buying a computer

gonker

Ok I am a complete novice. Santa is bringing a computer to a 9 year old 7 year old and 5 year old. What specs do I look out for. Saw a iQon Phillips for 1,249. 1.7Ghz processor 256Mbof memory 60 GB hard disk 64MB onboard graphics dvd and movie player software. Its for me to go on the net too.
Is this anygood. Santa will have to buy from a shop as such. Can anybody help.
thanks
gonk

mneylon

By the sounds of things you probably want something that can be used for games/multimedia/internet... but you probably don't want to replace it in a year.

It's not an easy thing to choose, as the choices are rather confusing to put it mildly.

IMHO you should:

- make sure that you can expand (ie. lots of free slots etc.)
- Get as big a hard disk as possible
- Don't skimp on the RAM. Even if the chip is the fastest on the market without RAM and a decent hard disk it's useless

DO NOT buy something just because the salesman tries to convince you with their 'wonderful' software bundle. 9 times out of 10 the software bundles are full of junk.

If you can find a 'geeky' friend to go with you and hassle the salesman with awkward questions.

conZ

you should write off to santa and ask him to build you a computer...

try here..
the internet is probably the best place to buy.

All Irish btw.
http://www.marx-computers.com/

http://www.itdirect.ie/quotations.asp

http://www.jaguarcompsys.ie/

them three will build you a better spec PC than the one you were looking at and deliver it for hundreds less.

also you will probably find someone on these boards that will build you one.

Dr_Teeth

It looks like a fine spec for a budget machine these days Gonker, though I've no idea what Iqon's build quality or after-sales support is like, perhaps someone else on this board has some experience of them.

The only issue I can see is with the graphics card - if the kids want to play some of the newer 3D games the onboard graphics might not be up to it. Either the game won't work at all or will run very slowly.

Teeth.

PPC

iQon machines are good machines.

It should be a grand machine for the family as i don't think they're going to be resource hogs at those ages.

Do you want the pc to play a few family games and go on the net or
Do you want it to play high detailed games and do really intensive stuff?

Its a grand machine for the family.
60gb of space will do you for ages.
The graphics card seems to be decent enough, will play most of the games at normal detail but not on "super high" detail.
Ram seems ok but 512Mb might do you a bit better with windows xp.

Originally posted by blacknight
If you can find a 'geeky' friend to go with you and hassle the salesman with awkward questions.

Pfft wrong thing todo. don't do this, you'll just annoy them, your better off asking saying here what you need and we can help you with it.

Also shop around, you can always get bargins.
Stay away from HP, Packard Bell and Compaq as many other people will tell you.

Dell and Gateway are ok but buy locally if you can cause its easier to return to get fixed.

Anymore Q's just pop em in here

gonker

thanks for all the info. I saw this machine in the esb. it is also on Datacom online. irish company. Has anybody bought from esb or data? I think it will be basic games and encylopedia stuff maybe printing out c**p you know drawings they have done on paint or whatever. there is a cdwriter and a dvd on it so they can watch dvds on it and i can back up any games they get so they dont wreck the originals . Can you think of any questions I could as k so that i dont sound like a complete loser???
thanks
gonk

MiCr0

details here

New Silver Chassis design
- Intel Celeron Processor 1.7 GHz
- 10/100 LAN (Broadband ready)
- 256mb DDR RAM
- 64mb DDR Graphics (shared)
- 5.1 Channel Surround Sound
- DVD Drive
- CDRW Drive
- 40GB HDDm
- Logitech Internet Keyboard
- Monitor (17’ Real Flat Screen)
- 56k V92 Modem
- Microsoft Windows XP
- 10 X Title Premium Software Bundle
- New 3 year warranty.
Price: €1,299.00
Model: 1700
Product Code: 6276002


FREE DIGITAL CAMERA AND HOLIDAY VOUCHER.

Sounds v.like the system you quoted only with a smaller hd

VOGAD

There are actually quite a few Irish sites out there worth looking at these are probably the best value for your spec

www.elara.ie (dublin)
www.marx-computers.com (dublin)
www.e-stock.ie (cork)

They have pretty good specs and prices that dont rip you off like the shops

Good Luck!

BigEejit

If the specs that MiCr0 quoted are the same as the one you were looking at then keep away, for the same money you can get a better spec machine of any of the companies listed in the other posts, or like was mentioned in another quote get it from someone local who you can call round when stuff stops working as expected...

If the machine is to be used for games, that graphics setup will not be up to the job (AFAIK when they say shared ram for graphics it means that you are actually using the system ram, which is slow(ish) and also reduces the amount of ram that the microprocessor has to play with), otherwise it should be fine for 2D stuff like surfing d'internet.

It says premium software bunble .. whats in it? .. that is basically what you will be using for drafting documents etc... Micro$oft stuff is good but expensive, .. you can get free software off d'internet (Open Office 1) but that will take a bit of time on a 56k modem:rolleyes: (I've never used it myself, but I hear that its good)

Woden

Hi i got my first computer from the esb two years ago, and it is the one i am typing on right now. However i have put quite a bit of money into it and i dont think i would buy from them again go to somewhere that only sells computers and isnt pc world. Does the fact that you are looking in the esb mean you are thinking of hire purchase and paying it back over five years? As i wouldnt recommend that either theres still three years left on this baby and i want a whole new next year and i think i would build. Note sure if this is any help what so ever but just to let you know my experience, i was a complete novice also when i got this. one more piece of advice don't buy a dell there a rip-off.

BigEejit

I just looked at www.datacom-online.com (in Cork) and they sell a iQon Laptop for 1600 euro (Pentium 4 1.8Ghz other specs similar) so I would suggest that the other machine (from iQon as well) you were looking at for 1300 euro is a rip off

gonker

had a look at all the websites. May as well have shown me a haystack and told me to find the needle . I am buying with cash so no finance needed . What are the customer service like with all these companies? They all sound wonderful, but are they???? I live in the midlands portlaoise area. You all say to buy local but as far as i can from the midlands board the local places are not great . Also what printers would you recommend taking into account three children and their usage of ink cartridges......Also a friend told me that the internet connection on our road averages between 1400bps and 1600bps.. That is slow isnt it??
gonk

red vex

hi. i am thinking of buying a laptop and im wonderin:
when would be the best time of year to buy 1
is the dell smart 250 really good value (why is it so cheap compared to the 8200 series)

MiCr0

unless you have a good reason not to (finance or summit) buy a pc from a pc company. they will have better support and should have more standardised components - which you will need if you would like to upgrade rather than replace in a few years

esb just sell electricly (and somethings that use it)

MiCr0

how much are you planning on spending? - we'll take it from there

red vex

im a 2nd student doin a computer course
i want a computer thatll last a long time
lookin 4 value but itll be a big loan 4 me so 2300eur would b ok

Typedef

64MB onboard graphics

Don't get something with onboard graphics.
Generally anything that says 'integrated' is bad.

Thus look for an agp, soundcard and actual modem if you can. When you see the word 'integrated' that implys that the hardware in question is part of the motherboard (mainboard) as opposed to a seperate card.
Thus integrated graphics cards (like the intel 810 for example) have 20mb of memory, but that 20mb is subtracted from system memory ie the 128mb of ram or whatever. Meaning that an intel 810 (integrated graphics controller) will use 20mb of that 128mb of system memory (leaving 108mb of memory) as opposed to non integrated (proper) graphics card which may have 16mb of memory, but that memory is on the card itself.

Thus avoid 'integrated' perhpherals like the plague.
Elsewise is muchos grande.
Che Lives!

swiss

'Shared' or 'integrated' graphics do not reach a very high standard at all (I know, I had a 64MB on board Graphics card - a few months ago I got a brand spanking new GeForce4 and haven't looked back since ) I wouldn't say avoid integrated peripherals like the plague, just treat them as spreads compared to butter .

Therefore, if like you say you want to only run basic stuff like encylopedia and games then tbh the onboard is fine. Just don't expect it to run graphics hungry applications easily. I must say that I had a good laugh at the "broadband ready" 10/100. Don't be fooled by this, it is a network card, only good if your PC is on a Local Area Network. It is not a DSL or ISDN device (more standard broadband services).

Since you are new to the PC world you are better buying from PC companies like Dell. Tbh they have a good reputation and their customer support is good (allegedly). Do not touch Compaq. The only problem with doing this is that you are paying for a lot of software included in a package that you do not necessarily need. For superior price/performance, you would be better off getting someone to build it for you. However, you would have less recourse if anything were to fail.

For €1300 or thereabouts I would expect

512MB SD RAM / 256MB DDR RAM

RAM is a fast area of memory that deals with resource hungry applications. It makes things run faster. The more you have, the faster it will run. DDR is a newer RAM technology that is faster than the standard SD ram. However it is more expensive. I however believe (if you have the choice) you go with DDR. It looks like it is going to become the standard in future computers. RAM prices are on the increase again, unfortunately .

40GB HDD

The space on your hard drive. Again, this depends on what you want your computer to do. I've got about 90Gigs of used space on my PC, but I have a lot of mp3's/games. If you want to go into more detail then look at the cache on the hard drive, the higher the cache the better. Also take a look at the speed, most hdd's run at either 5400 or 7200 RPM. The 7200 speed means faster access times but can run at a higher temperature.

PROCESSOR

This is where you have the choice. There are two main processor chip manufacturers, Intel and AMD. AMD typically provide you with a better price/performance ratio on thier chips. Intel are typically more expensive but their chips run cooler, which gives greater potential for overclocking (if you wanted to do a silly thing like that). The athlon XP range of processors are very good. Their clock speeds are typically slower than their Intel counterparts, but the circuitry on the chip use more efficient means of processing instructions.

Bear in mind however that your motherboard must be compatible with the chip. In many cases you cannot simply swap and choose between Intel and AMD once you have chosen the motherboard. For AMD, your motherboard often must be in what is called "Socket A" configuration.

Intel 1.7GHz is nice and fast. An Athon XP 1900+ will run at approx the same speed, but will be more efficient in other areas. Both are available at IIRC approximately the same price.

GRAPICS CARD

Onboard, or not onboard. Tbh even a late model GeForce2 card would be better than any onboard graphics card you can have. If you do decide to get a GeForce graphics card, stay away from the MX range. An alternative graphics card would be the Radeon range. The Radeon 8500 is quite good when it comes to price to performance ratio. A top of the line graphics card is the Radeon 9700. It is better than any GeForce out there (the top spec GeForce is the GeForce 4 Ti 4600). However, if you'd rather not shell out more cash, you can stick with your onboard. Just don't expect it to perform miracles.

I would expect most of your sound/audio devices would be onboard as well. For most people, sound is not a priority anyway, so I wouldn't worry about this for the mean time. Creative make good soundcards, if you want to make the plunge. The soundblaster range in particular have received good reviews.

In terms of net connection, the standard is a 57,600 bps modem. This is a theoretical maximum speed, but it depends on line quality. 16000bps is absolute pants. I would expect 3 times this figure from a good quality line. Give out to EircoN (if you read these boards you will see that Eircom are not universally liked) about the line, and ask what speeds they support. Also see if they can increase the carrier gain on your line.

Oh, and for red vex, if you just look at the specs above, beef them up a bit (for a price, obviously) and you've got a killer pc .

spongebob

looking at the list of iQon resellers in Galway I am not hopeful that any of them could fix anything for you.....after you bring it in of course.

Dell ..for €1100 will sell you This incl delivery and if it is banjaxed they will take it away and fix it for 3 years. You are no worse off if you live in a rural area.

M

red vex

where would be the best place to buy 16mb of sdram?

G

I'd go with what Muck said. But get a Geforce 4MX for €50 extra.

G

swiss

Yup, Muck has a fairly decent spec computer there for ya.

The only two things I would add are

a) The Geforce4 MX (yes I know I said avoid mx's but this is very good for an extra €50).

b) For an extra €12 get an extra 10 gig's of space. You'd be surprised how fast it fills up.

I'm not saying you can't do better. In fact you probably can if you really look around. However the PC on offer is not a bad deal at all, and it's not a great deal of hassle either.

MondaySpuds

Why is it that so many people think about them selves.. i mean alot of the time anyone who knows aboutPC always goes for the better Spec when they dont really consider the person who wants to By it.. alot of the time money is wasted on a spec that alot of people dont need...


I mean for gonker a basic machine that would cost no more then 700 euro would do everything that he needs..

a nice 40 gig hard drive and DVD and basic grapics...

A computer should be purchased on the requirements needed not want can be afforded..

i mean the situation on what has been presented of a 9, 7 and 5 year old .. and just to get net access.. why spend anymore then 800 euro ... and make a saving of 300 or 400 euro... i mean that money could always be used to upgrade the machine at al leter date.. depending on the needs of the person....

the interest that the Kids would have would be basic and by the time they get into gaming better technology will be available and .. therefor a better Buy..

Why waste money... technology just sits there never being used..
hey gonker best of luck.. in buying a Pc... but dont just listen to the opions of people up here...

swiss

Because I want bigger specs. I want the best graphics. I want the best sound. That's why I'm advising him to buy it!!!

Well, if you felt like you wanted to spend a little less, then you can get some very good deals at buyandsell.net

http://www.buyandsell.net/classifieds/index-2.php?Search&Location=15&Section=5

Example

AMD 1600 MHz. Hand built, 17" monitor, keyboard, USB optical & wireless mouse,128MB DDR Ram, 40GB HD, 32MB graphics card, network card, Price: €450

Obviously you have to be careful when purchasing online, especially from untested sources. You also have no recourse if anything goes wrong (unless you get a warranty). Most computer retailers often only sell new PC's, however, if you enquired around, checked local ad's etc, you could probably pick up a good deal as well.

G

Why waste money... technology just sits there never being used..
hey gonker best of luck.. in buying a Pc... but dont just listen to the opions of people up here...

I would consider Mucks Dell spec to be a fairly mid-ranged price machine. Remember, gonker's children will grow up and will use the pc more and more as they do. So there's no harm in him having a decent spec now unless budget is an issue.

Where will he get this machine for €700 inc VAT?

conZ

Got this from www.itdirect.com

IT Direct PC Build Quotation
This quote is valid until Monday, November 18, 2002

1x AMD Athlon XP 2000+ Retail Box
1x CoolerMaster DP5-6J31C-OL Athlon Heatsink & Fan XP 2100+
1x Abit KX7-333 Motherboard
1x DDR 256MB - PC2100 266Mhz Dimm
1x Creative 3D GeForce4 MX460 64MB 550Mhz DDR AGP TV
1x Maxtor IDE Hard Disk Drive 60 GB 7200RPM
Integrated Floppy Drive
Integrated Case
1x MS Wheel Mouse 2 Button PS2
1x CTX 17inch 0.27 Dot Pitch Monitor
1x Relisys 16x DVD Drive - Retail
1x Creative Labs PCI 128 OEM
1x Creative PlayWorks PS2000 Digital 2 Piece Speaker System
1x Hayes Accura 56k Internal PCI V90 Modem
Integrated Keyboard
1x Microsoft OEM Windows XP Home
1x Mitsumi CDRW 32x12x40x Retail
Integrated Network Adaptor


€1,233.01 ExVAT
€1,491.94 IncVAT

afaik this should be all compatible. maybe a few boards ppl might add to it... This should be everything you want, bar the printer.
Yes, a bit over the expected limit but you could maybe cut down on the CPU - 1x AMD Athlon XP 2000+ Retail Box(approx the same as a P4 2ghz), leave out the network adapter, cut down on the modem, im sure you could find someone that would lend you windows XP or 2k(take 200~ off the price), maybe cut down to 40gig HD and also get an integrated fan (probably base model).
Do this and should bring you below the 1000 mark, also having much better specthan that iQon)
The above spec would do you for quiet a while imho.

MondaySpuds

Yes you are right about the Kids growing up but i really dont think that they need the knida specs that you all are speaking about .. about better graphic ... better sound... and better better better..

I was just saying that the there are other ways to go as well.. i mean you all have stated very good Price machine for people who will use what is int he box... but for newbies is such i high end machine needed..

computer and graphic s card do go out of date very Quickly.. just saying that if the Kids do want to play games and stuff thats fine... but at the moment depending on what the computer is being bought for.. really..

another computer could be bought at a later date for more specific Needs... but i do take on board you Point... im saying that there not much point in spending loads of money on a high end machine if its not going to be used to its potential.. thats all.

Gerry

Mondayspuds, ARGH!!
I think conz's quote is pretty damn good, it will do everything they want. Whats the point in buying a computer which can't play games when graphics cards are so cheap? You won't save much money, and you'll be left with a pretty annoying pain in your face when the kids start whining that their games won't work.

Yes computers and graphics cards go out of date, which is why you should buy a decent value machine. About 1300-1400 euro and you will get plenty of bang for your buck, as muck and conz have shown.

None of the specs here are remotely "high end". Obviously you don't know what a high end spec looks like.

Gerry

Ok, well the kids will annoy their parents, and the parents will annoy you.

gonker

Is a dvd worth getting on the pc? I dont think anybody has mentioned it. The kids are excited that they will be able to watch dvds on the pc.
what do you lads think
gonk

PPC

Originally posted by gonker
Is a dvd worth getting on the pc? I dont think anybody has mentioned it. The kids are excited that they will be able to watch dvds on the pc.
what do you lads think
gonk

Some software like Encarta comes on DVD now and its quiet handy.

It's worth the extra few quid i think.

gonker

ooops deleted a message instead of editing it. I am not a male I am a female. thanks again ill keep reading. this is interesting stuff.
gonk

spongebob

Dell have upped their prices, they were better a month ago.

can santa have a flat tyre on teh night and arrive ...say ....end Jan?

M

uch

DVD is handy on PC but try and get a combo cd-rw\DVD as it's a bit more functional for a home user, also for a novice you'd probably be better off buying from Dell as their aftersales service is pretty good for someone who can't fix it themselves.

MondaySpuds

Personally i dont think a comp is worth getting Just to watch DVDs..


if you are thinking of somehting for the Kids maybe a Playstation 2 may not have crossed your mind..

its a Gaming console... with a DVD Player..

DVD Look better on a TV anyways...

you can Buy DVD players for 150 euro now... and it will look better and sound better on a TV then it will on a screen..


But alot of software and stuff can come on DVD so a DVD Rom may not be a bad idea for a Comp..

gonker

Yeah I know you can get dvds very cheaply now. But you still have to buy another tv. Remember three kids. A lot of the kids dvds have dvdrom capabilities so that would be an added bonus too. They really like the idea of cdwriter too to backup stuff as the amount of music cds they have damaged.....
Anyway keep coming with your answers....
gonk.


ps

"can santa have a flat tyre on teh night and arrive ...say ....end Jan?"
Do you not know anything Muck...Santa doesnt travel on wheels. He flys through the sky and his sleigh has runners not wheels Dohhh:)

G

I am not a male I am a female

sorry love

MondaySpuds

I see how this conversation has unfolded.. and maybe i was wrong... the way to go would be a new PC..

and Dell maybe the way to go.. but coming up to christmas may or may not be a good time to buy...

After christmas sales.. stores are more likely to Keep there prices untill after christmas on some machine...

conZ

Yep, definately get a DVD drive.
IMO CDROM's wont be used much in the near future, instead games etc will be on DVD - Especially now that DVD writers are becoming popular. It is worth your while getting one. A dvd drive for your PC is only about €50.

The PC i listed below would be perfect for at least 2-3 years of with young kids using it for a few games, word processing and browsing the net.

PC's in computer stores like PC world are really bad quality. They show the good bits like P4 2ghz !!!! CDRW - DVD - huge 17' monitor - 60gig HDD - WOW, but everything else is just plain crap - onboard sound, 32mb shared graphics etc and your pc will be in bits after half a year.

Typedef

Basically a computer's potential usefulness hardware wise is a function of the amount of cash you spend on it.

Spend too little and you end up with a heap. Myself I would be inclined to get the best one I could afford, because the more it costs the better components used, the more future proof and the more potential to put the thing you use one has.

If in doubt, spend the cash, in a capitalist society, one has to let the money flow.

On topic. Definitely get a DVD drive. Get a CDRW if you want, if it were me and I had the choice, it would be a DVD drive I invested in, before the CDRW.

What can I say, I'm a material girl... err no wait a material guy.
/You know what I mean.

Ruu_Old

u'll probably get a coverplan or insurance type thing with ur pc when u buy it, should u not..make sure to get one. Mine has come in very useful otherwise id have paid a small fortune 2 monitors have failed, 2 cdwriters and a dvd to date. They were all replaced. good luck pc buying

BigEejit

You could order your computer without a DVD drive and then buy it youself and fit it yourself, Komplett have them for 60 euro .. it is surprisingly easy, but you may need a new IDE cable and an internal power splitter cable if you buy dell .. to keep down costs they have been known to ship PC's with IDE cables with only the two connectors on them .. You must also make sure that you have a 51/4" drive bay free..

Raskolnikov

If you're new to using computers then just go and buy off Dell, you'll get a PC with decent build quality, at a decent enough price delivered to your door.

http://commerce.euro.dell.com/dellstore/config/frameset.asp?b=37372&m=eur&l=en&s=iedhs&sbc=iedhsprimary&v=d

Just go here and add on a modem DVD drive and CD rewriter and for E1,303.80 you'll get this delivered to your door

2.0Ghz Pentium
256MB DDRRAM
40GB Hard drive
17in Monitor
DVD Drive
56k Modem

If you're not too fussed about playing the latest games then you'll get years out of this

Gerry

Originally posted by Ruu
u'll probably get a coverplan or insurance type thing with ur pc when u buy it, should u not..make sure to get one. Mine has come in very useful otherwise id have paid a small fortune 2 monitors have failed, 2 cdwriters and a dvd to date. They were all replaced. good luck pc buying

DO NOT get coverplan. You will end up paying perhaps 20-25% extra for it. Why not just ensure that the pc comes with a decent warranty. You have to wonder why so much stuff failed on you as well. The average is much, much lower.

And rasholnikov, you could add a geforce2 mx to that dell for €49, and get semi-decent games playing out of it.

VOGAD

Wow gonker thats a whole load of advice for buying one pc isn't it So what have you come up with at the moment?

Kali

gonker, thanks for posting here.. unfortunaly a lot of people tend to lose sight of the original post, i.e. a family pc thats easy to use, manages all the latest game and wont have your credit card company ringing every second day.

Buying a family PC used to be real easy.. took the form of pointing the person at Gateway...

Unfortunaly with their demise in Ireland, you're left with three choices for a complete PC:

a) Overpriced comuter retailers with poor parts and poor warranties and poorer support.
b) Underpriced computer retailers with great parts, manufacturers warranties and no support.
or
Dell... the medium ground between the above two with decent parts and good warranties and support.

If you are not a technical person than buy a Dell. The support are (for the most part) helpful and patient... plus and not one person has mentioned this, they are an absolute doddle to take out of the box and setup (which is THE most important thing on christmas day)... and no I don't work for them, but put myself out of a lot of callout work by reccomending them damnit

One technical point though, mention to the salesperson (or if you're buying from dell.com check it yourself) that you want a proper graphics card. The rest of the machine will chug quite happily along for the next 3 or 4 years... that is the only part that sees the biggest performance decline imo.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Gerry

And rasholnikov, you could add a geforce2 mx to that dell for €49, and get semi-decent games playing out of it.

Opps, didn't notice that Without going overboard you can get another 10gigs in the hard drive for E12, if you've got the dosh then why not splash out

I think the general consensus here is to go for a Dell, i've never owned one myself but i know people with them and they seem reliable. Kali is right about setting it up too, all the bits like graphics cards, monitors, mice etc are all Plug and Play so all you've got to do is just stick in the wires and turn the machine on and you're ready to go.

gonker

Thanks ,
I didnt know that there was so much stuff to know about computers etc., Still listening. Only 6 and a half weeks till Santa comes so have a little while to go.

gonk

ps. Must thank the real gonk for lending me her name to post this.
thanks g. when i get online i will register for real I really think this is a great board. She will keep me informed of any more posts.

Raskolnikov

Just get the specs of the computer which you decide upon and leave them here and you can get some opinions.

damien_gill

I'm probably a bit late coming into this thread.

But just so y'all know my laptop is an Iqon and they have EXCELLENT tech support it's second to none and I should know.

Plus they are very reliable machines except the CD-ROM keeps going on my laptop for some reason (2 times in a year)

Just thought Id add that in prob doesnt help but there ya go.

BTW I could get ya a custom PC for very cheap whats your price ceiling?