop for weeks about their son or daughter and how cute and small and clever the child is.

Kell · 24-04-2003 2:33pm

Originally posted by yellum
Oh jesus Kell, in fairness ! You're hiding who you are and your sexuality and natural way of acting with someone cos of your gay friends. Stop repressing yourself ! Thats ****ed up that is.

Erm, I wouldn't go so far as to say that I dont act in a heterosexual manner at all around gay friends, I am just aware of the fact that it is hypocritical of me to complain about gays having a snog when I do exactly the same. S'all.

K-

BuffyBot · 24-04-2003 2:34pm

If someone has come out, and some one stops being friends with him solely for that reason, well to be honest, they can't have been that good a friend in the first place.

If some has come out and is constantly talking about it, as yellum pointed out, it's only natural that he wants to talk about it for a while. Perhaps a bit of consideration, and placing yourself in their shoes might be in order. Fair enough if they keep going on about, then is the time to have a serious discussion about it. I think anyone reasonable would respond to that...if they don't, well they can't be that good a friend either.

dendenz · 24-04-2003 9:17pm

Basically what my point of view is hating people who hate others. I know two wrongs do not make a right but if we were to put homophobes in their place then society would have one less problem.

So basically , if I am right (I am home from work and wrecked so excuse me if I break down into my own terms) that its ok for say some sections of society who find beastiality acceptable to exist alongside those who are against it.

I am not trying to put anyone in a box here, merley yes, vent my frustration and try to understand them in some sort of way.

About not showing the gay side of their life and their hetrosexual side, its a free world, people can flaunt what they want but it shouldbe about atitude readjustment and people accepting some people want a GLB or hetrosexual lifestyle.

BTW On the off note enjoy London, this discussion has given me food for thought

BuffyBot · 25-04-2003 7:56am

So you don't like homophobes, because they don't like homosexuals?

Is'nt that a bit of a contradiction? And a bit hypocritical? To say that "I do not like what you think, because you do not like what I do" just a tad crazy?

I don't understand homophobes, but I can't say I don't like them. They're normal human beings like everyone else, who just have a differing point of view.

xx · 25-04-2003 11:29am

Originally posted by HerrLipp
Of course the old saying goes, the worst homophobes are closeted gay people.

Now THAT just takes the biscuit. I wouldn't consider myself a homophobe, but what you said there is absolute crap. Thats just a gay persons way of justifying why some straight guys don't like them. Homo-propaganda. Don't take this personally, but all the gay guys I've met and know have a totally jumped up opinion of themselves, and a saying like this one, Herrlipp, is the epitome of this.
Why can't gay men just accept that not every guy (either a friend or otherwise) thinks they are schway and cool, and supports them in their lifestyle choice. Its a bitter pill to swallow, guys. Me personally, I don't expect everyone in the world to like me for what I am, but I deal with it. Why can't gay men just deal with it too, and stop whinging about it?

DeVore · 25-04-2003 11:53am

Originally posted by Kell
Erm, I wouldn't go so far as to say that I dont act in a heterosexual manner at all around gay friends, I am just aware of the fact that it is hypocritical of me to complain about gays having a snog when I do exactly the same. S'all.

K-

Theres a time and a place for having a snog in public and I have to say that hetro couples eating the face off each other at an inappropriate time or place bugs me as much as seeing two blokes go at it would.

Get a room!

DeV.

yellum · 25-04-2003 12:00pm

Originally posted by xx
Don't take this personally, but all the gay guys I've met and know have a totally jumped up opinion of themselves, and a saying like this one, Herrlipp, is the epitome of this

Eh no, its true for a good few of them. Its a denial thing and a way of distracting people from the truth. Its silly but they think if they act homophobic those around them will never suspect. Its also probably a hatred of what they are. They dislike being gay or having homosexual tendencies so they become the big screaming homophobe.

Not every homophobe is gay. Maybe just a small percentage, but there are gay homophobes. Sad but true.

BuffyBot · 25-04-2003 12:08pm

Originally posted by xx
Why can't gay men just accept that not every guy (either a friend or otherwise) thinks they are schway and cool, and supports them in their lifestyle choice. Its a bitter pill to swallow, guys. Me personally, I don't expect everyone in the world to like me for what I am, but I deal with it. Why can't gay men just deal with it too, and stop whinging about it?

Ah, nothing like a good generalisation, huh?

Shinji · 25-04-2003 12:36pm

Well in fairness Shinjii you have to think about it from your friends point of view. He was keeping this secret to himself for 20 years. 20 years of bottling it up and not telling a soul and not being able to talk about sexuality and sex. He is bound to talk about it for the first few weeks of his new freedom.

Oh yeah, I accept that perfectly. Been there done that got the t-shirt. It's just that six months down the line the previously interesting bloke has become a weak version of Graham Norton; his conversation is all sexual innuendo and the constant need he feels to "challenge" his friends with his sexuality is bloody annoying.

I understand the psychological reasons behind all of it, but it doesn't change the fact that he's not really a person I want to spend time with any more

Sangre · 25-04-2003 4:51pm

Okay I could be completley wrong here because I've never known someone to come out of the closet but here I go.....

Wouldn't someone coming out of the closet mean that want to be able to show their sexuality and their trueselves.
Therefore wouldn't they nearly always act differentrly either showing their true personality or trying to live up to the gay persona. I can imagine that there would be large pressure on seom people to confrom to gay society....MMmmMMMmmm ironing.

So what Im saying wouldn't the person nearly always be different, whether this is a big change or an insignificant one, of coarse this varies with everyone. This means after the guy comes out the friend will have to re-adjust his view of the guy and make up his mind whether he still likes him.

Shinji I see your point, acting/being overtly camp is intensely annyoing and would probably make me uncomfortable in a social situation.

Victor · 25-04-2003 7:09pm

Originally posted by yellum
Not every homophobe is gay. Maybe just a small percentage, but there are gay homophobes. Sad but true.

A certain film comes to mind

American Beauty

Originally posted by DeVore
Theres a time and a place for having a snog in public and I have to say that hetro couples eating the face off each other at an inappropriate time or place bugs me as much as seeing two blokes go at it would.

I crawled out of DNC one night and went to get the last Nitelink. I was slightly disgusted by the male-female couple sucking the tonsils off each other on Parliament Street, but had no problem as I passed the male-male couple snogging on the corner of Dame Street. Maybe it was jealousy (I wasn't getting any from her), maybe it was context

Originally posted by Sangre
Wouldn't someone coming out of the closet mean that want to be able to show their sexuality and their trueselves. Therefore wouldn't they nearly always act differentrly either showing their true personality or trying to live up to the gay persona.

It is one thing for your personality to change, another to become a different person, I think that’s what the point was.

Why Homophobes should be shot

Comments