Easy Listening Wallpaper Indie/Phantom Sell Out

ferdi

hey,
i've not been in here in a good few months so dont b!tch at me if there have already been lots of posts on this.

dont get me wrong, i've been listening to phantom for years and i love it to bits but lately i find myself increasingly disillusioned with the "music that matters"(worst slogan ever).

i'd say a half of the music on phantom these days is verging on sh!te. there's so much wishy washy indie pop elevator musak crap on my beloved phantom. i also find myself listening to pop/rock drum n' bass type stuff which is just awful!! i think you guys find you need to play this stuff, just devote one show a day or something to it. i cant name the bands which i object to i'm afread but i feel sure i'm not the only one who feels like this, those who agree with me will know the music to which i refer. i' usually very opened minded when it comes to music, i'm not an exprert but iknow what i like. i have no doubt some people must love it and there for phantom should play it i guess -

i dont care what is played, be it rock, rawk, punk,ska ,rock,metal,pop punk, pop rock, indie, hip hop, deathsatanhatekillmurder metal,funk,rap orwhatever- JUST LET IT HAVE SOME KICK AND SOME SOUL.

please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please DONT SELL OUT TO EASY LISTENING WALLPAPER INDIE!!

you guys are the best,
peace,one love,keep rockin'

ferdi.

anony

You hit the nail on the head there ferdi. i agree.
I mostly listen to phantom during the day in work.... well until someone changes the station that is.

When I first discovered Phantom it was like an oasis in the barren wasteland that is daytime radio. You could actually some hear cool stuff on the radio during the day. Wow! and even the not so good stuff was prefrerable to listening to the chatter of some inane DJ on marketing fm.

But now phantom is fast becoming as safe and predictable as all the other commercial stations, mainly due to how homoganised the playlist is, endless crap american plastic punk bands and dull indie by numbers stuff. Its a real shame, I sure there's loads of people out there who love this kind of thing.... but I personally think Phantom needs to broaden it's music horizons.

Kopf

I've been listening to phantom for about 4 years now and I agree totally. The majority of music on phantom these days is ****e and whenever i'm in the car on the way home i find myself wishing i'd taken the time out to write down frequencies for xfm or jazz fm or some other alternative radio stations which i hear are good.

lyric fm beats the **** through phantom these days, even with all the vocal music they play which doesn't at all agree with me.

thedrowner

i make a point of only listening to the dj's i know are excellent, and i rarely tune in, so i cant really voice my opinion on this one....except to say 2 things-, that i also, have heard a lot of bad press about the station. and secondly----GIVE ME A JOB AND ILL SOLVE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS !! (and dont tell me to send a tape in....im too lazy )

SimonMaher

Hello all,

Theres a few points in this thread that come up on a regular basis and Im always meaning to save the reply so I dont have to keep on typing the flippin thing again and again.

Basically the deal is this. First of all its impossible to keep everyone happy. As can be seen from the Eminem thread, some people really like it, and some people really dislike it. Thats the way it goes sometimes.

This next bit is important: The object is not to keep everyone happy with everything they hear. Thats why 98, Lite Etc do focus testing on every song before they play it. Yes, some people will tune into Phantom and dislike a certain song, or even group/genre of songs. But others will like them and not like other stuff. Thats just the way it works, and thats why Phantom is a success.

Every time this thread comes up, we ask people to suggest songs, bands and artists that they would like to hear us play more of via email. And each time, we maybe get two responses.

So, deal is, positive suggestions please. Always love to hear them.

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

SimonMaher

Yea,

What he said, refer to the thread on the phantom board. And just on the topic of the thread title, whats all this about us selling out? If Im not mistaken, selling out involves some silver (thirty pieces if Im not mistaken) being passed over. Last time I checked Phantoms bank balance, that silver sure as hell wasnt there. So, bad metaphors aside, no, Phantom hasnt sold out.

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

ferdi

i'd say more punk type stuff: eg the misfits would give phantom a much needed energy boost. some fast loud hi-octane stuff (i cant think of anything just now) stuff thats more free and expressive and dare i say youthful? not these indie bands who could be 18 to 80 for all i know. some more raw music eg: rancid,nofx, and even some ska (less than Jake, mad caddies, [spunge]) to make everyone get up and get skanky!! ("who threw that?!"):p
there is plenty of irish stuff like this. dont confine them to icon, play the unsigned irsh bands all the time god danm it!!

ferdi

ferdi

selling out to bad music in a probably successful attempt to boost the oulde ratings or something but i dont really know, i guess there is a demand for it or you guys wouldnt play it. i have the greatest amount of respect for you pete and your phantom empire, rubbing shoulders with tycoons such as rupert murdock and the like, i cant wait till my attempt to use music as my means of an income fails so i can go back to college and become a radio just like you. as i read my last few lines, i realise that it sounds like i'm slagging you off, i'm actually not at all, so dont take offence.

i leave the fate and future on our beloved phantom in your very capable hands.

peace man;)

ferdi

ps:the post on the phantom board is mine also.

lamda

Well ye see now, you cant please everybody all the time... for example id be all up for playing more punk but i HATE ska with a vengeance!!! But if people wanna hear it then i dont have a problem with it... its gotta be give and take!!

Sinister Pete

Ferdi,

Posts like this never cease to amase me. They purport that we have essentially become MOR then tell us to change. You haven't given us one single notion of what we've done what you would have us do. That is extremely poor commmunication.

R n B ??? When have we ever played R n B??? Tell you what, you come down and look at the records I have or every song we've played over the last two years, point out the offenders, look at the rest and we'll do a statistical analysis. My guess is these 'terrible' songs will not even make it to 3%. Then you can buy me and Pete Reed dinner in a nice restaurant after you apologise.

Morn

Does Sinister Pete = Left Pete?
And does anyone know the equivalent term for rightness?

Mewzel

well, i gotta say that ive been listening to phantom for about 4 years and i definitely agree that it has changed to more mainstream.
whats caused this? its become all request. well, if memory serves me the all request sunday with his sinisterness was the only request show.
the majority of people like mainstream music, thus the majority of requests will be mainstrem, therefore you get more mainstream than you used to in the days of yore.

ferdi

exactly what Mewzel said.

look pete and pete i'm not trying to pïss you off here, its your radio station so do whatever the fück you want with it.

one love

ferdi

lamda

Well heres a suggestion - instead of moaning about it why dont you ring or text the lads and ask for the music you wanna hear....

Mewzel

i dont know if anyone else agrees with this but waht atracted me to phantom in the first place was being introduced to new bands, bands i would never usually have come accross, and since its turned to requests only, i find this happens a lot less.
i miss it....

polarbelly

Originally posted by Mewzel
waht atracted me to phantom in the first place was being introduced to new bands, bands i would never usually have come accross, and since its turned to requests only, i find this happens a lot less.
i miss it....

i gotta disagree, i'm listening bout the same length as you 4 or 5 yrs and i reckon ph are playing the same amount of new bands as ever, listen to icon on a weds night, look at the phantom charts, you always see/hear new names

Mewzel

i agree icon is great for new bands, but its only irsh bands. i feel there is a bit more than just irish bands to acknowledged

Gar_ptc

Pete,

As regards to your statement, I don't think that listeners should have to specify what bands should be played, it should be taken that the station should play alternative music...i don't really mind the playing of chart rock occasionally,cos some ppl like it; but GOOD GOD!save us from,as ferdi said, the wallpaper indie.

variation is spicy, but there is no variation.I listen to jazz fm and always haev a cd and tape ready.The only way i discover good music is by going out on a limb and buying obscure bands in secret sound cellar.

And by going to the small unsigned bands,of course.unsigned bands never compromise to labels or what they think is to a popular taste!


I love pearl's show and the metal show!quite contrsating,showing that im not just hard core,or bore-core!
I loved steve conway in the morning!
this is all very cruel...kindness/cruelty...yak yak yak

Are there many complaints of this variety of texted in or email in?

Rob Taylor

Can someone please explain to me what (specifically) you think is wallpaper indie?? Examples please.

Gar_ptc

well,i wouldn't listen long enough to hear the pop groups name's

but basically the usual -strummy-strummy, cliched same old stuff with no thought,energy zest or originality to it.

the antithesis of polar.
polar are indie,but DAMMIT they are good!they have energy and originality.

don't start on asking definitions;by originality I mean summit that has the above elements!

are these indie kids afraid of distortion?they are all so afraid!

where are their balls when it comes to making music? cos what they make is undulating wavey,strummy,unabrasive inoffensive PAP pop

SimonMaher

Hello all,

This really is an interesting debate, and Im glad to see its being carried on in a positive manner!

Lets deal with a few points then:

Firstly, Mewzel says the station has become all request. Well, truth be known, it hasnt. In fact, its the opposite. In its earlier days Phantom used to play on average 70% of its output as requests. This figure is now less than 30%. The all request sunday is an obvious exception to this one of course.

Second, I dont buy the fact at all that Phantom has become more mainstream. Im looking at playsheets here, and its just simply not true. The range of music being played, allied with the growing amount of music available in studio to presenters has ensured that this is not the case. You really will have to base what you say on something a bit more solid than that.

One of the points thats reguarly missed is that pre-phantom there were a whole stack of bands that just never got played at all, so when we played them, suddenly it was "Wow, never heard them on the radio before". Now, many are more well known, and the arrival of other stations and programmes have meant that the artists, by definition are more well known too.

Gar you say that listeners shouldnt have to specify what bands should be played. Well, why not? Thats what they did in the past, in the "good old days" when Phantom was alternative. So what is differenct now? I really dont get that one.

And of course I wouldnt agree that there is no variation on Phantom. The trick with Phantom is to have a recognizable sound, but that every presenter brings their own tastes and talent to the show too. Thats where the variation comes in.

Keep trying.

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

Gar_ptc

what i mean is that we shouldn't have to do your guys job-i know that you guys do it out of love,but GOOD GOD! where's the alternative side when it all blends into one big boring bowl of bland aural porridge!

I think you guys are great since its only done out of love.
BUT think not more,of what would most ppl like-bland and inoffensive - but more of a variation of songs type.

i would hate to heatr only death metal/punk etc,that stuff rocks but id need some of the esay stuff....all this stuff is the BORING STUFF!

you know what; i shall offer my self to dj!

Silverfish

I don't think Phantom has changed.

When you first start listening to Phantom, of course its all different and 'new'. But if you have been listening for four or five years, of course its going to all just blend into the background.

Maybe the gripe here isn't with the station, which we are all, I think, very lucky to have, maybe its with the music that's out there at the moment? Phantom play whats available, I'm sure.

Yeah sure, there could be more punk/ska whatever, I personally don't like it but everyone's different. Like Lamda said, text in and ask. If you don't get it first time, don't come on and post and whine and moan, try again. Or maybe wait until there's a show on where you think the song you want will fit in, and text in a request then.

But I feel there's a lot of examining of the gift horse's mouth going on here.

Sinister Pete

Originally posted by Gar_ptc
well,i wouldn't listen long enough to hear the pop groups name's

but basically the usual -strummy-strummy, cliched same old stuff with no thought,energy zest or originality to it.

the antithesis of polar.
polar are indie,but DAMMIT they are good!they have energy and originality.

don't start on asking definitions;by originality I mean summit that has the above elements!

are these indie kids afraid of distortion?they are all so afraid!

where are their balls when it comes to making music? cos what they make is undulating wavey,strummy,unabrasive inoffensive PAP pop

Well that was specific. You want us to play Polar.

Gar_ptc

polar was an example of good indie,and if that style of music has to be played-indie is not my thing at all-that it should be innovative.

gave my gripe and cited an example.

more genre mixing; a big bowl mixed upPUNK SKA METAL INDIE ELECTRONICA, PAST HITS ,NEW STUFF,FOREIGN STUFF HOME STUFF.

keeping people on their toes;not having a "reliable"monotone.


its like;in dead poets society; they were told they had the freedom to walk however they wished, right, well what if you dont want to walk!

not thinking outside of the box,but thinking independantly

bandit

The fact of the matter is that it is impossible to cater for everybodys taste, to tar every acoustic indie guitar track as being "acoustic wallpaper" is crazy, if you are taking example of how it should be done look at south by polar {as you've mentioned} we by 66e, July by mundy aswell as the frames, the reindeer section and a hell of a lot of other acts phantom often plays.

To hear at least 10 songs you like in an hour on phantom is much better then 10 songs a day on any other of the other mainstream stations is it not??????????????

If you dont like it there is always your own music collection to with you can dj away to your hearts content!!!

Me personally i'd like to hear more older acts like Costello, Dylan, Cole, Cohen, Tim Buckley, Neil Young, etc so I could investigate their vast back catelogue more BUT as soon as phantom started play these acts you can bet on a thread about 'sad old bastard' music appearing.:p

shay

I think there is validity in the following point-

a lot of the bands played by phantom 4-5 years ago was indie then and, via becoming popular became "wall-paper indie" to the same listeners now.

Just a thought....

anony

Pete your absolutley right in saying that you can't please all the people all the time and even attempting to is the road to ruin.

I'd like to heard more left of centre electronic stuff like Aphex Twin, Amon Tobin, Squarepusher, Telefon Tel aviv, The Future Sound of London, DJ Shadow (whom I think you've played)
and definitley some Man or Astro-man?

It not so much the bland indie stuff that annoys me. Its that corperate punk rubbish like good charlotte, bowling for soup, that band that do "it's just porn mom" & that other one "The flavour of the week" that kind of thing *++(*)&*^ sucks and also the corporate grunge of Creed, Staind, Nickleback, Papa Roach
and I heard iris by the Goo Goo dolls on the other day need i say more

and would you mind putting some pixies, elastica, pj harvey , early suede, 80's Metallica ect back into the daytime mix

keep fighting the good fight

Tyrrial

All said.... phantom is all we have... and i for one am pretty happy that they can play at least one song i want to hear within about half an hour.



no body can like every song they play

polarbelly

mewzel... i was listening to phantom this morning on the way to college on the dart and all, and they didnt play a song that i didnt like, 4 or 5 of the songs played (in the space of an hour) i didnt know... or at least hadnt heard before on ph
so i'd say thats playin new bands, unless, they're back catalogue etc of bands that i know, or, unless they're just old bands that i dont know

i think as drowner says, you should pick out the shows you like the best and listen to them... if its a problem with during the day when there are no presenters, you just gotta realise that other folk's tates gotta be catered for too

nice one gar... antithesis of wallpaper indie... will have to tell the lads that one

Mewzel

maybe its just becasue ive become so accustomed to phantom over the years that i dont really see it as innovative anymore, but i really feel something has changed.

Tyrrial

hey polarbelly maybe the 5 or so song you liked could have been the most hated by someone else... it's all about tast...


i must say i can't say i alway agree with mewzels tast... but she does have a good sence of good music....

if you know what i mean

anyway.. i still think phantom is cool...

DerekD Goldfish

I think people are looking back through rose tinted glasses granted ive only been linstining for about 3 years but I havent noticed a signifigant difference. Sure when I first started listining I was intoduced to more new bands thats because I knew very few bands. Phantom playes some bands i hate(Nickelback) But most of the stuff I like and even if I dont like like some stuff I at least have respest for the artist(Pearl Jam) for example I cant stand but I can understand how other people like them. When I listined to other stations i was changing every few song because a song I couldnt stand came on. On phantom I like roughly 70% of the stuff and sure there are some bands I would like to hear more of(dead kennady's) but nobodys perfect. There is no way you can play music that will satisfy 30,000(I think thats phantoms listnership) all of the time people have different tastes.

polarbelly

Originally posted by Tyrrial
hey polarbelly maybe the 5 or so song you liked could have been the most hated by someone else... it's all about tast...


i must say i can't say i alway agree with mewzels tast... but she does have a good sence of good music....

if you know what i mean

anyway.. i still think phantom is cool...

banged the nail on the head...its all bout taste

+ for the record i'd say mewzel has excellent taste in music from what i've seen here

Gar_ptc

EXACTLY!

at a house party in micks,i had a look at his music collection and i ...hate is strong and wrong...but i found it BORING!was not my jazz at all-luckily i was hungover to valhalla and got pissed and stoned easily!!and that fisting porn made it all the more exciting....:D

so the 5 or so songs that mick liked today,i probably lashed on some ABBADDON INCARNATE or DILLINGER ESCAPE PLAN...

defny the removal of the corporate ****-i think mewzel said-is a good start.if people want to hear ir,let them listen to the mainstream stations!is that wrong to say?

a mixture of all sorts
VARIETY VARIETY VARIETY!!

mick,it is a compliment,but its not aimed at you...moreso that you are a rare breed of indie band -A GOOD ONE!very rare.

good indie;is oxymoronic!polar being the exception that proves the rule

SimonMaher

Eh?

I got lost after the mention of fisting porn on that one. Brings back a story about mittons that Tom E Brown will explain some day.

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

Steve Conway

Originally posted by Pete Reed
Eh?

I got lost after the mention of fisting porn on that one. Brings back a story about mittons that Tom E Brown will explain some day.

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

OK. And you say that *I* have a reputation????

Seriously though, I think that part of the restlessness that has sparked this debate is down to the "5-Year-Blues".

I'm not totally au-fait with the history of Phantom, but I know it's been going roughly 5 years, and this is a moment at which any alternative station, and its listeners, starts to feel "growing pains". Or I could be all poncy, and refer to it as "generational angst".

Phantom has a core of people who have been listening since the early days - in other words for 4 or 5 years. Phantom was cool and hip and totally alternative for them when they tuned in, and they have (mainly) stayed with it since.

However, over 5 years, your tastes change subtly, especially if that time is at the end of your teenage years, you will probably have gone through some life-changing experiences in the meantime.

For the first few years of a station's life, the new listeners joining the station are broadly the same as the original ones, but over time, this too changes. A 16 year-old discovering Phantom today will be different from the 16-year old who discovered it in 1998.

Stations will usually try to keep both the newer and the original listeners happy - the tastes are not that different, and it is usually at around 5 years that it becomes more obvious, as the age difference tends to become more significant. The station could choose to ignore the newer, younger listeners of course, but would that be the "alternative" path? Also, not all of the original listeners will be growing in the same direction - as people subtly change, they split off into all different areas.

Now Phantom is doing its best to keep everyone happy, and by "everyone" I mean people within the broad church of indie/alternative music (not everyone as in all the britney fans too!). The range of music played is broad, far wider than you would get on the commercial stations, and new music is still encouraged. But people will hear things that are not totally suited to their own style.

They key is to be tolerant and understanding - you may not like everything that is played on the station, but someone else will, and they may not like yours! As long as it's within the broad genre of indie/rock/alternative, don't those people deserve to be served by us too?

As a station, whe try to grow with our audience, but keep up to date also by hiring new DJs, people who are the age that the original Phantom people were when they were hired. (I might point out, I'm not actually speaking "for the stations" here, just as an individual).

We do the best we can under difficult circumstances - we are having to balance our normal paid employment with the work on Phantom, and between the two it can take up a lot of time. And some avenues that would be open to us if we had a licence, which would make it easier for us, and better for you, are just not viable.

In the past year we have lost our breakfast show because I had to make a choice between my employer or Phantom (they wanted me available to start at 8am or I had no job). If we had a licence, I would not have had to make that choice. We've lost quality speech and music broadcasters to new commercial stations who heard that we were doing well, and wanted to cherry-pick the talant from us. We were only a pirate - we had nothing by way or money or career path to entice these people to stay. And we have had difficulties placed in our way in terms of not being able to cover maor music events, or do certain other things - because we are a pirate.

I'm not complaining - these things are a fact of life. We choose to do what we do, and we choose to continue to do it in the way that we do, when we are prevented from going legal. We have tremendous fun, and get a great buzz out of it, and we hope that you do too.

However, we can't please everyone all the time, and we can only try to be true to ourselves and our musical beliefs. As I said, sometimes you will like it, sometimes you won't, and this is partly a function of the passage of time and changing circumstances, tastes, and different age ranges listening.

But please, don't accuse us of "selling out" - if that were the case, we would simply have walked away and done something more profitable with our time many years ago!

Anyway, rant over. I'll go back in the corner now

Keithaburke

I listen to phantom for one reason...

to hear music by local bands... Irish bands...

Phantom are one of the only radio stations playing music by young, up and coming bands. By musicians I'm likely to meet by going to gigs and venues around my own city.

The more Irish bands the better... Carry on Phantom!!


Keith

Kali

*raises hand quietly* any chance of less MTV-derived punk and more Minutemen/HuskerDu/Sonic Youth/Fugazi/Shellac? Or if someone already plays stuff like that then please tell me what time its on at

stimpson

Steve Conway makes a very good point here that has escaped me up till now. Phantom are trying to cater for a huge spectrum of ages. I'm nearly 30 and it just didn't occour to me that there are people of 16 and younger listening in. You aren't going to please all of the people all of the time and I do think Phantom get the balance right - or at least as right as they can given the diverse audience that they cater to. As long as I can get the odd request played and get to hear new music - Irish and otherwise - I'll be a Phantom listener.

I still stand by my comments in the Eminem thread though

madeline

Ah oxballs!!!!!!! Damn the man for keeping me away from the computer so I missed yet ANOTHER debate!!!! And all the big guns were in on it as well!! Okay well I'm late but can I just say that I have suggested some stuff I'd bloomim' LOVE to hear and apart from one delightful young mans' attempt to find/play some of the stuff( u know who u are!) it seems all my little suggestions fell on deaf ears! There's no justice but I still listen in when i gets the chance 'cause on a lorra levels Phantom is a hellaova lot better than the other sh1te on Dublin radio. and when i hate u then i stop being a lazy bugger and get up to put the cd in myself and have my own little shack of a station!!:D

Steve Conway

Originally posted by madeline
.... but can I just say that I have suggested some stuff I'd bloomim' LOVE to hear and apart from one delightful young mans' attempt to find/play some of the stuff( u know who u are!) it seems all my little suggestions fell on deaf ears! There's no justice ....

Hi Madeline

I'm on 11pm to 1am Wednesday nights. Text me early in the show with a wish-list and I'll try to do what I can for you . . . BUT:

* Don't abbreviate the band name or song title
* Tell me what album it's from if they have more than one
* If they are someone you think I might not have heard of, let me know if they are Irish or International.

If I don't play something for you, it's usually because I can't find it. I do restrict the amount of requests in the programme to roughly 20% (because it's not an all-request show) but a requests for a band I'm unfamiliar with or that is little heard will get priority over one for well-played artists *as long as I can find them*.

Better still, mail me: stevec@phantomfm.com - while you are at it you can include topics and tunes for my "Musical Chain"

Now, do I get to be called "young and delightful" too???

Tyrrial

Well steve your delightful... but the other DJ's....(in perticular Jack H) has hinted that your not very... young.. well he said "ainchent"

BrianD

This debate regularly crops up. Before becoming involved in Phantom I was a listener. To be quite frank the range of music played 4-5 years ago was less varied than it is now. Veterans of the station will agree with this as there was only a paltry few CDs in the library.

Listening to Phantom from 1996 to 1998 you could be GUARANTEED to hear Stone Roses, Radiohead, Massive Attack on almost an hourly basis. Friends of mine used to comment that you would always hear the stereotypical indie songs on Phantom when you switched it on.

I have no problems with the station being "mainstream indie" as it still offers listeners a choice or alternative from other stations. Around that "mainstream core" we hope that we introduce you to lesser known and new acts through programs like Pearls, the Metal Show, THe Doghouse, Jennys show and Icon. I'm sure nearly all DJs will bring in stuff from their own collections.

Having said that the feedback and comments are always valuable and listened to.

Muppet Monarchy

Is there a snowball's chance in hell of getting a copy of any random day's playlist from the last few weeks? I think that, more than anything else, would contribute positively to this debate. Certainly, if it immediately descends into " x are shyte ", then we'll all know where we stand.
Also, there's a fairly new DJ, dunno his name who really, really rocks. He's usually on late afternoon during the week - plays Irish stuff like Warlords of Pez, and some really good non-guitar infatuated music.

Raggamuffin

Originally posted by Muppet Monarchy
" x are shyte

X are certainly not shyte

Tyrrial

Please Raggamuffin, you can't possibly defend x.....:D




can you?

Amz

Originally posted by Kali
*raises hand quietly* any chance of less MTV-derived punk and more Minutemen/HuskerDu/Sonic Youth/Fugazi/Shellac? Or if someone already plays stuff like that then please tell me what time its on at

Ditto!

Couldn't really ask for much more........

Well ok i could but this would be a fine start!!!

Raggamuffin

Originally posted by Tyrrial
Please Raggamuffin, you can't possibly defend x.....:D




can you?

I hope you're being sarcastic about "x" and that you really do know that there was aband Called X form the 80's California punk scene......right?

Tyrrial

i say yes and nod..... we be forgetting this conversion...



deal?

Amz

Tee he he!
I saw it too hehehehe!!
I think we should hold this information and use it to blackmail Tyrrial.......

Hmmmm........

Methinks a plan is a brewing.......