FRIACO - from www.comreg.ie today

highlight

ComReg believes the introduction of a wholesale flat rate internet product will be of considerable benefit for the future development of the internet market in Ireland in addition to being of significant benefit to users. ComReg is dedicated to opening the way for the development of new and innovative internet access models which will further stimulate the growth in Internet usage in Ireland.

ComReg considers the availability of a FRIACO product will help stimulate competition, encourage economic efficiency and provide benefit to end users. ComReg believes that the requesting OLOs are reliant on eircom to provide wholesale flat rate interconnection if they are to offer a similar product at retail level. Failure by eircom to provide such access could potentially have an adverse effect on Ireland standing as a centre for e-Commerce as well as for the future development of the use of the Internet in Ireland. The ODTR has issued codes for internet use and several other papers on internet development and usage.

In June 2002, two other licensed operators (OLOs) submitted Statements of Requirements (“SORs”) to eircom requesting a Flat Rate Internet Access Call Origination (“FRIACO”) service on the 1893 internet access code. From this time until the 28th November a range of private and commercial negotiations on FRIACO were undertaken. However as it became clear that discussions had reached a point where further progress was unlikely to be achieved in any reasonable timeframe, ComReg intervened to establish a forum between eircom and the two requesting OLOs with the aim of expediting the process and ultimately enabling the delivery of the product. The main purpose of the forum was to produce an agreed FRIACO product description.

In light of the increasing demand from users for a flat rate offering for internet access, the contribution this can make to overall economic development and in the interests of developing and sustaining competition in the telecommunications sector, ComReg believed it was more practical and expedient to assist in the introduction of a commercially and technically viable product offering for FRIACO.

Given the importance of delivering a FRIACO product to the marketplace in a timely fashion and to clarify the process going forward ComReg is intending to issue a decision notice at the beginning of January when the last details of the product description should be finalised, and mandating the introduction of a wholesale FRIACO product on a phased basis. Furthermore, ComReg envisions setting dates for the negotiation of terms and conditions and the submission of cost orientated pricing coupled with the processes required to enable a robust wholesale interconnection product.

The objectives of the Commission as specifically set out in S12 of the Communications Regulation Act, 2002, provide the Commission’s objectives in exercising its functions include the following: to promote competition, to contribute to the development of the internal market, to promote the interests of users within the community. The actions being taken on FRIACO are entirely in line with this.

Dangger

Great news! Congratulations to all parties involved!

SkepticOne

Well done to the parties concerned.

ComReg, Nevada, Esat.

And, of course, Eircom

MDR

woo hoo !!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Fancypants

Congrats to IrelandOffLine

Mr E

Happy Christmas to all at ComReg! And well done, IOFFL! Hope you enjoy the holiday season.

Remember that this is only one battle, though - the war goes on.......

- Dave.

Yoda

Congratulations to everyone who worked so hard to make this a reality! Especially to Dangger and Xian, sine qua non.

For my part I look forward to the new packages UTV will be able to offer in a new and competitive market.

Glad Yule,
Yoda

Lemming

Ohh yeahhh

Dustaz

Woo Hoo ))

Objective 1's days are numbered


As for Objective 3, see other thread

Tellox

What an xmas pressie! God bless us everyone..
Now if utv offer a non-dc service compatible with ISDN...

Boston

I can remember, way back in the day, talking to dahamsta about this day, and how it would come. Cheers all. About bloody time, and anyone who says this has nothing to do with IoffL's pressure, is a muppet.

the big party is coming, and your all invited

De Rebel

Anybody know what this means

the introduction of a wholesale FRIACO product on a phased basis.

Oh and well done IOFFL

dahamsta

ComReg Documents:

Press Release
Information Notice

adam

SkepticOne

I think it is most likely to be phased at certain levels of Eircom's network e.g tandem exchange level rather than certain parts of the country. Needs to be clarified.

Boston

I think the phased bite means that it will be technically available before it will be actually available. And going on BT, as far as i remember after it was technically available it was just afew weeks before it was available to consumers. If this things isn't just hot air we could see real flate rate sometime in febuary. But somehow i dont think so.

oeNeo

Hurrah!

yankinlk

does this translate to free local calls like in the states? ie if i ring only 061, it is covered under the cost of my monthly rental.

Ruu_Old

Well done all involved

arent we in the phased basis as it now?

BoneCollector

Some people have here have been screeming for broadband rather than friaco (narrowband) but are i think, underestimating the effects of friaco when its introduced.

My opinion (for whats its worth) would be.. if i was to look ahead about 12-24 months, if FRIACO is introduced in jan 2003 at a competative price and this price is as it should be, way below broadband pricing.

The effects should 1st stimulate internet access growth in ireland,
2nd i could see it directly effecting the cost of broadband to force the price down to an acceptable level.
so FRIACO could be the catalist to reducing broadband costs.
why?
I think (without being tecnicaly up on this) that its probably more cost effective in the end to provide ADSL than to allow everyone on friaco narrowband, thus the next step will be to encourage everyone on narrow band to move to broadband, and the driving force will be cost!
if its too high no one will move so it will be in the best interest of all parties to reduce the price of broadband..

thats my 10c worth

SkepticOne

DCMNR also deserve credit here. Making flat-rate an "absolute priority" and other work have helped greatly to focus minds.

Moriarty

Originally posted by yankinlk
does this translate to free local calls like in the states? ie if i ring only 061, it is covered under the cost of my monthly rental.

No, it will mean that ISPs that offer a friaco product will use a phone number such as 1892 123 456. It has no effect on the cost of local phone calls.

Dangger

2nd i could see it directly effecting the cost of broadband to force the price down to an acceptable level.

As Bonecollector said, this will have a major bearing on the cost of broadband also. With flat rate a reality its going to make inroads across the board. Its just not plausible with the introduction of a dial up flat rate product the current extortionate prices for ADSL can be maintained.

Yes it will take time, but at least things are looking up!

PiE

Finally, some good news :]

Well done lads (even if there is still that niggling doubt at the back of my head thats been instilled through years of being buggered by eircom and various other incompetent govt-type people.)

kamobe

WHO said Santa wasn't real? He was even nice enough to give me my pressie a day early this year....

Christmas dinner will be that bit more filling tomorrow knowing my phone bill is soon going to be affordable again

yellum

Adding to what Bonecollector said, friaco will encourage the use of the net without the pressures of worrying about time online and cost.

Without these things holding an average websurfer away they will start to use the net more and more, quickly demanding faster connections as their thirst for knowledge and service grows. Dialup will not do in todays kludgy bloated media rich internet. Just like chips get faster so will the push for quality broadband speeds.

Add things like Metcalfes and Reeds law and the more users interacting without monetary pressure will mean the greater value the local irish net will be as a result. Once Joe Soap "gets " the net Ireland will be the proper E Hub of Europe. ... or something

zynaps

Wheeee, happy Christmas lads
I'll take this news as a present in itself... it's better than the soap I got my cousin, and the facecloths I got me uncle.

Sláinte! Let's hope it gets sorted out and implemented soon... whuppah, and goodbye surf "nolimits"
Maybe I'll even get a separate line for the net, since I won't have to watch for the 8am mark when it works out!

Partay!

zynaps

pork99

before we get into a big circle jerk here girls, has anyone any idea what Eircom are planning to set as wholesale price for this?

could it be set at some offensively take-the-piss level like E60+ per month?

STaN

Originally posted by Dusty Claus
Woo Hoo ))

Objective 1's days are numbered


As for Objective 3, see other thread

which thread?

eircomtribunal

Originally posted by highlight
Failure by eircom to provide such access could potentially have an adverse effect on Ireland standing as a centre for e-Commerce as well as for the future development of the use of the Internet in Ireland. The ODTR has issued codes for internet use and several other papers on internet development and usage.

While the news that we seem to have finally inched our way towards an affordable (?) (we wait with baited breath for a 10 to 20 euro offer) narrowband Internet access mode is of course welcome - I find ComRegs Politbureau-style statement nauseating. They are still in deep denial of reality. And that is not a good position, as Dr. Freud will tell you. "..could potentially have an adverse effect.." "..Ireland standing as a centre of e-Commerce..."

...the submission of cost orientated pricing... [/QUOTE]

Mere cost orientation is not good enough - it needs to be cost orientated as cost of an efficient operator.

BoneCollector

could it be set at some offensively take-the-piss level like E60+ per month?

NopE!

It cant justifiably be introduced with a wholesale price of 60 euro cus its way to close to the wholesale price of adsl.

it will have to match at least, current off peak offerings with the added bonus that you can dial up anytime within a 24hr period.

ando

ComReg is intending to issue a decision notice at the beginning of January when the last details of the product description should be finalised, and mandating the introduction of a wholesale FRIACO product on a phased basis

Ack, It sure is looking better than ever before but I'm still very much skeptical

pork99

It cant justifiably be introduced with a wholesale price of 60 euro cus its way to close to the wholesale price of adsl.

ok E60 pm is probably a bit alarmist

however what we NEED is flat rate priced at no more than E20 pm

will we see that? I hope we will, I just have a gut feeling that eircom will w^nk all over us yet again

eircomtribunal

Originally posted by pork99


however what we NEED is flat rate priced at no more than E20 pm

will we see that? I hope we will, I just have a gut feeling that eircom will w^nk all over us yet again

Same feeling here.
Ireland has so much catching up to do with Internet take-up. If our ComReg should sanction anything leading to a consumer price above 20 euros, we will really have to turn up the heat on them.

Peter

BoneCollector

will we see that? I hope we will, I just have a gut feeling that eircom will w^nk all over us yet again

You also got to realise that its also down to third parties that are also battling for a reasonable wholesale rate too. so its just as much there responsibilty to argue for the lowest wholesale rate too! :cool:

SkepticOne

As far as pricing is concerned, it is most likely to be done on a per-port basis with various options depending on where the ISP interconnects.

JohnK

sounds good

-ADREN-

Ok Really stupid question, and maybe it was answered allready back with in all that excitement.. but ehh

Why are we all so happy :D:D

Can someone just plainly tell me whats just after happening..


Is it that it could it be 20euros a month for isdn and no cost per minute? Or whats the hole happy thing about

SkepticOne

Originally posted by -ADREN-
Can someone just plainly tell me whats just after happening..

It is not flat-rate in itself, but it is generally understood that flat-rate (56k or ISDN) can't happen without the appropriate deal from the incumbent. Nor does FRIACO guarantee flat-rate - this depends on there being a competitive ISP market and also the wholesale rate must be such that it allows attractive flat-rate products. It could still all go wrong if the wholesale price is too high. It should therefore be regarded as a milestone on the way to flat-rate. Most people, though, will only be happy when actual flat-rate products are being advertised. ISDN should be the same price as dial-up in the eventual services, though this will be down to the ISP. The same wholesale rate will be charged for both.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Nemesis

Last July I gave up.
No flat rate internet access main reason.
I had ISDN which I found fine for gaming etc...It was the horrible phone bills I had...250 a month phone bill.
I'd live with ISDN and flat rate....
I sold my PC for 900 Euros..(great deal...for me.:)..)...Rang Eircom and got my ISDN removed...found my Golf clubs but alas not my swing and totally ..(tried to) forget about online fun.
Then I decided to change my phone Company and left Eircom.
So Eircom rings and asks me why I left...and didnt I realise eircom were cheaper than the company I was currently with!.
So I told the girl the reason I left Eircom..and that I didnt care if they were cheaper...and asked her to make sure the reason I gave was recorded.
Nemesis offline campaign might soon be coming to an end.
And spending 5 months offline..selling my pc has now got me a nice little nestegg of 1500 euros to go towards my new Alienware pc.;)
Nemesis.

Ruu_Old

Welcome back Nemesis couldnt stay away could ya i had given up last year too until i found help here

Dangger

Found this on the EsatBT site whilst googling for something completely different. It's an old press release but it outlines the potential retail price for FRIACO, and is from EsatBT themselves. It may be an interesting footnote for this thread.

Esat BT unveils plan to introduce Flat Rate Internet Access to Irish consumers early next year

Esat BT today announced that it intends to introduce Flat Rate Internet Access (FRIACO) to Irish consumers from early 2003, subject to the successful conclusion of negotiations with eircom, and the approval of the Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation (ODTR).

The key elements of the plan are as follows:

Esat BT intends to launch its Flat Rate Internet Access service early in 2003
The new service will provide un-metered access to the Internet for consumers
Esat BT is hoping to provide the service for a monthly charge of €25-€35, which is comparable to rates in the UK, though this is subject to eircom's wholesale price

Bill Murphy, Chief Executive Officer of Esat BT said that the introduction of Flat Rate Internet Access was long overdue. "The message we have been getting loud and clear from industry groups, State agencies, businesses and consumer lobbying groups is that Flat Rate Internet Access is urgently required. This is the key enabler in stimulating Internet usage in Ireland, and to stop us falling further behind our neighbours in Western Europe."


He said that the Internet statistics for July reported by the Nielsen/NetRatings service backed up the Esat BT case. "Internet penetration in Ireland is lagging well behind at just 34% - the third lowest in Europe. The average time spent online by Irish Internet users is less than four hours per month, well below the European average. What's even more worrying is that less than half the people with Internet access from their homes actually use it when at home."


Mr. Murphy contrasted Ireland's position with that of the UK, where Flat Rate Internet Access was launched in 2000. "Home Internet penetration has now reached 50% and is still growing, with 10 million UK homes having Internet access. The average time spent online per month is close to seven hours - almost double the Irish rate."


Mr. Murphy said that Esat BT was now having constructive discussions with eircom in relation to the provision of wholesale Flat Rate Internet Access, and had also kept the ODTR and the Government fully informed of its plans to introduce the service.


"Based on our discussions with eircom to date, we are confident that we can launch our Flat Rate Internet Access service early next year. We are equally determined that the price must be right to ensure that we have a product and service that will be attractive to consumers. To that end, we believe an approximate price of €25-35 per month is both fair and appropriate. However, that is dependent on the level of eircom's wholesale price".


Mr. Murphy said that the current system of charging for Internet access had clearly not worked and while the rollout of broadband would help the situation in the longer term, it would be many years before Irish consumers had full access to it.


"Flat Rate Internet Access is a key migration path to broadband. As long as the meter is ticking, users will limit their time on-line, thus restricting their ability to fully exploit and enjoy what the Internet can deliver. Eliminate that cost uncertainty, and the model changes fundamentally. Users will 'linger on-line' and be more amenable to surfing, shopping, reading, researching etc. but not until we deal with the cost issue"

SkepticOne

Also, UTVi have said that lack of FRIACO was preventing them from offering a true flat-rate product:

Originally posted by Martin-UTVi
We still do not have access to a proper FRIACO modeled product in the ROI, so that is why this "limit" is in place. Obviously we'd love to have no limit (although this in itself is impractical as most UK ISP's implement some sort of profligate use clause), but I think we'd be waiting too long on Eircom to implement 1892/1893 models for us to take advantage of :-(

Originally posted by Martin-UTVi
We will be constantly looking at this limit over the course of time. Until we have a FRIACO product/model available from Eircom we have to implement some sort of threshold as we're being billed for every minute you use. We could offer 24/7 access at €400 per month.....but obviously nobodies going to go for that

These are from this thread

OHP

The bubble has not quite yet burst. This is only a pinhole. Dont rejoice just yet untill you see what Should Follow

OHP

Cork

ComReg considers the availability of a FRIACO product will help stimulate competition, encourage economic efficiency and provide benefit to end users. ComReg believes that the requesting OLOs are reliant on eircom to provide wholesale flat rate interconnection if they are to offer a similar product at retail level.

I was talking to a UTV guy a few months ago - he gave me the whole chapter & verse of UTV trying to get FAIRCO.


I think things are beginning to move.

What timescale do you envisage?

Ruu_Old

when Comreg has done their part...its up the ISPs right? so is there much work for the ISPs to make changes to implement flat rate into their systems?

spongebob

expect nothing concrete before easter IMO.

the ISP's will launch immediately. The unholy triumvarate of the Regulator , The Rat, and the fellas with Rats on their Heads will need a day out in court first

M

Cork

But do you think that it will all end up in court?

Will Eircom accept the Comregs decision?

I think that the tide is turning aganist THE MOUSE on this issue. I feel they are big differences between the current minister and the previous incumbant. I think that Comreg is an improvement on the ODTR.

But - Court Action? Is that like grasping at straws at this stage?

lampsie

Well, far as I can see, this can go one of two ways...

#Scenario 1

Eircom Board Rat #1: "Hmm, looks like the games up lads"
Eircom Board Rat #2: "Well look, I reckon we charge into this, get a product out that beats the competition " <everyone laughs> "..ah hah hah, I know...But anywho, yep, get a product out that pisses over everyone, and gets the sheep to sign up in their droves, tinking Eircom is fabulous as always, agreed?"

Chorus of Rats: "Agreed!!"




#Scenario 2

Eircom Board Rat #1: "Hmm, looks like the games up lads"
Eircom Board Rat #3 (legal department): "Not so fast..."


- lampsie.

MDR

I would be very suprised if we didn't see a high court action ...
these guys aren't gonna give up their minute charging without a fight, it means too much money to them.

Ruu_Old

i dont think we'll see any high court action, they've been there done that, time and time again, i think we might see a pathetic attempt at a flat rate product resulting in Eircom being pummelled by the other ISP's