3Gb cap - 3 Hours

Krouc

You wont use 3gb in a month...

Just for anyone *thinking/losing it* and getting i-steal.

In three hours I did over 3GB downloading just Redhat 8.0's five Cd images, nevermind all the other stuff.

I thought I'd post this as it kinda puts the cap in perspective.

w00h00,
Krouc

stormkeeper

Erk... That's not long at all

Krouc

Prolly less as I was watching streaming stuff from CNN, mp3's on Kazaa along with the usual surfing and emailing.

But what I was trying to say is that one download can burst your monthly cap.

Linux this month
Use it next month.

Maybe eircom can now start selling the Distro's! Shop at the Eircom store and save your monthly download cap! All the popular downloads available on Cd! For a steal no doubt....

connected to an easier life,
Krouc

KdjaCL

When i 1st got it i averaged 100mb a day (as did Eircom) I work 4 days a week so not on the PC so then though 200mb a day cool.

After umm going mental some months were 13 / 14gb (i blame the save to disk option).

And the 3gb is a joke in a week you will have that if you use the internet.


kdja

DC

€ircon hate downloaders even more than they hate people in general..... but then again they will love them if they can slap a charge of 3.6 cent per MB on them.

And lets face it, browsing IS downloading anyway. More content, e.g. Flash intros, etc, means more downloads. 3GB is an embarassment. It might be always on, but it doesn't fit my definition of broadband.

And like kdga, people will generally start out at maybe 3GB a month, but as people fall in love with broadband and the internet and discover the possibilities they never had with the internet simply because they could not download the content fast enough, they will go over the 13/14GB mark easily. Especially a family with kids of any age. 5 year olds will be looking for Mickey Mouse cartoons, 14 year olds wil be looking for Star map generators for their school projects, etc, etc...... And more homes will have multiple PCs, so every kid could have a connection in every bedroom (which by the way is forbidden in eircom's terms and conditions).

That's my 3.6 cents!

zynaps

Maybe they expect people to view large amounts of downloading as heavy usage beyond what 'normal' people would use.

Which kinda asks the question of eircom...
"Why do you try to sell your broadband offering by talking about how it can download things faster and allow people to watch flashy, high-bitrate, high-volume multimedia things, and then expect them to stick to essentially a narrowband usage pattern, and not be allowed use their newfound broadband access speeds to download?"

It's like saying "here is a box, much bigger than currently available boxes, with which you can store over 10 times more stuff in. Isn't that great? But if you use the box to store any more than a crappy, old box would store, you're abusing the box."

gaaahh..

zynaps

ednwireland

suggest if you see or hear any advertising that doesn't mention the cap then goto http://www.asai.ie (i have put in a complaint about the eircom i-stream radio advert being misleading as it doesn't mention the cap).
also complain to the odtr (for what i don't know but it's worth a try)
either that or pay fopr the enhanced service (€165 which is uncapped)

Scruff

just made a complaint myself. sick to **** of hearing those €ircon baxtards trying to pull the wool over the uninformed's eyes.:mad:

pork99

Eircom = vermin

but they cant help it

as I've said before be are gouged for taxes by a government who should be looking after our interests rather than allowing this sort of banditry to go on

why is this being allowed to go on and why is the ODTR so lame?

but I suppose collectively we get what we deserve (dont blame me, I didnt vote for them)

Dustaz

I havent reached 3gb yet this month.

Having said that i was working quite a lot. I used the internet every day though, browsed a lot, gamed a lot etc.

In previous months ive gone so far over the cap its not funny.

Theres 2 words in the difference : File Sharing.

Any month where ive used file sharing programs for anything other than the odd mp3 ive exceeded the cap by about 700%.

I fully agree with the need for a cap. Eircoms is a joke however, 10/15gb a month as standard would be much more realistic.

tuxy

has eircom started charging for exceeding the cap yet and if not do u live in fear of them implementing it with out u knowing and getting a huge bill?

sceptre

Originally posted by Dustaz
I fully agree with the need for a cap. Eircoms is a joke however, 10/15gb a month as standard would be much more realistic.

I also agree with the idea of a fair cap (at least in principle:D)

3Gb (it must be B, no?) is silly from the POV of a 56ker who could do well over that on a bog standard line in the same time.

captainpat

I have been trying to wade through the Eircom Bitstream Wholesale agreement as available on their site. I wanted to see why they are so punitive on downloaders, after they have already paid through the nose to acquire the service. I presume that if there were usage costs as distinct from installation and equipment costs, they would be passed on to Eircom's Bitstream customers (if they had any).

I can find no reference to usage or volume, only to speed of the port (512/128 or 1024/256). It seems that ports are available in blocks of 24 of each speed type. Is this the Contention Ratio in action?

If Eircom are putting in the minimum of equipment in each exchange (e.g. 1 or 2) then they will be filling up the ports on each unit very quickly, even with a slow take-up. Then, if these users start downloading at max rates and leaving a permanent queue, the bandwith on the shared 512k link would shrink to unusable rates.

Maybe the FRIACO would be a better deal, as (unless there is another line-sharing layer) each line will have it's rated 56k capability. My sums for ADSL show that the individual badwidth of a connection could shrink to 21kbps! (512k/24)

If speed is not the most important issue, but data throughput, can anybody advise?

Mountjoy Mugger

Originally posted by Dustaz
I fully agree with the need for a cap. Eircoms is a joke however, 10/15gb a month as standard would be much more realistic.

I can't believe I'm reading this sort of tosh in favour of caps from IOFFLers.

Next we'll have Esat changing their mind about no cap, much like they did with their No limits. Jeeze! Don't encourage them!

Dustaz

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger
I can't believe I'm reading this sort of tosh in favour of caps from IOFFLers.

Its not tosh. Its realistic.


Why should i pay the same amount of money as the warez kiddie whos running a filsharing program 24/7 and hogging bandwith?

Caps as long as they are realistic are not a problem. Sorry to break it to you, but they are also inevitable.

Mountjoy Mugger

Originally posted by Dustaz

Why should i pay the same amount of money as the warez kiddie whos running a filsharing program 24/7 and hogging bandwith?

Caps as long as they are realistic are not a problem. Sorry to break it to you, but they are also inevitable.

Well, lots of us aren't warez kiddies, Dustaz. I test for MS - and download an average of 4 GB per month from their site. I also like to play games, download demos, some music etc.

Because of the farcical situtation of a cap, I must hog my employer's bandwidth during office hours (with their permission) to keep myself from hitting the cap.

I reckon I hit about 30-40GB a month, on average but because of this realistic capping policy I can't use the product as most other DSL customers in the civilised world.

By the way, I presume you'd be expecting an exponential increase in the cap every year to reflect changes in download habits as well?

It's because of bloody roll over and die merchants that cause half the cr*p we find ourselves with now.

dahamsta

Dustaz isn't saying that the current caps are acceptable MM, he's saying that caps in general aren't a bad idea. They're not, as long as they're realistic; tiered levels of service are provided; and they provide value for money.

In other words, if you're downloading 40GB a month, you should be using a product or service developed specifically for people who download 40GB a month. A product for people who will only download 3GB a month should also be available.

This is the way it's going to be. It's the way it /should/ be, because it's fair and equitable for both us /and/ the telco. It's frankly astounding that more telco's haven't done it yet.

adam

Mountjoy Mugger

Originally posted by dahamsta
Dustaz isn't saying that the current caps are acceptable MM,

<snip> It's frankly astounding that more telco's haven't done it yet.

Adam,

I understand what Dustaz is saying, I just don't understand why he's saying it (come to think of it, I can't see why you're saying it either).

Maybe other telcos (European) aren't doing it because either:

They're making a satisfactory profit already or, they want to saturate the market and let the majority of users have the option of getting it before they implement some scaling to the product.

This would include Esat, u.TV (as in N.I), Leap (are they still there?) Irish Broadband and, gawd help us, Chorus.

captainpat

At least the cap was there from the beginning. Imagine the row we'd be having here if Eircom was introducing it after 6 months! And keeping the same pricing.

It looks like being inevitable and permanent from Eircom, so how do we respond "in advance" to other suppliers? Can we get 12-month contract clauses with "no cap"?

Can UTVIP give some undertakings? Or EsatBT?

Ca

Dustaz

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger


Maybe other telcos (European) aren't doing it because either:

Um they are actually. I dont have any examples to hand but i know that a portugese cable company does it and a lot of telcos in the states. Its not like Eircom invented this idea themselves you know.


When did i say that 3gb was acceptable? 3gb is a farce. Caps will probably become more predominant in the future, caps like this could not survive in a truly competitive marketplace tho.

sceptre

Originally posted by Mountjoy Mugger
I can't believe I'm reading this sort of tosh in favour of caps from IOFFLers.

Personally, I'm in no way defending Eircom's cap.

Certainly not a cap of 3GBpm on what they're charging - at €100+pm I'd certainly expect a product with no cap whatever (and still consider it overpriced at the cost).

I can see a place for a product at a much reduced price with a cap however.

dahamsta

I understand what Dustaz is saying, I just don't understand why he's saying it

Sorry, my bad. I get a little impatient on my sucky little line. The quality of my posts is directly proportional to the quality of my connection.

(come to think of it, I can't see why you're saying it either)

I've been saying it for a while actually MM. As a user, I don't particularly like the idea of it; but as a businessman I think that the entire concept of providing a standard service to users with drastically varying requirements is simply economically incorrect. You wouldn't settle for the same economic model for petrol, or food, or beer, would you? I would for beer, cos I like my beer, but there will be people pissed off at me because I'm drinking more than my fair share. See? That said, there are exceptions, such as water. (Is it right though?)

There are problems with the argument too, not least that bandwidth is provisioned in fixed quantities to the suppliers, but of course I believe that that's economically incorrect too, and to be honest I think it's one of the biggest cons of all time. That's not to say there isn't valid reasoning behind it, but I have asked some of the best network engineers in the country, and most of them have ultimately shrugged at me: "That's the way it's done." That's never really satisfied my curiosity.

The argument goes round and round, and we're certainly not going to resolve it here today, but that's pretty much my reasoning. It's important to point out though that it's a long term argument, and the short term argument varies greatly from country to country. In Ireland we're stuck in duopoly at the moment, which means our prices are far too high, which makes Eircom's caps all the more scandalous. In the UK they've gone too far in the other direction, their prices are too low, and this is going to bite them in the ass later.

And the US is a whole other kettle of fish altogether, because they have cheap bandwidth coming out their butts. The US can afford to do without caps for a while, for the same reason that flat-rate telephony is perfectly viable for them. In the end though, I think that everyone will end up meeting in the middle, and that middle ground will be tiered services. It makes the most economic sense. The question is how long it takes for them to see sense. Sometimes they never do, as we're all too painfully aware.

adam

PS. Yoda, yes, I accept that flat-rate telephony is perfectly valid here too. It was just the best example I could think of.

dahamsta

Now I come to think of it, I don't think anybody's asked the question recently, so I'll do it: You say you use about 40GB a month, right? Well, if I use 10GB a month* and I'm paying the same price as you, that means I'm subsidising your connection. Why should I?

Geddit now?

adam


* Sh'ya, right!

DC

Depends on the definition of a reasonable amount.
So what's a reasonable amount? I can see myself in the 10 - 15GB a month region.

And it depends on what you are being sold. I mean are you buying a bandwidth allocation or a transfer amount? Look at the way leased lines are charged for. Say you have a few tens of thousands to spare and buy a 2MB line for eircon. You are paying for a constant 2MB of bandwidth whether you use it or not.

If Esat are prepared to offer 64KB lines to people and not have a cap, then there is no question of subsidising. And don't forget there is no SLA offered with ADSL. Its not like they have to guarantee 99.99% uptime. Or even the full 64KB. Different ballgame.

zynaps

What about people who can't guarantee or fix their bandwidth usage trends in advance?

I mean, last month I probably downloaded a max of maybe 200 or 300 mb (for example, it's obviously hard to know) just by playing online games and... well, browsing websites/porn.

But this month, I've probably downloaded closer to 2 or 3 gigs.

This is all on a 56k nolimits line though, so obviously this would be magnified if I had a real connection.

So how would it work out for people using say ... 300 megs in one month, then 15 gigs the next?

You can't expect everyone to know in advance :P

Turner

People who have been on dial-up and move to broadband do tend to download alot at first alright. But soon the novelty wears off im sure.



Im just glad i went for the uncapped option.
Download

124124

When some one moves to broadband from dialup, I guess downloads will shoot up, and will remain at the higher rates and moving up gradually. Thats because once they figure out how to use, most will get addicted to Morpheus, Kazaa and other file sharing utilities.

Who wouldnt fancy watching a film before it even releases in here in Ireland? For example, I have checked out The SantaClaus 2 during the first week of this month, and it is yet to be released here in Ireland!!

Chips Lovell

I've i-stream and I've never really been happy about the cap. I mean I pay over €100 a month for the service and I think for that amount it's a bit much to ask. If I was paying a lot less, I wouldn't object so much.

Having said that, I've never exceeded it. I was file-sharing like crazy for the first few weeks and then the novelty wore off.

delop

Hi Guys,

Im a little confused here, Ive seen many complaints, and frustrations about Eircoms 3GB cap, I can perfectly understand these feelings.

But in myt humble opinion you are assuming that life is fair, or more importantly that Big Business cares about little old you! From talking to various Telecom Eireann (Eircom) IT employees over the years I can perfectly understand Eircoms policy makers attitude...... Remember in the late 80's we had a terrible PSTN, so Telecome Eireann and the Government went off and bought a brand new PSTN, which was the 3rd best network in europe for years, the System came with loads of features, Call answering and the whole range of voice line products that we now have for next to nothing. ISDN, like these voice services were all avalible in the early 90's at the flick of a switch. Why didnt we have them then? Very simple, most would agree that they coudl make money from these services.. But In TE's infinate wisdom they decided it was more trouble than it was worth.

Same story with ADSL High prices = low demand & less hassle. Imagine for a minute if Eircom said tomorrow, ok boys No Cap and €20 euro a month... Do you think many people would apply? Sure they would, in their thousands, Now imagine you are in eircom shoes, Thousands of applicants = thousands of complaints = thousands of problems.....

Does anyone agree with this?

Where as I can understand what Ive just said, I dont think it is right. But what really disappoints me about Irish people (im irish too :-) ) is that we complain about the price but still sign up for the service.

I would recomend that you not get this service if you disagree with their pricing structure, and maybe somewhere in the bowles of Eircom policy making machine , someone might notice no customer = no money = rethink & restructure of pricing....

just and opinion :-)

DC

we complain about the price but still sign up for the service

Because you can still save a lot of money, especially as a business. Adn there are few as greedy as an Irish business person.

I would recomend that you not get this service if you disagree with their pricing structure

If it saves money, you get it. You can't tell me a business is going to not get ADSL on principal. If it means ditching a €10K p.a. leased line, then it makes perfect sense.

Whatever €ircon's logic, 3GB is too small at the price.

Having said that, I've never exceeded it. I was file-sharing like crazy for the first few weeks and then the novelty wore off.

I agree with this. In the first month you will be downloading stuff you had identified in advance, e.g. service packs, some albums, etc. Btu once you have them all, the need for big downloads lessens.

I can see myself doing 30GB in the first month, then maybe 10GB and about 5GB thereafter.

Meh

Originally posted by delop
But in myt humble opinion you are assuming that life is fair, or more importantly that Big Business cares about little old you!

Big business should care about the opinions of its customers. If it doesn't, there's something very wrong with the company and the market in which it operates.

Now imagine you are in eircom shoes, Thousands of applicants = thousands of complaints = thousands of problems.....

And millions of euros in revenue. This argument is a red herring.

somewhere in the bowles of Eircom policy making machine, someone might notice no customer = no money = rethink & restructure of pricing....

No, Eircom would reason that no customers means no demand and drop DSL altogether. Remember that they had to be forced to introduce it in the first place...

Chips Lovell

I think delop's post asks interesting questions, but I disagree with some of his conclusions. He suggests that Eircom's attitude towards DSL is a little apathetic. While this may have a applied to a state owned company in the 80s and 90s, I doubt if it would apply to a publicly quoted company now, particularly at a management level.

I've spoken to a good few people in the telecoms sector over the past few years and several have suggested that high prices for new services are a way of controlling demand. I'm not saying this applies to Eircom, since I don't know their thinking, but if you apply this theory to them, it means they want to roll out DSL, but not all at once. High prices mean they'll profit from early adopters while controlling their work flow. I reckon we'll see cheaper packages in the future. Competition is there in the form of EsatBT and other non-DSL broadband providers. Once the public becomes more aware of the benefits of broadband, this competition may push prices down.

However, I'm not sure if we'll see prices at anything like UK levels. My understanding is that a smaller population with much lower densities than other countries doesn't lead to cheap telecoms.

Meh

Originally posted by el tonto
However, I'm not sure if we'll see prices at anything like UK levels. My understanding is that a smaller population with much lower densities than other countries doesn't lead to cheap telecoms.

We've had this argument before. It's wrong. See here for proof.

Estonia - US$ 35 - 512/128
Sweden: 2.5mb downstream 0.75 up for $50~€50
Iceland: $40 per month for 512/256 adsl

Iceland ffs. There's only about half a million people in the entire country.

Chips Lovell

Meh, I stand corrected. Thanks for that. I'm newer than most people here and haven't had a chance to read all previous posts. Must have fallen for the Eircom propaganda on that one, because I think it was from them I first heard it.

delop

Meh, you certinally sound passionate about these issues, and I can understand, I just hope you are not getting too stressed out with Eircom.... you may have seen this link, http://www.eircomtribunal.com/ , its more wishfull thinking, but Id love to see what woudl happen if there was a tribunal...

Years ago on a 2,400 kb/s modem I began to use the internet, But as I grew up in Kerry I had to ring dublin to connect to and ISp, in fact at the begining there was only a servicew set up by Trinity, called Easy something cant remember, but I find it kinda funny that they had a type of Cap back then too, they called them easyunits, were you bought so many a month to say on line, + a phone call to dublin, which was only viable at w/e but if you can remember that phone costs in 1990/91 for trunk calls were outreagous, I at the time prayed for somethign like a local POP... it took some time, but now the phone calls are cheeper and they have countrywide POP's, Eircom is just very slooooowww to change...

But rememer this next time you are at the bank, Who ****e8 phone costs up for the people of Ireland, the Banks, yep they abused Telecom Eireann and the public by connecting all the backs together fulltime from town to town, and then from county to county, TE had to introduce a pricing structure to combat this (someone please correct me if Im wrong - could be a fable)