Space Shuttle Columbia destroyed on re-entry

DMT

From http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0201/nasa.html

Seven astronauts are feared dead after the space shuttle Columbia is feared to have disintegrated in the Earth's atmosphere, minutes before it was due to land at Florida's Kennedy Space Center this afternoon.

The US space agency NASA lost contact with the shuttle at around 2pm.

NASA reported that debris from the shuttle has been sighted in Texas.

Television images showed several white trails in the sky, thought to be debris from the shuttle. Officials have warned that the debris might be toxic.

US space agency, NASA, has declared an emergency after losing contact with the Space Shuttle Columbia.

The Columbia was transporting the first Israeli astronaut and six other crew members back to Earth after a 16-day mission.

Search and rescue teams have been put on alert.

Columbia is NASA's oldest shuttle and first flew in 1981.

Today's emergency is the most serious incident involving a shuttle since the 1986 crash of the space shuttle Challenger, which carried seven astronauts.

Drunk pirate

Scary. How could it be toxic?

oeNeo

Heard on the news that it's toxic because of the fuel and all the debris and stuff they were collecting in orbit

DMT

Originally posted by Drunk pirate
Scary. How could it be toxic?

They're probably just saying that to stop people from tampering with the evidence.
Or selling it on eBay.

Shinji

I'm not sure "tampering with the evidence" is the right phrase, but yes, they don't want people nicking bits of the shuttle and selling them on eBay basically.

Of course, this will now be followed by hand-wringing in the States and a major backscaling of shuttle operations, and probably of all of NASA's operations. The Americans, stupidly, approach space exploration as having to be perfectly safe; they cannot accept that there will INEVITABLY be casualties in any field as dangerous as this one.

All astronauts understand the risks of their profession. And it doesn't matter how dangerous it is - there would still be queues of young men and women willing to explore this dangerous frontier, just as in the past there were people willing to sail to distant lands or explore the polar ice caps. Of course, CNN and hence the Yank public will never understand this...

Sangre

Completely agree with you Shinji,
Because its space travel everyone (media) will immediately assume that space travel should be halted because its so dangerous. But noone even blinks if a plane crashs. Fs I was only 1 when Challenger exploded but still 'everyone' will want halt this perilous career.
There will always be men and women willing to risk their lives to further our understanding of our universe

DMT

Originally posted by Sangre
Completely agree with you Shinji,
Because its space travel everyone (media) will immediately assume that space travel should be halted because its so dangerous.

The problem is that there's only one type of space shuttle - when that Concorde crashed on take-off they were all taken out of service, so they have to put them out of service until they can find the problem and prevent it from happening again.

aidan_dunne

As it stands at the moment though, space travel can't actually be stopped. Why? Well, after Challenger in 1986 the shuttle fleet was grounded for two years. They can't ground the remaining shuttle fleet now because there is a crew currently aboard the International Space Station who will need supplies sent up to them. Also, the building of the ISS still has to keep going ahead so, unlike in '86 when the fleet was grounded, they can't do that now. As it stands, whether the shuttle fleet is safe or unsafe, they are going to have to continue to risk using it because of the whole ISS situation and the fact they have no alternative to the shuttle at the moment.

irishgeo

The russians can service the ISS.

So is any of the spy or weather satalites any good in trying to figure out what happened. Dont they find any big pieces.

So any ideas what happened?

I think it could be the heat tiles.

aidan_dunne

Here's an image from a NOAA satellite showing the infra-red "streak" of heat from the pieces breaking off (in red). What's particularly worrying from this image is the potential size of the debris field. Given such a large amount of debris spread out over such a large area, there is bound to be some damage from all that debris hitting things so let's hope nobody on the ground is killed.

irishgeo

where you get that and whats the green blob

mike65

This is being discussed over here too-
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=734909#post734909

Maybe a thread merger would be appropriate?

Mike.

aidan_dunne

I got it off Yahoo! news' picture section. I think the green blob (though I can't be sure) represents heat from a large population area, probably Fort Worth.

DMT

Originally posted by DMT
The problem is that there's only one type of space shuttle

Actually that's wrong - I completely forgot about the Russian Buran space shuttle.

aidan_dunne

True, but isn't the Buran rusting away somewhere in Russia at the moment? Last I heard it was, anyway (though I'm bound to be corrected on this).

Tellox

http://www.jgumby.com/columbia-ebay/

aidan_dunne

Christ, it's started already. :eek:

I reckon it's bound to be a fake but, if it is real, so much for all the warnings about not to go near the debris for fear of it being toxic. :rolleyes:

frood4t2

His ebay location is in Germany, not East Texas. Whoever wins that is an idiot.

Sangre

Its no longer for sale, the current bid was $99,000,100

The Gopher

I remember reading a feature about the Israeli guy going into space a few weeks back-he was bringing a painting painted by a kid who died in the holocaust.This may seem strange to you but I remember a thought rushed through my head"That painting might not return intact".
Weird that my mind was thinking more of a painting seeing as Im the worlds most useless artist but still.............

As for the cause some part of the craft fell off during lift off but at the time NASA claimed it would pose no major problems.
Id rule out terrorism-it was 250,000 ft up in the sky when it ran into problems.And the craft was most probably so well guarded while it was awaiting launch(particularly as there were terror fears seeing as there was an Israeli on board)so I would think it wasnt the cause.

As for the toxic materials the fuels used in a space shuttle can be highly toxic so the warning is legitimate.IIRC some craft even use radioactive fuel.

yellum

Time lapse of the radar image:

http://www.dondrake.com/archives/shuttleradar.html

And a Mirror of the Washington Post trying to be first with the news, what a **** up:

http://craphound.com/misc/A9943-2003Feb1.html

The last piece of the article is scary:

"The next time Columbia flies will be in November, when it carries into orbit educator-astronaut Barbara Morgan, who was the backup for Challenger crew member Christa McAuliffe in 1986. "


Oh man this comment is sad:

Do we really have to come back?" astronaut David Brown jokingly asked Mission Control before the ride home.

irishgeo

i think the damage to the tiles was far worse than they thought and perhapsa damaged the actual shell of the shuttle.
I quote from the end of the movie apollo 13

They are still shallowing flight. shall we tell them. Flight: Is there anything we can do about it . No Then they dont need to know.

could it be that is what happened.Could it be that NASA thought that it only minor and that they will make it back ok.

The consiparcy theories start here.

Barry Aldwell

Originally posted by Tizlox
http://www.jgumby.com/columbia-ebay/

That's part of a garden hose nozzle.

Michael Collins

Originally posted by Barry Aldwell
That's part of a garden hose nozzle.

LOL! It is 'n all! Who in their right mind would pay THAT much for something that's so obviously not geniune, I don't know...

Shinji

i think the damage to the tiles was far worse than they thought and perhapsa damaged the actual shell of the shuttle.

Believe me, you wouldn't need to damage the shell. If you lose part of the heat shield during re-entry, you're dead. You won't even know it hit you, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Atmospheric re-entry is a hugely dangrous process. We'll never know how many Russian cosmonauts died before they worked out the secret of successful re-entry, and Yuri Gagarin made it back home...

Barry Aldwell

Originally posted by Michael Collins
LOL! It is 'n all! Who in their right mind would pay THAT much for something that's so obviously not geniune, I don't know...

It's not on the ebay site, it's an edited page on someone's website.

Lennoxschips

We'll never know how many Russian cosmonauts died before they worked out the secret of successful re-entry, and Yuri Gagarin made it back home...

Quite a few Siberian Huskies died in the space race.

Dogs, the first animals in space. What haven't they done for us...

Calibos

Someone mentioned the Russian Buran Space Shuttle. AFAIK it only ever made a computer controlled orbital flight but was never crewed. The Soviet Union collapsed soon after and it was left to rust. I think it was bought by an American or German entreprenuer a couple of years ago who shipped it to their own country and turned it into a theme restautant!!
This is exactly what I said when discussing this with my family earlier.

i think the damage to the tiles was far worse than they thought and perhapsa damaged the actual shell of the shuttle.
I quote from the end of the movie apollo 13

---

They are still shallowing flight. shall we tell them. Flight: Is there anything we can do about it . No Then they dont need to know.

---

could it be that is what happened.Could it be that NASA thought that it only minor and that they will make it back ok.
The consiparcy theories start here.

My father started saying if this was the case then they would have docked with the ISS or they could send up another shuttle to pick them up. He wouldn't believe me when I tried to explain to him that unless Columbia was reasonably close to the orbit of the ISS in the first place then there probably wouldn't be enough manouvering propellent to boost them to the correct orbit in order to dock. As for a shuttle rescue mission, it would take at least 3 or 4 weeks to prepare the mission. The crew would have run out of oxygen by then. Even if the Russians had a Soyuz capsule ready to launch and capable of physically docking with the shuttle then there would still be the agonising decision of which 3 astronauts got to ride the capsule back to Earth and which 4 would remain to die of lack of air.

I think either Nasa really didn't think there was a major problem or they did but as Irishgeo said they knew there was nothing they could do so chose not to tell the crew in the hopes that everything would be alright. I'm sure we'll eventually find out which was the case. Maybe one of the astronauts families will reveal that they were encouraged to exchange farewell messages with their loved ones on the shuttle.??

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by yellum
And a Mirror of the Washington Post trying to be first with the news, what a **** up:

http://craphound.com/misc/A9943-2003Feb1.html

I'm surprised it's still up on the net. Surely somebody would have had the common sense to think, "Whoops! Better get that down of the web pretty quick!"

Trying to be first with the news is one thing but trying to predict it before it even happens? Jesus, what a cock-up! :rolleyes:

yellum

Thats the mirror of it Aidan.

The orig article was removed:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9943-2003Feb1.html

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

aidan_dunne

Yeah yellum, I know it's the mirror site but you think they would have copped on and thought, "Whoops, $hit, we better get that down pretty quick, guys!" It might not be the "live" site, so to speak, but the fact that it's still up on the web and people have still managed to come across it is a bit of a cock-up.

I was watching Sky News too, daveirl, and what I found a bit embarrasing was when one of the Fox News people mentioned something about how there is an ejector seat system on board the shuttle and said to, I think it was Buzz Aldrin or Jim Lovell or someone like that, "Well, there are ejector seats but they'd hardly work at those altitudes or those kinds of speeds, would they?!" :rolleyes: And the way Buzz or Jim or whoever replied, "Ummm, no!", you could hear the "What kind of a dumbass are you? Like someone would be able to survive ejecting into the upper atmosphere at nearly 20 times the speed of sound" in that one "no".

I have to say that I never thought much of Fox News beforehand but that was just the icing on the bloody cake for me.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

yellum

Originally posted by aidan_dunne
Yeah yellum, I know it's the mirror site but you think they would have copped on and thought, "Whoops, $hit, we better get that down pretty quick, guys!" It might not be the "live" site, so to speak, but the fact that it's still up on the web and people have still managed to come across it is a bit of a cock-up.

Cory Doctorow saw this article and decided to make a mirror of it to highlight media stupidity. He knew the paper themselves would remove it. It is not an official mirror and I doubt they'll get Cory to take the thing down, with him being Chief Evangelist (what a cool job title) for the EFF and everything. Course if the family asks him Cory might be nice enough to take it down.

yellum

http://www.craphound.com/images/shuttledebrissignbig.jpg

Road signs around Dallas

mada999

but the americans never got to the moon anyways, it was all a propaganda thing its was all in that magazine x-factor years ago !

Saruman

Originally posted by mada999
but the americans never got to the moon anyways, it was all a propaganda thing its was all in that magazine x-factor years ago !

What has this muppetry got to do with the Space shuttle???

Anyway you cant say they did not get to the moon, give a reason why they did not. Its like accusing someone of a murder that may not have taken place and saying He is guilty because someone else said he might be!

DapperGent

Originally posted by mada999
but the americans never got to the moon anyways, it was all a propaganda thing its was all in that magazine x-factor years ago !

Moron.

irishgeo

China will prove this either right or worng in 2005 or 2006 when they lauch a rocket which will photograph the moon and it will either photograph empty surface or a moon showing lots of spce junk left behind.

here is a link which proves my point

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2000506.stm

po0k

Originally posted by Drunk pirate
Scary. How could it be toxic?

Just put "hexylene" after a few concotions from the peridoic table.
Should sound scarey enough.
Rocket fuel is chemical. Look at the SR-71. The ground crew have to wear hazard suits cos the tanks don't seal till it's at ~30,000ft.

The Buran is a class alternative in my view (from what i've caught on Discovery and here and there ont he web).
Has 4x reusable booster rockets to get her into orbit, she has no engines herself, allowing for about 4x the cargo capacity of the current shuttle (figures?) and she glides home.

She's not rusting, and never was, just kept in storage mounted on the launch truck.

The shuttle fleet are nearly all suffering from metal fatigue by now I'd say.

Tis funny the way Bush will spend $$$s per day keeping the fleet at Iraq's doorstep yet skimps on badly needed funds to further scientific research.

Spose he got scared after the father's debacle with Star Wars.....

po0k

Originally posted by Shinji
Believe me, you wouldn't need to damage the shell. If you lose part of the heat shield during re-entry, you're dead. You won't even know it hit you, and there's nothing you can do about it.

Atmospheric re-entry is a hugely dangrous process. We'll never know how many Russian cosmonauts died before they worked out the secret of successful re-entry, and Yuri Gagarin made it back home...

You have to admire the Russian attitude to space travel.
The zero-g pen/lead pencil thing is a myth, but is a pretty accurate comparison.

Ever hear the one about the cosmonaut who's oxygen supply ran out? I think they did a post-humus court-martial because he abandoned his duty to "hold his breath".

mada999

just goto this site and read,


http://sphinxtemple.virtualave.net/conspiracies/conspiracies.html

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/2666/MoonHoax2.html



just read and make ur own mind. . . .

(PS how could a apollo 11 land on the moon with computers with less spec than a p100 pentium machine ???)

Beëlzebooze

(PS how could a apollo 11 land on the moon with computers with less spec than a p100 pentium machine ???)

the men who designed the V-1's and V-2's for the Reich never had anything as remotly powerfull as a electronic calculator, so according to you the bombings of London must have been a hoax.

just because your limited intelect cannot conceive what those men and women where doing in the sixties and seventies, does not make it a hoax. dumba$$!

ykt0di9url7bc3

Originally posted by mada999

PS how could a apollo 11 land on the moon with computers with less spec than a p100 pentium machine ???

all they needed were calcutators and information read outs inside a sealed can strapped to a big ass rocket

How I think the moon landings were not faked...


I think the space shuttle has 5 computers for fly-by-wire, 4 are identical and process all the info coming in and recommend a course alteration/warining or carry out the command..if 1 of the 4 disagrees then majortiy rules but if it is a tie then the 5 computer (completly different computer, different company) throws its opinion in to decide the majority....not too sure on this...

Scruff

[RANT]Talk about going off topic. Me thinks a moderator need to step in quick. bugger of and start a new moon landings thread for yerselves.[/RANT]

Heard on the radio today the the fact that they found so much human remains may mean that the crew were conscious as the shuttle started to disintegrate around them and they didn't die instantaneously as originally stated. what a horrible way to go conscious while being incinerated.

BigEejit

I was watching a bit of it on TV (Fox News, what a bigoted station, I've never seen anything like it) ... they reckon that a piece of insulation fell off the large central tank and hit the left wing during lift off .. when it was landing x days later they started to lose the temperature reading gear on the left hand side (under the tiles) and finally just before they lost contact with the shuttle, they noticed a pressure drop in the left wheel...

This is all happening at 200k+ feet and mach 18 .. not much anyone can do ... there was a problem before with one of the shuttles ... the cover over the parachute at the back of the shuttle fell off during take off ... IIRC they never even told the crew because there was nothing that could be done about it ... either the parachute worked and slowed them down on the runway or they went off the end of the runway ...

ykt0di9url7bc3

Originally posted by BigEejit
IIRC they never even told the crew because there was nothing that could be done about it ... either the parachute worked and slowed them down on the runway or they went off the end of the runway ...

Yeah but the shuttle carries a lot of spare tiles in case of accident with foriegn objects in spàs...the astro-lads would inspect any areas that were damaged and replace the tiles as nescesary

Victor

Originally posted by irishgeo
where you get that and whats the green blob

Probably rain or some other weather feature, as it is in a different location on other images.