VB SQL Server Contracting

BanjoDanjo

Just wondered what peoples thoughts are on Contracting.
I'm contracting myself, but keep hearing from people that contracting is dying and that they are quitting contracting. It doesn't seem that way to me, I always seem to have another offer on the table even before my contracts are up. Rates have remained the same for the last year though. You get offered E250 per day but thats them talking c?ap. When i say no to 250 and tell the agencies not to even talk to me about less that 350 i get called back by the same companies after a week or so. 350 is still good even though it was up to 500 2 years ago. In the last year i've decided i don't get enough time off. Now i think i'll work 9 months and take 3 off.
Rates in the UK seem to be between 300 - 500 sterling.
So i'm thinking of going there for 6 months at that rate , having 6 months off possibly. I'll see how things go.
Anyway, thats my story. I just want to know how everyone else is getting on or are they falling for interviewers scare tactics.
Bottom line is that there will always be contracting work.
So let me know your experiences.
One more thing...
No ranting on about job security
I was talking to a guy in my current company last month on 1/3 the money the contractors are on. Said he prefered to have security over money.
He got let go last week due to staff cuts. No contractors got let go (different budget). More money is security. If work can work 6 months and get enough money to last 12 months then thats security don't you think.

dazberry

BanjoDanjo,

You've either being working in a bubble that collapsed for everyone else I know at least 18 months ago, or taking the p1ss.

I've no probs quantifying that statement, post a reply and I'd be (un!)happy to explain

D.

RicardoSmith

Ditto!

yop

Must be some time delay in your net connection as this is the biggest pile of pony! Someone is kidding someone here and unless I am wrong every single contractor will tell you the market is in bits, rates have dropped by about 60% on some jobs and if you can give us the agency that is getting you contracts at this rate then we will believe you. Rates in the UK are about 20-25 per hour max, unless you are extremely skilled and definatly not in VB.

BTW - Enjoy the cornflakes when you wake up

RicardoSmith

You'd do better with the Banjo, Danjo

BanjoDanjo

This is exactly what im talking about.
I keep meeting people that tell exactly the same story as you guys. There is definitely no shortage of vb sql server jobs at the moment. You must all be talking to the wrong people or not be able to talk the talk at the interview (a very common problem i run into when interviewing people. Some people have way too high an opinion of there skills).
I have good contacts from all of my previous jobs and normally they put me in touch with people looking for contractors when i need work.
There are one or 2 agencies that i get calls from every week or so.grant it not 3 times a day like it used to be, but the jobs are there. I have several friends with the same skillset as myself and they are working all the time too.
To be honest i thought it was just banter from the pub, but it turns up here as well.
Anyway my contract is up soon so i'll see what its like now.
I've a couple of interviews lined up for this next week so i'll see what the employers have to say.
I don't know for sure about the market in the uk, but it seems absolutely fine here. If anyone has anything to add please do.

RicardoSmith

I think you'd better get on to the agencies with this news flash BanjoDanjo as for some reason they are all advertising the same 10-20 jobs for the past 6 months. They would probably pay you to refer the jobs to them.

Though I agree theres no job security and you'd be aswell contracting as anything else. My experience is that everyone I know, now knows someone who isn't working at the moment.

Theres about 5% of the contracts there used to be, being advertised, and while you may not get your contracts from this source its a strong indicator of the state of the market.

yop

Can we get this right here, or have we got it wrong?

You are living in Ireland? or is it Iceland?

You are working in VB?

You can get loads of contracts and interviews?

So if there are then there is no reason for you back up your claims and tell us the agencies that you use?

BanjoDanjo

It seems to me that you guys are going through the popular agencies. By the way those agencies advertise non-existant jobs. I worked for on a while back. They put lots of fake jobs up. Makes them look like they have lots of contracts.
There are certain agencies and certain ways to look for work that people don't seem to use.
Anyway, since that seems to be what gives myself and my friends an advantage, i'm hardly going to broadcast it.
Suffice to say that you need to know what you are doing to find a job. Its a skill in itself. Probably more important to learn than vb sql server. And do you're own work rather than relying on an agency to hold your hand. You'll get better results.

jank

so how much are u earning a year and do u include a blow-job with that or what!!!
250 a day is a lot of money it seems to me like over a grand a week!!
300-500 a DAY sterling. is that like a normal eight hour day or do u bust ur ass for like 18 hours
seems to me like ur living on a differnet planet and i know **** all about contracting

cant wait to finish collage if its true granted i mightn't be as skilled as ye but it takes it takes time which i have!:P

oh my work placement is coming up soon and i dont have a job do u wnat to take me on!! i make the best cups of tea and i can drive u around in my fiat!!:) if u pm me ill tell u what i do

WhiteWashMan

what agencies do you use then?

yop

what agencies do you use then?

Has been asked before and will not say, that is how we know he/she is talkin pure rubbish or on a perfect universe.

BanjoDanjo

Guys,
cop on.
I started this thread to get info from other contractors and maybe swap info, but all that seem to be here are flamers.
You guys are talking ****e.
Quit the flaming and say something sensible.
I use 2 agencies.
Not going to tell you who they are.
I also use an interview coach.
They find out about the job, interviewers and technology being used and then coach you for the interview for that specific job.
Also have one fantastic source for jobs which most people haven't copped on to yet.
Thats going to remain a secret for now.
From what people say here, i can tell that they would be useless at an interview - You probably go in and tell the interviewer how crap the other people you worked with are and not what you have to offer.
Like i said, only heard about the 500 a day in uk form a friend whos over there. Havent checked myself.
250 a day would be minimum here.
So anyone got any sensible CONTRIBUTIONS to make here.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
....From what people say here, i can tell that they would be useless at an interview - You probably go in and tell the interviewer how crap the other people you worked with are and not what you have to offer....

So thats where I'm going wrong...doh! Seriously you're living in a bubble. Enjoy it while it lasts. My experience of agencies is that they are generally dire. I find all my work myself and the agencies find squat. I'd say 80% of my colleagues have also found them to be terrible. The other 20% haven't used them yet. Any contractors I know who are not Irish have indeed packed up and gone to other countries. Why would they have done this is things were as rosy as you are making out?

yop

From what people say here, i can tell that they would be useless at an interview - You probably go in and tell the interviewer how crap the other people you worked with are and not what you have to offer.

dribble, dribble -- More rubbish again, so from what we are posting you can tell we would be rubbish in interviews!!

So anyone got any sensible CONTRIBUTIONS to make here.

Could we start with the person who started the thread!!


Just for the record I know 9 contractors who are out of work, and none of us got about 200 yoyos per day in our last contracts.
Going from what the other lads are saying they are in the same situation.
Reading the papers and boards the whole IT world is in a downturn.

So pls pls come into the real world or tell us the IP address of the parallel universe you are on so we can teleport across!!
:rolleyes:

RicardoSmith

In fairness I still know a few people who are still getting continuous contracts back to back. But they are in the minority and they are going back to places the've worked before. They are not seeing any new projects on their contracts. However to think this is the norm for everyone is plain dumb. This thread can only be a troll.

logic1

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo

So anyone got any sensible CONTRIBUTIONS to make here.

Well you certainly don't. You come in rambling on about how great you are, how wonderful the agencies you work for are then won't give anyone sources for this info so they can find out for themselves? Are you afraid your skillset is so low that others could so easily take away your contracts?

.logic.

yop

Gwan the logic1, my son.

I have a feeling this lad has now been kicked into touch

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
Guys,
cop on.

careful now....

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
I started this thread to get info from other contractors and maybe swap info, but all that seem to be here are flamers.

so when are you going to start swapping information.
you have come on here and made claims. they have been refuted by the majority of people, if not all, and you have given nothing in response.
if you want some information, then you gotta give as well.
by the way, you didnt actually ask for information, you asked for peoples experience, and thats what you got...

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
I use 2 agencies.
.

who are they?

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
Not going to tell you who they are.

why?

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
I also use an interview coach.

i use a coach to get to the airport sometimes.

whats your point caller?

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
They find out about the job, interviewers and technology being used and then coach you for the interview for that specific job.

well good for you. but again, whats your point. this has no relavance with the amount a contract is paid, it just prunes you for a job. and frankly if you need that, then you cant be that bloody great that you dont know what to say yourself....

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
Also have one fantastic source for jobs which most people haven't copped on to yet.

really?
what is it?

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
Thats going to remain a secret for now.

i got the power.. i got the power...
why will it remain a secret?
afraid that other people might start getting the jobs?

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
From what people say here, i can tell that they would be useless at an interview - You probably go in and tell the interviewer how crap the other people you worked with are and not what you have to offer.

lets face it, after this entire post from you, i wouldnt brag.
no, seriously.
i also think you need to think about what you say, because by assuming these things, which you are, you are just making yourself look foolish. arent you glad im not on your interview board today?

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
Like i said, only heard about the 500 a day in uk form a friend whos over there. Havent checked myself.

then you should state facts, and not hearsay.

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
250 a day would be minimum here.
So anyone got any sensible CONTRIBUTIONS to make here.

i think youve got to ask yourself, have you got any contribution to make?
ive asked you to release the names of the agencies, and you have ignored me.
so why dont you tell me why you are so sensible, and i am not?

DeVore

Actually he's right.

Yes the market is in shít and yes contracting rates are not what they used to be. (I contracted for a number of years before starting Spin).

However, its very relative. If you are good, have a good skillset and good communications skills you can get contracts like he's talking about. The gravy train of contracting has slowed somewhat but that just means that the blow ins of kids who had 2 years vb experience and an ego have blown out again and the hardcore of 5-10 year experience battle-veterans are still pulling down big bucks. (250 is bottom of the barrel).
My flatmate is pulling down 400 a day and has been for nearly 2 years solid now.

MS-SQL is a decent skill to have because its sought after but enterprise sever-side Java (J2EE) and Oracle DBA are better.

All that has happened is that you now have to fight for those contracts and compete in the interview, instead of just turning up. However the tops guys will always get paid top dollar.

Its tougher, but its not extinct...

DeV.

Hobart

Have to agree with you there WWM. Although I am currently contracting inIreland and getting paid over 400 per day so it's not that bad (16 - 18 hour day on Tuesdays rest of the week is 8 hour days) . Have been contracting for the last 5 years and have yet to use an agency. My skill set is in Product Design (Platforms) IP net works, most ODBC DB's (from a design and support perspective). I was thinking of getting into the cisco area and doing 12 - 18 months in the UK (prob London). Whats it really like over there at the moment WWM? Will the market pick up in the next 12 months?

Typedef

Contracting hmm?

Better money then I get in my permenant job, 'less' job security, but, the wisdom from contractor-type people I know is that they (and their friends) have rarely if ever been out of work, in eleven years of contracting.

Par example, one of the Directors of my company was a contractor for the company, before he was made a Director of the same.

Gleaned information is that he was and is earning about 100k (Irish) per year... *gasp*.

Ergo, good idea.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Hobart
Have to agree with you there WWM. Although I am currently contracting inIreland and getting paid over 400 per day so it's not that bad (16 - 18 hour day on Tuesdays rest of the week is 8 hour days) . Have been contracting for the last 5 years and have yet to use an agency. My skill set is in Product Design (Platforms) IP net works, most ODBC DB's (from a design and support perspective). I was thinking of getting into the cisco area and doing 12 - 18 months in the UK (prob London). Whats it really like over there at the moment WWM? Will the market pick up in the next 12 months?

dunno, i think you must be mixing me up with DeVore. i know nothing about SQL contracting.
i only asked that DanjoBanjo stop being silly and answer the questions asked.

Hobart

Sorry m8. Thought you were based in the UK. My mistake.

[EDIT] and just seen this link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85349 [/EDIT]

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Hobart
Sorry m8. Thought you were based in the UK. My mistake.

i am based int he UK, but i still dont know anything about SQL contracting

Hobart

I was asking about Cisco (probably didn't make that clear) and was enquiring as to the Jobs situation in General.

WhiteWashMan

oh right.
as with ireland, the situation is tight, but there are always jobs.
you just need to be better at them than the next bloke.
but the pay is higher.
as for cisco specific jobs, i dont know. i guess there are probably positions for people with cisco along with other skills.

/me wanders of to actually search jobs database in uk

Earthhorse

Although this article is based on American figures I wouldn't say the Irish or English market is behaving very differently.

Bucking the downward trend were corporate security jobs (up an average of 5.5% in base pay and 3.3% in total compensation), plus jobs for experienced networking professionals and for application systems developers working in e-commerce-related areas.

It goes on to say

The highest paying? Rapid application development/extreme programming, XML, SQL Server, WML and Oracle database and enterprise applications skills.

These areas also seemed to have bucked the trend of falling salaries present in IT at the moment.

BanjoDanjo

Glad to hear at last some people have come in who know what they are talking about.
Devore you probably said what i was trying to say in a lot fewer words than i could.
This thread really does show up the 'where did you catch that fish, so i can go there and take some for nothing' type.
Anyway, form the treatment you get here, i'm most definitely going to help anyone out here.
Its like doing the old 'Oh yes you are, oh no your not **** here.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
Glad to hear at last some people have come in who know what they are talking about.
Devore you probably said what i was trying to say in a lot fewer words than i could.
This thread really does show up the 'where did you catch that fish, so i can go there and take some for nothing' type.
Anyway, form the treatment you get here, i'm most definitely going to help anyone out here.
Its like doing the old 'Oh yes you are, oh no your not **** here.

well thats a shame.
if you wont help people out, then i suggest you go away and dont come back.
after all, if someone came on here saying that they knew a position you were looking for waas up for grabs ob 600 quid a day, youd want to know about it.
but, if youdont fdeel inclined to share, then leave. this isnt a boasting site, its a discussion forum. your discussion has added nothing, and you havent actually given any proof or backed anything you have said up.
so go, walk out the door, dont turn around now, coz you aint wanted anymore.

oh, and any more rubbish from you and i will ban you, regardless of whether devore agrees with you or not.

BanjoDanjo

Whitewashman,
Sounds to me like you have a problem with somebody keeping a secret from you.
Sorry about that.
You'll ban me,
Who has the power now
I don't think i've said anything that deserves banning for. do you?
By the way,
Some of you here know me personally. Not telling you my name though beacause of the abuse you guys hand out.
I'll give you a bit of proof, since people have to PROVE things here.
Ricardosmith, you used to drive a Silver honda and live in Castleknock. Think of all of the contaractors you know, especially the non-irish ones and there are a few and let whitewashman know that i am speaking fact.

RicardoSmith

Handbags at dawn I reckon. BanjoDanjo mail me will yah. I wanted to find out about your new "project"....if you are who I think you are. Never was any good at cluedo. No point PM'ing you 'cause you'll be banned.

Oh and thanks for bringing up the painful subject of my Honda...sniff...sob...will the pain ever go away.. Still my licence is much safer now :eek:


Personally I think your both right and wrong. (Hows that for fence sitting?)

Can you use too many smilies?

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by BanjoDanjo
Whitewashman,
Sounds to me like you have a problem with somebody keeping a secret from you.
Sorry about that.
You'll ban me,
Who has the power now
I don't think i've said anything that deserves banning for. do you?
By the way,
Some of you here know me personally. Not telling you my name though beacause of the abuse you guys hand out.
I'll give you a bit of proof, since people have to PROVE things here.
Ricardosmith, you used to drive a Silver honda and live in Castleknock. Think of all of the contaractors you know, especially the non-irish ones and there are a few and let whitewashman know that i am speaking fact.

i dont have a problem with secrets, i just hate knobs.

im not too bothered, because im not in the contracting game,and i dont live in ireland, so what you get up to is of no concern to me.

as i have said, i do get hot under the collar when people come on here and tell everyone how wonderful they are, and yet when pressed will not reveal any details, just keep spouting the same rubbish.

and as for people knowing who you are, well, so what?
does it matter? do you think if i knew who you really are id give a fúck? youre still doing the same thing, telling everyone that you can get great contracts and not actually telling anyone about it, and not giving any details.

by the way, your proof sucks. it tells me that you vaguely know someone here. i could tell you better things about most of the people that have posted to this thread, that doesnt mean i know all about contracting.

as for who has the power, well, as long as i dont have to read any shíte from you, i dont care what you do. as for being banned from the work forum, its hardly going to cause you life problems, but if you do have an issue with it, then feel free to chat to god or your local TD or an admin.
i warned you. yeah. im being harsh, but you know what, its friday, ive got a lot of work to do, and i have yet to win an award for being nice...

candowilldo

Let me guess whitewash.
you got bitten by a contractor when you were young and now you detest them. fine for you, but i thought this was a discussion forum. you had no grounds for banning that guy (if indeed you did ban him). all the same it wouls be interesting to read more about contracting. in my company i am the only full time developer. the rest are contractor. bastards get paid a fortune , but i guess they know their stuff and theyll move on when they are finished and leave whats left to poor old me.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by candowilldo
Let me guess whitewash.
you got bitten by a contractor when you were young and now you detest them. fine for you, but i thought this was a discussion forum. you had no grounds for banning that guy (if indeed you did ban him). all the same it wouls be interesting to read more about contracting. in my company i am the only full time developer. the rest are contractor. bastards get paid a fortune , but i guess they know their stuff and theyll move on when they are finished and leave whats left to poor old me.

ive never done contracting, nor do i wish to.
i have nothing against contractors.

have you actually read anything ive said.
i said i dont like people coming on here and not giving out details or help.
as for banning, yes i did, and its nothing to do with you.
you can talk about contracting all you want, ive never said there cant be discussion on contracting.

please, before you get on your soapbox, read what has been said already, and if you have any further queries, please ask.

candowilldo

Oh Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze pop a chill pill whitewashman.

To the other people reading this

I saw a VB .NET contract on one of the Job sites in Dublin for €250 per day. Is this a normal rate for contracting in Dublin.

RicardoSmith

Its about average I'd say. Though they'll probably be looking for 5yrs+ of .Net experience for it : )

candowilldo

Yeah i noticed that.
You might need a time machine for that tough.
Imagine your CV.
2002 .Net X 4
2003 .Net
equals 5 years.
No other way to do it that i can think of

candowilldo

By the way Ricardo,
do you know know any contractor besides yer man.
If so what experience have they?
I'm getting really pissed off watching those guys drive their sports cars and want some of the action.

madman

Cando - It has gone very quite in contracting. I used to contract but left it late last year as the rates are now half of what they were.

candowilldo

madman,
Are you by any chance a java contractor?
the only reason i ask is that i have a lot of friends who were java contractors and they tell me the contracts have dried up alright.
Some of them have been out of work since last april and may.
But all the .net guys are having no problems whatsoever.
Even the pure vb guys are getting contracts.
This is why i want to move into contracting.
Possibly even use it to travel, but thats probably not an option with the world climate the way it is.

madman

VB, Java, ASP - VB contracts are appearing but are paying around 9 Euro an hour less now than they were in July of last year

candowilldo

hi madman.
What kind of money are you seeing in the contracts?
€9 less an hour than a lot of € an hour is still a lot lol

madman

About min 170 EURO a day to 240 a Day

You have to also take into account that you do not get paid for holidays, sick days or bank holidays
No Health care, no pension
No security and you have to have a nice amount of cash in your account to go and try to get a mortgage or car loan.
You also have to pay an accountant.

So my point is that

52000

- 14 holidays 2800
- 5 Bank Holidays - 1000
- 2 sick days - 400
- health care - 450

= 4650


So then you are down to 47350

Then take away your accounts expenses, your training costs and the days that you may not work due to movement between contracts then you will then be on almost the same salary as a permanent.

candowilldo

But what about €1.08 expenses per mile.
VAT back on the major overhall that all of my computer equipment needs.
I can do the accounting myself.
I take your point about the holidays and sick days though.
But what about taking a month off between contracts and going on holiday then.
Altho you can't take a day off to wait around for the likes of eircom or chorus without losing money too

rander00

Can ye contractors tell me what it is exactly ye do be contracted to do?? What work do you be doing that someone would pay you E250 a day??

And what advice would ye experienced computer industery workers give to a student like me debating whether i shud go back to college to finish my degree?? Ive a cert in S/W development.

I`d like to work with networks or databases, is there much work out there for network technicians these days??

RicardoSmith

candowilldo - yes.

Only people gettting contracts I know of, are established contractors, going back to previous clients. Still getting ok money. These are guys with 5-10yrs of solid programming and mainly pure VB/SQL not really even asp that much. I know very few people with .net and again they are looking for people with mega experience who can do everything and are not just specialised in one area. Again you are talking about guys with 5-10yrs experience, and they are looking for people who can be business analyst/programmer/dba designer for high end projects.

There seems to be a few minor roles here and there but very few and they are advertised for so long that I suspect most of them aren't projects that are on the long finger, if they are actually real roles.

I know of no one who has recently got a permanent job, and a lot of people I know have left the country to go travelling or to work in the UK. Hence avoiding the issue.

rander00 - at the moment its hard to get work without having a computer science degree. From someone who doesn't have one (my degree is in something else) I'd say the wider computing knowledge you get from a good compter science degree wlll stand to you in any programming work/job you do. Also as for other IT roles a porfessional certification is becoming a requirement too. You'll find it hard to get a job without one. Unless you can demonstrate mega experience.

dazberry

From the Delphi corner of things 3 jobs and 2 contracts have hit the market within the week, all real - and I'm in for them all

I'd say its just a blip though.

D.

yop

Well if ye get any VB jobs going send me the auld pm.

cheers

candowilldo

Good news.
Had my first Contracting interview today.
6 month asp vb sql server .
Thought it went very well.
Although they told me they had a few more to interview.
Asked for E350 on the advice of contractors im currently working with.
Fingers crossed

RicardoSmith

Let us know the outcome won't you!