future exchange upgrades

joec

I am wondering has any one seen anything that has come into the public domain from either eircom or esat about the future delivery of dsl enabled exchanges?The first phase seems to have more or less completed and while there are two exchanges where i live they are the city centre exchange and the biggest housing estate exchange which is also being used by the biggest industrial estate in the city.I myself live in the next biggest exchange in the city.It will be interesting to see as the advent of friaco looms will there be moves made to start enabling other exchanges.....any info anyone has would be interesting to get some info and discussion on this..........considering the fact that monsieur eircom has stated that friaco would be narrowband and the way forward is broadband if he is to live by this mantra shouldnt there be loads of exchanges planned for upgrade? or is he kicking for touch ?

Praetorian

I called Esat and Eircom last week. Both companies had no info on exchanges to be upgraded

Esat ESAT PLEASE PLEASE BALBRIGGAN!

I dont want Eircom's crappy ping ADSL!

SkepticOne

I think EsatBT are finished upgrading. A lot of the exchanges outside Dublin were part of the subsidised 'accelerated DSL' programme and this programme is now finished. I think Eircom took part in this too. Esat indicated in the paper before christmas that they would not be doing more exchanges in the new year.

joec

so thats it then no more exchanges will ever be done.....lol
i think ill have to take up a new hobby like am let me c stamp collecting or obsessing about star trek

SkepticOne

I think the Government should specify that the DSL services need to be affordable before they subsidise any more DSL.

Balfa

about eircom's crappy ping. i thought someone mentioned a while back that you could phone them and ask them to turn off something at the DSLAM that would improve ping at the expense of reliability?

joec

the main thing that i worry about is why should eircom or esat bother with anymore exchanges if u look at it from a cost point of view?i mean long term is it more cost efficent for them to have some users on flat rate nother portion on metered acess and feck all on dsl ? and if thats the case could it be years before this snail gets a blast of nitro ?

spongebob

Originally posted by joec
so thats it then no more exchanges will ever be done.....lol
i think ill have to take up a new hobby like am let me c stamp collecting or obsessing about star trek

ESAT will only finish off this list that Moriarty posted a few months back. ESAT have been very consistent, there is no daylight between Moriarty's list and a listing that Dave Bergin of ESAT gave at a conference in Kerry in April 2002. The Kerry speech is indicative of their roadmap over the past year.

EIRCOM still have a few exchanges to do as well, by July 2003 or so. ISTR that they include major economic nodes such as Mullingar, Sligo, Letterkenny and Monaghan . They have finished with Counties Dublin, Cork and Limerick for the foreseeeables.

Dundalk will be added in October/November 2003 (surprise , surprise) but then again Dundalk is one of the largest towns in the state (6th after Waterford or is that Drogheda ?) so that is only fair.

After the FRIACO decision faffle winds its way theough the High Court (by 2004) Eircom will then install another few DSLAM's here and there. Eircom have not touched their DSL website Since November. Their forward testing site has been down for days see This and even This

M

bk

Well I'm no expert on this, but according to the recent Comreg FRIACO doc, there are 48 primary exchanges in Ireland.

Now according to EsatBT here
they are currently live on 35 of these exchanges and 5 more shortly, which isn't bad at all.

I was talking to a biddy in Esat last week and she told me that some more exchanges will go live in the next two to three weeks and more to follow. Of course this could be complete BS, you know what they can be like.

BTW she told me to watch the above web page for when my exchange goes live, of course when I asked her which exchange I'm on, she said that she couldn't tell me that until it actually went live, doh!!

Now the following is purely conjecture, but here I go: it seems from the FRIACO doc that in order to offer FRIACO the OLO needs to be set up in each of the primary exchanges (if it wants to offer it to the whole country and not just some areas), it would seem likely to me that the backhaul for FRIACO out of each of the primary exchanges would be the same as that needed for DSL. You would then only need the LLU line termination gear in the exchange to be different (DSLAMS v POTS ports). It would seem silly to me if Esat was to set up all exchanges for FRIACO and not take the oppurtunity to also set them up for DSL, after all there are only 13 out of 48 to go <winge> and wouldn't you know that despite living in Dublin city im on one of the 13 </winge>

Now as I said the above is just a guess (dream) and that I'm not an expert, perhaps others (Muck?) could correct me if I'm wrong about the gear being similar.

MDR

I think the Government should specify that the DSL services need to be affordable before they subsidise any more DSL.

Here, here ....

bk

Ops, just saw Mucks reply, after I posted.

See how all the exchanges listed are on the South side of Dublin?

Do you think they are likely to finish off the last few exchanes in Feb/March, or is this it and I should just go away and get Via Networks DSL?

Thanks

spongebob

You're right BK .

One detail. The 48 Tandem Exchanges would be the Eircom network nodes.

ESAT 's list of 40 Exchanges was predicated on the town being on a railway line along which their fibre network runs.

I dunno what ESAT will do about Tandem towns such as Letterkenny......it being miles from Sligo and therefore miles from a railway line. Dundalk IS on a railway line but ESAT never went near it.

The 48 tandems also tend to be main exchanges in Call Areas. Soem of these Call areas will be retired over the next 2 years or so. Donegal will soon have 1 STD code (074) instead of 5 (072,3,4,5,7,) . This will directly affect the Eircom network topology in the BMW region. By 2007 there will only be 5 STD codes, Galway, Castlebar , Sligo , Letterkenny and Athlone.

M

MDR

See how all the exchanges listed are on the South side of Dublin?

it boggles my mind no end ...

Wireless ISP's, ESAT, NTL they all run BB services on the south side.

eh chaps, hello out there,

there are half a million peeps in the north of the city,
most of whom get a pay check at the end of the month too.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by MDR
it boggles my mind no end ...

Wireless ISP's, ESAT, NTL they all run BB services on the south side.

eh chaps, hello out there,

there are half a million peeps in the north of the city,
most of whom get a pay check at the end of the month too.

Summerhill is on the North side. What are ye complaining about?

MDR

I have always considered anywhere between the canals as still more or less the centre of town ... within reason, I amn't suggesting Harolds Cross is city centre ...

spongebob

I'm sure Ray'll be delighted, 1 ESAT exchange on the north side ....just about. ESAT fibre runs thru the following bits of DNS and hinterland.

Fairview
Clontarf
Sutton
Darndale Sur Mer.. (or Bayside as the locals call it)
Malahide
Portmarnock
Skerries

and

Balbriggan

as well. But divil a DSLAM

then onto Drogheda.

In the west they were similarly 'inconsistent'

I think ESAT have no excuse along the coast North of Dublin. Malahide is hardly small or lacking in affluence / computers.

M

LoGiE

So still no sign of Malahide/Portmarnock being upgraded then...How can this shower be finished upgrading Dublin when they've left out over half the bloody county? Fingal is the fastest growing part of the country population wise as more people relocate just outside the city. Its nuts that on the southside of the city your spoilt for choice with IBB, Eircom, Esat, Via Networks and Irishwisp. The Northside and Fingal are left with virtually nothing, In fact if you live in Fingal you'll only be able to get ADSL from Eircom and thats if you live in Swords, Blanch and for some ludicrious reason Sutton?(Very small pop.) Fingal is a major population cente FFS you muppets!
I've just noted Muck you've mentioned railway stations and the fibre that runs along side the tracks. Any of these wireless ISPs could put base stations on smaller masts at the train stations giving broadband access to....
Dublin Connolly
Clontarf
Killester
Harmonstown
Raheny
Kilbarrack
Howth
Bayside
Sutton
Portmarknock
Malahide
Donabate
Rush/Lusk
Skerries
Balbriggan
Gormanstown
Laytown
Drogheda
Dundalk.

I've no idea how our goverment plan to make 5mb connections available to every home by 2005...At the moment you can't even get anything over 64k on the Northside Less then 20 mins from the Capital by Dart...

Ayashii

Talking to Eircom last Thursday they told me that Malahide is now enabled (dunno if its true but a technician is meant to be running a test on my line as I wasnt in their database) and that there are meant to be another batch of exchanges coming on line Feb.

bk

Muck just answered your question SkepticOne.

Take me for example, I'm in D9, a high density area, with lots of people who would love BB, in my estate alone I know of at least a dozen people who want BB and I'm sure there are many more.

Yet our only option is Eircom and I don't really want to get caught in a 12 month contract and cap with them. BTW my area only recently got Eircom DSL enabled, long after everywhere else in Dublin and my home in Cork. It seems the north side of Dublin is 6 - 12 months behind the south side and the other big cities.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by bk
Yet our only option is Eircom and I don't really want to get caught in a 12 month contract and cap with them. BTW my area only recently got Eircom DSL enabled, long after everywhere else in Dublin and my home in Cork. It seems the north side of Dublin is 6 - 12 months behind the south side and the other big cities.

One quick way of getting competition in would be by lowering the bitstream wholesale price. Only one operator is selling products based on bitstream in Ireland because the price is so high.

spongebob

I am unaware of the reason why SWATHES of Dublin were ignored when it strikes me that there would be plenty of business for ESAT there.

Meanwhile Ballinasloe and Gorey got DSL, fair play to them.

I forgot there is a railway line with ESAT Fibre from

Summerhill (Connolly)
Drumcondra
Glasnevin
Cabra
Blanchardstown
Lucan
Leixlip
Maynooth

as well. Any sign of ESAT out there either?

M

MDR

Next meeting IOFFL get with ESAT, gonna try and make sure that is really high on the agenda.

Muck where are you getting this info on ESAT fibre in North Dublin from ... ?

spongebob

Some of Esats fibre is not high capacity, I believe that a bit of it is only capable of 34Mbit, thats porbably the Northward one. Otherwise why are they running a fibre form Connolly to Drogheda and not servicing anywhere else.

The westward fibre does Mullingar and Sligo and part of Athlone

This information following is secret, don't tell anyone about It or I'll be in trouble.

They have way more fibre in DNS than the railway fibre to the North. See Here in case they may start offering implausible explanations .


This List from 2 years ago tells you where they have DWDM fibre (bucketloads of capacity) as distinct from 34 Mbit fibre which is easily maxed out. I heard a rumour that they only had 16 pairs heading north.

Funnily enough, the 40 exchanges on the 'current' list are pretty much all in towns on that 2 year old list. The exceptions are Gorey and Ballinasloe unless I'm very much mistaken. So thats what they have been doing for the past 2 years , along with pissing off their customers.

M

The Cigarette Smoking Man

Originally posted by LoGiE
.....and for some ludicrious reason Sutton?(Very small pop.)

No wonder I always get my 100KB/s

MDR

Oh look esat fibre runs past my house .... quel suprise ...

bk

Originally posted by SkepticOne
One quick way of getting competition in would be by lowering the bitstream wholesale price. Only one operator is selling products based on bitstream in Ireland because the price is so high.

Agreed, however if Esat can role DSL out to all exchanges and then start a nice ad campaign, then I think this will get competition going.

At the moment there is so much demand, yet so little supply, they can simply milk it.

I don't think we will really see competition until:
1) FRIACO is out, thus getting Eircom to push DSL more.
2) ESAT have updated all exchanges. (they can't really have a big NoLimits type ad campaign until then).
3) Wireless becomes a real threat, with wide coverage and not just a toy.

I think what would really ignite competition is if either NTL got back on the bandwagon (for real) or if NevadaTel/UTV started selling DSL, either through LLU or cheaper bitstream.

BTW SkepticOne there are two companies selling Ericom bitstream, Eircom.net and Via Networks.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by bk
BTW SkepticOne there are two companies selling Ericom bitstream, Eircom.net and Via Networks.

LOL.

spongebob

Don't forget that there is another carrier with much Fibre in DNS

The one and only , the Inimitable ...........

MDR

tbh I would prolly have more luck playing games with ratty ...

spongebob

You DID ask.

If you were to live around TCSM's 'hood you would be very close to some of their fibre.

Ring the PR Bunnies linked above and ask them about This fibre which was installed and apparently lit as well over 2 years ago. Avoid getting the Bunnies involved in anything technical .

Don't mention Copper or Internet.

Tell them you wish to hook some skewels to their fibre or something fluffy like that. Tell them that Francie Jeffers himself promised it by 2002 AT THE LATEST.

Tell them you'll take 34Mbit for starters.

M

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Muck
I am unaware of the reason why SWATHES of Dublin were ignored when it strikes me that there would be plenty of business for ESAT there.

For some reason, Esat seem unable to sell basic 512k ADSL at less than 100 euros. Eircom, who have been at it longer, have only sold just over 2,000 services to date. This is roughly in the region of 40 to 60 a week.

Let us assume there is some legitimate reason that they are forced to sell at these unattractive prices. Can we really say that there is business for them in new exchanges?

spongebob

I was concentrating on technical reasons as to why DNS is not a desert, and as to how very very little ESAT have done in the past 3 years or so.

M

MDR

You DID ask.

sorry shouldn't have been so off-hand in my reply

If you were to live around TCSM's 'hood you would be very close to some of their fibre.

?

....

Let call a spade a spade,

Within my immediate neigbourhood there is five schools (2 secondary, 3 primary) and a few thousand houses. There also seems to be alot of fibre in the area.

Slap bang in the middle of all this is a community built recreation centre ...

Community Run Wireless ISP .... how hard could it be ?

MDR

Oh yeah,

another question,

where can I get my greasy mits on a list locations of Eircoms Exchanges ....

dahamsta

Community Run Wireless ISP .... how hard could it be ?

Very. Believe me.

adam

bricks

Is this estate covered by either of the beasts for DSL? (ESAT/Eircon)

The Cigarette Smoking Man

Originally posted by Muck
If you were to live around TCSM's 'hood you would be very close to some of their fibre.

Hood! I live on the 'Santa Monica Boulevard' of the Northside

MDR - there's Esat fibre out this way, they are laying it along by the DART line at the moment.

zynaps

Originally posted by Muck
I forgot there is a railway line with ESAT Fibre from
...
Cabra

So that railway out behind my house and those trees and such is carrying lit fibre?
Big fat jaysus load of good it's doing for us...

BoneCollector

one of the dodgy probs i see here for starting real competition and price is..
errcom have to justify its over priced ADSL wholessale.

if real compettions happend and some one offered BB very close to errcoms wholesale price then.. that would force the cat outa the bag, cuz if errcom wanna keep customers and selling they have to lower there whole sale price, and if they CAN do that then they can no longer justify there current wholesale price and it will have to drop which makes the whole thing perpetiual...

!1) some one supplys bb less than whole sale
2) errcom price (drops below wholesale)
3) resellers already buying wholesale will question the price there paying cuz ercom cant justify
4) resellers lower there prices to compete

Goback to step 2

but of course errcom would not like to see that ball rolling, if only it could be pushed a bit it might move a little.

Praetorian

I'm about 500 Metres from the railway line in Balbriggan...What sort of equipment would i need to plug their Fibre directly into my pc

Notice ESAT. I want ADSL by June....If not...ill buy an axe instead :cool:

Richard Barry

Originally posted by Praetorian
I'm about 500 Metres from the railway line in Balbriggan...What sort of equipment would i need to plug their Fibre directly into my pc

Notice ESAT. I want ADSL by June....If not...ill buy an axe instead :cool:

One of these might do the job. Don't think you will find them in the Jan sales at your local supermarket.

Suggest you talk to the fibre owner before installing!

R.

joec

i have just had this email from adsl now........
Dear Joe,

Unfortunately as you know your local exchange is not yet covered by EsatBT for DSL roll out. However, it is expected that there will be an announcement shortly of the next round of exchanges to be enabled. I will keep you informed.

so maybe there are thing sgoing on behind the scenes ?

also im suprised that no1 has spoken about the rumour that eircom will be offering a "residential" offering for 45 euro..........................has any1 else heard about this ?

Ardmore

Originally posted by joec
i also im suprised that no1 has spoken about the rumour that eircom will be offering a "residential" offering for 45 euro..........................has any1 else heard about this ?

It's been mentioned a couple of times (and I've heard it from an independent source with connections to eircom, so I'm inclined to believe it).

If the €45 price holds up, I'm in. If it's €45+VAT, I'll bitch and moan about it a bit longer (if only because I think it should be illegal to quote prices without VAT, especially in the residential market).

I also don't want any of that USB crap that I hear some people mentioned in the ESAT service either.

scojones

€45+VAT would be bad in comparison with other countries but i'd pay it. Definately.

Damian

€45 might sound OK, but what's the bets that it wont be 512K? I would expect this 'residential' offering to be a crappy 256K with a 50 to 1 contention ratio.

OR has anyone head differently?

bk

What is the betting that it will be EUR 45 + VAT, 256K / 128K and a 1 GB cap :rolleyes:

At least if it does come out, more likely with a 3 GB cap, then the cap will probably be removed (or greatly increased) from the SOHO offering.

Brian

sceptre

Originally posted by Ardmore
(if only because I think it should be illegal to quote prices without VAT, especially in the residential market).

Agreed. The ASAI take the same view - if you do hear or see adverts (as opposed to government ministers:rolleyes: ) quoting a price ex-VAT for a product that isn't exclusively available (or targetted pretty much exclusively) to businesses, they always like to hear about it.

joec

id nearly bet my house on it that the offering will be 256.........
this is better than what i have but its annoying to be honest as it shows eircoms non futuristic policies.it merely shows them dragging their heels to make as much profit in the mid term....
if eircom can offer it at this price they are also obliged to give a better wholesale bitsream price to esat ?so that means that a bit of bidding may take place? or even god forbid a price war ?lol:p

Dustaz

Originally posted by Damian
€45 might sound OK, but what's the bets that it wont be 512K? I would expect this 'residential' offering to be a crappy 256K with a 50 to 1 contention ratio.

OR has anyone head differently?

I have. When i heard the rumour first, i was told it would be a 512 service to kill off esats residential offering. Again, this source is a pretty good one, so im letting myself get optimistic.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Dustaz
I have. When i heard the rumour first, i was told it would be a 512 service to kill off esats residential offering. Again, this source is a pretty good one, so im letting myself get optimistic.

If they really wanted to kill Esat's offer they'd remove the cap, or at very least raise it to something like 10Gb's.

Having said that i don't want to give my money to Eircon so if someone else goes one better on there offer i'd snap it up.

Ardmore

Originally posted by Damian
€45 might sound OK, but what's the bets that it wont be 512K? I would expect this 'residential' offering to be a crappy 256K with a 50 to 1 contention ratio.

I don't have a problem with a 50/1 contention ration.

Do you know what your dialup ISPs contention ration is?

And I don't have a problem with a 256K service, as long as it means that they will extend the service to lines that are currently too far from the exchange for higher speeds. www.boards.ie won't load noticably faster on a 512k connection than it will on a 256k connection. Neither will most of the sites I want "always on" access to.

I just checked a couple of US DSL providers, and www.covad.com offer 384/128 for €39.95/month. Verizon offer "up to 768/128" for $39.95 (with a 12 month contract,and big caveats about how the actual speed depends on the distance you are from the exchange). (Covad and Verizon are two of the biggest providers in the North Eastern US. Bellsouth charge $49.95/month, but don't say what you get for that.

Given that these prices don't include any taxes, the mooted €45 price point almost sounds reasonable! (yeah, you're right, it's probably just the after-effects of the anaesthetic the dentist used earlier today!)




Broadband instead of tax cuts?