Is online gaming a sport? revisited

meglome

It seems to me that sport is about dedication, effort, skill and desire to win. This sounds like a lot of the gamers I know.

Dustaz

So is dog breeding, but it is not a sport.

The best reason i have heard so from from conversations is that in online gaming you dont have complete and analogue control over your envoiroment.
For example, in soccer you may run slowly and inject a little bit of speed to get past an opponent, but in cs you have only 2 options walk and run. This is one example, but any example would hit this wall I think.
Of course you could then say, well shooting is a sport and cs/quake/tribes/ut etc go well past the skills involved there, and you may be right. see? im just plain confused.

fisty

Can't we all just get along?


[This message has been edited by fisty (edited 16-07-2001).]

Dustaz

What makes one thing a game and something else a sport fisty? thats really what im asking.


The dictionary is no help:

sport
noun 1 game or competitive activity usually involving physical exertion. 2 these collectively. 3 (in plural) meeting for competition in athletics. 4 amusement, fun. 5 colloquial sportsman; good fellow. colloquial person with specified attitude to games, rules, etc. verb 1 amuse oneself; play about. 2 wear or exhibit, esp. ostentatiously. sports car low-built fast car. sports coat, jacket man's informal jacket. sports ground piece of land used for sport. sportswear 1 clothes for sports. 2 informal clothes.

·noun 1,2activity, athletics, exercise, game(s), pastime, physical education, physical training, recreation. 4amusement, badinage, banter, diversion, enjoyment, entertainment, fun, humour, jesting, joking, merriment, play, pleasure, raillery, teasing. verb 1caper, cavort, divert oneself, frisk about, frolic, gambol, colloquial lark about, play about, romp, skip about. 2display, exhibit, flaunt, show off, wear. sports ground arena, court, field, ground, pitch, playground, playing area, playing field, recreation ground, stadium.

Shinji

I think the problem is that the term "sport" implies something more than its dictionary definition would suggest. "Sport" suggests that we should be taking it seriously, I guess; it implies some degree of professionalism, and once you call something a "sport" people start bleeting about wanting government grants and initiatives and lottery money and christ knows what else.

We're all far better off with games just being games.

Hobbes

darts is a game and a sport.

Greenbean

Fisty, you're the fcking moron - you explained nothing. Snooker started off as a game at some point and now its a sport, as did darts, freestyle snowboarding, seeing who could run the fastest etc etc.

Dustaz

If darts is a sport, why not online gaming? ditto snooker.

Truth be told , i wouldnt consider darts a real sport, probably for the same reason i dont consider gaming a sport and thats what im looking for, that reason. Is it as simple as physical exertion?

GreenHell

Sport hmmm I don't online gaming is really a sport yet as it is still only used consistantly by a small number of people compared to the top sports at the moment.

I do think online gaming will be considered a sport as soon as it becomes more and more popular and online gaming and the way online gaming changes.

But if you mean sport as in the chance of making serious money for playing for a top clan. Well I hope that doesn't happen most of the fun in gaming is the fact that its just a game.

Is rock climbing a sport ?
Is fishing a sport ?
Is hunting a sport ?
Is F1 a sport ?

amp

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fisty:
why is it called "gaming" and not "sporting"?
simple.
gaming isn't a sport.
its - wait for it - GAME.
morons.</font>

Soccer is a sport also known as the beautiful game.
The Olympic Games have events considered to be sports.

Conclusion?
fisty=moron

In my opinion all sports are games, but not all games are sports. Sports are games that are popular and have spectators.

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fisty

yawn?

Hobbes

>Is rock climbing a sport ?

Yes.

>Is fishing a sport ?

Yes

>Is hunting a sport ?

Yes

>Is F1 a sport ?

I Would assume so.

Dustaz

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by amp:

In my opinion all sports are games, but not all games are sports. Sports are games that are popular and have spectators.
</font>

Tribes certainly meets these criteria, i dont know if CS and quake matches are shoutcasted and vidcasted, but im sure they are, so why then couldnt they be considered sports?

GreenHell

Of course another way of looking at this is who really give a damn, there only games after all.

tHE vAGGABOND

silly question on a board full of online gamers TBH..
Ask it on Ireland.com vote of the day I would be intrested in seeing the result!

Now ask 'Is online gaming a commercially viable 'sport'?

and the answer is no

The CS CPL Final, Q3f WorldCup will never be on skysports, like pool is now, or oldies beach football is now and again. U

nless your really into, and know whats going on it is ****e to watch. Pool tables and dart boards are all over the shop, loads of people (including me) cant watch enough football...

Were at the start of a big ass slowdown - give it 6 months and we'll see what the Clan 9 and SK lads (or whoever) are doing for a living - I bet 20 euros it wont be pro gamers

amp

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by fisty:
yawn?</font>

Yes fisty, it's way past your bedtime.

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"Boxes for show, Baskets for a pro" - [FCA]SyxPak

DeadBankClerk

i think gameing lacks benchmarks and rules.

leagues such as clan base and programs like punkbuster help this.

Sliotar

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The CS CPL Final, Q3f WorldCup will never be on skysports, like pool is now, or oldies beach football is now and again.</font>

well according to pc gamer, results to Starcraft leagues are shown on korean news programs.

all sports are sh|te to watch unless you know whats going on (with the exception of one or two). imagine you did'nt have a clue what football was about, you would'nt be able to stick 5 minutes of it.

i reckon its all down to popularity. in fairness, the majority of soccer matches are pretty bad, but because soccer is played and supported by so many people it still gets shown on tv the whole time.

once games like quake and cs get popular enough, you might begin to see matches on sky sports and you might be hearing about the qukae world cup on the news. it would take something like 20 years but it might happen, it could be the sport of the future...

personally, i think games are better off as just games. keep it all about the fun. soccer has got to the stage where people actullay get killed over it, fvckin rediculous...

Dont be at yourself

Gaming has yet to be accepted as a past time in many circles, yet alone a sport.

In the distant future I can see gaming being a professional sport, but I'd say it will be vastly different than what's being played today.

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ThunderingMike

Gaming is a sport in the same sense that Chess is a sport.

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ThunderingMike Thus conscience does make cowards of us all, And thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought, And enterprises of great pitch and moment, With this regard their current turns away, And lose the name of action... Nows that's a sig.

Dustaz

I know there was already a topic on this before, but it never answered the basic problem i have with the question which is this:

I dont consider online game to be a sport (or think it ever will be). After discussing it on a few occasions however, I still have not come up with, or heard a convincing argument WHY it is not a sport. Everytime i come up with a reason that it is not, it is easily negated by a 'real' sport example (such as snooker say). Yet, i still feel that it does not qualify as a sport. Why is this?

please discuss, especially if you have a 1 sentence argument that nails it down


[This message has been edited by Dustaz (edited 16-07-2001).]

Dustaz

Thank you Bard, thats exactly the question im asking

and FanJ, I play "real" sports (not rugby mind, thats for "idiot rugger buggers with more money than sense" - note the 2 cliches) and i dont consider gaming a sport.
But where does balance come into snooker for example? or motor racing?
I still havent seen a concise reason that proves gaming is NOT a sport.

The Sweeper

I reckon it's commerce. Seriously. What seems to differentiate a 'sport' from a 'game' is the level of competition, or perceived competition that surrounds it.

By this I mean that a whole pile more people get terribly excited about the World Cup Final than the World Chess Final.

If you can extend the excitement about your competition beyond the competitors and out into an audience it seems to jump from being a 'game' into being a 'sport'.

Any takers on that wobbly theory?

Dustaz

i cant see the world water polo finals being a massive commercial draw. kinda sinks that theory

The Sweeper

Ah now, the crowd for the women's beach volleyball final doesn't count either

Sliotar

this really is doing my head in... its kinda like the whole time travel thing or somethin...

i guess the best i can come up with is that it is both a game and a sport.

when you go down to the park to kick a ball around with your m8's your playing a game. but when you join the local club and you start training, using tactics and play competitve matches in front of spectators then your playing a sport.

but its all soccer. so soccer is a game and a sport.

and that probably applies for all games/sports.

you go down to the pub and you play some darts with m8's, your playing a game. you enter a darts tournament and you dedicate yourself to darts and play in front of spectators, your playing a sport.

likewise with gaming, you join a public server and have a quick game of CS, your playing a game. you join a serious clan, you dedicate yourself to the game, you train, and you go to the CPL and play in front of spectators, your playing a sport. just that society has'nt excepted this as a sport yet and probably will have trouble doing so.

make sence?

Dustaz

So were all agreed that gaming isnt a sport.
Back to the original question then. WHY isnt it a sport. No physical excercise? snooker.
No big audience? Synchronised swimming (outside the olympics) No huge finances? most sports world wide.
Hmm, come to think of it maybe this thread belongs on the 'Useless philosophical questions that keep no-one but me amused' board

the fnj

Online gaming is not a sport!

Only an online gamer would even consider it a sport!
And not even every online gamer feels this way. When taking part in a sport you should be able to decide for yourself straight away. I know when I play rugby that I’m playing a sport. When I play quake three online I am playing a game. I take it seriously when I play and I try to win (even though I never do ). I still could never even consider it a sport.
Every online game should know straight away if they are taking part in a sport or not when they play. They should not need to debate it over with others.

As far as I’m concerned this is a case of gamers trying to force their own little niche in the sporting world.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> I’m too lazy to go out and play a real sport so I’ll sit in my room play games and call that sport </font>

I find it an insult as a rugby player and a sportsman that you would even try and compare something as trivial as gaming to a “real” sport like rugby. When I take part in a rugby match I have to push myself to physical limits. I have to be willing to put my body on the line for the team. I have to keep going even though my lungs want to cave in and my legs are turning to jelly. Sometimes you have to dig really deep and push yourself on. When does any gamer have to show that level of commitment during an online game?

I’m not saying in every sport you have to be pumping sweat but a lot of basic attributes pass over in all of them. When does balance ever become an issue for an online gamer?

I have considered this a lot since the last thread on this subject and I have grown more hostile towards people who consider themselves cyber athletes. This is mainly due to the amount of work I do for rugby. I would find it ten times easier to sit in front a computer screen all day and play quake. I would also find infinitely less satisfying.

The Sweeper

"When I take part in a rugby match I have to push myself to physical limits. I have to be willing to put my body on the line for the team."

Where does this leave the disabled then?

Sport is about effort, participation, dedication, commitment, teamwork, and above competition. It is not defined by WHAT you decided to make an effort with, or participate with, or dedicate, or commit. It is about the intensity with which you do these things. Your definition of sport shouldn't be constrained by physical ability, or lack of it.

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Bard

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The FANJ:
Online gaming is not a sport!

Only an online gamer would even consider it a sport!
</font>

Flawed logic. Only a serious chess player would even consider chess a sport. Same for darts. A game isn't a sport because the player of the game 'considers' that they're playing a sport.

Would someone care to define the distinction between a game which is not a sport and one which is? What makes a game a 'sport'?

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Bard

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Chubby

Sliotar sums up the differences between a game and a sport quite well.

Events like the CPL is an event like the olympics. Gaming categories like FPS or RTS are the equivalent of categories like track and fields etc. The different games are individual sporting events. The problem is, the individual games/events change too often so there're no set rules or standards which makes it hard for outsiders to follow.

The actual game used will change when better hardware becomes available and programmers write better and more realistic physics engines to make use of the hardware or even develope different kinds of games. This constant change makes it hard I think for people to accept gaming as sports. Also, the sort lifespan of a game means the career of pro gamers are short and they'd have to constantly move to other games and adjust to new physics engines and weapons. And when games like FPS and RTS are no longer popular, then they're really in trouble.



[This message has been edited by Chubby (edited 18-07-2001).]

cueball

Hmmmmmmmmm thinking about it, they are both. But .... makes you wonder, i suppose its a game cause we play it to have a laugh and take some fun out of it, as does a kick about on the park, but say you play CS in the world finals where the new speccy mode is, on a full screen with people cheering you on and watching then it could be classed as a sport.
Games are better off left as games, doesnt playing them competitivly take the fun out? Playing to win all the time........ but isnt that was sports are about?

the fnj

Is someone playing a sports simulator a sportsman?

Example: Am I a footballer because I play Fifa?

Games are trying to recreate an environment on a virtual platform.

How is someone pretending virtually to be a counter terrorist an athlete?


In every sport the competitor is directly taking part, he is in contact with the playing environment, he is physically using the objects required to win.

In a computer game you are only in contact with the mouse and keyboard. The playing environment is virtual. You click you mouse to fire a shot you have not really fired anything.

Xterminator

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The FANJ:

In every sport the competitor is directly taking part, he is in contact with the playing environment, he is physically using the objects required to win.

In a computer game you are only in contact with the mouse and keyboard. The playing environment is virtual. You click you mouse to fire a shot you have not really fired anything.</font>

Fanj, youre logic does not hold up.

Most people would consider shooting to be a sport. It's an olympic event.
You pull the trigger and point the gun , but by your logic, you dont actually do anything, except exercise your finger and brain (same as a computer game). The gun actually does the shooting.

The sport is the taking part and the competing. Therefore it's a sport.

Sliotar

i think i'd rather games to stay as just that; games.

but it would be kinda cool to see a quake deathmatch on sky sports. it could be pretty entertaining too, with some clever camera work. it could take off in the same way as the WWF or something. it would all be kinda fake in a way, but it could be presented really well. they would have real ppl playing, but it would be in a virtual enviroment, where they can do pretty much anything. for instance, they might never show the actual person playing the game, but instead he would have his own custom skin/model and would be known only by his nick. it would'nt be long before you see this guy on t-shirts in his virtual form the player not think much of this, but it could work. it could be the next big thing if its done right

but they really gotta stop callin themselves cyber-athletes, it sounds really bad .

amp

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by The FANJ:
Games are trying to recreate an environment on a virtual platform.
</font>

So what happens when you can't tell the difference between a virtual platform and a real one? At some stage technology will allow that. Besides how you view or interact with the game or sport is irrelevant. Your eyes and ears still take in information, your brain still processes it and directs your limbs accordingly.

You also seem to stress the physical nature of sport as making it different from electronic games. As has been pointed out before, physical exertion is not always required in a sport for it to be defined as such.

Hmmm... this is the most serious discussion here since mmmm.. the last time we discussed this.

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BlitzKrieg

I wouldnt be a expert and i know there is a flaw in here BUT.

-When you take a offical sport i.e soccer, you can go over the world and look at every country playing soccer. Now wha u notice of all the games u have witnessed THERE IS THE SAME BASIC LEVEL/rules/conditions etc. Sure there are little changes in some countries but in the end all sports which are different from each other are put into catagories (field sports track sports etc) and then sub divided more to soccer hurling 100 metres etc. But each one is considered a sport on their own.


That is the flaw to your whole topic

your question is "Is gaming a sport" That would be asking "Is having a ball and a field a sport" you cant answer because take 10 different people and you wuld prob get 10 different games and rules, though 1 will be the most popular their are too many results to the task to even find a equal level.

Now there is your problem, there are too many different games which have nothing in common.

If u asked "Is Online Fps shooters a sport" u have narrowed it down to a level where the question can be tackled yet again therer are no set rules no set tools or anything. You can never get it set down tha 1 game can be played by all the gamers and be placed as the game to represent the whole community (even though cs is damn close to doing this)


We have a whole community existing after 1 set of rules and design which is the beutifull game it is the beutifull game because it has been tweaked to a level everyone can play it easily yet there is life in it to bring joy for years and it is the same all over. Games on the other hand u have it ripped up so much that people will continuosly jump from one to the other and never settle on 1 definition on rules and objectives Because every game is different. If we did settle on 1 set then we will lose wha made games so great the freshness of each one and their new ideas. So games will never be a sport for they are EVER CHANGING


-If u had asked "Is Counterstrike a sport" i would reply like slioter Yes if u are dedicated no if uer casual.


But just asking games the answer is defitnally NO!


CS is like football, we have rules we have a way of playing we have the same level all over the world.

and like football u have kids and friends saying "wanna game"
and u have captains and managers saying "We will win this match"

keywords: Game and Match.


end result to make gaming (even just online) a sport would destroy the gaming world and we would get very p1ssed off at u and beat u senseless.

-God i sound like Washu

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