help with building a new machine

Washout

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the right forum for this post but here goes.

Recently I have been thinking alot about building me a new PC box. ut I have no idea where to start....I know I can salavage alot of stuff from my existing computer which has an AMD Processor.

BUT I now want to get to a state of the art PC latest motherboard technology latest Intel processor. Cool Case

But I have no clue where to start.

I know i can salvage things such as CD ROM and Burner and Hard Disks sound/graphics card from my current machine.

But things like salvaging my power supply and other lil things kind of has me worried as i dont know much about compatability and all that jazz.

Hoping some1 can help me with this so i can kick it off.

J

SouperComputer

BUT I now want to get to a state of the art PC latest motherboard technology latest Intel processor. Cool Case

start by saving a load of money if you want this 3k+!

Why intel BTW?


not worth the trouble saving the PSU and the HD might not be worth it either.

Get a decent amount of RAM and a good raphics card before you go getting a cutting edge processor, unless you like burning money!

Washout

Just dealing with the AMD i have at the moment wrecks my head... never used to have problems with intel machines. but this AMD Chip + motherboard causes me so so much grief.

Special Blue Screen Crashes when i do something simple like plug in my scanner in win2000 wheras 98 is grand.....switching itself off during games....not recognising a second hard drive when 98 doesnt mind it...i dont think these are just OS related issues.

I just want to build a kickass machine.

ive already decided on graphics card the ATI 9700
Sound card i have an SB live so dont need a new one.

Hard disks...recently bought 2 120 gig hds...one with an 8mb cache.

so all i need is a quality case...and the triimings that go with getting anew case like fans and cooling system....id love to hear recommendations

Motherboard...id love a good recomendation on this too.

I can start from there then

PS: Money isnt an object been saving for this for agggeeess...its time to go do

SouperComputer

problem with that gear is that it will set you back a reasonable amount and when doom comes out, youll prob only still get 40Fps!

as far as the BSOD and stuff is concerned, I dont think id label it as an AMD problem. Its not an ECS board with an SIS chihpset by anychance?

persoanlly, id build a good machine now, say

2Ghz CPU, 512 RAM, TI4200 (64mb's are faster generally) or ATI equiv.

rather than getting cutting edge stuff, but tis your wallet

Hyzepher

If you go for an AMD cpu and an nforce2 mobo with some very fast CL2 DDR memory (corsair 3200 or 3500) then you will see some very fast times.

The chipset (nforce2) and the memory are often overlooked when it come to upgrading and these two components determine your performance more than the cpu.

I would recommend the Asus A78NX or the MSI K7N2G - both excellent mobo's. Get a 333Mhz Cpu if you can afford it or the XP2400+. Get at least PC3200 DDR ram - again if you can afford it - make sure it is CL2 rated as CL2.5 or CL3 can slow down your machine.

Both the Asus & MSI boards can cope with Dual DDR if you need it (doubles the bandwidth).

In contrast the Intel option is slower and more expensive.

Hyzepher

Washout

I know ye are are all more AMD inclined but in comparasion what do ye think of the following mobo

mobo im considering

Washout

Right here goes with what im thinking of so far

Asus P4G8X/DELUXE/GD mainboard S478
E7205, Dual DDR, S-ATA, GBLAN, IEEE1394

Intel Pentium 4 2.66 GHz Boxed PC533

Corsair TWINX1024-3200LL DDR-DIMM 1024MB
Kit w/two matched CMX512-3200LL DIMMs


Sapphire Radeon 9700 Atlantis PRO 128MB
AGP, ATI 9700PRO, DVI, TV-Out, Retail

Those four items alone are roughly 1300 Euro.

On top of that need a case with power supply and fans and some cables.

everything else i can salvage from current PC

so total may end up to be about 1600 Euro.

Worth it or no? or anything Equiv?

j

Hyzepher

Personally I would get the Athlon option and save a bucket load of money. The performance you will get from the P4 wont warrant the over expeniture. Athlons are good overclockers as well so you can get a lower spec cpu and run it at a higher rate.

Up to you though.

Hyzepher

Washout

divyaksh\rma...namashkar

do you work for intel??? lol

Cyrus

Get at least PC3200 DDR ram - again if you can afford it - make sure it is CL2 rated as CL2.5 or CL3 can slow down your machine.

why would u get pc3200 ram for a ddr333 cpu?? running ram async on nforce 2 is slower than in sync so nothing to be gained there, and to run a mobo at 200 fsb atm u usually need a vdd mod and decent nb cooling

In contrast the Intel option is slower and more expensive

i just got a 1.8a for £75 sterling currently sitting at 3.11 gigs hardly more expnsive and slower:rolleyes:

SouperComputer

what settings are you using with that northwood BTW?


People place too much empahsis on the CPU. If the fsb is too high, youll piss off your PCI devices which includes the IDE controller.......loss of performance and possible data messup for the sake of a few sheggin Mhz?

Dear friend
one thing i must tell you and that is only buy INTEL processor as AMD is just crap.
I had an AMD at my system but that was just disaster...
anybody who is buying or planning to buy a pc, please please and please do not buy AMD ,,,untill unless u want to pay some extra money for servicing guy.....

so better buy finest technology INTEL only
bye

div

this is the most objective and informative post ive seen.

youve certainly convinced me!

TacT

OMG I'm so gonna buy intel from now on, I mean considering the fact I'm running an amd machine with win2kpro on an ecs mobo (sis chipset) and haven't had so much as a murmur out of it, rock solid and stable and reliable :rolleyes:

get outta town

RicardoSmith

I running a P4 1.8a@2.4 which is nice because everything else stays in spec. Very stable machine and quiet too. In fairness the AMD are much improved lately, though my own experiences with them were a nightmare also. Luck of the draw I guess. You still see people having problems with AMD rigs though and rarely with Intel rigs. That said the one AMD rig I have left has been as stable as the P4 from day one. Runs alot hotter and noiser though.

phaxx

Moved to tech. Read the hw tweaking charter!

Stephen

Back in the days of the K6-2's AMD's certainly were inferior to Intels, but I think their current products are just as good. I've been running an XP1800+ for about 9 months now without a bother, I'm very satisfied with it.

Someone mentioned his AMD system running noisy and hot... AMD's do seem to run quite hot, but its nothing some basic cooling won't sort out. CPUs themselves obviously generate no noise, so I'd say the noise mentioned is from a crappy fan.

Ryo Hazuki

one thing i must tell you and that is only buy INTEL processor as AMD is just crap.

In your experience...

Ive never had a problem with AMD
Always works just fine.

exytra money for servicing guy

Dont moan about AMD just cause you dont have the knowledge to fix it yourself.

And what type of problem did you have? You couldnt get the chip in the socket?

Do you work for the intel corp?

RicardoSmith

Enough drivel about crappy fans and personal insults. Keep it for the playground will yah!

If something runs hotter it needs more cooling to cool it. More cooling is more noise. Rocket science it ain't.

Apart from the latest P4's intel cpus have always run cooler than the AMD's so you could get away with a lot less cooling on intel cpus. My 1Ghz AMD runs a lot hotter than my P4 1.8a even when overlcocked to 2.4ghz.

The P4's have a heat spreader cap on the chip with helps to dissapate tyhe heat better. Its only a small difference but it still helps.

Also the intel cpus won't burn themselves out, so there was less risk with using less cooling. If the fan on your cpu dies, the p4 will protect itself from damage. Most (but not all) the AMD chips won't. And yes this did happen to me on an AMD chip, but I was lucky and was using a software temp alarm could see there was a problem and shut the machine down just in time. The chip was burnt and blackened but is still working fine. But thats just luck.

Most of the recent AMD rigs now seem fine, but the early KT133 VIA chipsets especially with creative sound cards had lots of issues and this put a lot of people off. The SIS chipsets these days seem to have some issues too. Theres websites and forums full of this. Sure Intel have had their problems too so lets not look through the rose tinted specs all the time eh?

The latest P4's are generally more expensive, but the lower end P4's which overclock well aren't. The latest AMD chips are becoming expensive though, so the price difference isn't what is used to be. The perfromance is roughly similar too, whereas before AMD had a bit lead, Intel are now slightly ahead.

Washout

Originally posted by SouperComputer
what settings are you using with that northwood BTW?


People place too much empahsis on the CPU. If the fsb is too high, youll piss off your PCI devices which includes the IDE controller.......loss of performance and possible data messup for the sake of a few sheggin Mhz?

Hi SouperComputer...This is the kind of help i need when you talka bout settings for the northwood but im not entirely sure what you mean. Im no hardware whizzkid. just want akickass machine and the joy of building it meself.

What do you mean by fsb?

J

RicardoSmith

Front Side Bus. Its the speed the CPU talks to the motherboard and the memory at. These days you can set the speed to the motherboard or memory independently. So they can run at different speed. For example on a 1.8Ghz P4 the FSB speed is 100mhz. The speed to the motherboard is 100mhz and the memory is 400mhz.

However different types of memory technology run at different speeds, so theres a lot of variety in these settings. My old Athlon is running at 1Ghz which is 100mhz fsb. I could also run it at 133mhz or the board at 100 and the memory at 133. By overclocking it to 140fsb the the Athlon 1Ghz ran at 1.4Ghz.

Incidentally graphics cards also contain a CPU and Memory which run at different speeds. Overclocking them involves changing these settings too. The following hopefully, will now make some sense...

3D Mark 2001(SE I think) (1024x768 32bit colour)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Axia 1ghz at 1ghz (133/100) + GF2Ti450 (451/250) = 3768
Axia 1ghz at 1.4ghz (140x10) + GF2Ti450 (451/250) = 4432
Axia 1ghz at 1.4ghz (140x10) + GF2Ti450 (481/275) = 4577
Axia 1ghz at 1ghz (133/100) + GF4Ti4200 (default) = 6578
Axia 1ghz at 1.3ghz (133x10) + GF4Ti4200 (default) = 7452
Axia 1ghz at 1.4ghz (140x10) + GF4Ti4200 (default) = 7696

Cyrus

People place too much empahsis on the CPU. If the fsb is too high, youll piss off your PCI devices which includes the IDE controller.......loss of performance and possible data messup for the sake of a few sheggin Mhz?

hmmm it seems ur knowledge of current intel chipsets is lacking?

most new intel mobos have pci and agp lock so of course i have no pci problems

the chip is at 18*172 with the ram at 213 or so using the 4:5 ram divider.
Vcore is up to +10% and its watercooled

RicardoSmith

You're starting to temp me with your watercooling Cryus

Cyrus

ill show it ya mate when im finished my exams and its set up the way i want, sometime in may

so u can see my silent goodness

SouperComputer

hmmm it seems ur knowledge of current intel chipsets is lacking?

most new intel mobos have pci and agp lock so of course i have no pci problems

That I didnt know, but its handy!

To me OCing is a waste of time. If you can OC a chip by a big margin (remeber those celerons?) then you are being overcharged for the chip in the 1st place!

When I get a new mobo or CPU or whatever, ill OC it a bit, just to see, but I couldnt be arsed leaving it at those settings.

Although for what I hear of the next Doom, I mightn't have much choice!

ive wanted to go watercooled for a while to try it, might bring s kit home any reccomendations?

Cyrus, did you just get the cooler block for the CPU or did you go for the GFX and PSU blocks too?

Cyrus

hi mate,

well tbh i think 1.2 gig overclock is nice the reason i bought this 1.8a is cos i knew it was a c1 stepping and thus was gteed almost to do 3 gigs, so ive basically got £450 worth of a chip for £75

im only wc the cpu atm, my gfx card has a zalman heatpipe on it so its silent and my nb on the bh7 is passive . i bought the wc stuff more for quietness than uber cooling. ill prolly buy a gpu cooler soon tho

RicardoSmith

The difference in my 1.8@100fsb and 2.4@133fsb is very noticable in some of the games I play. Was certainly a big saving over getting a 2400XP or a P4 2.4 CPU. I haven't pushed mine much further because I couldn't face any downtime at the moment if I have any problems.

SouperComputer

actually cyrus, whats the specs on your machine. Make and model of board etc, I might give it a go when I get home.

Cyrus

I have:

Abit BH7 newest abit p4 mobo, its the i845pe chipset which has been superceded by dual channel 'Granite Bay' chipset but this is the newest Single channel chipset.
Mobo is ready for new 800 fsb cpus, has every overclocking feature u could want, agp/pci lock, vmem up to 3.05v, v-core up to +30%(but +15% is highest u should really go) 4:5 and 3:4 memory dividers etc top notch and not too expensive either from komplett

Also have a p4 1.8a its a c1 stepping cpu, u know this for certain by the fact default v-core is 1.525 instead of 1.5. The only gteed c1 cpus are the 2.5a, 2.6a, 2.66b, 2.8b and the 3.06 altho u can get c1 stepping in every other p4 nw it cannot be guaranteed.

the ram i have is a 512mb stick of twinmos pc3200, i845pe mobos dont like 2*256 they prefer 1*512 for higher speeds

Gerry

Originally posted by SouperComputer
That I didnt know, but its handy!

To me OCing is a waste of time. If you can OC a chip by a big margin (remeber those celerons?) then you are being overcharged for the chip in the 1st place!

I think it might make more sense to say that you are avoiding being overcharged.
If you can overclock a chip stably, then you've saved money. I don't see how you've wasted time. Just because high end intel p4's are bad value, doesn't mean you can say they all are, given the high overclockability of a 1.8 - 2.26 p4. I can see that you've actually given this some thought now, and are being much more reasonable which is good

Gandorf

I recently bought an ABIT NF7-S v1.2 with a XP2100+ (TBredB - 1730Mhz) and 2x256MB Pc3200 Twinmos (great memory!) from Komplett. The 2100+ is running 100% stable (prime95, memtest, 3DMark2001, lots of general use) at 10.5x200fsb = 2100Mhz.

This was an easy overclock using a €19 coolermaster heatsink (copper base) which is quiet and registers about 48 degrees at load. It'll probably even go higher but I don't like to push too hard 2100Mhz is fast enough for me!

Board = ~€147, chip = ~€100, memory = ~€100. It flies. If you're looking for a cheap/high performance option it's well worth considering.

RicardoSmith

What 3D mark do you get out of curiosity?

Gandorf

I just use it for stability testing on infinite loop

I'll run it tonight and post the result... but with a GF3 Ti200 I'd guess it won't be great?

Cyrus

that xp 2100 could be good for up to 2.3 gigs mate i had one that did 2.3 nps

however i presume its the xdream hsf u are talkin about, that is one noisey fan, even at the lowest setting it offended my ears!

Gandorf

OK, my score in 3D Mark 2001SE @ 1024x768 32bit colour with a MSI GF3 ti200 and old 30.82 dets (I like 'em, they're reliable) is:

dum dum du du du du duuuuuum .... 8759

So, er.... is that any good?



Cyrus, no it's actually a super not-very-good CP5-6J31C which according to Komplett is rated to 2800+ but according to Coolermaster is rated to only 2600+


I want to buy a Vantec AeroFlow.... I've asked Cat over on the Elara board can he get one for me... I found it in the UK except the site wanted to charge stg£22 for shipping... and the cooler is only stg£24!

Anyone know where I can get one cheap ?

RicardoSmith

With that card its not bad. Though you could quite easily get a lot higher with a slower main rig (cpu) and a faster gfx card.

Cyrus

try www.theoverclockingstore.co.uk and selecet free shipping u normally get it

or this place is good www.1coolpc.com its in the us but there prices are same as uk only in $ so works out cheaper shippin isnt too bad

Gandorf

Can't seem to find the Vantec at www.theoverclockingstore.co.uk. They have it at www.1coolpc.com but hmmm... ordering from the states makes me nervous :rolleyes:

I've also been recommended the Thermalright SK-7 . It's cheap (well . . . in the US!) and supposed to be really good.

On the graphics side... I can play the few games I have fine on the current setup. IMHO Trying to keep up with the latest graphics cards is as futile and as money-wasting as trying to always have the latest, greatest CPU. I always buy behind the curve.. hence the XP2100+ rather than something faster. Bang per buck is what you want to go for. When a killer app won't run on your box, then it's time to upgrade....

... unless you REALLY want to of course

Cyrus

ive bought two hsfs from them mate and they are excellent imo

del about 1 week

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Gandorf
Can't seem to find the Vantec at www.theoverclockingstore.co.uk. They have it at www.1coolpc.com but hmmm... ordering from the states makes me nervous :rolleyes:

I've also been recommended the Thermalright SK-7 . It's cheap (well . . . in the US!) and supposed to be really good.

On the graphics side... I can play the few games I have fine on the current setup. IMHO Trying to keep up with the latest graphics cards is as futile and as money-wasting as trying to always have the latest, greatest CPU. I always buy behind the curve.. hence the XP2100+ rather than something faster. Bang per buck is what you want to go for. When a killer app won't run on your box, then it's time to upgrade....

... unless you REALLY want to of course

...You make mucho sense...I buy on the trailing edge aswell, and leave the bleed edge for those with sense < money