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[BBC] Net protests mount in Ireland

  • 04-11-2002 11:57am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 430 ✭✭


    Thought it best to start a new thread....

    from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2377447.stm
    Net protests mount in Ireland

    By Jane Wakefield, BBC News Online technology staff

    Consumers are fed up with paying per minute for net services in Ireland and urgent action needs to be taken if the so-called Celtic Tiger is to stay competitive, say critics.
    Both IrelandOffline, a campaign group lobbying for unmetered net access, and telecom operators desperate to introduce new services to their customers, want to see radical changes soon.
    The government is backing the campaign with Dermot Ahern, Minister for Communications in Ireland, calling for flat-rate internet access to be introduced in the Irish Republic as a matter of priority.
    He wants to see an overhaul of the Irish telecoms watchdog, to give it radical new powers to push through changes which could see Ireland's incumbent phone company, Eircom, forced to introduce unmetered access early next year.

    Corporate frustration

    It will not be a moment too soon, say campaigners.
    Currently consumers and small businesses that use the internet must pay per minute for online time rather than having unlimited access for a flat-rate monthly cost as in the UK.
    Some of the larger firms that have made their base in Ireland have overcome the lack of reliable and fast connections by having their own networks installed.
    But increasingly high-profile firms such as Microsoft are speaking out about the lack of high- speed networks.
    "US multinationals, which form the backbone of the Irish economy, are thinking long and hard about locating in Ireland because the infrastructure just isn't there," said Una McGirr, spokeswoman for ESAT BT, one of the main telecom operators in the republic.
    Broadband barely registers on the net radar in Ireland with less than 2,000 installations to date.
    In a recent OECD study Ireland came second bottom of a worldwide league table of broadband connections.

    Unmetered priority

    "For the so-called Celtic Tiger and a nation aspiring to be the e-hub of Europe this is a little contradictory," said Ms McGirr.
    The biggest priority for IrelandOffline is to get narrowband unmetered access - introduced in the UK two years ago - to Irish consumers.
    "The Irish perception of going online is governed by the fact they pay per minute. Consumers are used to short sessions," explained David Long, Chairman of IrelandOffline.
    A technology graduate himself, Mr Long is considering moving out of the Republic due to the poor level of connectivity.
    "After my state sponsored education in a field that the has been prioritised by the Irish Government to ensure Ireland operates a knowledge economy, I see far greater opportunity to put my skills to work in more connected countries," he said.
    His comments fly counter to those expressed by Michael Ahern, Minister of State for Trade and Employment who told BBC News Online that net services were making a radical difference to Irish communities and preventing emigration.
    This view is "worryingly inaccurate" said Mr Long.
    The situation currently being experienced by providers and consumers in Ireland has striking similarities to the campaign in the UK three years ago which led to BT rolling out unmetered access in the UK in the summer of 2000.
    Eircom declined to comment as to why it has, to date, failed to offer unmetered services to operators and consumers.

    Time to listen

    "Eircom has cited congestion of the network and not enough demand as the arguments against unmetered," said Mr Long.
    BT-owned ESAT is just one of the telecom operators challenging Eircom to offer a wholesale unmetered product.
    "There is huge pent-up demand and our ears are sore from listening to our own customers. For Eircom to say there is no demand is condescending and naïve," said Ms McGirr.
    "Eircom has buckets of capacity so that is not a problem either," she added.
    The need for flat-rate unmetered net access is the most important debate in the net industry in Ireland at the current time and Eircom cannot afford not to listen, said Ms McGirr.
    "There is such strong demand and unprecedented pressure that Eircom won't be able to turn their backs on it," she said.
    Operators are in the early stages of negotiations with Eircom.

    Nice one :)

    Tim


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    In case the BBC Online thread is a bit long...I am sure a mod can whip all of these together anyway..... heres is a recap of what has happened in the past week.

    1. BBC publishes press statement from Minishter Ahern 261002 .... oh dear , what was the minishter on when he said all this.

    2. Various IoffL affiliated persons point to the inconsistencies between the article and reality.

    3. BBC graciously and comprehensively corrects the false impression it gave a week before with This Article 041102. At 2PM on the 041102 it is the TOP Technology story on the BBC News Website Here .

    Now if some of our own 'journalists' were as professional and thorough then we might not be campaigning for a late 20th century Telecomms system in the 21st ...but then the BBC wouldn't have a story to publish would it.

    M


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭Paddy20


    Sheer magic,

    Lets just hope that the Irish and International media pick up on this article, and give it appropriate newspaper coverage plus "Radio & TV airtime?.

    The power of the pen and the IOFFL membership EH!

    Get under the nearest desk, "Eircom Rat" Someone is coming too get you.

    Yours,

    paddy20;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭MDR


    Now is some of our own 'journalists' were as professional and thorough then we might not be campaigning for a late 20th century Telecomms system in the 21st ...but then the BBC wouldn't have a story to publish would

    You don't read the SBPost then ?
    3. BBC graciously and comprehensively corrects the false impression it gave a week before with This Article 041102

    Should read

    3. BBC graciously and comprehensively corrects the false impression it gave a week before with This Article 041102 (with quite a bit of help from Dave).

    :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    nahh the Sunday Tribune

    who are not good at correcting themselves especially when wrong

    M


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,573 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    sent the link to my td's for what good it'll do me


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Dustaz


    What a great article. She sets out the whole situation very simply and (from my angle anyway) refuses to be confused by spin and draws the correct conclusions. This article is so informative ive emailed it to a few people already.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭scojones


    great article. Looks like we are moving slowly but surely. If only the likes of rte.ie would do something like this. Not likely seeing as Eircom sponsor their weather, -i think-. :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭vinnyfitz


    "Eircom declined to comment as to why it has, to date, failed to offer unmetered services to operators and consumers. "

    Surely Eircom could have found somebody in their PR department to talk to the mighty Beeb?

    I also like the link to the IOFFL website alongside the story!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭MDR


    Surely Eircom could have found somebody in their PR department to talk to the mighty Beeb?

    Eh, we haven't offered unmetered services because we make to much money from having metered services ... :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭MDR


    now if we could get some of the big media outlets here to pick up on this story

    am working on that at the moment,
    watch this space 'cos I will need help our new 'Press Pack' in a week or two.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭scojones


    this story was featured on net news on 2fm today at 3:50. He quoted from the bbc page and mentioned all the important points made on the page. He also said he too was sick of paying by the minute for net access. gareth o callihan (can't spell) was the dj. He said the things david long said about ahern being inaccurate ect. This is a big step, non?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,025 ✭✭✭yellum


    The BBC is one of the most respected news organisations in the world. Its a coup getting on to the BBC. Already other organisations are taking notice. Way to go !

    ( See I can be non-negative at times )


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,025 ✭✭✭yellum


    Can this thread be merged with the other BBC related threads ? The Drudge report one and the Beeb one posted by Muck ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    Do it in strictly chronological order and then sticky it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 36,634 ✭✭✭✭Ruu_Old


    very cool, i heard the radio show at work. It mentioned IOLF (who had been mentioned a lot of the show) and that companys are sick of paying per minute, like Microsoft they said are frustrated with lack of broadband and high speed networks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,439 ✭✭✭ando


    Originally posted by Ruu
    very cool, i heard the radio show at work. It mentioned IOLF (who had been mentioned a lot of the show) and that companys are sick of paying per minute, like Microsoft they said are frustrated with lack of broadband and high speed networks.

    yep, i also heard it

    Gareth was pretty confident saying we will have flat rate by spring


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭vinnyfitz


    Mmmm

    Lets work it out:
    Directive not issued till new Commission in place.
    So lets say 10 December.
    21 day consultation period overlaps Xmas so will probably be extended.
    So lets say consultation period closes 12 January.
    Minister reviews responses to consultation and decides (a) no legal impediment to issuing Directive
    So lets say Directive finally issued to Reg Com on 1 February
    or (b) Minister finds consultation throws up legal impediments to issuing Directive and asks Attorney General or other legal experts for advice in which case lets assume process delayed by e.g. 12 months.

    Anyway lets assume result (a) so the Reg Com get their instructionsd in the post on 1 February next.

    Reg Com immediatly set about preparing consultation paper explaining how they propose to mandate Flat Rate (will they consult on the maximum price at which it can be offered at this stage? Will they consult on whether it has to be offered nationwide all at the same time? ).
    Lets say they have a paper ready to publish on 1 March (optimistic)
    Consultation paper issued to operators and consumer interests for comment (Say deadline of 2 weeks since it can be argued that the issue is allready being widely discussed)

    Lets say deadline for responses: Paddy's weekend.

    Regcom review responses and decide to issue formal decision very fast i.e. within 4 weeks.
    Lets say 15 April.

    What deadline will they impose on Eircom to implement the decision? Lets be optimistic once again and assume they rule that Eircom should be able to sort out all the technology. billing and marketing dilemmas within 90 days.
    Lets say Flat Rate implemented Mid July 2003.

    Sorry Garrett no spring offerings I'm afraid.


    I'm not trying to be negative here but if the Department and RegCom are going to cover their backs they need to make sure they operate a controversial decision like this within the law.

    In fact the scenario I'm speculating about is quite an optimistic one - rember I'm assuming Eircom won't challenge this in the courts at any stage.


    :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭flamegrill


    Originally posted by ando
    yep, i also heard it

    Gareth was pretty confident saying we will have flat rate by spring

    BY SPRING????

    It should be available tommorrow, as there is fúck all that has to be done to introduce flat rate nationwide.

    its all a big load of codswallop.

    Wan 2fm and respect to the BBC for the coverage.

    i can see DSL in the not too distant future now... :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭PiE



    Eircom declined to comment as to why it has, to date, failed to offer unmetered services to operators and consumers.

    I like that, it's sounds very damning in the context of the story :]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 36,634 ✭✭✭✭Ruu_Old


    have Eircom EVER replied or commented on their reason not to introduce flat rate, apart from the lamo ... theres no market for that type o' thing response :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by Ruu
    have Eircom EVER replied or commented on their reason not to introduce flat rate, apart from the lamo ... theres no market for that type o' thing response :p
    Previously, they have responded in the Irish papers about lack of demand, difficulty in providing service etc. Obviously, they could not think of anything to say to a journalist who is probably takes home broadband for granted, let alone flat-rate Internet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭Paddy20


    Well, I have faxed the full story too all" local media" in Donegal.

    Just hope they use it, I have this strange feeling that they will ?

    Yours,

    paddy20;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,025 ✭✭✭yellum


    And now the Bloggers have picked it up.

    http://www.kirbycom.com/archives/000160.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,025 ✭✭✭yellum


    Lets try and BoingBoing it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭scojones


    Originally posted by daveirl
    this seems good! Tell me more about the net news segment. I don't listen to 2fm

    pm sent


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭saik


    Eircom has cited congestion of the network and not enough demand as the arguments against unmetered,"

    ahahha surely the arguments cited are contradictory? zZz.

    hope I haven't missed something there...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40 Sticky


    There is currently a link to this article on the front page of Wired, in their 'Elsewhere Today' section (2nd story down).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    Excellent, i detect the faint note of a minister with his panties too tight shouting at senior civil servants -- HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN!!!!



    we hav em by the ballls


    to quote 'grab em by the balls and their hearts and minds will follow..'


    anyone know dunphy's email -- anytime i mail - get feck all...he hates eircon


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Fallschirmjager


    apparently, Tommy Broughan is the new labour guy anyone know his email so we can get him to raise it in the Dail...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Dangger


    anyone know his email

    Could you not phone him?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Originally posted by saik
    ahahha surely the arguments cited are contradictory? zZz.

    hope I haven't missed something there...
    Now that you mention it...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭vinnyfitz


    Ireland Gets Fired Up

    Paying a flat rate for Internet services is par for the course in the United States, but in Ireland consumers often pay for service by the minute. IrelandOffline, a lobbying group seeking flat-rate services, is pushing for reform, according to BBC Online. And Ireland's Minister for Communications is supportive of a flat rate for the Irish Republic. "US multinationals, which form the backbone of the Irish economy, are thinking long and hard about locating in Ireland because the infrastructure just isn't there," Una McGirr, spokeswoman for ESAT BT, one of Ireland's main telecom operators told BBC Online.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 36,634 ✭✭✭✭Ruu_Old


    We really are making a heck of a progess here, well done all :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭pork99


    This is like living in East Berlin before the wall came down

    You know everything is crap - you can see foreign media which tends to confirm this - all the while the Communist Party / Eircom is telling you everything is just fine.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭David C


    Just found this story, published today:
    Geek.com - Irish citizens demand unmetered narrowband
    Irish Internet users are growing weary of metered Internet access. While U.S. citizens have enjoyed unlimited access to the Internet via dial-up connections for several years, the concept only hit the U.K. two years ago, and isn't offered by Ireland's telco. Ireland is struggling to create of itself a sort of digital hub for Europe, but infrastructure issues such as this are troubling....
    ..more:
    http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2002Nov/gee20021105017154.htm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,025 ✭✭✭yellum


    Message to the Government:

    Okay lads, this is the story, more and more news organisations are reproducing this damning BBC Story. To quote Tim on the RTE comments page:
    We really are so far behind the rest of Europe. €41 for access per DAY in Ireland, while for that price per MONTH, the rest of Europe gets ten times the speed.
    Tim, Cork

    Now all your marketing has made foreign companies and people coming to this country think this is some swanky digital island. Its not and the foreign media is now realising this. How soon before big business cops on to this ? You are going to lose a lot of investment over this and it is your own fault. You are going to ruin our country and we will remember this, we are already documenting everything you've done.

    The dumb measures you have taken to fix this problem are not working and are just costing the taxpayer ( Your BOSS ) even more money. The time for worrying is well over, its time to panic.

    Wel all know broadband connectivity is going to be universally available for the rest of the world within a year or two. Its going to be taken for granted by all the world. It will be as commonplace as running water and electricity, but not in Ireland. Ireland is in the dark ages now for cheap internet access and it won't be emerging from it anytime soon.

    Welcome to Irelands Famine of the 22nd century, but instead of no spuds we'll have no cheap fast net access, and as well as people leaving to go to other countries over it you'll have companies leaving too.

    Wake the Fuck Up Ireland !


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,025 ✭✭✭yellum


    Originally posted by vinnyfitz
    Mmmm

    Lets work it out:
    Directive not issued till new Commission in place.
    So lets say 10 December. ............
    ..
    ..

    What deadline will they impose on Eircom to implement the decision? Lets be optimistic once again and assume they rule that Eircom should be able to sort out all the technology. billing and marketing dilemmas within 90 days.
    Lets say Flat Rate implemented Mid July 2003.

    Sorry Garrett no spring offerings I'm afraid.


    I'm not trying to be negative here but if the Department and RegCom are going to cover their backs they need to make sure they operate a controversial decision like this within the law.

    ..... rember I'm assuming Eircom won't challenge this in the courts at any stage.


    :(

    Very very true Vinny. So if its July on a fastracked No Eircom objection route we can be sure its going to be another long time before we see this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 749 ✭✭✭Dangger


    So if its July on a fastracked No Eircom objection route we can be sure its going to be another long time before we see this.

    Don't forget that FRIACO is still being negotiated in the normal run of things aside from the directive. Nevada Tele.com and EsatBT are in regular meetings with Eircom. Apparently it is progressing well. Not saying it will happen tomorrow though. But it may make the adherence to the directive not necessary, as the writing appears to be on the wall, but its the very presence of the directive that is the weight.


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