Digital Radio

deepspeed · 29-10-2002 7:50pm #1

Hey,

Just wondering can we receive any DAB channels in Ireland??

If so whats needed? Besides a DAB reciever?

watty · 29-10-2002 8:06pm

With big band III vertical polarized aerial any place good enough for DTT you might.

You need a DAB radio. The DAB radio costs more than Digibox, and the quality is alleged to be questionablesee here
Also the Digibox EVEN HERE with NO CARD gets more Radio than most DAB muxes.
(Note the BBC Radio works via other channels on Digibox or on EPG if you boot with no card).

I can get about 18 or 19 VHF-FM Radio in Limerick with a modest aerial. DAB untill cheap portable sets (not appicalble here because you would need big aerial) seems a damp squib.

Mossy Monk · 29-10-2002 9:23pm

not a question about DAB but FM. i have a VHF aerial currently giving good reception for a lot of channels along the south of Ireland. some channels could be better. it is the aerial i used for RTÉ before it moved to UHF. what would the best polarity be for FM. it's currently horizontal

byte · 30-10-2002 12:33am

Mossy, it would possibly be better vertical

Not sure about your aerial though. It's VHF alright but it would be optimised for Band III, not FM.

byte · 30-10-2002 12:38am

Originally posted by deepspeed
Hey,

Just wondering can we receive any DAB channels in Ireland??

If so whats needed? Besides a DAB reciever?

Vrey good question. I can just about get BBC Radio 1 on FM (dunno where from but I would imagine it's Brougher Mtn) with an indoor telescopic aerial but it would be a lot better with an outdoor aerial of some sort.

I guess the chances of DAB in Ireland with Irish services are as likely as affordable ADSL at all phone exchanges!:rolleyes:

deepspeed · 30-10-2002 1:07am

So, If I was to get a plethora (more than RTEs, TODAY, MIDWEST) on FM type quality, ya reckon Sat is the way to go??

I have an old dish lying around the attic somewhere.. I think it was a SkyDigital dish.

So do i have to subscribe to the bahahstads if all i want is d'wireless??

Or could i pick up some class of a receiver on eBay?

Mossy Monk · 30-10-2002 1:16am

Originally posted by deepspeed
So do i have to subscribe to the bahahstads if all i want is d'wireless??

no and they have an excellent selection all for free except a few, namely 5 live, Talksport and a few football club stations. getting 5 live is easy though

Mossy Monk · 30-10-2002 1:19am

Originally posted by irishbyte
Mossy, it would possibly be better vertical

Not sure about your aerial though. It's VHF alright but it would be optimised for Band III, not FM.

i'll have a go this weekend. if i can get BBC Radio 2 on FM more frequent than i do now i will be happy. it's a pain on Sky because someones always wanting the telly

deepspeed · 30-10-2002 1:36am

Ok cool,

Know any good FAQ's or places I can go for info on this???

Cheers!

DMC · 30-10-2002 8:47am

I have a Psion Wavefinder (DAB for the PC, plugs into USB) and I am waiting to try it at home in Co. Meath, when I bring my PC home

but if my experiences of DTT is anything to go by... I think I stand a better chance on getting DAB, as I can get BBC R1 and R2 on FM from Divis with a telescopic aerial indoors. An outdoor VHF aerial is the way to go....

deepspeed, just remember, its location, location, location. Where are you anyways?

Best DAB info site (with drivers for PC based recievers)
http://www.uk-dab.info/

Some user experiences of the Wavefinder here.... http://www.mb21.co.uk/ether.net/radio/wavefinder.shtml

marclt · 30-10-2002 9:03am

The thing you have to remember is that most of northern ireland is covered by the divis transmitter... so if you live close to the border all you'll get is the BBC Radio stations (DigitalOne dont cover the north!)

If you live along the East or South East, then you're unlikely to get anything... the closest transmitter in Wales is Kilvey Hill... and that's in Swansea. Wenvoe do DAB but thats in Cardiff... It probably wont be until Haverfordwest/Presely or Blaenplwyf start DAB that Irish listeners will be able to get anything.

The switch on for these is anyone's guess!!!

DMC · 30-10-2002 10:07am

http://www.rte.ie/radio/dab/

(Not updated in 3 years)

watty · 30-10-2002 11:15am

Originally posted by Mossy Monk
i'll have a go this weekend. if i can get BBC Radio 2 on FM more frequent than i do now i will be happy. it's a pain on Sky because someones always wanting the telly

Get a Digibox only connected to HiFi.
Print out a list of the 60 FTA radio from internet (no sub needed) and just type the 3 digits to change channel on Hifi. You can plug wireless or IR cordless headphones direct to Digibox or use 127 Euro Thomson or Argos Video senders for Hifi Stereo on Hifi amp in a another room.
Boot with NO card is better than an ROI card for Radio, A UK FTV card only gives 5Live / Talksport extra on Radio.

For FTA (not FTV) a PC Satellite card will give all 60 odd Sky Radio plus TCM, Boomerang etc with Record to disk (and possible to convert to CD DA or MP3 later).

Or a cheap FTA satellite receiver. Again a TV is not strictly required.

I have about 350 "Digital Radio" on my PC based Satellite receiver with 4 LNBs (Sky, HotBirds 13E, Astra 19E and 4th LNB on manually steerable 1m Dish)

Mossy Monk · 30-10-2002 2:08pm

i have thought about going that route before but the main stumbling block with this idea is a shortage of €'s

i'll go up on the roof and if it works where i can pick up a steady signal then i will be happy. mono would do. all i want is BBC Radio 2 at any time i want at an affordable price. and if my VHF aerial does the trick then

. which would be best, a signal from Wales or one from the Westcountry

deepspeed · 30-10-2002 3:14pm

Originally posted by DMC

deepspeed, just remember, its location, location, location. Where are you anyways?

Best DAB info site (with drivers for PC based recievers)
http://www.uk-dab.info/

Some user experiences of the Wavefinder here.... http://www.mb21.co.uk/ether.net/radio/wavefinder.shtml [/B]

Well as the crow flies, Swanlinbar is 70km NNE of me. And thats right on the border. Me in Roscommon. (no dsl either...)

Cuilcagh Mtns are at that location too.., I wonder is there a broadcast antennae near there??

Is there a list of 'em in N Irl??

deepspeed · 30-10-2002 3:17pm

Oh! and how much would I pay for a 2nd hand digibox??

Hopefully less than €100??

Thanx!

watty · 30-10-2002 3:42pm

Less than €50 for S/H digibox, *ON ITS OWN*
Not worth much if it has no remote, no dish, no LNB, no Coax and original slow CPU (no * on EPG version) Those all add up.

Is it cheating

to ask for a second free one with your Name and address in Irish?

DMC · 30-10-2002 3:45pm

There is a guy around here from Sligo, who can get the Score Digital DAB broadcasts from Brougher Mountain in Fermanagh. Can you get good TV from the North?

http://www.scoredigital.co.uk/services.htm outlines the channels that are available from Brougher Mountain. Only BBC Radio Ulster is available there, all BBC national networks are available from Divis only currently.

deepspeed · 31-10-2002 1:47am

Originally posted by watty
For FTA (not FTV) a PC Satellite card will give all 60 odd Sky Radio plus TCM, Boomerang etc with Record to disk (and possible to convert to CD DA or MP3 later).

I think I'm blind - I never even read this ----

I just bought me a Pent@NET Digital Satellite Internet PC Card last week!! :rolleyes:

I have a satellite dish in the attic that I got off a mate when he was dumping his sky sub - he gave the digibox to someone else..

So presumably all I need to do is hook the whole lot up!!

I have about 350 "Digital Radio" on my PC based Satellite receiver with 4 LNBs (Sky, HotBirds 13E, Astra 19E and 4th LNB on manually steerable 1m Dish)

I like the sound of your setup watty, Is it a big deal to get another 3LNBs onto my dish??

Actually, feck the steerable one...

deepspeed · 31-10-2002 1:50am

Originally posted by DMC
There is a guy around here from Sligo, who can get the Score Digital DAB broadcasts from Brougher Mountain in Fermanagh. Can you get good TV from the North?

http://www.scoredigital.co.uk/services.htm outlines the channels that are available from Brougher Mountain. Only BBC Radio Ulster is available there, all BBC national networks are available from Divis only currently.

At my house, I can get watchable BBCs,UTV,C4 - If the weather is particularly bad, they are crap, but generally quite clear.

BUT I know someone living just a minutes drive away that has very good reception on the above mentioned. I bet its to do with the aerials..

I definitely know that the broadcast antennae is in enniskillen. (roughly 70-80km away)

DMC · 31-10-2002 8:49am

Then hopefully with a decent VHF outdoor aerial (vertically polarized), you may stand a more than decent chance of getting the Score Digital broadcasts from that transmitter in Fermanagh called Brougher Mountain.

Cork · 31-10-2002 9:38am

Has Ireland any plans for digital radio?

I think the costs of radio handsets is dropping - Will RTE still be broadcasting soccer matchs on MW?

DMC · 31-10-2002 9:53am

From http://www.worlddab.org/dabworld/dabworld_frame.htm

Ireland
(01/03/2002) RTE launched a 6-service DAB pilot system in Dublin on 15th November 1999 carrying RTE's four FM services, the national commercial channel, Today FM and international broadcaster, WRN.

However, while the network is still in place, RTE have stopped its services as it awaits the production of low-cost receivers.

Or more like, never. :mad:

watty · 31-10-2002 12:01pm

Originally posted by deepspeed
I think I'm blind - I never even read this ----

I just bought me a Pent@NET Digital Satellite Internet PC Card last week!! :rolleyes:

I have a satellite dish in the attic that I got off a mate when he was dumping his sky sub - he gave the digibox to someone else..

So presumably all I need to do is hook the whole lot up!!

I like the sound of your setup watty, Is it a big deal to get another 3LNBs onto my dish??
Actually, feck the steerable one...

A 80/90 cm dish can easily have 3 LNBs
A 1.2m dish can have 5 LNBs

If the Pent@net card is a "reduced cost" for internet downloads it may not have a DSP chip to do Radio & TV "on card", but their are 3rd party applications for TV & Radio using 500MHz (800MHz recommended) PC to do it all in SW from the IP stream. My PC is only 233MHz so relies on the card having the Texas Inst. DSP chip and the Philips "Multimedia bridge". The data only cards while they can do it in SW on a suitable PC don't have built in audio and video out.

If your card has a BIG texas chip and a BIG Philips chip then it is a "full feature in HW card" (they all use thoise two chips!). If it has no TV out connector and no BIG Texas / Philips chips then you can download SW to make it go for Radio & TV depending on how powerfull you CPU is.

If you need the SW I have some links...
If you have a Full feature card I have other links...

This is mine horribly out of date :
http://homepage.eircom.net/~watty/satellite/satellite.htm

The top of the pole is cut shorter and has 1m center feed on a manual polar mount.

Also the workshop roof has five Dishes now, (Three 90 cm in a row on edge of roof!

Sky ........Astra19 ... HotBird

It's a bit tidyed up now

byte · 31-10-2002 9:32pm

Originally posted by DMC
http://www.scoredigital.co.uk/services.htm outlines the channels that are available from Brougher Mountain. Only BBC Radio Ulster is available there, all BBC national networks are available from Divis only currently.

AFAIK the BBC Radio I get is from Brougher (BBC R1 is 99.0FM) so if I were to get a DAB receiver, all I'd get is BBC R Ulster? Pff! Definitely not worth the bother.

If anyone is going to use a satellite receiver for radio only, I would recommend a proper one with a LED display so that you can see what number is on (something that should have been on a Sky digibox).

Edit: Yippee, my 1000th post!

lawhec · 31-10-2002 11:30pm

I have no experience of DAB radios but I have looked at some of the details of the system running up here.

The BBC have just a solidarity DAB TX in N.Ireland at Divis Mountain, on Multiplex 12B (225.648 MHz) with 10kW VERP. The stations it carries are on the link below

http://www.bbc.co.uk/digitalradio/radiostations.shtml

Score Digital provides a commercial DAB service using six DAB TX's at Black Mountain (ERP 7kW max, all vertical polarised), Colinward (N.Belfast, 500W), Limavady (4.4kW), Derry (5kW), Strabane (5kW) and Brougher Mountain (5kW) on Multiplex 12D (229.07 MHz). It carries a variety of services, including BBC Radio Ulster, Cool FM, Downtown, Q102 and a few others. The UK RA's press release for the award of the licence, giving details of what stations they carry is at

http://www.radioauthority.org.uk/newsroom/news-release/00/pr139.htm

... though from the data sheet I have Virgin and Talk Sport are missing. Perhaps the man from Sligo who did pick these services up can clarify this for the thread.

There is also a "coverage map" of commercial multiplexes (excluding the Digital One service I think) at http://www.radioauthority.org.uk/radio-stations/digital/Digital-Map-01-11-09.jpg

not a question about DAB but FM. i have a VHF aerial currently giving good reception for a lot of channels along the south of Ireland. some channels could be better. it is the aerial i used for RTÉ before it moved to UHF. what would the best polarity be for FM. it's currently horizontal

It isn't the ideal aerial for FM radio broadcasts to start with though if DAB ever gets up and running in the south it will prove useful. With the exception of RTE TX's at Kippure, Three Rock and Holywell Hill all FM TX's in the Republic are VERTICALLY polarised. However the vast majority of BBC FM TX's are mixed polarity transmissions.

So do i have to subscribe to the bahahstads if all i want is d'wireless??

Nope. The only radio stations on Sky that are encrypted are BBC Radio 5live, Talk Sport and a few English Football club stations, along with Sky news radio (this isn't for domestic subscribers). All the other stations broadcast FTA.

If you live along the East or South East, then you're unlikely to get anything... the closest transmitter in Wales is Kilvey Hill... and that's in Swansea. Wenvoe do DAB but thats in Cardiff... It probably wont be until Haverfordwest/Presely or Blaenplwyf start DAB that Irish listeners will be able to get anything.

There is also the added complication that they can't use any of the block 11 multiplexes as long at Mt.Leinster broadcasts Network 2 on Channel I. Digital One do however plan to add a TX at the Arfon site in the near future (no date announced). RTÉ had to shut down it's transmissions of Network 2 on Channel J from Moville and Letterkenny, and transfer RTE1 and Network 2 to UHF before DAB could be transmitted beyond Divis in N.I.

The thing you have to remember is that most of northern ireland is covered by the divis transmitter... so if you live close to the border all you'll get is the BBC Radio stations (DigitalOne dont cover the north!)

Divis even on FM only officially covers around half of the N.Ireland landmass, and it's DAB coverage is even less. I've (hopefully) attached the BBC FM Divis coverage map below to give an idea of it's area.

...from that transmitter in Fermanagh called Brougher Mountain.

Without wanting to sound picky, the actual mast is on the Tyrone side of the mountain(!)

DMC · 01-11-2002 8:25am

ooh ooh ooh! NC, where did you get the Divis pic?

lawhec · 01-11-2002 1:16pm

They are coverage maps that the BBC issued back in the mid-1990's. I have them for FM and TV for all the main TX's in N.Ireland. For FM (it doesn't say in the picutre) the green area is where the signal has a field strength of 54dbuV (something like that anyway) which defines what the engineers call the coverage area. It is of course perfectly possible to receive it beyond the green area and as a previous poster pointed out, it can be heard almost anywhere in Northern Ireland and well into the Republic including South Donegal and as far south as Dublin Airport.

And as an extra treat, I've attached a pic showing the FM coverage area for Brougher Mountain (BBC)!:D

DMC · 01-11-2002 5:15pm

Brilliant stuff NC! Thanks for sharing it!

Yes, its quite inconceivable for the coverage to stop right at the border! They'd quite like it to be that way

Richard · 02-11-2002 12:02pm

Originally posted by Northern Correspondent

... though from the data sheet I have Virgin and Talk Sport are missing. Perhaps the man from Sligo who did pick these services up can clarify this for the thread.

I think they were planned to be on SCORE Digital - their website listed them some time ago but they were removed before launch. I'm not sure why, to be honest. Having Virgin in Stereo would be a big advantage - Classic Fm is already in Stereo on FM.

I hope NI will be able to get one more MUX so that DigitalOne will be able to be carried. Maybe when some more Irish VHF sites close down....

I hope there'll be some sort of co-operation so that UK services will be available in the Republic and ROI service will be available in NI. But it'll be a while before we see that...

lawhec · 02-11-2002 2:47pm

I hope NI will be able to get one more MUX so that DigitalOne will be able to be carried. Maybe when some more Irish VHF sites close down....

This won't happen until Truskmore shuts down it's RTÉ 1 TV service on VHF (Channel I) and transfers it to UHF. And unlike converting a few small transposers, new aerials that would be required from Derry to Mayo (who don't already have a UHF aerial for TV3 & TG4) and also for the RX aerials at transposer sites = a long time for dual illumination, angry RTE viewers (the swith on of DTT from Brougher mountain brought in loads of complaints from people who relied on Holywell Hill for RTÉ in Omagh) and a massive headache. RTÉ have also promised that the VHF service at Truskmore will remain there for the forseeable future, until the analogue service is shut down.

I hope there'll be some sort of co-operation so that UK services will be available in the Republic and ROI service will be available in NI. But it'll be a while before we see that...

IIRC the Irish Republic has been allocated two nationwide multiplexes by international agreement, 12A and 12C. One is to be used by RTÉ, the other for commercial services. However these two multiplexes are also designated "All Ireland" and have been given clearence to broadcast north of the border as well if DAB ever gets up and running in the Republic. That will leave NI with four potential multiplexes, and RoI with only two! Of course if the relevant authorities did deals with it's UK counterparts that could change.

Having Virgin in Stereo would be a big advantage - Classic Fm is already in Stereo on FM.

Agreed. I'm only able to hear it occassionaly on the Digibox and the MW reception of the station here is ropey at best. Virgin in Britain already heavily push it's DAB service.

deepspeed · 04-11-2002 9:18pm

Originally posted by watty
A 80/90 cm dish can easily have 3 LNBs
A 1.2m dish can have 5 LNBs

Watty,

The dish I have is a 72cm wide, 60cm tall dish..

what do ya think the chances of gettin another 2 LNB's on that are???

Oh and I havent received my Sat card yet, so dunno if its the Hardware chipset or not...

Digital Radio

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