O'Brien met with Enda Kenny

Cork

A SPECIAL advisor to former Taoiseach John Bruton arranged meetings between Denis O'Brien and Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny, the Moriarty Tribunal was told yesterday. Mr Kenny was Minister for Trade and Tourism at the time.

online.ie

Has Enda a case to answer?

Will Bertie be aiming for 3 in a row?

swiss

Why, nothing like a little subterfuge and finger pointing to shift blame away from the real bandits in Irish politics. Yes, we all know that quite a few of our politicians did act selfishly in their own interests, at the behest of large business concerns. From the tribunal findings, we also know that by far the majority of councilors who accepted large sums of money where "no favors were sought or given" were FF councillors.

There have been high profile incidents where some FG councillors and a FG TD have been caught red handed so to speak. By far the most damaging to the FG party has been Michael Lowry, who was kicked out of the party as soon as his indiscretion had become clear. On the other hand, we have a litany of FF ministers, backbenchers and councillors who waited to be pushed from office by a reluctant FF who stubbornly disavow any knowledge of any wrongdoing.

I'm going to check myself before I start a mini-rant about FF, but I think it's the height of hypocrisy when FF or any advocate of that parlimentary party start lecturing other parties about standards in public office. As far as I can tell, the greatest failing FG posess is their woeful inability to exploit the glaring lack of moral standards and accountability of the present administration.

Has Enda a case to answer?

Enda, why aren't you pressing FF harder?

Will Bertie be aiming for 3 in a row?

His spindoctoring skills and teflon coating are legendary. Unless he's found doing something stupid like snorting cocaine he'll field any indiscretion or blatant party corruption, laughing it off with some sporting anecdote or logical non sequiter.

So much for checking my mini rant.

As for the story, here is the article. So it seems Enda Kenny met with Dennis O'Brien. *gasp* Better lock them both up so and throw away the key. There is absolutely no evidence of any wrondoing by either party in this article. Either present some, or stop making sweeping statements such as "Has Enda a case to answer?". He might, if you a present such a case to him.

Bateman

I think its FF that are to blame for the fact that whenever we hear the word "meeting" used in this context that we immediately think of all sorts of sordid business.

I mean was Denis O Brien selling arms to Enda Kenny who would then dish them out to all his FG TDs to get rid of FF once and for all? I doubt it.:D

Cork

Originally posted by Bateman
I think its FF that are to blame for the fact that whenever we hear the word "meeting" used in this context that we immediately think of all sorts of sordid business.

D

Denis O Brien made millions from the awarding of the third mobile licene. It could still cost the state millions - if it was awarded incorrectly.

But - If this is true, it is unwise that Enda met Dennis.


It would be the same as an auditor of a company having a drink which the company directors.

It really does not say alot for ENdA.

hallelujajordan

"Mr Kenny had also told the tribunal he had no recollection of any such meeting with Mr O'Brien, although his official diary noted a meeting with Dan Egan at 5pm on May 17, 1995."


"Richard Bruton also denied he had any recollection of a meeting with Mr O'Brien but his diary contained an entry for Denis O'Brien at 7:30pm on May 17, 1995."

There is absolutely no evidence of any wrondoing by either party in this article

Maybe there is no evidence YET! ... . . But don't you think it is pretty odd that both Richard Bruton and Enda Kenny would go to such lengths to deny meeting O'Brien without checking their diaries first . . . . . Maybe they're scared ? ? Or maybe they're just plain stupid !!:cool:

Cork

Link

I think that as a country - we need answers relation to the the granting of the licence & the Telenor cheque.

This one could cost Ireland many euros.

Originally posted by Cork
Link

I think that as a country - we need answers relation to the the granting of the licence & the Telenor cheque.

This one could cost Ireland many euros.

*cough* if it's going to cost money, maybe we don't need answers at all, just sweep it under the carpet:o

This issue is probably going to end up in a "he said ...She said..." argument, and probably not in the courts.
I would guess that , it wouldn't be long before talk surfaced of the other bidders attempting political persuasion as well, something sure to make any rush to the courts a slippy one.
Maybe not though,it's been a long day, so I'm off to bed now for some shut eye, I won't be losing sleep over this one.
mm

Cork

Maybe. If it was shown that there was wrong doing giving out the licence - it could cost our country dear.

Woould we be better to forget about it?

I think on balance - It somebody does something - & there are questions to answer - those questions deserve answers.

Thats all fine and dandy, but....wrong doing hasn't been proved in this case, just speculated upon at the moment.
It would be better to keep the powder keg dry and speculate a little less untill we see the final Tribunal report.
Lots of bank accounts are being trawled through and so far, acres of news print (mainly so far in the Indo....but didn't Tony O' Reilly, have an interest here, and isn't there speculation about him meeting Lowry as well?? ...fishy) and all the fuss in this thread, is over a particular £4,000 contribution...
Thats not going to be of any use in a court of law, if the others were at it as well(and they probably were, you know, given that,the murky world of contract awarding that is now becoming more and more evident, was an open secret)

To be honest, if there was no corruption at all, then we could have diverted, the massive cost of these tribunals into something else.
mm

Cork

Thats all fine and dandy, but....wrong doing hasn't been proved in this case, just speculated upon at the moment.

I agree.

To be honest, if there was no corruption at all, then we could have diverted, the massive cost of these tribunals into something else.

I think alot of these tribunerals are a waste of time. They concern events going bak 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

I think that they are more history than current affairs.

But that said - the questions concerning the awarding to the second mobile phone licence & planning need to be looked at.

But - I think that their main achievement has been providing little stories for our newspapers.

How much hospital equipment could the cost of these tribunerals have bought?

Why can't the government introduce a whistle blowing charter whereby people could highlight any abuses to the proper authorities?

gandalf

Cork as has been said before most of the current tribunials are making money therefore your arguement on that level is invalid.

Also if someone has done wrong then they should not get away with it just because it happened 10,20 or even 30 years ago. I feel if they are found to have abused their positions to their own montary benefit then they should do hard time.

I particularly liked your

Why can't the government introduce a whistle blowing charter whereby people could highlight any abuses to the proper authorities?

Probably because they are the ones with the most to fear. Without doubt the current crop of politicans (especially in Fianna Fail) were tainted during a period when corruption and underhanded dealing was widespread.

Cork you keep going on about the Health Service, well your beloved FF headed a Government that had the best opportunity in this countries history to sort it once and for all. All they did was bury their heads in sand and take the cowards way out.

I suppose a National Stadium is more important that someone lying on a trolley in Casulty for 16 hours (as happened to my father after a heart attack last December and he's on VHI!).

As for Lowry he along with others like Beverly Cooper-Flynn should be removed from the Dail, they are a disgrace to the Irish people that they are suppost to represent. I personally believe that Lowry and O'Brien were involved in shady dealings with regard to the Mobile Phone license.

Gandalf.

Cork

Without doubt the current crop of politicans (especially in Fianna Fail) were tainted during a period when corruption and underhanded dealing was widespread.

This is my biggest worry about the tribunerals - We are drawing conclusions about our political partys too soon. What about all those who had non resident accounts? What about those who had credit union accounts and not declared their dividend?

Corruption and underhanded dealing was widespread. But in singling out one party above everybody else is unfair.

I think our politicians need bottle to reform the health service. I saw an ICU unit last year. It was a disgrace. But, Is our health stratergy any good? I really don't know.

Do I care?

Definiately.

*cough* Cork, opening bogus non resident accounts was open to anyone up untill recently-some holders were honest enough to take the amnesty.
Also wasn't Beverly Cooper Flynn very fond of encouraging people to set them up...and her Daddy a Fianna Fáil government minister at the time...

Unfortunately for you, because they were in power most of the time, most of the corruption has been FF corruption.
Thats why they are singled out really.

mm

Cork

If people are found guilty of corruption or wrong doing - we have laws to cater for it.

I think no political party in Ireland can start throwing stones.

Micheal McDowell is setting up new procedures to bypass the whole tribuneral thing.

We need fast, efficent & effective methods of investigation.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
I think no political party in Ireland can start throwing stones.

So what (even if true)?

Plenty of people can start throwing stones. You and I both know that there's been a environment of corruption, backscratching and brown paper bags in Fianna Fail for over twenty years. I'm not a member of any political party and I'm throwing the first innocent stone at your lot, given that all the available evidence would indicate that the corruption has run from the very top to the very bottom for a significant period of time. And that's a pretty damning indictment for any group of people that choose to align themselves under a particular banner and protest when people cry out at their fouls.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
I think our politicians need bottle to reform the health service. I saw an ICU unit last year. It was a disgrace. But, Is our health stratergy any good? I really don't know.

Which is clearly why you continue to lend your unswaying loyalty and support to the most influential party, who are (by logical extension) the most responsible for the continuation of the problems you consider a disgrace.

I'm just curious - does your hyprocacy (like Doc Holiday's in Tombstone) know no bounds?

jc

Cork

Originally posted by bonkey
Which is clearly why you continue to lend your unswaying loyalty and support to the most influential party, who are (by logical extension) the most responsible for the continuation of the problems you consider a disgrace.

I'm just curious - does your hyprocacy (like Doc Holiday's in Tombstone) know no bounds?

jc

FF are not the worst. Billions extra have been put into our health system. If extra money was the answer to our health system - the problem would be solved years ago.

Health is far too an important issue to play politics with. TDs trying to keep small hospitals in their area open.

We need proper health management.

What is the alternative to FF.

A FG/labour minority government?

I hope that the last FG/Labour government have not exposed our country to legal actions in relation to awarding the second mobile phone licence.

Various groups are watching our tribunerals very closely. If such - legal actions are successful - Will FG & Labour take responsibility?

Cork

Originally posted by sceptre
So what (even if true)?

Plenty of people can start throwing stones.

Certain politicians called from Seamus Brennans resignation?

Have these people even apologised?

Have these people even basic manners?

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
Certain politicians called from Seamus Brennans resignation?

Have these people even apologised?

Have these people even basic manners?

As per usual you're ignoring the part of the point that doesn't suit you to take account of. My point was that Irish people have the right as citizens to throw stones. I then went on to accuse your political party of being steeped so deep in corruption that everyone smells. J'accuse, Cork.

You're concentrating solely on politicians accusing other politicians ( at least that's what the first sentence above would be interpreted as by any ordinary person reading it). If you're going to ignore what I'm saying, don't quote me when you pretend to respond.

Cork

Irish people have the right as citizens to throw stones

But people should throw wild accusations around. People should think & get the facts before they assisinate peoples reputations.

your political party of being steeped so deep in corruption

There is bad apples in every barrell. The awarding of the third mobile licence has the potential to be the biggest financial scandal to hit our country. According to yesterdays Sunday Business Post - Several unsuccessful applicants are readying themselves for legal action.

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
But people should throw wild accusations around. People should think & get the facts before they assisinate peoples reputations.

(I'm assuming there's a "not" missing there)

You make a statement like that after starting this thread?


Ironically (and perhaps tragically) you probably can't see the contradiction (which probably makes it somewhat pointless for me (or anyone coherent) to reply again here).

Cork

This tread was started with a question:

Has Enda a case to answer?

Seamus Brennan was unfairly treated by the media and by politicians.

I hope he does split up Aer Rianta. We deserve more choice from Shannon & Cork.

But people should not throw wild accusations around. People should think & get the facts before they assisinate peoples reputations

I think the granting to the 2nd mobile phone licence needs investigation. I hope that they find that it was awarded fairly because it it has not - it will cost our country.

I did not throw wild accusations around about Enda. He is a gentleman. You seem under the impression - I did.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
This tread was started with a question:
...
I did not throw wild accusations around about Enda. He is a gentleman. You seem under the impression - I did.

Ah, so its ok to ask other people to throw around accusations based on a media report, but its not ok to actually make an allegation.

In otherwords, it was ok for you to ask the question, but people shouldnt go answering it because they wont have the facts - only unreliable media reports. You know - those people who go around mistreating politicians by printing these speculative areticles about them....

One would wonder what the point of you asking the question was then?

But sure, if you want to go with "pointless" instead of "ironic" or "hypocritical", thats fine.

Alternately, if you still defend your asking of the question as somehow being different, would you therefore agree that me asking a question such as "Based on recent posts, does anyone feel Cork is a complete idiot?" I, too, would not be making any allegations or jumping to conclusions...I'm just asking the same type of question that you did....which is clearly ok in your book.

jc

swiss

Originally posted by Cork:

Has Enda a case to answer?

Asking whether Enda has a case to answer or not insinuates wrongdoing on his part. The fact that you base this insinuation on the fact that he met with Dennis O'Brien is laughable. Mr O'Brien was negotiating for a mobile communication licence. Would it not make sense for a senior minister in a governmental party to meet with the man?

Given the subsequent revelations about Michael Leary and the awarding of the licence to Mr O'Brien, one can see how some people can taint Mr Kenny by association. I say that simply isn't good enough. Given today's climate of skepticism towards politicians it can be easy to forget that there is no evidence of Enda Kenny doing anything wrong. By your own admission Cork, Enda Kenny is a gentleman.

Michael Lowry, on the other hand blatantly abused his position of power within the Fine Gael party. As I have already stated, as soon as this became clear, he was expelled. True, this episode may cost the state a great deal in reparations, but you are speaking as if the actions of one man taint the entire party. To a certain extent they do, but by your dogged insistence that "There is bad apples in every barrell " (sic) you should also recognise that it is grossly unfair to accuse Enda Kenny of wrongdoing because of a scandal orchestrated by another member of that party.

The reason why I for one doggedly pursue Fianna Fail is because, as sceptre stated, enough evidence has emerged to indicate that corruption within Fianna Fail ranks was endemic for a very significant period of time, with a climate of silence, arrogance and greed at it's very heart. Whether there is still corruption or not is difficult to determine, because to a large extent that climate of silence has prevailed.

The point being made in all of this is that instead of pointing the finger of accusation (and I do contend it was accusing) at Enda Kenny, it would be well to look at the litany of rot within the ranks of the largest political party in Ireland, Fianna Fail.

Cork

Michael Lowry, on the other hand blatantly abused his position of power within the Fine Gael party.

Given the subsequent revelations about Michael Leary and the awarding of the licence to Mr O'Brien

IThe 2nd mobile phone licence was awarded by that FG/Labour Government.

with a climate of silence, arrogance and greed at it's very heart. Whether there is still corruption or not is difficult to determine, because to a large extent that climate of silence has prevailed

The awarding of this licence has the potential to make the other issues in the tribunerals look like "Barney & Friends".

Would it not make sense for a senior minister in a governmental party to meet with the man?

We'll await the tribuneral report.

Would it be right for an auditor to go out for a pint with the company directors? No

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
IThe 2nd mobile phone licence was awarded by that FG/Labour Government.

No wonder you're so quick to talk about this one...and so slow to let it go.

The awarding of this licence has the potential to make the other issues in the tribunerals look like "Barney & Friends".

Look, I've had enough of this bullsh1t from you.

Either you believe that something underhanded happened, or
you did not, or you dont know.

If you believe that something happened, then say so, and admit that your "dont make wild accusations" post was
hypocritical.

If you believe nothing underhanded happened, then shut up about it, because you dont believe anything was wrong, so stop insinuating that there might be.

Or, as a third option, admit that you do not know whether something underhanded took place or not, in which case either shut up about it until the findings are known, or again admit that your "dont make wild accusations" post was hypocritical.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
Would it be right for an auditor to go out for a pint with the company directors? No

Actually, the correct analagous question would be whether or not it would be right for an auditor to meet with the company directors, because thats all that has been reported - a meeting.

The answer, here, is clearly that it not only is alright, but that it would be expected. Unfortunately, that wouldnt give Cork any other-party bashing material.

A bit less disingenuity and a bit more honesty mightnt go astray.

jc

Cork

Originally posted by bonkey


The answer, here, is clearly that it not only is alright, but that it would be expected. Unfortunately, that wouldnt give Cork any other-party bashing material.

A bit less disingenuity and a bit more honesty mightnt go astray.

jc

I am not battering FG as they are pretty bruised already.

But - This 2nd mobile licence saga is very serious - I think competition was needed in this area & hopefully the competition was conducted properly.

But I think many questions need to be answered about the awarding to this licence. The outcome of this tribuneral could be very serious financially for this country and I did not mean to be any way flippant.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
But I think many questions need to be answered about the awarding to this licence. The outcome of this tribuneral could be very serious financially for this country and I did not mean to be any way flippant.

So - you are making allegations without the facts being known.

OK. Fine - no need to discuss this further. I've no interest in trying to hold a discussion with a hypocrite - I'll never be able to tell which posts are actually meant to be what you believe and which are just things you'll contradict yourself on with your true beliefs when necessary.

jc

Cork

This whole sage led the nine O Clock news again last night.

I think they are many questions to answer.
I think the Telenor cheque is more complicated than the Holy Trinity.
Mr. Lowry was appointed a Minister by John Bruton.

The awarding of this licence was a government decision.

I hope for the sake of this country was awarded correctly.

We'll await the report of the tribuneral.

Hmmm,

So far all I heard was that the minister, arranged the announcement party before officialls had signed off on the declaration of the licence.
Lowry as minister was at best being over excited/zealous at the end of a contest to bring the first ever competition to Eircel.
Of course as minister his officials would have kept him up to speed on the contest, and he would have made a judgement on who was going to be the likely winner.
The officials may have wanted some more information from esat, but clearly, at that stage they would have wanted a heck of a lot more from the other contenders.

No usefull evidence yet of any wrong doing, of course, the tribunal will make it's judgement when all the evidince is seen.
mm

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
We'll await the report of the tribuneral.

Good, then obviously your intial question as to whether or not he has a case to answer is null and void - if we await the tribunal report then there is nothing to answer at this point, especially seeing as you dont want wild speculation.

Which leaves only one conclusion....the thread originator no longer wishes the question to be answered...

Thread locked.

jc