What is the story with the apparant lack of musicians in Dublin?

Kell

Folks- as you all probably can see, I've posted two ads in the past for singers and guitar players that have resulted in no results. I am just wondering where all the musicians in Dublin are? Are you all in bands or play an instrument but not sure what calibre you are at yet?

I am so interested to find out what you think that I have posted a poll. Please reply so I can find out where all ye are.

knobbles

you left out one option in the voting category-
"Searching but having similar problems finding"

Treebeard

I'm in Wicklow and play guitar but fall into that catagory of not being sure if I'm good enough in my playing to be in a band. What kind of music do you play?

Drunk pirate

I'm a not bad at guitarist. I'm the best amongst my friends, reletives, ppl on streets, it's just I'm probably too young and I wanna start a band with one guitarist like a dimebag no#2

Kell

I am a drummer playing in a band that hasnt really got off the ground for lack of other musicians to take an interest. I am dissappointed in the lack of people who voted on the Poll as well. Lets see, we have had thirty views and only three posted a vote on the Poll. What does that say?

A word from the wise to those of you looking at this that can play but are unsure as to how good you are. The only way you'll really ever progress musically is to play with other musicians. You never know, you just might surprise yourself.

brianjoy

Have a look at my post on this board.

zynaps

It can be daunting when you read the boards out of curiosity, and haven't ever been in a band performing for real before, and all you see is "drummer needed, must have experience of at least 20-30 live gigs!!!" or "super experienced bassist needed" or "continuo harpsichord player needed, must be able to improvise on the spot and impress the whole band and read baroque chord notation"

Also, not everyone is a drummer/singer/bassist/lead guitarist/x86 programmer or good looking!
Nor does everyone always like the NIN/pixies/placebo/etc etc.

zynaps

Kell

Thats what biting the bullet and just going along for the rehearsal is all about. Forget the fact you've never played in a band before, forget that you might not have oodles of experience. A rehearsal will tell you one of two things- a) you're **** and you need to practise more or b) you're better than you thought you were. A good thing to do is work on a style of your own, something that cant be mistaken, whether it's a particular guitar riff or a well placed fill on drums, basically something that makes people sit up and go "sweet. We likes him/her". My fav and it's always worked is a well placed bass/tom triplet.

sparki74

We'll I'm a singer and a musician.... should do more with my voice though. It's very good (and I'm not a self promoter at all!!)

SO if you are looking for someone with a voice with a bit of a folk, jazz, blues influence.... aka a little Eva Cassidy and Sinead O'Conner etc etc ... then I'm your girl

zynaps

Ditto! Except.. with the piano and not so good... and without the Eva Cassidy and Sinéad O'Connor influences

Gotta love jazz though

kamobe

I'm a lone soul who finally stopped talking, and bought himself a guitar about a year ago and half ago. Taught myself how to play, doubt I'd be near good enough to play in a band, similiar with the singing. Gonna head busking soon enough with one of the lads for a laugh

zynaps

Did that on Grafton street with me sister once, when I was like.. 15
The fact that she was playing a cello drowned out my heinously crap playing on me acoustic guitar :P

It was a laugh though, good luck

kamobe

It was a laugh though, good luck

Cheers

Did that on Grafton street with me sister once, when I was like.. 15

I'm 21, left it a bit late to pick up the habit, but why not eh?

Lemming

Originally posted by zynaps
Did that on Grafton street with me sister once, when I was like.. 15
The fact that she was playing a cello drowned out my heinously crap playing on me acoustic guitar :P

It was a laugh though, good luck

You busjked on grafton st. zynaps?

Like meself - used to be in the string quartets (playing Viola). The likes of Champion/marathon sports/hmv h-a-t-e-d us and used to turn up their music really loud so it'd blare out of the shop doors and drown us out. We still made a killing

Anyway, to answer the thread, there are plenty of musicians in Dublin. You've just got to go talk to them. I, for example, play three instruments, hjave played concerts (not the same as gigs) all over Europe and a couple of gigs here in Dublin, but am not in any band/orchestra at present cause I'm not too fussed and am quite happy to be "free-lance" if you will. Talk to me (and many others I suspect) and make me interested and I may just join a band/whatever

Neil3030

Well i for one am in a band so....erm.....there ya go.

zynaps

Originally posted by Lemming
The likes of Champion/marathon sports/hmv h-a-t-e-d us and used to turn up their music really loud so it'd blare out of the shop doors and drown us out. We still made a killing

Actually when I was playing one of the songs (I really was a beginner back then, I even brought the music with me... not that I'm not a beginner really now ), I broke a string for the first time on that guitar, and had no idea how to change the string.
I ran down to Walton's on George's Street, which turned out to be closed, but the guys were still inside talking or something, and one came out and gave me a string for nothing because the till was closed
Then... I still didn't know how to put it on, so I ended up (dunno how) getting a security guard outside Thornton's on Grafton Street to show me (even went and got the pliers himself).

The two of us wrote a cello arrangement for Life on Mars (I'm big into chords on strings), which basically earned all the money...

I'm 20 now, and if I was arsed, I'd do it again (with at least one more person anyway).
You've just gotta go off and do it if you're into the idea!
Also, play to tourists and stuff. The crappy upside down plastic thing someone in a restaurant gave me to sit on (neither of us thought of chairs) started falling apart, and after the resulting me warning it and having it collapse a few times, I looked up and there were three times as many people standing around... so at least three people.

Kell

Originally posted by Lemming
Anyway, to answer the thread, there are plenty of musicians in Dublin.

Lemming- the point of this exercise was to actually get people to come out and say what they do or why there doesnt seem to be a plethora of musicians on the web, when I'd say one in five people that I know can play but wont. You mentioned that there are plenty of musicians out there but that I gotta go and talk to them. This thread has had 155 views and 16 replies including my own input. Where are the opinions or the input from the 139 other viewers? It just doesnt inspire confidence thats all.

Pauleeeeeeee

My personal experience has been:

If the musician is a nice bloke, you can have a laugh with him and is reliable and shows to practices on time all the time, they are gonna be an average or crap musician.

If the bloke is a great musician ( i've only ever encountered one and been in a band with one for a breif period, which shows their rarety ) then they are probably gonna be an unreliable prick.

You can't win....well...i can't anyway.

Lemming

Originally posted by Pauleeeeeeee
If the musician is a nice bloke, you can have a laugh with him and is reliable and shows to practices on time all the time, they are gonna be an average or crap musician.

If the bloke is a great musician ( i've only ever encountered one and been in a band with one for a breif period, which shows their rarety ) then they are probably gonna be an unreliable prick.

Whilst I realise this is your own personal experience Pauleeeeeee (hope I got all the 'e's in there ), I don't agree with it. Having been around the music scene for quite some time, I've encountered both sides of the coin.

I know good musicians that are bang on, and will turn up for a concert/gig at the drop of a hat for ****s and giggles, maybe a few free pints. If they get paid too for it, wayhay!

I also know musicians (one violin player in particular - no names though ***) who think they are god's gift to music, happen to be very good, and are absolute mercenary pr*cks.


Note: ***
Whilst he's certainly a cut above yer average musician, he is not what I would consider truly gifted. ie. like one violinist whom, out of 800 people, was picked to enter the Royal Guild-Halls of Music in London some years back.
- The problem is that he thinks he is

Giblet

Kell, some people look at the thread more than once, theres about 50 unique viewers maybe

miju

I think another reason why musicians don't join bands is because there currently exists in the Irish music scene a HUGE difference in musical opinion.

I myself have been trying to join a band for the last year. However, not one band has been interested simply cos I like the beatles, doors, kinks, the who and so on

BTW if anyone is looking for a guitarist / songwriter give me a PM and I'll give ya a shout back!

nesthead

i got into a band by answering a post on this very board, and i suck!

if i can do it, theres hope for you all!

Pauleeeeeeee

Thats the friggin point. Of course its easy to be in a band with people like yourself who suck.

I want one with talented people...thats ****in impossible to find.

RicardoSmith

Why don't you go to all the gigs you can find, and post ads in the colleges and in the music stores. Both places you find loads of musicians. Though if you find ones that will admit to being "talented" they won't be. Its hard to find like minded people to play in a band with. If was easy everyone would do it wouldn't they?

Define "talented" btw...

Pauleeeeeeee

Well, yeh, of course there are people who are just big headed and say they're brilliant or real talented when they are not but I find most people who say that about themselves are usually just being honest. Usually...unless they follow up the rest of the sentence with a 'but' or 'i'm practicin really hard at my solo's right now man and i think in another year or two i'll be great at them' ( yeh thats a big help to me right now! )

I define talent as good technical ability with and instrument and also a good creative ability.

RicardoSmith

So any one note guitar solos ala Neil Young are out? Are you looking for the Steve Vai types then are you? I'm not flaming I'm just curious on how you quantify "talented".

Have to say I wouldn't consider myself talented. I can make up a decent riff (others say its decent anyway) and shred a bit (I can use my pinky whooo). But I wouldn't have the ear of other people I know who can hear a tune then a month later work it out from memory in about 5 mins on pretty much any instrument. It takes me a while to work out the bones of a song, and lots of practise to get the right feel for it. While I can read music a little bit for other instruments but I never bothered learning how to read quitar music. Can read tab but not especially quickly. Can jam with other people and have had a few sessions with mates for a laugh, but wouldn't have enough experience to gig without a lot of practise. Also I wouldn't know most of the music other people would know as I really only learnt how to play stuff I liked and whatever whomever I was jamming with would play aswell. So I'd have to learn what everyone else is playing. I know what sounds right and how to find a workable scale (for soloing) in what ever song I'm playing but I couldn't tell you the key or the scale that it was. So in a nutshell, I'm not talented

However for what you are looking for I reckon you should define more rigidly what you are looking for in your ad. For example Must have good ear, able to sight read, Playing for 5yrs or more, must have giging experience etc. Some song writing experience or something like that. Then get people to send you a demo tape of something the've done. As anyone with that level of ability or experience has bound to have recorded themselves at some stage or another.

Anyway thats my 2cents.

Pauleeeeeeee

Actually, I'm not really a soloing kinda man ( although one or two songs i've written have got solos in them ). I can play very fast stuff and stuff which requires good technical ability but the music i'd want to play in a band would not be really based around solos....more complicated riffs i suppose.

Also, I feel that people who have good technical ability at an instrument are more freely able to express their idea and be more creative musically ( yeh yeh....dont bring up christ moore ).

If you want to know what I'm looking for exactly just look at the post on this forum I've made in searc of musicians or a band.

Maybe I'm aiming to high...but I'm sick of being in mediocre bands..I wan't to be in a very good band that will get somewhere and I'm just not settling for average anymore.

RicardoSmith

being mediocre doesn't seem to get in the way of all those boy/girl bands though....

Pauleeeeeeee

yeh but thats pop music and they are better looking than me and I want to create GOOD music

Lemming

It is entirely possible to be surrounded by what would be considered good musicians, but in a mediocre band.

Mediocre does not necessarily equal lack of technical ability.

Remember that before you decide that someone is "useless" to you as a musician.

Pauleeeeeeee

I'm well aware of that but as I said, with a decent technical ability usually comes a better creative ability and ability to be 'tight' as a band. With those two factors more often than not your going to have a better than mediocre band.

I know thats not always the case but I'm sure that it more often than not is

JustHalf

There's no option for me.

I can play, though not as well as I could ( stopped playing for two years... dunno why ). I can also write pretty well. I'm confident enough to be in a band, but I'd much rather flesh out my material first... enough to show a couple of musical friends it and see what they think, and work from there. Basically, get my old material, improve it, and make a demo tape to try and drum up interest.

Pauleeeeeeee

Just out of interest what would this demo tape be like? Just You playing guitar?

Also what would you do with the tape? where would you send it?

RicardoSmith

Obviously any advert requesting a demo would kinda need an address on it no? (loosing the thread there were you) Well if you had gigged or played a few sesions the tape would be of this and you on the drums/guitar/singing/playing the ferret/ whatever was your "talent" I guess.

Incidentally recording yourself and listening to it is well known method of seeing how rubbish you are and seeing (hearing) ways of improving. Because you never think you sound like you actually do sound like. It kinda like hearing your voice on a answering machine. Sounds weird and you think thats not me, but everyone else says thats so is you. If you get my meaning. I'm probably rambling, its getting past my bedtime....

Pauleeeeeeee

That why i don't record myself singing:D

when i record myself playing guitar whoever...I sound like I think i sound...which is a good thing.

Kell

Pauleeeeeeee,

when you free to hook up for a jam then? Musically speaking you sound what I am looking for (i.e. music based around complicated rhythm sections rather than around solos'). We already have a **** hot bassist and a good guitarist/vocalist/singer so if you are interested drop me a PM. Tastes are many and varied.

JustHalf

Originally posted by Pauleeeeeeee
Just out of interest what would this demo tape be like? Just You playing guitar?

Also what would you do with the tape? where would you send it?

Me playing guitar and singing, with drums / bass / strings / piano / keyboard layed down on seperate tracks on my computer.

I'd give the tape (CD actually) to a couple of mates who've been playing / writing for longer and see what advice they had.

dunnecp

for what it's worth I have been playing guitar for 8 years, I can listen to most songs and work them out very quickly, my timing with other musicians is very good too and I can also read music and have written some good tunes so if anyone wants to jam let me know, I've posted Lead Guitarist available on the forum fyi.

cokacabeyena

i am a female musician itching to start new project/s with goodmusic lubbers with fire in yir bellies

the band that i have been playing in for the last 6/7 months is now defunct-band members moving out of the country -due to work commitments etc.which is a shame because we were actually starting to get good as they say and were writing 2/3 songs each time we rehearsed

I am very interested to hear from BOTH FEMALE and MALE musicians who would be interested in playing with the intention of forming a decent band.

i am heavily influenced ny the pixies/breeders/blondie/le tigre anything with a kick and a lilt.

rehearsal space is not a problem

give me a call 086 8520625 Cara
or cokacabeyena@yahoo.com

half_dead

Well I dunno where all these Musicians are but here's my 2cents on the subject

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=108671

HD

Specky

Well seeing as everyone's putting in their 2c worth....

...I look at pretty much every "wanted" ad that comes up on boards but I don't think I've actually replied to any of them.

I'm not in a band, haven't been for a while now. I'd like to get back into a band, I've played a fair bit so it isn't really lack of confidence or experience (although I'm a little rusty at the moment...ebbs and flows of enthusiasm etc), I have a pretty busy workload of other things but I'm committed enough to be able to make a small gigging band work....I'm also a meticulous (some might argue psychotic) time keeper and always arrive where I'm supposed to be on time (or more usually early)....may require electro-convulsive therapy to break this habit.....

So why don't I reply? Well probably because I just don't see many things that particularly appeal.

Reason #1 - I've been playing for longer than many people contributing here have been alive. I'm not the greatest player in the world but dust off the rustyness and I'm not bad. Many people looking for musicians are (I suppose understandably) looking for people in their own age group and that tends to be in the sub-20 area. Now I don't give a tinker's handkerchief how old other people in the band are but I get the feeling a lot of other people do.

Reason #2 - Musical style. I started out in orchestral music drifted into experimental stuff and jazz then popped into more mainstream blues and rock. I want is to play with other musicians who are interested in melodic improvisation, putting different slants on familiar themes, even tone poem type things.

Not a huge market for that kind of thing I know but out of this primal ooze perhaps something good could evolve.

Reason #3 - Don't want to be in a band full of egos, just want people who can play a bit and actually want to make the end result sound good. Sorry if this offends Pauleeeee but a band is about playing together. Mediocre musicians who play properly arranged music that's within their abilities and rehearse enough to do it consistantly sound just fine. Life just doesn't deliver groups of ultra-talented, ultra-committed musicians in the same time and space who all want to play with you. As the Stones once said you can't always get what you want, you have to work with what you've got and I believe that is what talent is all about. Being able to express yourself with the tools at hand.

Listen to Chuck Berry, BB King, John Lee Hooker, they're technically crap but people generally don't argue about their talents.

Anyway, I think that's 4c worth.

I haven't answered the poll because I don't think it's a very well worded question and don't agree with any of the given answers.

If anyone wants to chat about musical possibilities PM me. I play mostly guitar these days but also blues harp and depending upon which way I bash my emouchure into shape either trumpet or sax/flute

The Smircher

There are plenty of excellent musicians in Dublin, but they can be hard to track down because
(a) Not everyone is online very often
(b) Some are gigging every night so no interest in getting involved with something else
(c) Shows like Riverdance have soaked up a lot of the trad musicians around town so they can be away for long periods of time.
(d) May have their own projects that they are devoting time to.

Like Specky, I have been playing for *ahem* quite some time and I know what I'm interested in and what I'm not. I've got my own band on the go, plus some session work so I tend to be choosy about what I get involved in as my family time is very valuable to me.

I've been told that I play well, I just do what I do.
I don't have an ego, and I think it's important to get along with those that you work with. Occasionally sparks have to fly, but that can be a good thing if it sorts issues out.

I'm probably rambling a bit here, but there are musicians out there....you just have to know where to find them. You'd be amazed how quickly you can get involved on the scene if you can just find the doorway in.

The main thing is, enjoy what you do!

desertcircus

I noticed that for a lot of people talking on this thread, talent and ability seem to boil down to whether they can play a Hendrix solo off the top of their head or blast sixteenth-note bass drum rolls.

That's not talent, that's technical ability. Any bastard can get that if you lock them in a room for long enough with nothing but a guitar and a loaf of bread.

The real talent lies in NOT playing that sort of technical wizardry. Who gives a toss if I can play triplets and straight eigths on separate limbs? Who cares if my brother can do two handed tapping on an acoustic bass? Neither of those tricks are any damn use in a song.

The real talent is being able to do those things and instead play a simple part which suits the song far better than any bizarre flash trick. For my money, Kurt Cobain kicks the **** out of Steve Vai.

I'd even go so far as to say that an excess of technical ability is a bad thing. Most of us only have a certain amount of free time, and any twenty-year-old who can play like Van Halen or Reeves Gabrels has been spending too much time in his room with his guitar instead of a basement with a bassist, drummer and singer. The important part of being a musician is knowing how best to serve the song, and that's something which can't be learned from a book and a CD-ROM.

Giblet

You need song writing ability, which alot of bands in Dublin dont have, and with that they dont have the technical ability to back up what ideas they do have.

Thats the one thing I have noticed from years of gigging. And it's why my band pretty much blows them all away, because we have ability both in writing and technical, and we don't have droning long live sets with no changes and straight forward rock*, not blowing my own horn here, but jesus I fucking know what I sound like and what I'm capable of.

I think improv is one of the best assets you can have, especially in live shows. I don't go around playing stupidly fast scales, or whatever, and I certainly dont use it in any recordings I've done, but knowing them will help you add more to a song even if you only use two notes out of it.

There are plenty of musicians everywhere, but believe me, from my experience they're mostly terrible and lack experience.


* otranome being a random example as they're currently on winamp, in no way picking on them..... Terrible live show + cd entry, i can see what fanbase they have dying off.

Specky

I think what desertcircus is saying (and Giblet to and extent) is along the lines of the old addage, "to the man who's only tool is a hammer every problem looks like a nail".

Technique is in the hands, creativity is in the head. You want to be able to express something but you need to be able to call upon your hands to do the business without having to think too hard about it, especially live when the opportunity for a re-take when your fingers crash into each other isn't available!

For plenty of people the head never asks the hands to blaze down the neck in some sort of 32nd note power dive. There's nothing in the book that says you have to play fast to be creative. For some people the hardest thing in the world is to play something accurately AND slowly. Knowing your scales though, that's a different thing. Scales and arpegios are really valuable for building dexterity, fast or slow, and for improvisation. Get them into your hands.

Bands that use much improv live outside of jazz are rare I've found. I think this is about risk limitation and the desire to not bore the public too much...droning long live solos generally don't appeal unless exceptionally well executed...

Not really sure where the song writing ability point fits in. Sure, if you're an "originals" band then it obviously helps but there are plenty of bands banging out covers and happy to do so. What I would say here is that I value the ability to do something different with songs, not just different from the original but also think about changing how you play the song to make it different each time you play it. That requires that you actually listen to yourselves and the other people in the band and react to what they may be trying to do.

Amazing how many times in the past in bands I've had a little idea for a rhythmic change or something in the middle of a song but when you try to make it happen everyone else just batters you back to the beat again...

Giblet

Thats the worst thing, staying in a given rhythm or timing or structure for a whole song, I try to keep away from the whole intro verse chorus verse chorus thing.

I do alot of improv on solos or a riff that has just came into my head at the end of a song, and the whole bands plays off it, we kind of know each other well enough to be able to do it, but a lot of bands can't do it, and they will get punished for it if they mess up a song live and can't cover it up.

I couldn't imagine just doing covers all day, kind of inhibits creativity if all you doing is a heavy version of "The Fields Of Athenry" heh.

For the last month I've been trawling through demos after demos of nearly every irish band mentioned on this site, and only about 2% of it is anyway decent, but alot of these bands are getting alot of coverage through gigsmart and have places on the compilation cd.
Which leads me to this, you could still make something out of nothing!

Oh an my band is not situated centrally in Dublin, about 20 miles away, so fuck all coverage for me, its a hassel to get to gigs, and they're usually crap, hopefully some more studio time will help me get something solid out there:)

Specky

a heavy version of "The Fields Of Athenry" heh.

....everybody up for the national anthem lads....

a riff that has just came into my head at the end of a song, and the whole bands plays off it

yeah, actually jamming. Another rapidly disappearing art. The ability to jam well is a lot to do with tightness IMHO, if you can jam well it proves you're listening to each other and you have to do that to play tight.

On your point about the quantity and quality of bands around that's got a lot to do with good old fashioned market forces. What puts bums on seats in venues. The public are not so picky when it comes to the quality of what you offer up to them .

This is not a new phenomena. It is a complete pile of $hite for those of us who believe we're doing something a bit special and for those who have real talent but it is the way of the world unfortunately, and you either learn to manipulate the system to your own advantage or you work outside of the system. Beating the system is not an option.

Giblet

Guess I'm gonna have to find a way to "fit right in"

Never going to work.

People seem to be naturally critical though, worse than me I think that I can JUSTIFY my comments , just because they don't like the fact a band is doing well, especially when they're good, must make 'em mad eh.

Like Bono said eh "In America everyone wants to be the guy with the house on the hill, In Ireland they all look at him and say, I'm going to get that bastard"

Specky

Yep. Very true.

Tall poppy syndrome I believe they call it in some parts.

Not really on topic but the other thing that gets me about the Irish psyche in general is this thing where everyone goes around moaning on about how terrible it is that such and such got away with evading his tax or re-zoning his land or whatever, but give the same person access to an off shore loop hole or to a dodgy councillor to get their house built and they nearly take your arm off.

Anyway, sounds like you've got a good band. Must drop by and have a listen some time.

lollip

Does anybody know why there seems to be a distinct lack of people looking for female singers..... it really is discouraging... I havebeen looking for over a year now and to be honest I just couldn't be arsed any more...

Ronika

Hey I agree. Nobody seems to want a female singer even though were the better singers- Heh heh