If they found "the gene" would you have it modified ?

yellum

Lets hope this starts some debate:

If they found the "gay gene" and could modify it, would you get it done ?

One operation or chemical treatment and your straight and fancy the opposite sex. Would you get the procedure ?

This in itself is not about if such a thing exists or what defines homsexuality or bisexuality or whatever, just would you prefer to be a straight person ?

Or if you are straight, would you like to try and tweak the gene to make you bi ?

segadreamcast

I wouldn't have it modified - being gay is part of who I am, and much like I wouldn't get a nose job - I wouldn't tweak my genes to make myself straight again.

There, that'll prompt one hell of a debate

swiss

Interesting you should mention it. Last Thursday, after I stumbled to a friends house pished I put on channel 4 where they were discussing research into a potential 'gay' gene. They were conducting research into twins, where they found a close correlation between sexual preferences and the existence of certain genetic 'markers'.

In fact, in the studies conducted, based on the results, it was practically a statistical certainty that being gay was dependant on this genetic marker. Now again, bear in mind that I was not in a position to rationally dissect these arguments at the time, but I found this compelling evidence for the existence of a gene that allows for sexual predispositions.

To answer your question, and to act as a devils advocate, if such a way was found to alter this gene so as to make a person 'straight' then I would probably take it. Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly not apologetic for who I am, but it is also an indisputable fact that societal and biological factors mitigate against homosexuals. For example, we have the grey area over whether gays can/should have kids, whether through adoption or by other means i.e intercourse with members of the opposite sex, IVF etc.

shotamoose

Originally posted by yellum
Lets hope this starts some debate:

If they found the "gay gene" and could modify it, would you get it done ?

Hmmmm, it would make sex with men a lot more troublesome, so I'd have to say no . I'd have thought that most adults who've settled into their own personalities, lifestyles and habits would turn it down, unless they're seriously unhappy (in which case it's probably not JUST their sexuality that's causing it). Ask an embryo and s/he might say different. More practically, and this is where it gets REALLY contentious, you'll have to end up asking the parents.

So, (and some might say I'm going off-topic, though I think it's a logical progression) if you were a prospective parent and you had the chance to choose your child's sexuality, what would you do? Would you refuse the choice, or go one way or the other? I can't say what I'd do - I just don't know at the moment.

BuffyBot

I may not be always happy as I am for whoever many reasons, but I can't see myself being happier any other way.

It may be a cliche, but it has an element of truth - The grass is always greener on the other side....... or so some people think

PiE

If they could make me bi I'd take it.

The more choice the better :]

atgate

I wouldn't change the gene, but I might change my nose.....

Seriously though, there was a time I might have wanted to go str8 but it just wasn't an option. Now, I can't imagine my life any other way, nor would I want to!!

B

DeVore

If I could take a pill to invert my sexuality back and forth... would I experiment with it?

Hmmm, yeah probably. I like to play with altered mindstates (not particularly/just through the odd smoke ). Like Snowboarding really alters my personality for a few hours after I'm finished (and all the time during it) due to the chemicals flying around in there. You consider yourself bulletproof (quite dangerous actually as you start to do things that could kill you!).

So yeah, I think I would. (Watch the number of people who will now think I'm gay )

DeV.

Shinji

I've always been really attracted by the science fiction concept of resleeving; the ability to switch your body as easily as you change your clothes, or the ability to change your gender at will (like in Iain M Banks' Culture novels).

So yeah, I'd use a pill to switch my sexuality, and my gender if possible. But only if there was a way to flick it back and forth, rather than making a final decision

govinda

Ask an embryo and s/he might say different. More practically, and this is where it gets REALLY contentious, you'll have to end up asking the parents.

Scary point about the parents. Personally speaking, I'd have to say no, no way would I take the pill or change the gene . I've invested too much time and effort in being a happy homosexual :-) Just like atgate, I can't see myself any other way now

yellum

While being straight in this modern world is less complicated (generally) I'm happy with what I am. I'd get the bi gene though and enjoy both worlds. I feel guilty turning down so many hot women all the time, this way I won't have too.

De Rebel

Originally posted by yellum
While being straight in this modern world is less complicated ......

not so sure about that. maybe when i was 20ish i'd have said that. but now that i'm not 20ish i look at my str8 friends with their complicated lives, separations, divorces, and all the other encumbrances and baggage, versus cheerful content me and my current partner, i'm not so sure at all. my life looks much more straight (!) forward and less complicated. and i know i am a hell of a lot more content.

If they found "the gene" would you have it modified ?

No I would not. I'm grand as I am. Though I might be tempted to pop it in a bottle for a rainy day, or a day when it stopped "raining men"

azezil

I suppose i am a bit curious, its certainly not somthing i'd try in my current mindset, but if it was just a matter of poping a pill i suppose i'd try it ... for a while.

STaN

definetly not, but it could be possible to screen all future babies if they find it, and impliment a change while the baby is still developing.

Plus some parts of a women's body are just iiicky

chernobyl

Originally posted by STaN

Plus some parts of a women's body are just iiicky

Try saying that with a hard on for them...hehe
I dont need the cherno mod, happy where i am for the moment.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Talliesin

Just when that last friend who struggled against the fact has finally accepted it (or in my experience, actually come out themselves) you'd have to go tell them all you were straight.
It'd be like being David Bowie or something.

roxy

Interesting....I was told by a friend of mine who's studying Human Genetics in TCD that some students had to engineer gay mice.

Surely that takes away from the nature-nurture theory in biology and brings it right down to genes.

Unfortunately I don't know any more about the experiment other than the fact that it happened.

HerrLipp

any research i've heard on the subject referred to a faulty gene on the X chromosone which affects the size of the hypothalamus and from there the ability to feel attraction towards females. Apparently gay men and women have the same size hypothalamus.
Of course being carried on the X-chromosone means that it has to be passed from the mother's side of the family, so there's a great Freudian appeal in that - getting to put the blame on your mother !!!

WhiteWashMan

no.
im quite happy being hetro-sexual thanks.

Pepe LeFrits

Might be interesting to 'cross over' for a while but no, i'm happy the way I am.

logic1

Originally posted by kaids
Might be interesting to 'cross over' for a while but no, i'm happy the way I am.

So you'd cross over and actually date girls for a while? Cool.

.logic.

STaN

heh, never even entered my mind that some1 might like to try the whole gay thing for a day.... interesting

leeroybrown

I'm happy as a hetro-sexual (If a little under-sexed at the moment ).

I'd really have to wonder what would happen if parents were told the sexuality of their children at birth based on a gene marker and given the choice to change it.

Also theres the issue of people perhaps tampering with others genetic sexual disposition.

There is one other question:

Is there a set of bi-sexuality gene markers????

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by logic1
So you'd cross over and actually date girls for a while? Cool.

.logic.

Might be interesting, ja.

Dawg

Might have done a few year ago if given the choice but not now... I like me just the way ah am

That bein said, a pill to change back and forth could b a bit of a laff..I'd give that one a bit o thought

Morn

The parental choice issue is interesting...

I can see obvious arguments for parents choosing to have gay children (not saying I agree with them!)
But are there any circumstances you could see straight parents choosing to make their children gay?

If your parents had chosen to make you gay would you be angry/thankful/whatever?

It's an interesting issue I think - any opinions?


p.s. it occurs it'd most likely cut down on the risk of your son/daughter getting pregnant accidentally...

HerrLipp

But are there any circumstances you could see straight parents choosing to make their children gay?

You never know, some fathers might really not want their daughters getting pregnant

Ba$tard

I think there is an inherent risk about all this 'if you could take the pill for one day' stuff....you may never come back...



Think about it....in the current natural sexual state a person is in wants to try out the pill for one day and one day only....

That person does it......likes it entirely due to the pill and then changes his altered mind never to go back...

The original person before the state-change has lost their personality for good.....

HerrLipp

yeah it's like the old argument where gay guys say "i wouldn't want to be straight because I prefer men" and straight guys say "i wouldn't like to be gay because I prefer women"

Hobart

Ok. Here's my 2c worth. A few facts first:

1) I am straight hetro male

2) Married with 2 wonderful kids

3) Have no hangups about people being straight/gay/bi as long as they are happy and they are not intentionally hurting anyone.

As a parent if I was told during the embriotic stage that my son/daughter had the 'Gay Gene' and that my wife could take a a pill to make them hetro-sexual I would encourage her to take it. My main reason for this would be for their sake. My view, probably somewhat incorrect or naive, is that straight males/females have a hard enough time growing up, going through puberty etc.... I could only imagine how much harder that would be if they were attracted to somebody of thier own sex and did not fit into the current accepted 'norm' . Again I have no experience of this it's just my take on it.

Secondly. I know two or three gay men. 2 of the guy I would describe as quite outward going and could not give a flying f**k about what people thought of thier sexuality. One guy is quite introverted. Now I am sure he is quite happy and comfortable with his sexuality but, how can I put it, he is a target for bullies. He is an easy target, simple as that. Now I am not saying that his life is a living misery, but he sometimes gets a hard time and I would hate for my kids to go through that.

Again being straight I have found it easy to meet and get on with the opposite sex. I have been quite content with the many girls I have met throughout the years and I have allways been happier when in good company. I would hate that my children would be 'ostrasised' from any groups because of thier sexuality.

Lastly I have put this the best way I can and I hope I did not offend anybody.

Shinji

Hobart...

I understand where you're coming from. I just think it's a bit sad that people think this way.

Kids with red hair have a harder time growing up than kids with dark hair. Would you change the genetic coding for your child's hair in the womb?

Our society is enriched by diversity. Genetic manipulation can be used to cure disease and deformity; it should never be used to destroy diversity. If this technology was available to people, it wouldn't take Adolf Hitler to breed a master race of blond haired, blue eyed, six foot tall supermen. Well-meaning parents would do it, each one wishing only the best for their own child, each one not seeing the bigger picture of what they were doing to our race.


I also genuinely believe that the love a parent feels for a child is strengthened by the difficulties it faces. If you can custom-build a perfect child, will you really love it as much as an imperfect child - a child with red hair, a child with a lazy eye, a child with a stutter, a child who reaches puberty and discovers that they're gay or that they don't agree with your religion or that they want to be a musician rather than a barrister? I believe that parenthood and childhood alike would be cheapened by the choice to remove the rough and take only the smooth.

Hobart

Shinji,

And I perfectly understand what you are saying. You have to appreciate that I am new to this whole parenthood thing. Now I do not want to get off the subject but when I had my first child, 4 years ago, I could not contemplate the impact that this little ledgend would have on my life. Litteraly my world revolves around her. It's as simple as that. The same goes for my 2 year old son.

So while I appreciate exactly where you are coming form, and in fact probably in a totally ridiculous way agree with you, I still feel that way. It's very hard for me to percieve what, if anything, a Gay/BI/Lesbian person goes through when they are growing up etc.. I can only see it from the nice comfortable straight perspective. And I do not deny that my perspective has flaws. I am a total hyprocrite when it comes to these issues TBH. Again no offence intended but when talking about various friends when the subject of A Gay friend comes up in company I nearly always, at some point in the conversation, end up saying something like "I no problems with him being gay". What an absoloutely ridicuklous thing to say. But I just can't seem to help my self sometimes. Now I don't say, for example, "I have no problem with him havig red hair".

On the wider perspective of Gay rights etc... I find myself thinking that all people regardless of thier sexuality should be treated the same way, while in the forefront of my mind thinking thank f**k I'm not gay. Now i never say thank f**k I don't have red hair or a lazy eye or a stammer. Because maybe I see those things as 'fixable ' if I had them or my children had them.

Again no offence to anybody intended. I am trying to put this into words the best way I can.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Hobart

And I did not know we knew so much about KY JELLY but you keep up the good work aswell!

yellum

Originally posted by Shinji


I also genuinely believe that the love a parent feels for a child is strengthened by the difficulties it faces. If you can custom-build a perfect child, will you really love it as much as an imperfect child - a child with red hair, a child with a lazy eye, .....I believe that parenthood and childhood alike would be cheapened by the choice to remove the rough and take only the smooth.

Have to disagree with you there Shinjii. Surely a parent will love their child no matter what. You seem to be implying that a parent will give more love to its child if it has an imperfection ? If I had a choice to remove my childs stutter or lazy eye I would. I would class these as imperfections. I would not class my homosexuality as such though.

I wouldn't really class growing up with a lazy eye or a stutter as some sort of life experience, growing up with these fixed does not cheapen your childhood imho.

cartman

i was just wondering there at what Yellum stated about "turning down hot chicks"

im not gay but i thought gay people have no urges or anything for the opposite sex.. i dunno
just the way he said it was like he was bi or sometihng( no offence intended)

was just wondering.

cart

HerrLipp

Just because you acknowledge someone is hot, doesn't mean you're attracted to them.

yellum

Originally posted by Cartman
i was just wondering there at what Yellum stated about "turning down hot chicks"

im not gay but i thought gay people have no urges or anything for the opposite sex.. i dunno
just the way he said it was like he was bi or sometihng( no offence intended)

Lol , no offence taken. A hot chick is a thing of beauty no ? Many people can appreciate things of beauty without being sexually attracted to them. Think about all those hot chicks out there and who their stylists are - gay men. They appreciate things of beauty and make them look hotter.

Same goes with Hetero guys, some of my friends will comment on how hot a guy is, but they are not gay. They can just comment while still feeling secure about their sexuality.

De Rebel

bump......

Macker

I havn't read the whole thread yet but according to the book Genome by Matt Ridley they found it years ago ,the interesting thing was that he seemed to thinks the gene came from the mothers side ,and that in most cases studied an uncle of the gay person on the mothers side way also gay ,


Macker

Niall S.

jesus.. what a crazy discussion!

its an interesting idea, but really, you should be proud what you are.

Pink and Proud!

Gargamel

Let's face it lads, gay people subvert the biological imperative of pro-creation and the social imperative of the family unit and are therefore ultimately abhorrent to nature... nah seriously though, I think that eventually when things level out the focus in relationships will be less on gender and more on the individuals involved. The scene and it's negative connotations will become easier to avoid because this kind of apartheid (hopefully) won't be necessary! To quote a wise woman, it's about 'people who need people' the discrimination end of things will never get sorted if we're all popping pills to become part of an oppresive majority. Maybe it'd be easier, but it wouldn't be us. Anyway given the choice I'd rather explore my own potential in life than push a buggy, so for me being gay has it's built in advantages in that sense.

yellum

So thats a no then ?:rolleyes:

Gargamel

Don't get me wrong, blokes wreck my head, but I'm stayin' on the dark side, I just wouldn't give the God Squad the satisfaction of giving in

Pep

just a few minutes ago poontang was blocked from this board cos he expressed an opinion about this issue. what a joke do ye only want to hear opinions if they agree with you, instead of banning him why didnt ye ask him to justify it?? Why set up a thread about blocking genes and not respect his opinion, why not set up a thread saying all homosexuality is great and only allow people who agree post, then ye could all be happy in yere own little world

yellum

Our own little world ? Are you sure its so little. We're everywhere now We are your milkmen, your busdrivers, your doctors, your lawyers and your computer network admins.

An insult is not a debate. If he wants to express insults then he is in the wrong forum.

Oh and I really meant it about your network admins. Wave to the camera behind you. We're watching you right now ucc boy.

You do realise that you have to obey this too ?

http://www.ucc.ie/aup.xml

Pep

are you threatening me Yellum I dont think I did anything wrong there or is mentioning anything against your wishes wrong I neither gave an opinion for or against the topic and you are implying i violated some of the acceptable usage terms

when you refer to the aup im assume you mean this

use computer or network resources to access or distribute offensive, obscene, abusive, or threatening material;

how have i violated this term or any other term???

Gordon

Although I dont want to be putting words into others' mouths and I don't want to drag this off topic even further I have to say to Pep

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=900896#post900896 this thread quoting insulting adjectives for homosexuals was your mate wasn't he? If he was - then the poster did in fact abuse the aup as I see it.

Pep

That may have been the case alright Gordan and I agree that he would then be breaking the UCC rules but how did I break the rules how was I insulting by merely saying banning people with disagreeing opinions FROM BOARDS.IE and not UCC was worth the threat 'Were watching you'

from the above link its clear any comment which is openly insulting should be deleted, not one which expresss a different opinion, these should be challenged not ignored

Gordon

i didn't want to put words into other peoples mouths but I think i will...

I don't think yellum was referring specifically to *you* but to the poster that had posted insults to be honest. He may have seen *you* as the original poster. But that would be putting words in yellums mouth*.


*ooerr!