EsatBT Residential Package, bye bye unlimited cap

Raskolnikov

http://register.iol.ie/dsl/

Just noticed this from iol.ie, i'm suprised it's slipped under peoples noses.

Speeds are up to 256kbps downstream / 128kbps upstream·
Connection fee is €151.25 inc. VAT - Monthly fee is €59.90 inc. VAT
Basic network terminating equipment is included ·
There is a monthly download allowance of 4GB.*

*Esat BT reserves the right to charge 3c inc. VAT per MB for material downloaded over and above the stated monthly allowance

What looks interesting is the part about if there is enough demand from a particular area DSL will be rolled out there, i'll be registering my interest.

From what i can see it's only slightly better than Eircom's offering of ADSL at 1/2 the speed and 2/3 the price with an extra gig on the cap.

hmmm

Second class offering from a second class company to consumers who are delighted it isn't the third class product they're currently offered.

Wonderful.

PiE

60euro per month

It's not even half the speed for half the price. It's half the speed for more than half the price.

Esat are bigger cons that Eircom. I say we should give them as much grief as we give Eircom. So far Esat have been given some leeway, but they're getting very comfy in their little 2 man cartel.

[Edit]
Just checked for availability. I was on Eircom's last DSL trial in Dublin, worked fine. I would imagine the area around O' Connell St and Henry St. would be quite high priority for anyone hoping to sell DSL. And yet, Esat's DSL is 'currently not available in your area.'

Nice cartel indeed.
[/Edit]

hunkypex

From chorus cablenet:

• Unlimited sufing for a fixed monthly fee of just €50
• Flat Rate Internet Access - no additional usage charges or download limits

Its 512 down 128 up. If i read it right cablenet is unlimited while esats dsl is limited like theres no tommorow. So it appears to me that it is possible to get good broadband in Ireland.

kamobe

Chorus is quite limited to a small number of people, seems to be the trend these days....

Re the cap; Arseholes

parasite

everyone should boycott this and move away from their image of the irish consumer who'd put up with anything .. :mad:
they could at leat give you unlimited capacity between 1am and 8am or something, anything ...
blehhh
depressing ..

XbLaDe

Just checked my eligibilty and I was declined ( im near one of the waterford exchanges ) ...... yet when I entered the other number we have in the house it was accepted.

Must be out of the 2.5 K range because I had to walk up the stairs

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by hunkypex
From chorus cablenet:

• Unlimited sufing for a fixed monthly fee of just €50
• Flat Rate Internet Access - no additional usage charges or download limits

Its 512 down 128 up. If i read it right cablenet is unlimited while esats dsl is limited like theres no tommorow. So it appears to me that it is possible to get good broadband in Ireland.

Pure Vapourware, it's available in Thurles and Clonmel after getting on the phone with Chorus a few weeks ago doesn't look like it's going to be available anywhere else anytime soon.

LoGiE

This is utterly ridiculous. This makes my blood boil. How does our government let Eircom and Esat get away with offering these substandard products?

I think Ireland Off-line are doing a great job talking to government officials etc. but it seems to me they just aren’t listening or are unwilling to take action because it might mean ruffling a few feathers. The situation is just getting worse in my opinion.

The telco’s can upgrade as many exchanges as they like, Minister Ahern can make all the promises/directives he likes but it’s no good whatsoever to the people of Ireland because it’s outrageously expensive.

I think perhaps its time to do a little marching with placards to the Dail, Eircom, wherever in protest (Please no mention of the blackout that was quite some time ago folks). The students have done it, the taxi men have done the Farmers have done it, the lorry drivers have done it and these groups have all got huge exposure in the papers. Is this problem not just as urgent?

Irelandoffline can no longer afford being dependant on word of mouth, mentions from articles tucked away in the business/IT sections of the paper or people who stumble across the IOFFL website while on line, In my opinion its just not enough anymore.

OHP

Originally posted by LoGiE

I think perhaps its time to do a little marching with placards to the Dail, Eircom, wherever in protest (Please no mention of the blackout that was quite some time ago folks). The students have done it, the taxi men have done the Farmers have done it, the lorry drivers have done it and these groups have all got huge exposure in the papers. Is this problem not just as urgent?

Irelandoffline can no longer afford being dependant on word of mouth, mentions from articles tucked away in the business/IT sections of the paper or people who stumble across the IOFFL website while on line, In my opinion its just not enough anymore.

IrelandOffline can no longer afford being dependant on word of mouth, mentions from articles tucked away in the business/IT sections of the paper or people who stumble across the IOFFL website while on line, In my opinion its just not enough anymore. [/B][/QUOTE]
Ok while I agree the Blackout was somewhat of a disappointment. It actually did work. The few people that did turn out for it made a huge difference. They paved the way for the rest of us layabouts. It’s also my understanding that IOFFL are working a lot more in the background than will ever be published or made public here. IOFFL cannot afford anything they are a non funded Voluntary organisation. So just give them a chance. You should know by now as far as Eircon are concerned "Overnight" means 5 years or more. IOFFL are not promising anything but they are still getting the job done. So instead of whinging at them why not join them and make a difference?

OHP

SkepticOne

Originally posted by parasite
everyone should boycott this and move away from their image of the irish consumer who'd put up with anything .. :mad:

I can't see many people going for it in any case. 60 euros is still far too expensive for most people. Cap is pretty irrelevant at those prices.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Pure Vapourware, it's available in Thurles and Clonmel after getting on the phone with Chorus a few weeks ago doesn't look like it's going to be available anywhere else anytime soon.

Non-capped broadband is available in Thurles, Kilkenny, Clonmel from Chorus (to about 12,000 people), Parts of Dublin 24 and 6W from NTL (to about 25,000 people) and IBB in South Dublin.

LoGiE

Originally posted by OHP
IOFFL cannot afford anything they are a non funded voluntary organisation. So just give them a chance. You should know by now as far as Eircon are concerned "Overnight" means 5 years or more. IOFFL are not promising anything but they are still getting the job done. So instead of whinging at them why not join them and make a difference?

OHP [/B]

Whinging? Your saying I should just relax and not become agitated when ludicrous substandard products like the above are made available? Products that Esat believe we should be grateful for....

You seem to think this is an attack on IOFFL which it is not. As I also mentioned I think the committee are doing great work. I'm aware that it's a non profit and works on a voluntary basis (Although I'm not sure why you mentioned that), but perhaps that is why it's not such a crazy idea that some of it's members of IOFFL might be willing to volunteer an hour or two to make a public protest eh? Who said the background work has to stop? I didn't. I've no need to give IOFFL a "Chance" as I fully support anything the group agrees on in order to achieve IOFFL's goals. Greater public awareness is good thing remember.

Ste-

i agree with logie

/thumbs up

Hannibal_12

Is there any hope for this small country when small minded, greedy people are running it.
Its not even available in my area and to be honest, while I'm still here, I have given up hope for getting broadband (real broadband, that is).
Why is it so utterly inconceivable that we "Oirish" have a product which is competitive with all other european countries and even some former Soviet block countries, for christ sake.
Is Eircom's/Esat stranglehold so tight that we are just pissing in the wind hoping anything radical can be done about them. Its now almost a complete joke.
I was in a country not two months ago with a population less than that of Dublin and one seventh the size of Ireland (in land area) and it offers 640kbps dsl for €20 a month http://www.cytanet.com.cy/services/connectivity.html.

Whats wrong here????? I thought this was the sewerage umm sorry silicon valley of Europe.

By the way
Eircom Tribunal have posted a response to Dr Nolan's plea for mercy i.e "Back Off" its worth reading and brilliant as usual.

Tellox

I'll keep it short, and to the point.

FOR
F*CK
SAKE

theciscokid

underpowered and overpriced,

4 gb?

so if i wanna buy something online and have to download it (i.e after my proposed allocation )

i have to pay additional charges to esat ~ F**K YOU

i am able to recieve this service but wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, and will tell every single god damned person i know, and will email every god damned internet user i know to stay well clear..

and is there a yearly contract, i bet they tried to slip that one in too

i know you irish esat reps can't do anything not that you would, you take your orders and price from overseas,

i'd say people are disappointed with this,

ur asking €60 a month for 256k down / 128 up ~ 4gb cap


i'll happily wait for www.irishbroadband.ie thank you very much

and at €50 a month for 512k down / 512k up ~ NO cap

roll on the other masts thats what i say

rymus

*vomits with disgust*

now it seems that UTV really is our only hope...


g'wan the e-hub :mad:

MDR

Ladies and Germs,

we are gonna need a letter campaign to the Minister on this one,
me thinks, don't get mad, lets get even.

Ths minister is giving them €9 million of the €25 million they are using for their Broadband rollout, and they a flagarentily ignoring the FLAT-RATE sentiments expressed in his recent speechs, press releases and proposals.

Lets let him know of our displeasure ... draft letters need please !

MarkR

How about a nice letter campaign like as done with the sellafield protest. All the postcards were sent at once so they would arrive on tony's doorstep at the same time. A nice big lorry load of mail should do. Maybe two to be safe.

JohnK

I was planning to get this but with a cap they can forget it!:mad: There is no way in hell I'm paying money to some company for the "privilage" of a download cap. I'm definatly on for writing a leter(s) to somebody about this but I'm not good at expressing meself. If somebody wants to put up a general outline of a letter I'll definatly be sending some out.

eth0_

Can't you people read legalese?
"*Esat BT reserves the right to charge 3c inc. VAT per MB for material downloaded over and above the stated monthly allowance"

That means it'll probably end up like eircoms 'cap' where no one has been charged for going over cap yet.

Also, READ THE PAPERS. Aren't the government promising to force ISP's to drive down prices in 03??

Tazz T

I would've taken this product - then I seen the cap.

'eircom did it, so can we' - is that it, Esat? Follow the leader?

You can stick it.

carlos

i would have considered this also... but with a cap its really a non runner

seems to me that ESAT have lost themselves a lot of business by introducing this cap

eth0_

Originally posted by Tazz T
I would've taken this product - then I seen the cap.

'eircom did it, so can we' - is that it, Esat? Follow the leader?

You can stick it.

Here's a novel idea, Tazz!! Why don't you TELL ESAT instead of moaning inconsequentially on here.

Tazz T

Of course I will. I was making a generalisation.

Anyway I'm sure the nice marketing ppl at esat are reading every posting here.

eth0_

ya think?

Supercell

Cannot believe my eyes , as an existing Eircom adsl subscriber I had made up my mind to go back to Esat and forgive and forget the SNL fiasco once my years tenureship is up...however..frankly ESAT can shove this offer where the sun doesnt shine..looks like Eircom gets to keep my business afterall

Mountjoy Mugger

FFS, their database is even older than eircom's. I've got DSL for over a year - and I got the thumbs up from one of Esat's resellers only to be told on the website that DSL isn't available in my area as yet, and I should consider Netsmart - very professional, twits!

I'm dying to hear what Eth_0 has got to say when she justifies them....

Mr E

I just used the contact form on their site to point out this thread to them. Lets see if anything comes of it (I'm not holding my breath, though....)

I was another prospective customer that they've now lost....

- Dave.

eth0_

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger

I'm dying to hear what Eth_0 has got to say when she justifies them....

I aint justifying anything. I just think it's a waste of time moaning here. Moan to the source of the problem.

Mountjoy Mugger

Originally posted by eth0_
I aint justifying anything. I just think it's a waste of time moaning here. Moan to the source of the problem.

Moan to Esat? What's the point - just boycott them..

EDIT: I do hope that you're not implying that the source of the problem is Eircom or someone else - this is purely Esat and their concept of competition.

patrickmooney

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger
FFS, their database is even older than eircom's. I've got DSL for over a year - and I got the thumbs up from one of Esat's resellers only to be told on the website that DSL isn't available in my area as yet, and I should consider Netsmart - very professional, twits!

Which Esat BT DSL service did you get the thumbs up for? There are two, residential and corp. Only 12 out of all available Esat BT exchanges are open for the residential service as I type. So you may be able to use i-stream and Esat BT Corp DSL, but your exchange isn't residential DSL compatible yet. If in doubt, ring them.

Tellox

The letter campaign sounds great, dont go down without a fight ect ect.. give us a printoff/send us the postcards, and give us the return address..

De Rebel

Further proof that ESAT and Eircom are a duopoly/cartel and that market forces, competition and all that b0llix aren’t worth a sh1t in this tiny little market.

Before they announced the cap this was a crap product anyway. In price/performance terms it’s identical to Eircom’s offering - the most expensive in the OECD and the EU.

Only political action is going to achieve change. IOFFL's efforts in 2003 should be singularly directed to lobbying for political action.

zynaps

What confuses me is that they received €9 million in the first place, to supposedly participate in the broadband "rollout".

Why have they been given a bloody big amount of money by the government, only to come out with something basically the same as eircom's dsl, only with 50% of the speed and around 55% of the price?

Perhaps the government should be looking for companies they believe will attempt to actually further the broadband situation, as IBB have been (on an albeit very small scale so far) doing.

Granted, an arbitrary sum of money doesn't necessarily transform the company into something that can handle hundreds of thousands of customers, but it's surely more deserved by someone like them than someone like esat, in the light of this latest offering.

I'd certainly rather see our money (because it is our money really) go to people trying to push the envelope here, than big corporations trying to merely maximise profit by staying .01 steps ahead of eircom.

Perhaps IBB are merely offering their service because it is so EASY to compete with this crap. Time will tell.

zynaps

eth0_

Originally posted by De Rebel

Only political action is going to achieve change. IOFFL's efforts in 2003 should be singularly directed to lobbying for political action.

FFS, next you'll be suggesting everyone firebombs Esat HQ!!! Are you this uninformed??? The goverment ARE aware of the very high prices charged and promised to force prices down in 03.

Dustaz

Dont know what to think about this one. Esat have blathered on endlessly about flat rate and then they restrict thier own service with a pitiful cap.

I agree with eth0 that this does look like a similar thing to the eircom cap. In fact it seems to me that its more or less there to support any 'spirit of the service' action they might take in the future. Being honest i dont really have a problem with that. If someone wants to download 30 gigs a month fine but i sure as hell am not going to subsidise them.

Having said that the 4gb figure is clearly still utter **** and unworkable in light of todays internet.

Dustaz

Originally posted by De Rebel

In price/performance terms it’s identical to Eircom’s

No its not.

Both Esats 512 and 256 offerings are significantly different to eircoms in performance and specs.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by eth0_
FFS, next you'll be suggesting everyone firebombs Esat HQ!!! Are you this uninformed??? The goverment ARE aware of the very high prices charged and promised to force prices down in 03.

I agree with De Rebel. Of course the government are aware of the situation, but despite the fibre rings, directive to comreg, etc., it is still fairly low down on their priorities. The problem is not that ESAT have brought out a rubbish product, but rather that there are no alternatives from other companies being offered. There is now effectively a duopoly on broadband in Ireland and such situations never lead to decent products being made available.

I don't think it is enough, though, to just nag the government to "do something". You must suggest concrete measures that will actually solve the problem. One such measure would be the lowering of the bizarre bitstream wholesale rate. This would allow companies like UTV to provide DSL services here like they do in the North.

De Rebel

Originally posted by eth0_
FFS, next you'll be suggesting everyone firebombs Esat HQ!!! Are you this uninformed??? The goverment ARE aware of the very high prices charged and promised to force prices down in 03.

Etho

I don't understand what your point is and frankly I find your post rather stupid.

I have never suggested firebombing anything. Nor would I.
I am not sure why you consider me uninformed. Please expand.
I did not propose that we attempt to inform the Minister. I am aware that the minister is aware of the problem and that the minister has promised to act. I suggested that we lobby for change. Political promises are cheap, IOFFL needs to redouble its efforts and ensure that the promises are followed up.

zynaps

eth0_'s posts seem to consist of berating responses to posts made by other people (including me).
Generally in a mocking tone. Boring

zynaps

MDR

Lets get off eth0_ case, he has valid point of view and is making it without malice. Its ESAT you are mad at not him, ESAT may or may not impose this cap, what galls me is that have left the option open.

eth0_

I'm a she!
I just think it's completely lame to react to this by starting a thread to bitch about the new Esat product.
Stop being all talk and maybe DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE?

MarkR

what galls me is that have left the option open

Bit sinister all right.

De Rebel

Originally posted by Dusty Claus
Both Esats 512 and 256 offerings are significantly different to eircoms in performance and specs.

I beg to differ.

From a price performance perspective the Eircom & ESAT's entry point offerings are the same.

Connection charges : pretty much the same
CAP : pretty much the same
Upload speed: identical
Price: Eircom - €109 for 512K = 54.50 for 256K, ESAT 59.90 for 256K (calculating a price performance measure is standard practice when comparing products)

TweedleDumb and TweedleDumber. Or in my original phrase -effectively a duopoly/Cartel.

Any differences are superficial. I wholeheartedly endorse Skeptic's point - Cheap bitstream is the only way we will ever see true competition in the Irish market place.

Regarding the capI agree entirely with your point that a CAP is a fair idea to preserve Quality of Service. It is the level at which it is set that I disagree with. Some weeks ago you proposed 15GB/month as reasonable. I would endorse this and in fact it appears to be something of a norm/mid-point among mainstream international offerings.

MDR

eth0_

my apologies ... sometimes gender escapes me on the boards.

perhaps since we are all agreed that we need to expend our energy more constructively, you would be willing to pen a draft letter to the Minister yourself ?

De Rebel

Originally posted by eth0_
I just think it's completely lame to react to this by starting a thread to bitch about the new Esat product.
Stop being all talk and maybe DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE?

I take it from this and your failure to respond to my previous post that you ungraciously concur with me that your 15.36 post was stupid.

I do not believe in vapid rants. The discussion that goes on here is useful and constructive. IOFFL lobbying for change is useful and constructive. Writing letters to Esat may be useful and may even be constructive and if you believe that this is the case I would encourage you to do it. I have my doubts and will therefore save on the postage.

Tazz T

Originally posted by MDR
Lets get off eth0_ case, he has valid point of view and is making it without malice. Its ESAT you are mad at not him, ESAT may or may not impose this cap, what galls me is that have left the option open.

Absolutely. We are all peed off with what Esat has done. Lets not take it out on each other.

eth0_

Originally posted by MDR
eth0_

my apologies ... sometimes gender escapes me on the boards.

perhaps since we are all agreed that we need to expend our energy more constructively, you would be willing to pen a draft letter to the Minister yourself ?

heh I wasn't getting at you for calling me a guy MDR
I don't think it's exactly my place to be drafting letters to ministers, as I am not affiliated with IOFFL. It would also be a bit late for me as I have already ordered DSL from Esat.

And as for de rebel....I didn't reply to your rant because it's a pointless waste of my time and also your lobbying time. The firebombing thing I mentioned was obviouly sarcasm and if you couldn't pick up on that then....

MDR

as I am not affiliated with IOFFL

I just presumed because you were posting to IOFFL boards you were a member ... silly me ...