RTE to launch new digital teletext

Icehouse

This from Tracy Swedlow's ITVT update:

SkyDigital Teletext Service
UK-based broadcast technology company, Sysmedia, has been chosen by Irish public broadcaster, RTE, to provide the technological infrastructure for its new digital teletext service on the SkyDigital platform. The service, which will be available to SkyDigital viewers of RTE's 2 channels, RTE1 and Network 2, will be a digital version of the broadcaster's existing analog teletext offering, "Aertel." Sysmedia's Plasma Magenta content-management and production system (note: Plasma Magenta also supports Sky's own text- information service, SkyText, allowing Sky to publish identical content on television, the Web and mobile phones) will enable RTE's journalists to publish common content to both analog and digital platforms (they will be able to preview content exactly as it will appear on the TV screen, according to Sysmedia) and will also allow content to be taken in XML format from the network's existing content-management system and from 3rd-party content providers. Viewers will be able to continue to watch TV in quarter-screen mode as they use the new service, which will provide news, travel information, sports scores, bookmakers' odds, weather forecasts, and the ability to link to advertising and sponsor pages.

irishgeo

when we likely to see it but great all the same.

how long before we a red dot on RTE

ShaneOC

Hopefully this will be the start of RTÉ moving toward proper digital applications. I wonder what the BCI has to say about all of this. The licence that RTÉ got for broadcasting on Satellite stipulates that the output must be the same on all platforms. you could argue that the content of the digital teletaxt is the same, it is just the presentation that differs.

Of course you could say the same about anamorphic widescreen.

Icehouse

>>when we likely to see it but great all the same.

Dunno, but more importantly how many *years* does one have to be on these boards before one is no longer a 'newbie' - It gets irritating after a while, particularly when I hate being regerred to anything that ends in 'ie'....

irishgeo

its not based on time registerested its the amount of posts you make. So to get ris of the newbie tag just post more.

JDxtra

I emailed RTE about widescreen and they said their contract with the BCI would prohibit such a thing.

You never know though - the more people who email them about such things, the more likely they are to stand up and do something about it!

As for the "newbie" thing... It's based on the amount of posts you make not how long you have been registered - up at the higher end of the scale (1,000s of posts) you get a status of "No Life"!

byte

<<<< Yea, a No Life, like me!!

Anyway, back on topic, I look forward to a digital text offering from RTÉ. It will be interesting. I suppose it would take about a year, maybe Xmas at the earliest, to be able to use the digitext service.

sceptre

Considering we're effectively paying for RTE twice (once with the TV licence, once due to their being only on Family pack or higher), it's about bleedin time.

icdg

Sysmedia Limited: Press Release

RTÉ’s AERTEL GOES DIGITAL WITH SYSMEDIA’s PLASMA MAGENTA

SysMedia is pleased to announce that it has been awarded the contract to provide the production solution for RTÉ’s new digital text service on the Sky platform. In a two-phase project commencing March 2003, SysMedia’s technology will enable RTÉ, Ireland’s public service broadcaster, to bring digital teletext to satellite viewers.
The new service will allow satellite viewers of RTÉ’s two television channels, RTÉ1 and Network 2, to browse a digital version of its AERTEL teletext service. At the completion of the project RTÉ will have a single production system for both analogue and digital AERTEL services.

Using SysMedia’s PLASMA MAGENTA content management and production system, RTÉ journalists will be able to author and publish common content on both analogue and digital
platforms. Content will also be taken from RTÉ’s existing content management system and from other external content providers in XML format. Through the advanced user interface, editors can preview all content exactly as it will be displayed on viewers’ screens, and PLASMA MAGENTA gives them considerable flexibility to create a dynamic information service that can quickly respond to changing editorial needs.

“AERTEL is an established service and therefore in moving to digital text the choice of supplier was very important. The great advantage of PLASMA MAGENTA is that it is a packaged product and therefore we have avoided the pitfalls and risks associated with bespoke or self-created solutions.” says Richard Murphy, Managing Editor, RTÉ Interactive.

Colin Prior, SysMedia’s Business Development Director, shares Richard’s views: “Along with the ability to browse the digital teletext service while keeping the TV programme
available in a quarter-screen window, users will be able to access up-to-the-minute news, travel information, sports scores, bookmakers’ odds, weather and all the other topics
currently so popular with Irish viewers – with over 1.8 million teletext users now in Ireland, AERTEL is one of the primary national sources for up to the minute information on a wide
range of topics. Add to this the ability to link directly to advertising and sponsor pages, as well as other interactive services, and it’s easy to see why both parties are excited about
the prospects this technology migration brings”.

“I’m delighted that RTÉ will be joining the ever-growing club of broadcasters who use PLASMA MAGENTA to create their digital text services” sums up Prior. “We look forward to working closely with RTE to bring a world-class interactive TV service to Irish viewers”.

watty

Stupidity!!!

A "digital" version of teletext is not needed.
1) Teletext is itself digital
2) Teletext on Satellite is carried on a separate cheap low bandwidth channel
3) Any TV around the house tuned to the Digibox can access Teletext, only the viewer at the Digibox can use Digibox text.
4) Digibox Text interfers with a recording, Teletext does not.
5) Digibox text on existing channels has proven to have niether more speed (often slower) than "FastText", nor better content.
6) Accessing Digibox Text or Interactive "kills" the picture for a viewer in another room.

An Interactive service (Like with "Walking with beasts" BBC) is NOT text. It is a separate service from watching a TV program someplace between a TV program and true interactive CD or Internet application (A bit akin to DVD video interactive on DVD player rather than PC, except SLOWER as accessing a video has to wait for the stream to cycle in real time back to beginning).

"Next View" as used in Germany and Switzerland on Satellite is unlike stupid "Digibox" text, fast, and even built in to many TVs, thus accessing it does not automatically kill your recording or picture in an oher room. Optionally it can be accessed on many Digital Receivers like Sky EPG and Sky Text (if TV does not have it built in) is on a Digibox.

Why oh why do Irish Institutions so often follow those nearly not Eurpoeans the UK, rather than avioding same mistakes, rdoing own research or following a European Standard.

RTE "lock" themselves further into BSkyB....


Exit Rant.

JDxtra

Let's not get upset here!

I personally think it's a good move by RTE, and a step in the right direction. Ordinary Teletext is so dated looking - it's time to move on! I don't care if if it will not be the fastest possible text service in the world - but it's an established service on Sky that works, and it will be relatively easy for RTE to get it up and running quickly.

End of counter-rant!

watty

We only use the BBC "digibox" text because the "teletext" has been removed.

BBC World Text is cut down to nearly nothing with no replacement.

CNN (americans who don't even have teletext in USA) do a great Teletext service on Analog and Digital Satellites.

Should the "font" used be more important than useability?

Digibox text offers only a slight cosmetic advantage and lots of disadvantages.

Another example of RTE wasting Licence payers and taxpayers money on something that does not add content.

They need better programs.

That they should be allowed to do this and NOT allowed to have animorphic broadcasts of WS films is bordering on incompetant!


Sky Digibox text is a NON-Standard, ill-thought out "pretty" service that works badly.

There ARE new Standard services for Digital Platforms that do offer advantages over Teletext. Sky Text is not it.

BrianD

Sceptre, you're not effectively paying for RTE twice! You pay your licence fee and you have chosen to have it delivered to your TV via DSAT and you pay a sub for that priveledge

dmeehan

i thought the BCI required rte to have the same on analogue and digital platforms?

sceptre

Originally posted by BrianD
Sceptre, you're not effectively paying for RTE twice! You pay your licence fee and you have chosen to have it delivered to your TV via DSAT and you pay a sub for that priveledge

I might agree with you if I could receive any terrestrial broadcast. I can't receive RTE without a dish (which because RTE is only on the Family Pack (as opposed to being available with a free card like the BBC is in the UK) means paying for the Family pack at least). Hence my "choice" is limited to whether I want to receive any TV or no TV. If I want to receive TV, the only option for me to receive RTE is by paying a carrier to transmit that picture to me. Aerial doesn't give me any picture at all. No teletext either (veering vaguely back towards topic). Hence to have a TV that can receive RTE, I need both a TV licence and a subscription on a pay platform. Therefore to receive RTE, the only option I have is to pay twice. Not twice as much (though as it hapens a family pack sub for 12 months is over 300), just twice. No option of getting RTE by just paying the licence fee and buying a TV. I put the word "effectively" in there for a reason.

QED

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by dmeehan
i thought the BCI required rte to have the same on analogue and digital platforms?

is that only for programming or for everything. if it is for everything then RTE will never be able to use things like widescreen etc. because it wont be like that on analogue

i remember the BCI didn't seem to care when GAA and that international soccer game weren't shown on DSAT. another crowd of pussycats it would seem

nice to see RTÉ doing something because digital teletext is a better start than doing nothing

Tony

Originally posted by Mossy Monk
is that only for programming or for everything. if it is for everything then RTE will never be able to use things like widescreen etc. because it wont be like that on analogue

I've seen RTE use widescreen on satellite, mainly 14/9 ratio, they can use PAL plus on analogue so I guess its not an issue.

Tony

Icehouse

I for one think much of RTE's programming stinks, and the TV news is terribly insular (or when they do 'world' news it's only from where they have established correspondents (not RTE employees) like Israel / or there's an Irishg angle - then again I s'pose the Brits are guilty of that too) - one of the few things RTE have impressed me with is the constant news updates on Aertel and it's direct link to their website - I think that was a great idea, so hopefully their tech team will continue to move forward with a digi-teletext.

I agree with the above comments that Sky's teletext system is not tops/is slow, but RTE wouldn't have the power/money to dictate to TV or digibox manufacturers a new system. Hopefully they'll start with just a relooked Aertel by satellite and add interactivity as they go along. The ideal for those overseas like me would be if Sky Digi viwers could just pay individually for those channels they want and the Television Without Frontiers programme could be reworked to allow anyone in Europe/within a satellite footprint to watch legally whatever channels they want. Oh, I'm dreaming...

watty

Originally posted by Tony
I've seen RTE use widescreen on satellite, mainly 14/9 ratio, they can use PAL plus on analogue so I guess its not an issue.

Tony

But was it "Letterboxed" or Animorphic.

The PAL PLUS "helper" info to give almost animorphic resolution is a brilliant idea. But the bulk of WS TVs and hardly any 4:3 TVs with Animorphic support actually implement the recovery of helper info (Detail transmitted as a wideband fake colour signal in the black letterboxing bands).

Does RTE actually use PAL PLUS?

AFIK you can't send PAL PLUS encoding using DVBs MPEG2. Though we talk about "PAL" DVDs and "PAL" or "NTSC" Digital Satellite, The MPEG2 Digital transmission does not actually use PAL colour at all.
The differences between so called "PAL" and "NTSC" on Digital are:
576 lines vs 480 lines
The way the Analog is sampled or Digital is created in terms of relative samples for Y and UV

The "helper" info can't be sent by Digital Satellite as MPEG2 does not use a Colour carrier as PAL analog does.

So if 14:9 PAL PLUS letterbox was used, a terrestrial viewer with full implementation of PAL PLUS WS TV would get a sharper picture vertically than the Digibox or non-PalPlus terrestrial viewer.

Satellite is always 720 x 576 dots. For Animorphic, the dots are regarded as more rectangular, so you need a 16:9 image (1.78:1) either on a WS TV or a 4:3 TV that reduces its height as if it had a 16:9 Tube.

The Digibox can either output animorphic as is, or resample the 4:3 region of the image to be 720 wide again, losing the sides and horizontal sharpness. OR resample the vertical 576 lines to about 460 losing vertical detail, but preserving the sides and adding black bands for ordinary 4:3 TVs that can't reduce the height.

All images are thus either letterboxed in a 720 x 576 frame that either is meant to be displayed at 4:3 shape or 16:9 shape.

A 14:9 non-animorphic picture has wasted lines top and bottom. (Black bands).
A 14:9 Animorphic picture must have wasted black stripes at the sides, but uses all the vertical lines. It is thus too tall on a simple 4:3 TV, but correct on a WS TV or a 4:3 set that reduces its height for Animorphic.


Animorphic WS only "fills" the screen with out black bits at 16:9 (1.778:1). Less wide than 16:9 you must have black bands at side, more wide (i.e. Cinema 1.85, 2.35, 2.7 etc) you get more and more black bands top and bottom.

Conclusion
So if the Digibox is set for a WS TV or a 4:3 TV that automatically can reduce height, with a 14:9 RTE image:
1) If it has black bands at top it is 4:3 Letterboxed, not animorphic and worse than Pal Plus.

2)If it has black stripes at sides then it is "letterboxed" in Animorphic (Ehnanced WS mode in DVD speak). It is better than terrestrial.

I can believe that occasionally RTE transmit 14:9 or even films at 16:9 or wider. But I have only ever seen letterboxing in 4:3 mode on Satellite.

Anyone spotted an RTE Terrestrial 14:9 letterbox using Animorphic on Sky? (BBC do, in fact insanly the BBC occasionally do 4:3 images "letterboxed" in a 16:9 animorphic frame, which is equally bad for WS TV and 4:3 TV as EVERYONE then loses 1/4 of the horizontal detail).


Anyone confirm if RTE actually uses PalPlus "Helper" transmissions on Letterboxed Terrestrial?

icdg

Originally posted by watty
BBC do, in fact insanly the BBC occasionally do 4:3 images "letterboxed" in a 16:9 animorphic frame, which is equally bad for WS TV and 4:3 TV as EVERYONE then loses 1/4 of the horizontal detail.

This quite insane mode of transmission is used for the ABC News on BBC News 24. It looks horrible, a viewer not in the know might ask "is something wrong with my TV" as they get black borders not only at the top and bottom, but at left and right as well! They may have a committment to transmit News 24 in 16:9, but for the one 4:3 programme on the channel, could they not show it in 4:3.

Anyway, rant over, and get back on topic!

Aertel / RTE Interactive might not be regarded as a programme service by the BCI, and therefore may well not be subject to a programme contract.

rlogue

I'm all for any kind of expansion of RTÉ services, so maybe they could provide some extra services on the digital text service...

Incidentally, this "newbie" tag irritates the hell out of me too. I'd actually post more often on the forum if I didn't have that stupid 'newbie' tag against my name. I've been on here daily for nearly four years now! I'm not a 'newbie'!!! Grrrr.....

Richard

irishgeo

catch 22. you are a newbie simply because you dont post more beacuse of the newbie tag.

The tag is related to your post count. the more you post the quicker the tag goes.

byte

Originally posted by irishgeo
The tag is related to your post count. the more you post the quicker the tag goes.

I think Newbie status is changed when you post 100 posts or more...

Gwan RTEi!

Jasper

Originally posted by watty

Anyone confirm if RTE actually uses PalPlus "Helper" transmissions on Letterboxed Terrestrial?

I don't think that that they do, but I am trying to find out.
Getting through to someone in RTE that knows this kind
of info is proving to be quite difficult.

Skyuser

No sign of this yet...

Antenna

watty wrote:

Stupidity!!!
3) Any TV around the house tuned to the Digibox can access Teletext, only the viewer at the Digibox can use Digibox text.
4) Digibox Text interfers with a recording, Teletext does not.
5) Digibox text on existing channels has proven to have niether more speed (often slower) than "FastText", nor better content.
6) Accessing Digibox Text or Interactive "kills" the picture for a viewer in another room.
.
.

Hopefully RTE (unlike BBC) will keep the existing teletext going in parallel with Digibox text, so no one loses, and can use existing teletext if they need to avoid the above.

What about TV3 and TG4, will they soon jump on board with Digibox text?

watty

Supporting a Cable TV provider! Huh!. They don't make a special service for UPC. Why Sky?

Wasing licence payers money on Sky sub payers

7) Digibox text won't work on FTA box or Reelbox

(ends rant)

byte

At this stage, they'd probably be best making the digital text work with DTT, not Sky. At least that'll be one of the few extra benefits (along with WS) for having DTT over analogue.

Batesy

I cant get aertel by pressing 'tv' then 'text' downstairs through the SkyHD box but can get it upstairs on the multiroom box??

Would this be something to do with the HD box being connected to the downstairs TV through HDMI??

byte

Actually, I've never tried getting teletext via a HD signal (using HDMI).

Though, when a normal Sky box decides to stop showing text, a reboot does the trick. Maybe try a reboot on the SkyHD box?

Batesy

I'll try a reboot tomorrow and check it out.

Batesy

Tried the reboot but it doesn't work. Looks like you can't get Aertel through HDMI??

JohnC.

I always use the RTÉ website for Aertel these days.

watty

No. HDMI won't do Teletext.
Connect a SCART AS WELL to same TV and switch to SCART when you want teletext.

byte

watty wrote:

No. HDMI won't do Teletext.
Connect a SCART AS WELL to same TV and switch to SCART when you want teletext.

Hmm, thanks for clarifying that. Bit of a shame.

Widescreen

Folks, haven't read the entire thread very carefully, but on a general note regarding RTE text they would want to get their act together on the basic text which is so slow to update its laughable,especially when a goal is scored in a soccer match.Digital text generally is not as quick as the old style so that doesn't bode well for the RTE version. Prove me wrong and I'll hold my hands up but I'm not over confident on this one :-(

The Rooster

I also fail to see what people are getting excited by.

Aertel at the moment is a decent teletext service. I have full confidence that when the digitaltext replaces it, it won't be as good. I can see no benefit digital text has over teletext, but many downsides.

Krusty_Clown

The Rooster wrote:

I also fail to see what people are getting excited by.

Aertel at the moment is a decent teletext service. I have full confidence that when the digitaltext replaces it, it won't be as good. I can see no benefit digital text has over teletext, but many downsides.

I wouldn't get too worried... The original post was from March 2003.. :eek:
On a positive note, Icehouse is no longer a newbie!

Antenna

watty wrote:

CNN (americans who don't even have teletext in USA) do a great Teletext service on Analog and Digital Satellites.

CNN appear to be winding it down unfortunately. I tried CNN teletext during the week. No news anymore, news on their teletext has been discontinued, it gave a URL instead!

netwhizkid

Yes CNN have discontinued it and it is a pity, First thing in the morning for me was to check RTE AERTEL, CNN Text and then read Sky News Active which in my opinion is an excellent news service and one RTE Should Model themselves on for their Digital Teletext on DTT and Digital Satellite.

watty

Very sad. Still getting my news summary same content as slooower BBCi on BBC Worls Teletext on Hotbird.

Also some on TV7 Tunis on Hotbird.