Legalise Cannibis?

Kell

Just going by the other threads here I wanted to see what you guys thought of legalising cannabis. So, lets have your opinions.

JohnK

I say legalise it. It's less dangerous / addictive than cigarettes and alcohol so give people the choice. If someone wants to smoke it let them. If someone else doesn't want to smoke it then they don't have to. People should have the choice.

pickarooney

I say don't legalise it, as this move would adversely affect my lucrative international narcotics smuggling business.

Mad_Patrick

I was pulled by DS a couple of weeks ago after getting a half ounce. I was pulled coz I was seen leaving a dealer's house, they didn't find it but I really don't need to go through sh!t like that. Now I have to find a new dealer. If it was legalised it would get rid of scumbag dealers and we would know that what we have is safe. Also we would know that we're getting some good stuff. I say its high time we forced polititions to take their heads out of their asses and legalise it

DeVore

Legalise it and cut the legs from under the the criminal drug world.

DeV.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Acidflash

free the weed!! don't see the harm in it myself

Chad ghostal

If it was legalised the governement would tax it up the yazoo..
but we could rid our shores of hash and get some quality weed..

would magic mushrooms be included in the legalisation as it is in holland(i think)?

John2002

Should be definitely legalised imo. Wouldn't it be great to not have to go to those dodgy places and meet up with seedy individuals to get a bit of smoke??

A car I was in was searched and the cops found a joint. The smoke was squished down beside a seat luckily. They actually went to the trouble of sending the joint to the lab and were going to charge my friend with having an illegal substance. FFS, what a waste of time and money and effort because of one lousy joint. The sooner it's legalised the better as far as I'm concerned.

Lafortezza

have never smoked it myself,
but legalize it to be smoked in pubs? in cafes? in general public?
or only in your home and "certain designated places"?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Kell

Home and certain designated places, such as hash bars. With such a glaringly obvious one, I am surprised that the cops havent followed suit with Britain. I would love to see what the stats are like now in Britain in comparison to what it was before de-criminalisation. OK, there are no hash bars, but there was a huge movement over there up for it. I think we should start one here. Any takers?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

would magic mushrooms be included in the legalisation as it is in holland(i think)?

aren't shrooms legal, so long as they are fresh and not dried out?


and I'm all for legalising cannabis, it's just another drug and there's no sense treating it as a big bad mind killer.

John2002

Originally posted by Mordeth
aren't shrooms legal, so long as they are fresh and not dried out?

I heard that before too not sure how true it is though.

Kell

AFAIK possession and consumption of shrooms are fine, so long as they're not dried out, but methinks picking them is illegal. Just another daft legal loophole that they use to get around the issue of shrooms.

The other interesting thing about the laws perspective on cannabis is how much they sensationalise the value of the hauls. I remember reading an article sometime ago in the times and they said it was a haul worth x on the market. I did the math between weight and street value and came up way short of the published value. I mean way short. I e-mailed the journalist and asked if this was the figure he was told to publish by the Gardaí or one that he had made up as I figured that based on the articles figures a lot of people where getting stiffed. Fair dues, he mailed ma back and said, "yes. The Gardaí told him how much the find weighed and what value they placed on it" He knew too that they were way off the mark. Cops wantonly engaging in sensationalism. What next?

Typedef

psilocybin (shrooms) is not thc (hash).

Magic Mushrooms are alot more like LSD then hashish and our younger viewers are much more likely to have a serious psychotic event consuming them.

I know..... bad Typedef.... free whatever etc etc etc.

DeVore

yes Shrooms are not hash.

Shrooms can be very very powerful too. If you are absolutely insistent on taking a psycho-active as strong as LSD then shrooms are better then tabs.... but I heartily recommend against it. Seriously.

DeV.

DiscoStu

just think of saturday night in dublin or any other urban area in ireland if hash was legal. no fights and 24hour shops and fast food places will do even more business. everyone wins.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

em yes I am quite aware that shrooms are not hash

I've done them once before and had a great time. *shrug*

Cheez

Ireland is not ready for legalisation
We're far too small minded and get to big for our boots
so to speak very quiuckly with regards to drugs
They're treated in binge terms like the drink
we consume,"i took about 4 yolks in 3 hours!"
clap clap fair play to ye
"i took mushies and had a bad experience"
ye didnt read up on them to find out they're mostly about
set and setting(a cold street aint too good off ur t!ts)
and its about letting go of the ego u hold so dear
(aw bless)

I for 1 wud love top quality stuf like in Holland
but with the sh1te the goverment give us now
do ya think they'll do better with cannabis
a drug they still slot into the "oooh bad" category
because its about the acquisition of feelings rather
than material goods/possesions/weapons of mass destruction

/end rave

Chad ghostal

Like hash/weed shrooms come in many different varieties, some very mild and others nearer the lsd side of things.. AFAIK the shrooms in amsterdam are quite strong and the shrooms found around ireland are much much milder.. .

If hash/weed was legalised it would also bring up the smoking driving problem where people (much more than presently do) would be demented stoned and driving, and id imagine it could be much harder for the gardai to tell if people were stoned.. .

Clintons Cat

Legalise it,

No point in criminalising otherwise law abiding citizens.

DeVore

Originally posted by Chad ghostal

If hash/weed was legalised it would also bring up the smoking driving problem where people (much more than presently do) would be demented stoned and driving, and id imagine it could be much harder for the gardai to tell if people were stoned.. .

What makes you think people drive stoned less often now?
Theres no problem in getting hash if you want it. Anyone who would smoke under the new decriminalisation laws is already smoking now I can tell you

Anyway... testing for people who are driving stoned is easy. Equip all Gardai with a two-litre of coke and a box of chocolate animal-crackers... piece of piss.

DeV.

KdjaCL

Originally posted by DeVore

Anyway... testing for people who are driving stoned is easy. Equip all Gardai with a two-litre of coke and a box of chocolate animal-crackers... piece of piss.

DeV.

LMAO

Legalising i think would be a bad move, everyone raves about holland and going there for the weekend (which i have done) but seriously would anyone actually live there???

Mates go to Denmark a lot and see the same thing a place where its legal and full of scumbags.

Dont assume it wont happen if its legal over here you will still have to go to some slum area in Dublin(tallaght ) and it wont be all happy smiley land.

The area where its legal will be a slum in all aspects of it.

Kdjac

DeVore

Jesus I'd live in Amsterdam in a second!

Clean streets, **** all polution, lower crime rate, friendly people, carnival air to the place as all the hippies and stoners juggle and play music etc...

DeV.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

yeah, i was in amsterdam (and another city in holland, twenthe) for a week or more a few summers ago and I had a great time.
I didn't smoke at the time, inhaling would make me cough up my lungs (n00bs :rolleyes: hehe) but the cafeswere pretty much all very clean and nice places, the streets were clean, didn't notice any trouble..no fights or anything like that

I'd love to live in holland (maybe not amsterdam, not much of a city person ), it's a damn nice country.

Chad ghostal

I know there are people who drive Stoned out of their nuts i was just saying due to the increase in people smoking, which would probably be considerable at the start untill the novelty wares off, that there would be far more people on the roads with the reaction time of a large oak tree. .

KdjaCL

If i go to Galway or Sligo or any LOI away ground for a weekend away i think its a great place but thats simply because im in weekend away mode and im in a great mood and all happy due to beer and hash.

But i wouldnt live in Galway or Sligo ,its great fun for a weekend but once happy weekend away mode ends, it becomes a filthy village in the middle of nowhere.

Amsterdam is an awesome place to go for a weekend your paying enough for it you damn well gonna enjoy it and love the place.
But ever look around your surroundings whilst sitting in a hashbar ,streets in Tallaght look clean and nice and carnivally but what lives there isnt.it attracts scum,the type of scum you really dont want to see gathering in one large area.

*Sligo and Galway,Tallaght used as examples ,residents of said places ,dont get mad.

Btw i live in Neilstown in Clondalkin within a few yards of Neilstown Shops and Finches shops so i can see what these places are like whilst its not legalised.

kdjac

Dawg

I think the driving stoned thing is a bit of a red herring, reason being hash is already available to anyone who wants it. People who would drive stoned after legalisation are already driving stoned.

I lived in Holland for a few months and never had any probs over there, there's as much chance of runnin into scumbags in town (Dublin) as in Amsterdam or any other major city. Having these clowns crawlin out of a coffee shop stoned is much preferred to them fallin out of a pub pissed imho.

Legalisation= more money thru taxes, less violence on streets (maybe not much but any improvement is welcome), less otherwise law-abiding ppl having to deal with scumbags, and most importantly better smoke for all.

Zascar

I rarely drink and drive, and when I do it is only 2 pints, 3 max, and never more... However I do drive stoned quite a lot... The thing is that I am a far better driver when I am stoned than when normal. I'm a fast driver, someties very fast, and I suppose soe people would reguard me as a hazard to the roads in general. However, when I am stoned I am the perfect driver! I do not want to drive fast, or take risks of any sort, be it overtake, brake a red light, speed, or generally anything that might increase the chances of me getting pulled by the cops.

I have actually been pulled by the cops twice when stoned, and I was perfectly able to talk to them, and they had no rason to believe I was DUI.

I think hash should be legalised to some extent, but I would haev to say that it definitely does lead to trying/using harder drugs... Most people who smoke a fair bit will at soe stage try others such as shrooms, E, Coke etc, especially the younger generation, i.e. teens. However it is debatable wherther it would lead on to heroin etc. Personally I dont think so as I think that Heroin is a huge step above all other drugs and a person can not be as easily lead/perswaded intp such hard drugs like that whether they smoke hash or not...

I think If any drug should be banned it should be alcahol, but that is another thread all together...

SprostonGreen

Yeah legalize it, or at least decriminalise it.

Some cops are clueless, they see it in the same light as smack. That said I've known of some cops that smoke hash.

We need more decent weed in this country and less skanky hash.

I've really cut down on it, in the last six months, ironically since I came back from Amsterdam and Copenhagen.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Yes but...
Only with a drastic overhaull of legislation in Employment law and the Road Traffic Act, and new guidelines on the opration of machinery etc.

Before all this as well, there would have to be forethought as to how it could be taxed and make money for the taxpayer, so we could tax all those peeps coming over from hollyhead for a score.

Overall, i dont see any serious debate on the issue in the next 10 years. The politicians dont want blood on their hands if the whole thing went pear shaped in a manner analagous to Alchohol in the hands of Irelands Youth.

bonkey

Originally posted by 80project
Yes but...
Only with a drastic overhaull of legislation in Employment law and the Road Traffic Act, and new guidelines on the opration of machinery etc.

Not to mention a reliable method of testing.

jc

The Gopher

If I may add my 2 cents I dont disapprove of people smoking hash in moderation(hell,there arent many people who never have).
But IMHO hash is treated too softly in peoples opinions.It seems to be seen by the media as a by and large harmless drug which, much like alcohol,is fine if taken responsibly and so forth.
In my experience it is not entirely harmless.You can tell from somebodys appearence that they have a hash problem.Their hair is unkempt,they are half asleep etc.Its not an entirely harmless drug.
And as for crime I know somebody who has stolen mobile phones and hundreds of euro in order to buy hash.The assumption that it is the drug of peace and goodwill is ludicrous.I know dealers who have ended up getting severe beatings for trying to move on on another guys customers.
So,much like alcohol,hash is relatively harmless to use on a rare basis but to be using it daily is certainly a problem.So in conclusion im against legalisation.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by 80project
Yes but...
Only with a drastic overhaull of legislation in Employment law and the Road Traffic Act...

Not to mention the social welfare system.

SloanerF1

Let's put it this way: if we were allowed to go back in time, would we ban cigarettes? Surely the answer is yes, not only because of the suffering that they have caused, but also because of the cost of looking after people whose lives they have ruined.

The main reason cigarrettes were not banned was that "no one knew that they were harmful", although this claim frankly baffles me. How wrong these people were. Therefore, our current lack of knowledge about the long-term effects of cannabis use cannot possibly be advanced as a reason for legalising it.

I know that many people will say that failing to legalise cannabis pushes its abuse further underground. But, you would be surprised how many people will be deterred from doing something if it is illegal, despite the seemingly amoralistic times we live in. For example, how many tourists to Amsterdam who would never think of smoking cannabis in their own country do so there simply because it is legal?

I think I've proven my point.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

cannabis doesn't have to be smoked though, it's a versatile little drug

and if it were legalised, then research could be done on better ways to take it..
ahh, the possibilities

Typedef

If there was some way to reduce the hangover time of hash consumption then I would support it's legalisation.

Ostensibly, my main (read only) opposition to cannabis' legalisation is that if you smoke a joint today, your short term memory will still suffer degridation for roughly three days in my personal experience.

I accept this as subjective fact, however I would offer a slightly more objective view on this particular point.

http://www.idmu.co.uk/canmem.htm

There is dispute as to the duration of any cannabis effects on memory and performance. In a study of 3 regular marijuana smokers, Heishman et al found no subjective intoxication or tachycardia 24 hours after marijuana administration, although there remained impairment on arithmetic and recall tasks, concluding "These preliminary results suggest that marijuana can adversely affect complex human performance up to 24 hours after smoking.".

So, even though I am an environmentalist, in this case I would support a creation of a hybrid strain of cannabis via eugenics or genetic engineering to make a 'safe' 'marketable' form of THC available to the public, who's effects on complex human functioning would not last longer then eight to twelve hours. Yes this proposition goes against my personal views on genetic engineering and eugenics, however it is pragmatic considering the fact that cannabis consumption will most likely 'never' go away.

So make the after effects of cannabis consumption less of a long term diminution on complex human functioning and I would support it's legalisation, in principal.

SloanerF1

Originally posted by Mordeth
cannabis doesn't have to be smoked though, it's a versatile little drug

and if it were legalised, then research could be done on better ways to take it..
ahh, the possibilities

The effects would inevitably be the same. The only exception would be its use as a prescription drug for medicinal purposes.

article6

I am opposed to the drug. How unpopular.

Since it dulls mental performance, and we do not know its long term effects, we cannot safely legislate for it.

We do not know its long term effects because the instant gratification leads its abusers, the people who would be most markedly affected by it, to other, clearly more dangerous drugs. The effect in those who use it less is less defined, and they will also not be as inclined towards the other drugs. I suspect that the stimulation of the brain, over long periods of time in particular, produces lasting effects on the neurons.

Cannabis's position as a "gateway drug" to introduce potential addicts to the quick fix drug culture cannot be ignored.

Legislating and taxing the drug will serve to convince ourselves that the problem has gone away. There will be no funding for cannabis research as we watch the crime figures fall (due to it not being a crime any more... but who'll notice? Apparently, *everyone* does it. If so, not a single person would have opposed it on this thread.).

There are more ethical and positive ways to destroy drug baronies, such as increased prosecution and investigation powers, if the civil liberties groups will stop their baying.

It is typical of this instant, money-based society that we demand our right to a quick fix of happiness, rather than working for it, like a hobby such as... model aeroplanes, maybe. (No jokes about sniffing the glue.)

To summarise: Legalising cannabis would be a risky, dangerous, and unethical way of making money for the State. I therefore fully expect Fianna Fáil to do it.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Kell

The Gopher- your hair only goes whackey and you look fúcked all the time when you are smokin like 10 plus joints a day. This isnt what the discussion is about. If you take moderate smoking (once or twice a week, month whatever) vs moderate drinking, even binge smoking comes up trumps vs what people will get up to when on booze binges.

Driving- interesting programme done some time ago on TV. On the bunch of people tested, the ones that were marginally stoned had a faster reaction time and better hand eye co-ordination than sober people. Why? Being slightly stoned speeds up motor reactions and removes thought going through a processing centre before asking your muscles to do something. Also, your more paranoid when stoned and things seem faster than they are. Example, crusing home in a mates car one night, all slightly stoned me in passanger seat, white knuckled asking the driver not to drive so fast. "What are you talking about" he says "I am doing thirty". Added to that theres a whole bunch of hand eye co-ordination things I can do stoned that I cant when pissed.

Lastly- gateway drug? My arse it is. All the dope smokers that I know and all the dope smokers that they know smoke dope and thats it. It doesnt stand to reason that you would go from one kind of drug that mellows you out (dope) to another type of drug that speeds up everything (amphetamines, E, speed, Coke, Heroin etc etc). Thats like a personality change. I think were dope gets it's bad name status is that as a teenager, you're going to try everything and find out what you like. Some stay with dope, some dont, but they were going to try the other stuff anyway so why blame it on dope?

Before anyone gets the idea that I am a dope fanatic, I havent bought any in over a year and smoke about three times a month max, I just think it's stupid not to legalise something that 1 in 3 does anyway.

Mnemoniac

Originally posted by KdjaC
everyone raves about holland and going there for the weekend (which i have done) but seriously would anyone actually live there???

Mates go to Denmark a lot and see the same thing a place where its legal and full of scumbags.

Dont assume it wont happen if its legal over here you will still have to go to some slum area in Dublin(tallaght ) and it wont be all happy smiley land.

The area where its legal will be a slum in all aspects of it.

Kdjac

I have to pick up on this one even if I'm a little off topic in the process.

No offense, but you've got a pretty strange take on things.

I moved from Dublin to Amsterdam years ago and I'm quite happily
living here and bringing up my daughter in the centre of the city.
There are two coffeeshops on my street and I don't live in a slum.

It's true, you see a city differently if you're on a weekend bender
with your mates than if you make your home there. Anyone living in
the centre of Dublin can vouch for that. But the availability of
marijuana in Amsterdam doesn't make it any more full of scumbags than
the availability of Guinness in Dublin. Trust me on this one.

And you don't have to go into a coffeeshop in Amsterdam any more than
you have to go to Temple Bar on a Saturday night.

Amsterdam is a beautiful, progressive, free-thinking city with a lot
to offer on all kinds of levels, including cultural, artistic and
sporting (I'm off to see Ajax v Arsenal tonight!). As it happens it has
drugs and prostitutes to offer too. Does that mean that the city
"attracts scum"? Sure the city attracts scum. Which city doesn't?
But Amsterdam attracts much much more than that.

In any city, people will find their own level. It's just that, in
Amsterdam, there are more levels.

While I'm at it, another fallacy that needs to be debunked is that
marijuana is a gateway drug. The entire Dutch system of tolerating
coffeeshops is based on the fact that this is false.

Kell

Originally posted by Mnemoniac
While I'm at it, another fallacy that needs to be debunked is that
marijuana is a gateway drug. The entire Dutch system of tolerating
coffeeshops is based on the fact that this is false.

Hooray for informed thinking. One of the main reasons I think why the entire population of Holland doesent smoke, and Mnemoniac you can correct me on this, is that the legal hash smoking age in Holland is somewhere around 14/16 so by the time kids have hit there late teens they have grown out of the stuff, whereas here most kids start their experimenting at 16/17+. I remember being away on a trip in the Uk years ago with a bunch of school students from Holland. I was all "wow. it must be great that you can do hash etc" and they were like "so what?" Point is, it didnt really interest them.

I think the government here is afraid of en mass explosion of hash smokers whereas theres that many smoking the stuff already, I cant honestly see where the explosion would come from exactly.

The Reaper

i want it!
though it is pointless to discuss it i think!

Zukustious

By god it would be so much safer if it were legalised. You'd know where it's coming from and you could sue if you got some bad stuff. Like bat poison or cat poison mixed in.

I don't think it should be advertised. It should be peoples free choice to use and I don't want peoples minds to be influenced too much by an outside source. You should definetely think about it before using it. My apologies if I sound like a narc.

SloanerF1

Originally posted by Zukustious
By god it would be so much safer if it were legalised. You'd know where it's coming from and you could sue if you got some bad stuff.

Like I said above, you'd be surprised how many more people would do it if it was legal, so the problem would increase.

Shinji

you'd be surprised how many more people would do it if it was legal, so the problem would increase.

You're making two assumptions here that you don't seem to be able to back up;

Firstly, that more people would use it if it was legal. I've not seen any studies that suggest this to be the case, and I think the huge proportion of the population who already use or have tried cannabis tends to suggest otherwise. It is not a difficult drug to get hold of and very few people are concerned with the legality of it, as far as my own experience would suggest.

Secondly, that it is a "problem". Cannabis has not been linked with crime in the way that hard drugs have; there is no medical proof that casual use of the drug has long-term effects; and there is equally no proof for the oft-cited "gateway drug" claims.

I support the legalisation of cannabis because it would remove a significant source of revenue from criminal groups, it would free up a great deal of wasted police time, it would bring more revenue into the exchequer and it would stop a large proportion of our people from being technically criminals due to the social or recreational use of a drug which is every bit as safe as tobacco or alcohol.

By the way, in an earlier post you said this....

if we were allowed to go back in time, would we ban cigarettes? Surely the answer is yes

No, actually, it's not. If I was allowed to go back in time I would make sure people were informed of the risks and facts surrounding tobacco use, but I would not ban cigarettes.

The difference between you and I, it would seem, is that I believe in informing the people and allowing them to make educated decisions; you believe in allowing the state to make their decisions for them. I don't want the government to tell me what brand of toilet paper to use when I wipe my backside, thanks.

Rnger

I dont want it legalised for the following stupid reasons:
Its more fun when your not suposed to do it! Until the day i get arrested or some I know gets arrested for something cannibas related, that will be my opinion.

Download "The irony of it all" by The Streets. It's funny cuz its true...

theciscokid

cannabis > the correct spelling for those who didn't spell it right - is and always will be illegal in this country

i don't think it should be legalised and hope it never happens

its bad for you, besides causing dozens of unwanted symptoms and also the risk of further problems down the line after one has stopped using it

75% of people in mental institutions are there because of marajuana/cannabis smoking - thats a fact and some counselling centres argue that its higher.

if your life is good at the moment why bother?
yeah its a good feeling and all, but not worth the troubles that find you later on down the line..

yes it does depend on the character but that isnt the point , its banned for a reason and thats to protect the young who cant really decide for themselves at the age they encounter it

i have had two friends who see shrinks because of their smoking habits in the past, thats no joke

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

75% of people in mental institutions are there because of marajuana/cannabis smoking

really

wow
I believe that. I'm never smoking again..

its bad for you, besides causing dozens of unwanted symptoms and also the risk of further problems down the line after one has stopped using it

instead of just assuming we all *know* what these symptoms are.. would you mind elaborating on that?
also how exactly does it cause problems in later life after usage has stopped?