Licence Fee to increase but with conditions

Elmo

The government are ready to up the licence fee for RTE but part of the money will go to independent broadcasters for there PBS output.

(TV3's popcorn as already been alocated 1%)

But then the question remains what is PBS is PBS the News, Current Affair and Documentries. Or is it Drama.

icdg

Don't think this is a very good idea (the licence fee going to BCI stations, not the increase itself). It will not increase the quality of these stations' programming, rather it will be used to cross subsidise commercial activities.

Will FM104 claim the licence fee for the Adrian Kennedy Phone Show, for example? That would to me be a gross abuse of the money. Maybe INN could claim the money on behalf of the ILRs, it is really (in Dublin at any rate) the only serious PSB they do. Who will adjuticate on licence fee awards. The BCI/BAI?

We'll have to see what the government's decision is when its announced offically. For now, all I've seen is the headline on today's Indo.

Presumably new primary legislation will be needed. Will we have the proposed repeal of the Broadcasting Authority Acts, the replacement of RTE and the BCI by a Broadcasting Authority of Ireland and an RTE Corporation (regulated by the BAI and operating under a specific Charter). Time will tell, I suppose.

DMC

Hmmm, I'm a bit skeptical too. And it is from the Indo too....

watty

The idea of funding NOT JUST RTE PBS is an interesting one. Create some competition to produce programs to a standard rather than a target Advertizeres figures?

Like manys a thing in Ireland the Devil is in the detail. Who decides who gets what for what? You certianly shouldn't simply give a handout to the station(s). Perhaps independant non-station program makers should get it to be "subsidized" to compete with the cheap (culturally imperialistic) imports. But again who decides? Checkov in Irish (or even Yeats in English) shouldn't automatically get it.

Well it appears that the private lobby group has won then.
Actually afaik TV3's last set of accounts showed a loss .Maybe the governmaent are worried about that.

Obviously something must be put in place to audit what is PBS.

Giving license money to FM104 for Arian Kennedy would be heracy.
mm

dmeehan

one of the "improvements":rolleyes: mentioned by rte is the extension of fair city to four nites a week

surely we should be paying them to keep it off the air:D

icdg

And this just in from RTE NEWS:

Minister announces TV licence reform

---

(17:12) Communications Minister Dermot Ahern has announced a fundamental reform of the TV licence and funding for public sector broadcasting generally.

Under the changes the TV licence is to rise by €43, 7 of which will be earmarked for a special fund for public sector broadcasting from which all free to air broadcasters including RTE can draw.

This fund is to be administered by the new Broadcasting Authority of Ireland which will oversee both public sector and commercial broadcasters.

RTE will also be allowed to seek annual increases in line with the rise in the Consumer Price Index.

The broadcaster has also agreed a range of improvements in programming including a special investigative unit and the expansion of Fair City to four nights weekly.

---

Good to see the TV Licence finally being tied to the CPI. And only EUR 7 is going to the BCI. And the new Broadcasting Authority is being established, that means (oh no) new primary legislation...

I noticed the Chairman of the RTÉ authority on six one this evening lauding the fact that they will have more financial accountability with their €43 rise.

But aparently they are being forced by E.U law to do this any way, so it's a bit rich of them saying it's their idea.
The following is taken from a letter to the Editor of the Irish Independent on the 26th November 2002 from David McMunn,Director of government, legal and regulatory affairs TV3, the following is interesting stuff.

It may interest your readers that much vaunted increased transperency and accountability is little more than RTÉ acting in accordance with it's legal obligations under the directive on transparency in public sector funded organisations ( Directive 2000/52/ED ) which under law should have been in place in july 2001

He went on to say:

Does this new transparency mean that the public will finally and explicitly be toldwhat has happened to the circa €165,000,000 gift RTÉ received through the sale of cablelink

And I can hear the cat going meeeee...owwww , with his last paragraph:D

It is somewhat bemusing,to realise that RTÉ implies that it should be awarded handsomely with the privelege of state funding for merely obeying laws, albeit aparently somewhat tardily.

mm

mike65

I saw Dermot Ahern on TV3 News getting a light roasting from the newscaster, (the tubby fella) who wanted to know if the money would be squandered by RTE in bidding wars (with TV3 of course!) for US/UK imports. Ahern wondered about TV3s commitment to home produced programmes!

A draw then...

Mike.

icdg

There's more - this from the Department for everything - sorry, I mean the DCMNR -


Press Release

---

Dermot Ahern Announces Fundamental Reform of Public Sector Broadcasting

Government Approves ¬43 TV Licence Fee Increase
Dublin, Wednesday, 11 December 2002.
Dermot Ahern TD, Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, today announced a new framework for public service broadcasting with fundamental reform of policy and regulation.

The Minister said the Government has approved major legislative changes in the broadcasting sector, along with the establishment of a new Content Regulator for both public and private broadcasters.

Under the changes announced today, the Government has approved a ¬43 increase in the television licence fee.

The new annual licence fee with effect from January 1st next will be ¬150. The old black and white licence is to be abolished. An Post, charged with collecting the licence fee, will introduce a direct debit payment system to allow householders spread their fee payment over 12 months in line with payments to other businesses and organisations.

RTE will be able to seek annual increases up to the level of the Consumer Price Index but any future increases will be conditional on achieving agreed change management programmes and broadcast commitments. The new Content Regulator would have to be satisfied that any licence fee increase request was justified before passing it to the Minister for approval. There will also be a five year review of the licence fee.

RTE is in the process of delivering significant change. It knows further change is on the way and it has to be more cost effective and financially accountable in how it delivers its remit.

RTE is in a very competitive market place. In an age of increasing globalisation, not least in the message we get on our television screens, I believe the uniquely Irish voice of the station and its reflection and commentary on the life of the nation should be preserved and nurtured.

The reforms agreed by Government will require legislative change and I am making it my priority to bring forward those changes as quickly as possible. I am satisfied that

this decision sets the framework for far reaching changes in broadcasting and is a real commitment by Government to public sector broadcasting.

Five percent of the net proceeds from the new fee (¬7approx) is to be ring fenced as a special broadcasting fund for new, additional, innovative content, from which all free-to-air broadcasters (independent broadcasters licensed by the BCI and RTE, with special emphasis given to locally based community broadcasters), can draw. This fund is expected to amount to approximately ¬8 million annually.

The new fund is aimed at creating additional innovative public service programming beyond that which is already required of broadcasters and will also be available to support digital archiving.

The fund will be administered by the Single Content Regulator, to be known as the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI). The BAI will cover independent and public broadcasters as recommended by the report of the Broadcasting Forum. The Regulator will perform the functions of the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland in the case of independent broadcasters and take on the existing regulatory role of the RTE Authority.

RTE is to become a commercial State company with its own board of 12 directors.

The Minister is also to bring forward proposals for the introduction of a new commercial TV licence for licensed premises.

The Minister said that RTE has been mandated by Government to provide additional indigenous output in Public Service Broadcasting an increase in peak time home produced drama on RTE 1, an increase in Irish language and bilingual programming, an increase in news and current affairs programming, amongst others.

RTE is to provide a Statement of Commitment, specifying programmes planned, by the end of the year. (see appendix)

Clearly, this is an issue that has to be addressed. The Government today accepted the ¬43 figure against the backdrop that of all public service broadcasters in the EU, RTE has up to now the greatest dependency on commercial revenues (64%) for its operations. The new fee increase will reduce this dependency leaving RTE joint highest for commercial revenue dependency with Italy, the Minister said.

Minister Ahern said: If we want responsible public service broadcasting we will have to pay for it. I believe the decision today strikes a balance between establishing public service broadcasting on a firmer footing and introducing a content regime which will ensure the taxpayer receives value for their investment

ENDS

Victor

Part of the PBS requirement is to carry government and political messages (party political broadcasts). Hmmm, is this the government paying for political advertising?

DMC

€7. Well, there are PSB things that local radio can only do. Local things for local people. (and not "The death has occured of...." :rolleyes:)So, really, in effect, nowt to TV3. I'm happy with that.

I'm not too happy with the demise of RTÉ's Authority. The BBC sucessfully haggled their way out of the reach of OFCOM, I'm disappointed that RTÉ and the private sector are under the one umbrella. One thing that is good that will come out of the new BAI, is the ability to trace what is produced with the licence fee, and whats not.

DMC

And now for TV3's official words of wisdom....

TV3 Disappointed by Behind Closed Door Decision on Licence Fee Rise and Without Defined Links to Programme Output


TV3 have expressed great disappointment at the manner in which the massive 40% hike in the Licence Fee has apparently been determined. TV3 is concerned that the apparently unregulated injection of funds into RTE calls into question the viability of independent TV broadcasting in the state. State aid alone to RTE now exceeds the total TV advertising spend in the market, yet RTE also takes in excess of more than 50% of that ad spend, in addition to its state aid.

"We are very concerned at the 40% Licence Fee increase announced today,” said James Morris, the Chairman and Founder of TV3. "This increase has been given without proper public consultation. The Forum on Broadcasting was specifically told not to deal with the adequacy of RTE and TG4 funding and thus interested parties were not encouraged to make representations on the issue. There is talk of some form of control over RTE's use of the Licence Fee but it is very aspirational in detail and reforms will not be fully implemented until 2006. This is completely unacceptable. The public has been promised reform at RTE for the last decade along with increased transparency and accountability, and it has not occurred. We urgently need clarification on the details of the proposed controls. The way matters currently stand will seriously discourage any new investment in TV broadcasting in Ireland as a consequence of the enormity of RTE’s newly enhanced market dominance.

Given that the specific requirements on RTE are not set out at this time, this raises concerns as to the substance of the new regulation of RTE and TG4. Would it not be logical for RTE to set out its intent publicly, and then fund it appropriately? TV3 had hoped for evidence of the promised changes in the manner RTE and TG4 would be allowed access to public funds, before an amount was set. The proposed organizational changes in the “change management objectives” section are woefully inadequate and presented in minimal detail.

Hopefully the actions behind today’s announcement are not an indication that there will be no effective change from the past dismal record of RTE’s accountability.”

The private broadcast sector, including TV3, has as a minimum called for:

1. The immediate establishment of the BAI to supervise RTE's activities before any funds are dispensed. This Regulator should have clear and specific terms of reference to ensure the proper use of the state funding.

2. RTE should commit the totality of the Licence Fee funds to Irish programming and not the mere 2/3 recently suggested by RTE (after allowing for support to the RTE orchestra or similar obligations). The Minister has not clarified the exact requirements and should do so immediately. RTE should also commit a portion of its commercial revenue to Irish made programming, as is the requirement for the independent sector.

3. RTE must be required to set out, at once, on a per channel basis, its commitment to Irish made programming for all of RTE's TV and radio stations, as is the case for the independent sector.

TV3 believes that the Minister must promptly clarify the controls to be put on RTE and TG4 on the use of existing and future funding before any changes are made to that funding. It is seen as a matter of urgency that there also be a proper public consultation on the adequacy of the Licence Fee and controls thereof, before any increases are implemented.

Theres merit in some of what TV3 are saying.
RTÉ are effectively supposed to be the prime provider of PBS as paid for by the license, while TV3 provide only that which is mandated under their licence.

Really and truly, an outfit like TV3 are only operating in a small economy like Ireland by the skin of their teeth, given that up untill now , the only sources of income they had was advertising and injections from shareholders who expect a return.

Continious loss making by TV3 would ensure their eventual close down, and to their mind if RTÉ buy all the best foreign programmes,with a large crutch at the auctions from the license fee, then TV3 are fécked.
Whilst on the other hand RTÉ as a publicly owned oufit and competing for the same advertising market can lose lot's of money.

*warning interesting experiment proposal-close eyes*
Take away RTÉ'S license altogether for a year and ask them to opperate under the same conditions as TV3 for the year.

Eliminate all but the basic PBS from RTÉ ie: let their output down to TV3's level, by moving it to TG4 for the year.
Then see how the programming compares between the two, I'd lay a bet that most of the good U.S stuff would be on TV3.
mind you, most of the viewers would be over on TG4:D
mm

Victor

TV3s comments may be all well and good, but fail to acknowledge there connections in the UK market, that RTE don't have.

jez

I believe the Licence fee is just another well timed (i.e. pre Xmas,
when no one gets too excited) price increase , like the budget,car tax etc....

We,the Irish public are being totally screwed at the moment and there is not one iota of press coverage criticising these increases.
The theme seems to be , they are earning enough, let them pay for it.

In reality we all know that that is not the case. We have all been conned.

As I calm down, in relation to the MASSIVE licence increase, the proof of the pudding will be in two or three years time,when we will know if we have an Irish TV service we watch more often than the competition (Sky/Beeb etc). At the moment that is not the case.

Making a big deal of Fair City being on four times a week year round is a joke..

I presume 6.01 will now be on for an hour all year round ???

RTE always assumed in the past there was no news in August...

DMC

Going OT here, but there is a very good reason why the news at 6.01 is cut to half an hour. There is a lack of news in August. Govt is on hols, so is half the country, no real business news... Why was the Soham girls disappearence latched onto big time? It was really the only news of the month. Its not called "the silly season" in the British press for nothing, ya know.

Tazz T

Jez is spot on. I can't believe that no one seems to think that a 40% hike in the licence is unjustified. Nothing will change - jprogramming won't get better, the service won't get better - we'll just pay €43 more to watch telly.

Does this mean that it's OK for them to raise the licence fee by 40% every year?

DMC

No, the €40 is a one-off. The licence is going to be reviewed in line with the CPI from now on, like the BBC's.

And no-one here is arguing that €40 is not a lot of money. It is. But if you believe that we are going to get a more robust, cost efficient and more accountable national broadcaster, with more home produced programming, I, for one, don't mind. Those guarantees are there, and as said by the minister yesterday.

Tazz T

Well, we'll see. My guess iis nothing will change.

I'll go out and buy a new licence this weekend before it goes up.

Cork

Originally posted by Tazz T
Jez is spot on. I can't believe that no one seems to think that a 40% hike in the licence is unjustified. Nothing will change - jprogramming won't get better, the service won't get better - we'll just pay €43 more to watch telly.

The Licence fee is a subsidy to RTE.

RTE is a commerical station.

Network 2 is riddled with repeats of US shows.
2fm is a disgrace. What service does it provide?
RTE radio is poor.
Overall - the TV licence needs to be abolished.

DMC

Here we go..... more one-liners from Cork...

No, The licence fee is a form of income for RTÉ, along with advertising. RTÉ are not like farmers.

RTÉ is a statutory corporation, not a commercial station.

Yes, Network 2 has loads of US programmes in prime-time, but the Minister on 5-7 Live stated that RTÉ have agreed that more home produced programmes will be produced in the evenings on Network 2.

2fm is the national popular music station of RTÉ, whose profitable income supplements the rest of RTÉ Radio, like Lyric FM, and that's obviously.

I think Radio 1 is excellent, and I'd listen to it all the day through. Missing RTÉ Radio Cork, Cork? **** it, you are saying "boo hiss" to it all, but the listening figures don't agree with you. Your personal opinion doesn't carry much weight!

Fine, off it goes, and then all our evening viewing will be foreign programmes. I don't want that, the vast majority of our population doesn't want that, it would be cultural suicide. So we have to pay for it, and that's why we have the licence fee. And this increase should strengthen RTÉ and give us a decent, well funded TV and Radio service.

God, I hate begrudgers....

Elmo

. The Minister has not clarified the exact requirements and should do so immediately. RTE should also commit a portion of its commercial revenue to Irish made programming, as is the requirement for the independent sector.

The independent sector commits only a small portion of their commercial revenue to irish made programming(that is TV not Radio). I don't that independent radio stations would get away with what TV3 do on their TV Station i.e. American progammes and 50% present Euro.. sorry I mean Brit... sorry I mean Granada Programming.

Making a big deal of Fair City being on four times a week year round is a joke..

Like the News the output of Fair City is reduce during the summer months starting in may it goes out 3 nights a week june 2 nights and july and aug 1 night a week.

Take away RTÉ'S license altogether for a year and ask them to opperate under the same conditions as TV3 for the year.

Eliminate all but the basic PBS from RTÉ ie: let their output down to TV3's level, by moving it to TG4 for the year.
Then see how the programming compares between the two, I'd lay a bet that most of the good U.S stuff would be on TV3.
mind you, most of the viewers would be over on TG4.

I am suprise that not more people watch TG4 its much better then any of the other three in the first place. Would most of the good stuff be on TV3 I mean these are the people who buy riples beleive it or not and americans most..... and LAPD Nights.

As I calm down, in relation to the MASSIVE licence increase, the proof of the pudding will be in two or three years time,when we will know if we have an Irish TV service we watch more often than the competition (Sky/Beeb etc). At the moment that is not the case.

Actually RTE One, N2, TV3 and TG4 get 51% of the total viewership in Ireland. While 29% is divided between the basic package(the 11 brit chans on) NTL (Who have also a price increase on the way), 20% is divided between the newer digital channels. TG4 is the only Irish TV station to see an increase from 2.3% to 2.5%, the is the same amount of viewers Sky One gets. (Source www.tg4.ie).

My question to TV3 is what did they want to do with a commercial TV station did they aspire to what they have now?

Originally posted by DMC
Here we go..... more one-liners from Cork...

No, The licence fee is a form of income for RTÉ, along with advertising. RTÉ are not like farmers.

RTÉ is a statutory corporation, not a commercial station.

Yes, Network 2 has loads of US programmes in prime-time, but the Minister on 5-7 Live stated that RTÉ have agreed that more home produced programmes will be produced in the evenings on Network 2.

2fm is the national popular music station of RTÉ, whose profitable income supplements the rest of RTÉ Radio, like Lyric FM, and that's obviously.

I think Radio 1 is excellent, and I'd listen to it all the day through. Missing RTÉ Radio Cork, Cork? **** it, you are saying "boo hiss" to it all, but the listening figures don't agree with you. Your personal opinion doesn't carry much weight!

Fine, off it goes, and then all our evening viewing will be foreign programmes. I don't want that, the vast majority of our population doesn't want that, it would be cultural suicide. So we have to pay for it, and that's why we have the licence fee. And this increase should strengthen RTÉ and give us a decent, well funded TV and Radio service.

God, I hate begrudgers....

I agree 100% with the above post.

mm

Originally posted by Elmo
I am suprise that not more people watch TG4 its much better then any of the other three in the first place. Would most of the good stuff be on TV3 I mean these are the people who buy riples beleive it or not and americans most..... and LAPD Nights.

They do that because they claim, they cannot afford to win a bidding war with RTÉ to get some of the better U.S shows that crowd N2's schedules and thats a fair point.

If RTÉ do become more transparent, I suspect every accounting trick in the book will be used to hide the percentage of license money that goes to fund the purchase of U.S shows.

mm

Victor

Originally posted by Man
If RTÉ do become more transparent, I suspect every accounting trick in the book will be used to hide the percentage of license money that goes to fund the purchase of U.S shows.

And I'm sure Granada, eh, sorry TV3 have their own accountants to do some tricks themselves.

Originally posted by Victor
And I'm sure Granada, eh, sorry TV3 have their own accountants to do some tricks themselves.

I'm sure they do,and I wouldn't normally class myself as a defender of TV3.
But I am deeply skeptical of RTÉ's promises regarding accountability.
I will believe it when I see it.
They are after all publicly owned unlike the privately owned TV3.

In the normal scheme of things,publically owned , tax payer funded bodies should be transparent and accountable.
In other words they should be seen to be giving value for our money.

TV3 on the other hand need only fulfill the terms of their license.
Unless there is a buy out or change of ownership, involved, it's financial affairs are an internal matter for it's shareholders.
mm

Elmo

If RTÉ do become more transparent, I suspect every accounting trick in the book will be used to hide the percentage of license money that goes to fund the purchase of U.S shows.

RTE don't buy in the American programming for TG4 and they have better shows. I am sure that TV3 could out bid TG4 for Oz, Curb Your Enthuism(sp) etc. (Less is better in regards buying films and tv?)

There are plenty of good TV shows that RTE don't buy or show which i am sure TV3 could buy. I mean no channel needs to show LAPD Nights. Also TV3 couldn't put alot of the show on, that N2 show, as they have to show Emmer and Coro which takes up a good amount of the schedule. (This is why the want another TV Channel).

If RTE did start to make more Irish TV would this not cause people to stop watching TV3 as more people like to watch Irish TV. TV3 have pointed out the success that RTE has had with the likes of Off the Rails, Ear To The Ground, True Lives, Prime Time, Fair City (Its a soap, they are all bad) etc.

Originally posted by Elmo
RTE don't buy in the American programming for TG4 and they have better shows. I am sure that TV3 could out bid TG4 for Oz, Curb Your Enthuism(sp) etc. (Less is better in regards buying films and tv?)

There are plenty of good TV shows that RTE don't buy or show which i am sure TV3 could buy. I mean no channel needs to show LAPD Nights. Also TV3 couldn't put alot of the show on, that N2 show, as they have to show Emmer and Coro which takes up a good amount of the schedule. (This is why the want another TV Channel).

If RTE did start to make more Irish TV would this not cause people to stop watching TV3 as more people like to watch Irish TV. TV3 have pointed out the success that RTE has had with the likes of Off the Rails, Ear To The Ground, True Lives, Prime Time, Fair City (Its a soap, they are all bad) etc.

Yes but I think TV3 would be more interested in The West wing, E.R and CSI, 24 and the like.
ie, popular U.S shows.
They wouldn't be long dropping some of the crap they show, to make way for them, but RTÉ buys them.
mm

Darby OGill

While I think that the licence fee increase is justified purely on inflation/costs grounds, I think it's depressing that RTE have already decided that the increase (in part) will be used to enable Fair City to be shown four nights a week. Who has made this decision and how is it justified?

Home-produced drama costs a lot of money, and it looks like On Home Ground is becoming another Glenroe (neither of which I can watch). Why cannot RTE simply make a three or six part series or whatever and leave it at that, instead of dragging things out past the point of embarrassment (Bracken, Leave it to Mrs. O'Brien, Extra, Extra etc. also fit in this category). Just because the ratings are good doesn't make it good TV (Irish people will watch any oul' ****e too!).

While I know people will never agree on what constitutes "quality", slavishly following the British soap formula is sad beyond belief. RTE should be investing the extra cash into new productions, be they good or bad. We know all about Fair City, please, no more. I would rather see a few decent one-hour once-off documentaries than more of this crap.

icdg

Man, try to keep political views off this forum please. Good mind to edit your post...

three

Originally posted by mike65
I saw Dermot Ahern on TV3 News getting a light roasting from the newscaster, (the tubby fella) who wanted to know if the money would be squandered by RTE in bidding wars (with TV3 of course!) for US/UK imports. Ahern wondered about TV3s commitment to home produced programmes!

A draw then...

Mike.

How can Dermot Ahearn use this an excuse for a licence increase. This was said on wednesday when TV3 home-produced programmes from 5.30pm-1.35am was 6 hours and 35 minutes
Meanwhile Net 2 from 5.30 - 1:30 was 1 hour 25 minutes.
And RTE1 between 5.30 and 1:35 was 4 hours.

So to finish off, TV3 had more home-made programmes than RTE1&2 put together that night.

:mad: Also, it's not fair to compare their homemade programmes with RTE as we PAY TV3 €0, WHILE WE PAY RTE TOO MUCH FOR NOTHING.

DMC

Hmm, I call shenanigans with that stat.

All that time was just Champions League and News.... and, get real, over 180 mins of that was foreign produced football. Only in-studio links and commentary were home produced, and NOT the entire output of that evening. Its not as if TV3 were the host broadcaster of a match, covering a Man Utd and Deportivo match from Manchester. Passing it off as a "home production" is ludicrous. Time to smell some roasted ground nuts in the morning!

Stats like that can be manipulated to prove anything, and in this case, they prove nothing.

Oh, and on Thursday with that figure...

RTÉ 1: 6hrs 10 mins
Network 2: 30 mins (live football and a film were on, News 2 is the only home programme there)
TV3: 2 hrs.
TG4: 4hrs 25 mins

:rolleyes: Next!

Elmo

Home-produced drama costs a lot of money, and it looks like On Home Ground is becoming another Glenroe (neither of which I can watch). Why cannot RTE simply make a three or six part series or whatever and leave it at that, instead of dragging things out past the point of embarrassment (Bracken, Leave it to Mrs. O'Brien, Extra, Extra etc. also fit in this category). Just because the ratings are good doesn't make it good TV (Irish people will watch any oul' ****e too!).

Very Irish Of you darby.

1. On Home Gound will be off the air next year hopefully as it gets less the 300,000 viewers each week and it is CRAP. Let it Go RTE
2. Bracken and Glenroe were popular because most people enjoyed them and the critics were usually very good to them, You have to remember that it was the 80's and really are the any good tv shows from the 80's Dallas, Knots Landing etc
3. Leave it to Mrs. O Brien, Extra Extra, Upwardly Mobile and The Cassidy were all terrible. Most of which were taken of the air as soon as we had seen them. Most of them only ran for six weeks.
4. On Home Ground is only a Ten part Series.
5. No, ratings don't mean that something is good but then ITV and BBC have not stopped making EastEnders, Emmerdale(Which is based on the Riordan's) and Coro St. (I don't Like Soap, there is too much of it.)
6. Irish people will watch any oul' ****e too! this is not the case with On Home Ground, they don't watch it. And they aint watching Ireland AM.

Elmo

How can Dermot Ahearn use this an excuse for a licence increase. This was said on wednesday when TV3 home-produced programmes from 5.30pm-1.35am was 6 hours and 35 minutes
Meanwhile Net 2 from 5.30 - 1:30 was 1 hour 25 minutes.
And RTE1 between 5.30 and 1:35 was 4 hours.

So to finish off, TV3 had more home-made programmes than RTE1&2 put together that night.

Also, it's not fair to compare their homemade programmes with RTE as we PAY TV3 €0, WHILE WE PAY RTE TOO MUCH FOR NOTHING.

Okay Three Three Three (In an Echo) Lets point out that most of TV3's Irish output comes in the form of News. I don't know if anyone else fells the same way about TV3 News but does the 5:30 resemble the 6:30 and 11 o'clock news. RTE produce The Den which if you add up all ten to fifteen minute slots it would add up. RTE one Has a nearly 100% Irish Programming in Prime Time TV. TV3 have 0% except for Champions league which I consider an import, and i will consider it an import when it returns to RTE.

Originally posted by icdg
Man, try to keep political views off this forum please. Good mind to edit your post...

Comments duly edited.
Rather than expand here, on why I posted them, I have sent you a p.m instead.
mm

Darby OGill

Elmo, can't agree with your version of events. While I can't back up my figures with proof, I suggest that Leave it to Mrs. O'Brien ran for at least three series, if not more (I even recall an on-air ad looking for scriptwriters at one stage!). Extra Extra ran for at least two, and I think Upwardly Mobile ran for two or three. The Cassidys did only last one, I think.

I can't understand your justification for Glenroe and Bracken. RTE made The Riordans from 196? to 1978. It then decided that this rural-based drama/soap should end. So the obvious thing to replace it? Another 20 years of rural-based drama, with even some of the same characters. Now that's progress, not to mention challenging TV production. So what if it was the 80's (and 90's!)?

On Home Ground is only a ten-part series? At 75,000 euro an hour, I believe, that's very expensive crap, don't you think? When is RTE going to spend 750,000 on nature documentaries, science fiction, arts, a travel show, coverage of a lesser sport, a legal drama or whatever you're having yourself? Never. (I am not a fan of all of these by the way! ).

As I said before, I am in favour of the fee increase- but more Fair City suggests to me that RTE is not going to send shockwaves through the TV world, no matter how much money it gets.

Not sure what you mean by your opening comment.

Elmo

I did not realise that Leave It to Mrs. O Brien ran for 3 Season, thankfully i am too young to remember that. Upwardly Mobile was a family show and was good for that, I wasn't a fan but it was better than The Cassidy's.

I can't understand your justification for Glenroe and Bracken. RTE made The Riordans from 196? to 1978. It then decided that this rural-based drama/soap should end. So the obvious thing to replace it? Another 20 years of rural-based drama, with even some of the same characters. Now that's progress, not to mention challenging TV production. So what if it was the 80's (and 90's!)?

Emmerdale has run for the last 30 years on ITV what is their justification for it, oh and its based on the Riordan's. (Suprisingly Emmerdale has some of the same characters even though many are written out with an explosion of some kind.)

As for progress the Riordan's used outdoor cameras for many of it sceans, these cameras were mainly used for sporting events at the time. RTE actually pioneered this transformation in TV.

My Justification for Bracken and Glenroe is that at the time they both han many critics and fans at the time, and its not just because the irish watch anything.

On Home Ground is only a ten-part series? At 75,000 euro an hour, I believe, that's very expensive crap, don't you think? When is RTE going to spend 750,000 on nature documentaries, science fiction, arts, a travel show, coverage of a lesser sport, a legal drama or whatever you're having yourself? Never. (I am not a fan of all of these by the way! ).

No while On Home Ground has a bad script many of it actors are very good and the camera work is exclent, but yes it is bland and just plain boring. RTE are doing well only spending €75,000 on it when you think about how much money is invested into british and american TV.

RTE have a travel show called No Frontiers and its quite good.
Coverage of a lesser sport, they are going to broadcast the 2003 Special Olympics.
I don't think a Sci Fi drama would go down too well actually you probably give out about this if it did happen.
I enjoy Batchelor's Walk, which by the way was drop by the BBC.
Arts programming they need more than just the View but not Popcorn.

Not sure what you mean by your opening comment.

You think Irish people have no sence when it comes to deciding what they watch, you're bregruger over bracken, a programme that did RTE well It ran for 3 season over ten episode and starred many of the people you see in BallyK, Father Ted and Hollywood stars, it did them well too. Perhaps people watched bracken and The Riordans because they thought it was good and its not up to me or you to tell people what is good. People and critics have discided on On Home Ground and it was a bad mistake to commission another series of it.

As for 60's 70's 80's and early 90's TV Glenroe, Bracken, Tolka Row and The Riordans etc. are quite good for that era in TV just look at what was coming out of the US, Dallas, Knots Landing, Dynasty etc. TV has come along way on both side of the alantic. So yes the era does matter.

Darby OGill

Looks like it's going to be pistols at dawn, Elmo......

So Emmerdale has run for 30 years. I don't know or care what ITV's justification for that is, we're talking about RTE here. Are you really suggesting that because something is on UK TV, we should do the same, all the time? RTE seems to think so. Don't forget that RTE likes to remind us that it cannot be compared with its UK counterparts, when it suits.

We're not going to agree on Bracken etc. In 40 years, RTE's main home-produced non-sport, non-news/current affairs output has consisted of essentially the same programme. There have been a few exceptions (Strumpet City, that detective thing a couple of years ago for example). You think this is OK, I think it is a prime example of why RTE should be forced to do something new with all the extra cash it's going to get. As I've said already, I may not like all of the new stuff RTE might do, but at least I would acknowledge that it wasn't more Fair City, or the Riordans by another name. I'm old enough to remember The Riordans, and in it's day it was fresh and challenging at times. But once it was ended, it should have stayed that way.

I never saw The Cassidys, maybe it was crap, but at least it was new. If it didn't work, fair enough, in that case at least RTE didn't make another two or three series of it, unlike some of the other stuff we've mentioned.

I've only seen a bit of No Frontiers, but it looks like a repeat to me, and I only recall one series being made. (I could be wrong on that though- I'm talking about the girl (nurse?) and the tall Cork guy (Gavin Harte?) going halfway across the world).

How do you know I would give out if RTE did science fiction? (I never said science fiction drama by the way).

I never said Irish people had no sense. My point was that we tend to watch crap produced by RTE regardless of the standard and never demand a better service. RTE seems to take this as approval, and gives us more of the same. I've been paying for a TV licence for 10 years, and I want better value for (more) money.

I don't object to any TV which is new, home-produced, and trying to do something different. If it works, that's even better. If it doesn't, lose it.

Elmo

In regards emmerdale and the riordans I would of thought that ITV copied RTE for a change.

No Frountiers has been running on RTE for the past Three years and is on RTE One. Across The Line is the show your thinking of which was produced in association with with the learning channel, it ran 3 series of that in the 90's and was a great show.

During the 90's there has been very little channeling drama put on by RTE, and RTE have point that out on several occations with its 40 years of TV celebrations. There was more once of dramas and mini serials during the 60's 70's and 80's. Sadly RTE still refer to their triumph of Strumpet City which was a great show.

I never saw The Cassidys, maybe it was crap, but at least it was new. If it didn't work, fair enough, in that case at least RTE didn't make another two or three series of it, unlike some of the other stuff we've mentioned.

I agree. Batchelors walk is better and if you haven't seen it I think you missed out big time.

How do you know I would give out if RTE did science fiction? (I never said science fiction drama by the way).

Can you do a documentry on Science Fiction? Maybe that would be interesting? or maybe a comedy? I think many people would give out about this.

I never said Irish people had no sense. My point was that we tend to watch crap produced by RTE regardless of the standard and never demand a better service. RTE seems to take this as approval, and gives us more of the same. I've been paying for a TV licence for 10 years, and I want better value for (more) money.

Yes people will tune in for a home produced programme more so than an import, i tend to do it just to see if its any good if it isnt i stop watching which is what happen to the cassidys and now with on Home Ground (This is not a spin off to gelroe by the way). However now RTE has alot more competition from TV3 and satilite broadcasters. You seem to have stopped watching RTE and like many people see it just a plain crap, which is another thing "Irish" people tend to do. If TV3 where to make a tv show(other then news and sport) i would give it a chance.

Darby OGill

Not familiar with No Frontiers (is that the one with the nice-looking presenter, Catherine ??). I've three small kids, so anything that's on before 9.00 p.m. is just a blur. Can't believe Across the Line ran for three series, I'm getting old. I'm totally confused, not having had a decent holiday for years.............

I did watch the first series of Bachelor's Walk, and liked it, although I did feel it was Cold Feet "as gaeilge". Still, it was new, and very well produced, so I can't fault it for that. Only watched the first two programmes (one and a bit really) of the current series, and have to admit I've lost interest. Not sure why, but the story seems to have run out of steam in my opinion. Maybe it'll pick up, and I'll tune in again.

Why not science fiction comedy, or remember plain old science fiction action/adventure? It's probably beyond RTE's resources, I realise that, but it would be interesting to see them try.

I KNOW On Home Ground is not the bastard child of Glenroe etc., I just have that sinking feeling when I see this lame duck get a second series, which is my main point.

I can't see TV3 ever making a home-produced show, but yes I would give it a chance too.

icdg

Originally posted by Darby O'Gill
Why not science fiction comedy, or remember plain old science fiction action/adventure? It's probably beyond RTE's resources, I realise that, but it would be interesting to see them try.

Have there ever been any decent sci-fi comedies besides Red Dwarf? (Lexx maybe, but we haven't really seen that here). Come to think of it, has there been any sci fi out of RTE ever? Fortycoats and Company probably counts, but that was a kids show (and a Doctor Who rip off) anyway.

Leave it to the Beeb, methinks?

Elmo

3rd rock from the sun is a good sci-fi comedy. I never liked red dwarf.

Could Zig and Zag be considered Sci Fi?

icdg

Ah yes, good old Third Rock. Though John Litgow - who is excellent - holds the show together, the rest of the cast always seem to be there to pick up the gaps.

Although Third Rock is sci-fi, lots of people would not think of it as such because its' set on earth, has little or nothing in the way of special effects, even the aliens look human (of course, their non understanding of humanity is the central joke of the series. Even by the end though, they have spent so much time on Earth that they know humanity inside out and the joke is lost).

Anyway thats' all off topic. I don't think RTE could pull off either. Their treatment of foreign sci-fi is shabby (relegated to very late night slots on N2, and Star Trek hasn't been screened since 1995) so I dread to think how home produced sci-fi would do.

Victor

Originally posted by icdg
Although Third Rock is sci-fi

Isn't it more sit-com, although in this case the situation is sci-fi-ish.

Originally posted by icdg
on N2, and Star Trek hasn't been screened since 1995

I think Sky have done Trek to death, so there is no need to compete with them (other than 4-channel land people).

Darby OGill

It's amazing the way this thread has gone- I'm sorry I ever mentioned sci-fi.

Maybe it should be left to the Americans- although as a kid I loved Blake's 7 which RTE2 showed when it started up. RTE2 also showed the entire Prisoner series-my kid brother and I worshipped it.

Maybe I'm rambling, but there seemed to be far less dependence on American comedies in those days and an overall better choice of programmes. I can't actually recall any come to think of it, but there must have been some. A lot of the current crop are pretty poor. Maybe it was the excitement of a second channel!