change of mod on the PI board

WhiteWashMan

it appears that this board is in need of an over haul.

its turning into IRC more than a personal issues board. i do remember the mighty devore saying that this was a board he was watching and was serious about there being no messing on.
all i see on it is conversations and very little useful input.

i have also not seen smiles or sheron on line in ages.
if there are three moderators needed, then i suggest these two are replaced as they obviously do not have the time to commit.

Gordon

It did get a bit chatty. I thought it worthwhile to relax on the strictness (in fact you WWM gave me the thought) and I noticed a lot more levity which is good and bad obviously. Although it spawned a deal of off topicness it has given for some good fertilizer I think.

I don't see much of a problem to be honest but I'd be interested hearing feedback from PI users and indeed future PI users (is this a good forum for this?)

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Gordon
It did get a bit chatty. I thought it worthwhile to relax on the strictness (in fact you WWM gave me the thought) and I noticed a lot more levity which is good and bad obviously. Although it spawned a deal of off topicness it has given for some good fertilizer I think.

I don't see much of a problem to be honest but I'd be interested hearing feedback from PI users and indeed future PI users (is this a good forum for this?)

gordon,
you will notice that i did not mention anything about leeway on off topicness, or a more relaxed attitude to strictness.

i mentioned that it wasnt IRC, which has happened on a number of topics, and the fact that two of three moderators seem to have disappeared.

Gordon

Understood Eamon. Does anyone else have problems with PI?

Clintons Cat

there does seem to be a couple of posters who are turning PI and virtually any thread they appear on together back into another episode of the SYL and E*** Show,
i dont know about the rest of you but i find the Hilarious Banter between the two of them is Better than an Episode of Friends.

But me i am probally just bitty an twisted

Ps i have no intrest in co-modding PI

Victor

Originally posted by Gordon
Understood Eamon. Does anyone else have problems with PI?

Yeah, most of the posts are way too long and there isn't enough pervy stuff.

But honestly, I think too many people say "do this" or "do that" and everyone then agrees with the first responder, but in a laborious way. Some thread starters are also quite vague (that guy who lost something yesterday).

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

azezil

I too recall mention of iron fistedness in the predays of the forum, n now its all spammy, mods could use a shake up me thinks.



p.s. Gordon does a good job

Typedef

I don't have any problems with it as such, I think Gordon does a good job.

Perhaps his co's could put in more input, though, I wouldn't say there is any appreciable diminution of the content of the threads.

Which means Gordon does his bit. Sometimes people go randomly off topic, but, that is the nature of discussion.

Interestingly enough, the CTYI board had a 'lets change mod' spat a while back,here which I must admit, I stuck my oar into and asked why, a change of mod was needed to make (n) random users feel elite or to change the administration of said board?

Since none of the users felt the need to post a topic on admin like this one so the community at large could scrutinise it, I can only assume the regular posters on CTYI are happy.

In effect I interceded, because I had been to CTYI and felt some sort of wierd kinship with smilies, because both of us were much older former CTYIers then the majority of the board and were both one of the few, one of the hated, mods.

However since this has come up again, I'll have to change my tune, I think Eamo has a point and he seems like an independant source on this one. Basically smilies (even though she is a girl and I try to make a point of going out of my way to girls more leway then men) hasn't been around, I can't comment on SheroN, so I won't.

I think the CTYI board needs at least a co-mod. I'll admit I stood up for smilies before, but, since Eamo has pointed it out and it's not like she isn't aware people are saying "we need a new mod" on some of her boards, I think at least a co-mod is in order on CTYI and perhaps even total replacement of herself on PI.

However basically if someone won't contribute time and/or interest to a board (espeically a high traffice one) it is in the best interests of the posters to perform regicide.

adios.

leeroybrown

I don't see any major problems with it.

Unless the current Mods want to go I don't see any reason for them to do so.

But honestly, I think too many people say "do this" or "do that" and everyone then agrees with the first responder, but in a laborious way.

Unfortunately thats how the "I don't want to seem stupid" bulletin board mentality appears to work.

I've said my bit on that issue and I reckon that otherwise this thread is only an effort to fill Admin with crap ( ) so that'll be my final word.

DeVore

I would prefer if people didnt take serious topics as

1. an excuse for humour at the expense of the poster.
2. an excuse for injokery between boards regulars.
3. an opportunity to put the poster down, call them names and general act in a superior way.


Eamo, you yourself have made free with your sharp tongue on occasions where I felt it was hurtful to someone who was genuinely looking for help.

I do agree that people are going off topic quite quickly/frequently but by and large the forum is ok. I'll give it a serious look over when I get a chance.

DeV.

eth0_

Clintons cat - get a life would you? I've made about two bantery posts replying to merc, don't get your knickers in a twist over lil old me.

And as for the SYL and me show, look who was banned. Not me, nah ah.

BuffyBot

I have to say I do think the board has become a bit more "loose" in recent times, and tbh I don't think it's for the best.

It's become more of a chatzone for a few people than it used to be, and some of the topics could do with being pruned/brought back on track on a speedier basis.

I agree though that Gordon has done a good job on any thread I've seen, but as for the other two mods..I'd forgotten there was any! Perhaps a shake-up with more pro-active mods and a little less chatter would keep it in line. After all I think it is quite a useful board to have, and it would be a shame to let it slide slowly into becoming a place for chats/in-jokes/being nasty to posters without anyone noticing.

yellum

Originally posted by BuffyBot
and it would be a shame to let it slide slowly into becoming a place for chats/in-jokes/being nasty to posters without anyone noticing.

A lot of boards seem to becoming like this. Very spammy lately with some posters having chat sessions in the threads. Thats what irc is for ffs.

regi

it is in the best interests of the posters to perform regicide.

I'd really rather you didn't

Gordon

Thanks for the advice people

DMC

Just a point on all this.... and in regard to the earlier thread regarding the Admin board.

Isn't it just the case that folk, posters on boards, are getting chummy and chatty? I mean that people get know the humour, the style of posting, what type of reaction gets laffs etc. Lets face it, there are a lot of in-jokes and running gags around.

I feel, the more people get to know each other, the less there is to discuss.

My 2c. And Gordon, the lad done good.

Clintons Cat

I just found that rape thread banter inappropriate and more suited to IRC or an episode of blind date.

Appologies Etho for dragging your name into it.That SYL and E*** snipe was way out of Line.

girls raped by taxi driver

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by DeVore



Eamo, you yourself have made free with your sharp tongue on occasions where I felt it was hurtful to someone who was genuinely looking for help.

whether or not my style of advice giving is sharp or cuddly has no bearing on anything Tom.
I used the tone i feel is suitable at the time, however, i will always give some sort of helpful advice, and i will usually add in some sort of personal experience to base it on.

im ont talking about the quality of advice, im talking about lack of advice and the fact that people some people are treating like IRC, topics are going completely off topic and are not being split into new threads, or deleted where neccesary.
gordon has never been a nazi on PI, and i have never had a problem with him, because i feel he strikes the right balance between letting a thread develope and deleting the nonsense.
sheron and smiles were definately of the nazi brigade, and its easy to see they have not been there for the past few months due to real life commitments or whatever. however, it is a high traffic board, and it does need close moderating.

how people anser, especially me, are not the topic of conversation. if you want to make it a topic, please form a new thread, and stop bringing this thread off-topic....

Originally posted by DeVore
I would prefer if people didnt take serious topics as

1. an excuse for humour at the expense of the poster.
2. an excuse for injokery between boards regulars.
3. an opportunity to put the poster down, call them names and general act in a superior way.

3 good reasons why we should have some other moderators on the PI boards?
hell there are about 101 other forums here for that malarky, which i make regular use of for just these childish behaviours, but you asked me not to troll the PI boards, and i dont.

Originally posted by DeVore
I do agree that people are going off topic quite quickly/frequently but by and large the forum is ok. I'll give it a serious look over when I get a chance.

DeV.

again, no problem with threads and topics developing, but sometimes it gets silly. and i mean monty python silly.
the charter used to say about it being a serious board and no nonsense would be tolerated.
would it be easier to change the charter?

Typedef

Originally posted by Regi
I'd really rather you didn't

must.... not.... kill...

Beruthiel

I think Gordie does a really good job in PI, he never lets it get too out of hand and if it does he's there pretty quick to clean it up - there is no doubt that some threads are set up to take the piss, which is ok now and again imo as it can be amusing, but again, he sorts it.

in short...

Gordie does a good job

DeVore

All mods should be in contact with their co-mods from time to time (some more often then others, for example I know the Politics mods work closely together...)

Gordo, could you PM the other two and see if they are ok?

DeV.

The Corinthian

My only criticism of PI is that topics more suited to After Hours (such as anything with the strap line of “one for the guys/girls”) don’t get moved/nuked.

That is all. Carry on.

Gordon

Originally posted by DeVore
All mods should be in contact with their co-mods from time to time (some more often then others, for example I know the Politics mods work closely together...)

Gordo, could you PM the other two and see if they are ok?

DeV.

will do

Caesar_Bojangle

Gordon does a great job as mod, personally i dont see a need for a shakeup on the board. Perhaps a little more interaction from the other two mods would provide gordon with some relief from the likes of me.

SheroN

I'm still floating about eamo. In my final year in college so i haven't got much time for posting. It'd be a whole lot easier to moderate if long term posters weren't trolling.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by SheroN
I'm still floating about eamo. In my final year in college so i haven't got much time for posting. It'd be a whole lot easier to moderate if long term posters weren't trolling.

as ive said, you dont have the time for it, hence youre not on it.
and yes, youre right, it would im sure be easier to post if long term posters werent trolling it, but im sure you read the rest of this thread didnt you, and read what ive said about that.

now, y9ou have just admitted you dont have the time.
smiles cant be arsed to be here either.
i just think if youre going to have a serious discussion forum, then you need some mods who are going to be on every day.

sorry sheron, floating about just doesnt cut it.



and i have said nothing about gordon not being a good mod.
do you people actually read what is said, or do you just get an idea in your head and then write down the first thing that comes to mind?

DeVore

ok everyone drop you're chill pills...

I'll also try to talk to Smilies and see what the story is....

We can always add another Mod , we can have 4 per board.

DeV.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

BuffyBot

You know, as each day goes by, I understand more and more why DeV posted what he did..

smiles

I haven't been around that much lately, only every 2 or 3 days, i take a quick read and try to ditch anything dodgy I can in PI, family problems at home, work and college commitments and I havent been in the best of health lately, so if there's a problem then I'm sorry and if the admins want to replace me (in either PI or CTYI, although I havent been aware of a problem since we resolved the one a couple of months ago) then I've no problem with that.

PI is becoming a bitchy little board, with too many people going out of their way to have a laugh, and being well-known they tend to be able to get people to laugh. I've had a word with some of them only to have angry responses. It's very hard to slap down some of the comments, they're borderline and that makes modding them rather difficult.

I'm happy to try and be online more, which is possible now because things seem to be sorting themselves out in my life, and I appologise for not being more active.

<< Fio >>

smiles

As for wanting mod that offer advice, as WWM so eloquently put it to me a while back, being a mod doesnt mean you have to reply to absolutely every post, or any at all, just because you deal with the spam doesn't mean you have to give advice all the time.

Gordon does a brilliant job, he's a good guy who gives some damn good advice, I tend only to reply when I know something or when I'm sure I can do something constructive, and personally I dont think either form of modding is better than another, but others might have different views.

<< Fio >>

BuffyBot

Maybe it's just me..

Would it not make sense, for any mod, on any board who knows they aren't going to be around for any period of time to PM DeV and let him know.

DeV could then "attach" some kind of temporary mod to the board to look after it during that period. If the existing mod then feels in a position to come back, well and good.

If not, then there is a) a replacement ready made or b) someone to hold the fort until DeV finds a new, appropriate mod (for example someone with an interest in a specific sport for that specific board). The previous mod can be removced

DeVore

Smilies, no worries... if anyone is acting the asshose and you arent sure about it, gimme a shout.

Anyone who is abusive in a warning PM reply, banned for a week.
More about ban them permanently and let me know.

You guys have a tough board to mod. If any of the regular repliers are regularly being asshoses... kick them.

DeV.

Boston

Well how long exactly should a mod spend watching a board. I personally think that if a board requires a level of moderation that three moderators or high caliber cannot provide, then it should be removed.

A Forum should not be a play school, poping in an out one every few days should be more then enough. More then that could casue fasism. Of course certain forums like politics do require high levels of moderation, but for different reasons.

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Boston
Well how long exactly should a mod spend watching a board. I personally think that if a board requires a level of moderation that three moderators or high caliber cannot provide, then it should be removed.

A Forum should not be a play school, poping in an out one every few days should be more then enough. More then that could casue fasism. Of course certain forums like politics do require high levels of moderation, but for different reasons.

I don't think anyone is saying that it is a case that the three mods cannot provide the level of service needed on something like PI, it's more that they have not for whatever reasons.

It is all about balance. Everyone has a different idea of what that balance should be. The level of moderation should not descend into play-school style supervison, nor should it be fascist. However, it should be regular and strict enough not to allow threads to fall into chit-chat, flirting, muppetry, slanging matches or whatever. PI isn't a place for this, there are other boards which are.

Moderation needs to be exercised occasionally not to correct people, but to steer the discussion in the right direction.

WhiteWashMan

and yet people continue to not listen to a word said.
i didnt say the level of modding by gordon is bad, i said there is no input from the other two mods.

now sheron and smiles can make all the bítchy snide comments they like, but lets face it, if you arent around, then dont get cranky if someone notices the boards you look after go to hell.

sheron, as ive said, i havent trolled the PI board since Devore asked me not to, and thats a long time ago. probably 8 or 9 months.

Smiles, if you have home problems, then maybe you should take care of them, because moderating a bullitan board is not importantm youre life is.
as for angry responses, i will assume you are talking about me, and if you will recall, it was about the style of my posts, not about spam or trolling.
but im not interested in petty arguments over who advice should be delivered, i will leave that up to me and me alone.
what im concerned about is that 2 out of three mods are not online every day.

and no matter who is responsable for a forum that is suppose to be serious, then there should be a presence there.

oh, and i dont think you need mods who can give out advice on a forum. a level head and some common sense is all thats needed.
that rules madj out tbh....

tHE vAGGABOND

"I personally think that if a board requires a level of moderation that three moderators or high caliber cannot provide, then it should be removed"

Im not part of "the gang" but I have been about here a long time and I agree 100% with boston...

If "the gang" are taking the piss then start banning them (and their aliases!) if banning them dont work, then just remove the board full stop.

I tend to avoid PI as its a farce of people asking serious questions and having the piss taken out of them by some people and people asking piss take questions getting serious answers..

smiles

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
i said there is no input from the other two mods.

now sheron and smiles can make all the bítchy snide comments they like, but lets face it, if you arent around, then dont get cranky if someone notices the boards you look after go to hell.

[...]

Smiles, if you have home problems, then maybe you should take care of them, because moderating a bullitan board is not importantm youre life is.
as for angry responses, i will assume you are talking about me, and if you will recall, it was about the style of my posts, not about spam or trolling.
but im not interested in petty arguments over who advice should be delivered, i will leave that up to me and me alone.
what im concerned about is that 2 out of three mods are not online every day.

and no matter who is responsable for a forum that is suppose to be serious, then there should be a presence there.

As I've said WWM, if you read my posts, that I'm happy to step down, if people want me to, so far it seems to be only you who've made specific requests to kick me and Sheron out.

I wasn't making "bítchy" and snide comments, it really seems like you're the only one doing that by going on about how I "can't be arsed", and how I don't take care of the important things in life. Why would I bother?

I don't honestly think the board has gone to hell, maybe it's had a few ups and downs more than it should, and yes, thats partially my fault, but i thought that since Gordon was online most of the time then he seemed to be able to nip most of it in the bud with just a little trimming for me to do whenever I saw that it needed it.

As for taking care of the important things, I am, thats the point. I don't think that moderating a bulletin board will *ever* be more important, and I dont think that it comprimises the rest of my life, hence why I wasn't here.

But things have cleared up, got work commitments/projects sorted and I've more time to do things online, i suggest giving it a week or two and if people still think the board has "gone to hell" then to start the whip-assing.

<< Fio >>

amp

I moderate Humanities. So does Micro and Zenith. I tend to be more visible in my moderation than my co-mods. But then, Humanities isn't as popular as PI.

I moderate Games, so does Shinji and Meglome. Me and Meglome aren't as visible as Shinji is. Games is pretty popular but probably not as much as PI.

My point? Most multiple moderated boards have mods that are quieter than others.

Thing is, Wwman knows this as well as anyone else here. So this is either a troll or a personal attack.

tHE vAGGABOND

amp: does that not ask another question, that if person x and person y are mods on a busy forum; if one is never about should he be a mod forever on devine right?

If its not a busy forum then it does not really matter...

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by amp
I moderate Humanities. So does Micro and Zenith. I tend to be more visible in my moderation than my co-mods. But then, Humanities isn't as popular as PI.

I moderate Games, so does Shinji and Meglome. Me and Meglome aren't as visible as Shinji is. Games is pretty popular but probably not as much as PI.

My point? Most multiple moderated boards have mods that are quieter than others.

Thing is, Wwman knows this as well as anyone else here. So this is either a troll or a personal attack.

whats the point in having a mod that does nothing then?

amp, if you have something you want to spit out then i think you should write me a mail about it.

this is nether a personal attack or a troll.
its a simple question.
if mods arent going to be active on a board that is suppose to be serious, then they should be replaced.

Gordon

I think he's talking about visibility as in the quiet cop/loud cop approach. For example even though SheroN doesn't actually post much in PI - he does clear posts up and communicate with posters in other ways.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Gordon
I think he's talking about visibility as in the quiet cop/loud cop approach. For example even though SheroN doesn't actually post much in PI - he does clear posts up and communicate with posters in other ways.

im not talking about quiet, background work.

both sheron and smiles have posted saying they havent been around due to actually having a life.

hell, there could be a hundred boards with this problem, this is just the only board that has a strict charter that ive noticed the problem.

SheroN

actually I said I'm not around as much, i still probably check boards a couple of times a day, anything I see that needs moderating I moderate. Gordon seems to be on a lot more than me and he seems to nip most things in the bud.

ykt0di9url7bc3

To be Honest, if Gordon needed extra help I'm sure he would have asked for it (You do great work in PI....)

Where smiles and Sheron are still floating around and Gordon putting in great work, the board is imho opinion doing well and squeaky clean...The board does attract a lot of muppetry and thats not the fault of the mods. Contrary to your belief WWman smilies and Sheron have put in a lot of effort into the modding of the board and maybe havent been as vocal in recent weeks doesn't detract imo from them doing a good job


maybe for some of the popular boards in the hopefully busy future we could have forum helpers, some sort of half mod (only allowed to delete/move posts with good reason) to clean up when the mods are enjoying the outside world, picked and Administered by the forum Mod - approved by Devore/Cloud....

Dustaz

I find myself agreeing with boston tbh. I gave up reading PI ages ago because its too much work on the trolling circuits

amp

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
whats the point in having a mod that does nothing then?

Backup? A second opinion?

amp, if you have something you want to spit out then i think you should write me a mail about it.

Why? I merely stated my take on this. The personality conflict between you and the mods on PI is no secret. It's been an ongoing thing for quite sometime now. That you try to dress it up in different clothes is a bit silly imo.

The biggest problem on PI is not the moderators, it's the flamers and the trollers who use it to try and make themselves feel superior by attacking weak and vunerable targets. And that's just pathetic.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by amp

The biggest problem on PI is not the moderators, it's the flamers and the trollers who use it to try and make themselves feel superior by attacking weak and vunerable targets. And that's just pathetic. [/B]

then why arent they banned?

Originally posted by amp

Why? I merely stated my take on this. The personality conflict between you and the mods on PI is no secret. It's been an ongoing thing for quite sometime now. That you try to dress it up in different clothes is a bit silly imo.[/B]

you seem to have some secret knowledge of things that are going on?
please do share it.

Originally posted by amp


Backup? A second opinion?
[/B]

why?
isnt that what the mod board is for?

DeVore

Mods become active and go dormant for a variety of reasons. Most tell me/us if they are going to be gone for long/ever.

I've spoken to all three PI mods and I'm happy with the resolutions we've come to (we're thinking about a fourth mod, but no action yet).

I've asked them to ban people with impunity. If they wont, I will.

I've shut down, pre-moderated and replaced mods before (primarily with Counterstrike) so I've no problem doing it.
I dont think its justified in this instance though.


Amp and WWman dont start having a fight here thanks.
You both have put your view forward and I've read both and taken them under consideration.


Unless anyone has anything POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE to add, I'm going to close this thread. The "issue" has been highlighted... addressed and we'll see if it is resolved.

DeV.

amp

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
then why arent they banned?

Ah so, the amount of muppets attracted to PI is the moderators fault. Nothing to do with the subject matter at all?

But to answer your question, Logic was banned. Merc has been banned, I even think you were banned for a couple of days or you were close to being banned. I'd say PI has the highest banning rate outside of CS.

Try again

you seem to have some secret knowledge of things that are going on?
please do share it.

Like I said, it's no secret. All you have to do is read PI. And the recycle bin.

why?
isnt that what the mod board is for?

Mod is more a third opinion and for people who mod a board on their own. The point is, most moderators have different styles. Some post up a note with everything they do (eg. "This post moved to recycle bin cause it's off-topic"). And some do it without using little notes.

For example: on Boards Events, you quite rightly moved a post about a free gig to Gigs/Events but didn't put a note on it. Yet because I ok'd it previously, it looks like I moved it. Therefore I look more vocal than you.

But that's irrelevant. Because that's not the issue here. The issue is why you want a "change of mod" when the general feeling on this thread is that even without Smiles and Sheron that Gordon is doing a sterling job.

So where's the problem?

Dev: This may seem like a fight but I think it's right to question the reasons for this threads existence.