Help Nt Server / Windows Xp

coupe 02

Help me, I waited and waited for service pack 1 to come out for windows xp professional. It did and it still doesnt help me with my xp/nt problem.

Recently we purchased 8 copies of windows xp pro. We kept our nt4 server and just upgraded the pcs, now the pcs hang for up to five minutes everytime we use a network resource. Some one told me it was an issue with the xps all thinking there the main domain, how true this is i dont know. Any Any Advice, Im a broken man from this

deckie27

now the pcs hang for up to five minutes everytime we use a network resource

I'm using xp pro on a network with a NT domain controller

I did experience a problem like you are talking
Basically the problem was that there was an old server name that the network was holding on to (It was a test PDC which was put on the network for a few minutes by mistake)
everytime a network resourse was accessed it went looking for this server but couldn't find it (It didn't give up, it kept looking like a lost soul)

When identifyed we were able to do a registry edit and delete all reference to the server, he presto problem gone.

This may ring a bell ???

Kali

yep if you have a linux box around the office try and run netwatch or even better tcpdump.. itll show you whats happening and where packets are being sent, its the easiest way to find out if theres a rogue dns/wins server trying to be accessed by clients..

coupe 02

went into server manager and saw another "backup" server added, now im left with an nt4 primary server and nt5.1 workstations cant seem to track the backup in regedit am i way off the beaten track or have i done what you done

Occidental

You say "another" BDC. Do you have 2 backup domain controllers showing under Server Manager and what should you physically have. Your Nt5.1 ws are of course the XP Pro Workstations.

coupe 02

heres where im at

in server manager all i have is the

WDG - nt4.0 primary domain
user 1
user 2
user 3
"
user 8 - nt5.1 workstations

thats it, there is no backup domain etc.
The only box's in the office is the d-link printer server.

By deleting the pcpro backup domain, the pc's seem to hang less now, there is still the infrequent one, It still takes at least ten miuntes to log on to the domain, it only takes 3 or 4 secs to log on to the local and access the domain through the network drive.

I still cant seem to fix the logging on problem and it still hangs!!

Anyone?? tanx for the help so far, ill get to keep my job for another week.

spongebob

you should tombstone the 'ghostly' server in Wins on the nt server,

then stop and start the wins service in the control panel and then try to log on from an xp box

stops the browsing from hanging, cleaner than registry hacks.

M

coupe 02

still cant log in without a ten minute delay

Occidental

Can you have a look in your app event logs and see if you've got any 1054 errors or anything else unusual. Have a funny feeling this could be a DNS problem.

ando

It this was a 2000 server, it would be a DNS problem. To sort it out in 2000, I would first off, make sure DNS is working on the server, then in TCP/IP of the workstations, I would put in for DNS, the IP address of the server.

I had this problem when i was learning 2000, as soon as I pointed the workstations DNS settings to the server, it was fine

[EDIT], also, check out the Hosts files on the workstations.. you could try force the workstations to see the domain and the server to log onto

coupe 02

the only thing unusual is a time difference error, its saying the time difference is to great, after that its just random netlogon failures, or automatic dialup failures

ando

can you upload or attach your system log ?

ando

can you upload or attach your system log ?

EG, you can save your app log to your desktop and upload it to here using the attach box

I'm pretty sure its dns problem, XP uses DNS a LOT more than 2000

ando

10.0.0.1 servername #PRE #DOM:ALPHA
10.0.0.1 "ALPHA \0x1b" #PRE


That is a hosts file that tells the workstation where and what domain to log onto.... 'Log onto server "servername" that has an IP of 10.0.0.1 and log onto the domain "alpha"

I use this hosts file to log 2000 machines to a NT network over a router. It should work for you on a LAn iswell

just save it as a 'hosts' file within Notepad... no extentions into the
C:\winnt\system32\drivers\etc folder. I'm not sure XP has the same folder structure or not, but see Help in XP to make sure its the right location

Just out of curiosity, does your XP machines have any DNS settings at all? and is there any NT4 workstations or 98 machines having any problems logging on?

coupe 02

here is server

coupe 02

heres just a bit of my own pc

spongebob

01/10/02,14:31:10,BROWSER,Information,None,8015,N/A,Server Name Here,

The browser has forced an election on network \Device\NetBT_El90x1 because a Windows NT Server (or domain master) browser is started.

Are you sure there is only one Domain Controller there. Browser elections occur when they find each other and nmot because of legacies in WINS

What does the Program Files/Admin Tools/Server Manager show?

1 or 2 domain controllers...esp pdc bdc 's , 2 pdcs even worse?

What does the Program Files/Admin Tools/Wins Magers show?

can you tombstone the one that ain't there or is it not there and in server manager, will it let you?

As long as there are 'Master Browser (IE Primary Domain Controller) elections' the XP problem is a feature and not a bug.

M

ando

hehe, thx for that but it would be easier to read in *.evt format. If you go into event viewer and right click on the 'system log, save log file as'... *.evt

coupe 02

cant upload evt's

coupe 02

wins manager just has "walshdesign" a.k.a the server
and server manager has the same "walshdesign" and user pcs

ando

you could try using the hosts file on one of the xp workstation machines, see if it makes any difference, also, is the server mutilhomed?

Multihomed servers can create unexpected and undesirable effects with the browser service

retneil

XP has in built caching for logons its an dns / NS Lookup problem (hosts) as ando correctly pointed out. Run nslookup on the winxp systems check out response times to the server using ping . make sure you can ping the localhost on the xp server etc and see who can talk to whom etc. Slow login is caused by not knowing where to go. Be sure DNS and DHCP is configured okay. Use nslookup to verify these. Use the switches associated with nslookup and ull eventually work out the problem. If you cant solve the issue manually insert the correct gateway on the systems and throw the ip into the hosts file. This is only to be used as a temporary measure until u solve the nslookup issue. which u can test until u do etc etc...

coupe 02

i dont have any dns settings filled in for the pc's, i have assigned them static ip address.

coupe 02

tcp/ip settings

ip address : 192.168.0.1
subnet mask : 255.255.255.0
default gateway : 192.168.0.1

use following dns server

preferred : blank
alternate : blank

in advanced

ip settings
ip address : as above
subnet: above

def gateways
as above
metric - automatic

dns settings
all blank bar
ticked - append primary and connection specific dns suffixes
ticked - append parent suffixes of the primary dns suffix
register this connections addresses in dns

wins

all blank bar
enable lmhosts lookup
netbios setting is ticked to default

options
tcp/ip filtering

Occidental

I could be totally wrong on this, but in line with the comments above please try the following on one of the XP workstations.


In %system root%\system32\drivers\etc you should find a hosts file and a networks file.

In hosts file add the server ip and name as in

192.168.0.1 server01

In the networks file add the domain IP and domain name as in

192.168.0 walshdesign


Also under advanced settings in TCP/IP in your network settings uncheck the "register this connection’s address in DNS" box.

You obviously need to change the IP's, machine name and domain name to match you LAN, but you get the idea.

retneil

Give us an ipconfig /all if u can. Try to ping the server by its hostname. Then try by its ip name use ping -a (IP ADDR) then repeat the process on the server. Then as stated below insert all details required for hosts file. U sure you dont have a loopback adapter thats not pointing to itself. Those systems on the web? How etc.. ipconfig /all from either server and one of the systems if possible and we shall all have a look!

retneil

i expect the system u listed as 192.168.0.1 is the server?

do this to troubleshoot the problem on each system perform the following.

ping localhost
ping by ip
ping server name
ping by ip serv
ping -a by ip serv

repeat on other systems. looking at the below how are you performing name resolution on network?

retneil

stop the browser service also i once seen undesirable effects in a standalone enviro between a nt4 box and w2k box whereby browser services kept arguing for control of network. net stop browser on all the xp clients...

coupe 02

Occidental Ando Take A Bow

i used your host file ando, and occidental i unchecked the "register this connection’s address in DNS" box.

It Worked, It F*&()in Worked, Im So happy,
Im ecstatic whoooo waaaaaa

To anyone who gave me advise here if they ever want qoutes for pc stuff ill more than oblige, i buy wholsale computer equip and will sort ya out if your looking for a price. colin@wdg.ie

regards
one happy fu84@er

coupe 02

premature, i was very premature

when i logoff locally and on to domain it goes in instant, access network instantly, but when i reboot the pc and start fresh it hangs for 5 mins, then it hangs for a further two mins opening a mapped netwrok drive, once it opens mapped drive it then works fine, if i re-log in it does it instant, and logs onto mapped drive in an instant.

as said i replaced the hosts file it now reads

192.168.0.1 walshdesign #PRE #DOM:domain
192.168.0.1 "domain \0x1b" #PRE
is this correct?

I havent changed the other files in here.

I also ticked off register this connections address in advanced tcp/ip settings

Yere getting me there, oh so near. where now tecky heads?

ando

glad to see we're getting there . .... hmm, I was looking for some cheap RAM lately !!!!! lol

let me think for 5mins about the new problem

ando

ok, so after the initial lagout, it works fine.... K

hmm, can you check to see if there is any other new events/errors in the event log? also, I'm not to sure about having its own IP as the Default Gateway.

Your hosts file looks fine the way it is, its just a matter of finding out how XP reacts to such a file... I'm not to experianced with XP, but I'm sure it works the same as 2000 underneath it all.

BTW, the mapped drives, are they on the server that is on the hosts file? or are the mapped drives on other XP machines without any hosts files configured?

Hehe, you can always keep your boss happy by coming into work a bit earlier and switching on his pc, loggin on, get past the initial lagout and then logoff

spongebob

You said a few hours back

wins manager just has "w********n" a.k.a the server

ya need to double click on that (left window) to see what machines are 'registered' with that wins server

the problem may still be with what wins thinks is there,

M

retneil

gotcha.. if the master browser is forcing an election it is because the following... The nt box should technically be the master browser as it is the only system that is common with the xp boxes (and indeed the dc). when xp comes along however it knows that it is of a higher version than the nt box and attempts to become the master browser on the network. The systems start fighting with each other etc.. try net stop browser on all the winxp boxes to sort it out... unfortunatly its a config issue and u will need to troubleshoot to ensure that the comm's between the systems are fine... using ping as stated in previous message to names etc and check that the roundtrip time is not too slow.. should be 1ms... that explains some of the slow login's. why u are not using wins i do not know.. it may provide proper name resolution... by the way cheap hardware i hear goto a site PM some prices out of interest...

retneil

a master browser is used when a system is looking for another box on the network using its names conflicts occur between nt and 2000 which xp is the guts off as it wants to be master browser...

spongebob

his xp boxes are workstations and cannot be master browsers

his server is the only domain controller as well. Therefore as the only domain controller it logically must be the Master Browser...even if it was a BDC.....

The domain controller has to be the master browser by definition , os version not an issue , a win2000 server will happily recognise an NT4 server which is a domain controller as the Master Browser

the conflict (elections) TAKE place on the Domain Controller ad feed down the network.

until they are resolved there the XP machines will get confused to say the least. As wins runs on the Domain Controller I have been egging him there to see if it has a dodgy database of PDC and BDC type machines because it is between these the elcetions take place.

The server manage shows nothing that may be a suspect but at this point I would stop the wins service altogether on his server and rename wins.mdb to something else.

I would reboot the server

Then I would check the event log to see if the Browser Elections have stopped.

M

Occidental

Originally posted by coupe 02
premature, i was very premature

as said i replaced the hosts file it now reads

192.168.0.1 walshdesign #PRE #DOM:domain
192.168.0.1 "domain \0x1b" #PRE
is this correct?

Good morning.

Going by what you have listed above, I would expect 192.168.0.1 to be the IP for your server and walshdesign to be your server machine name? Have you also edited the network file to add the domain name and local IP group as shown earlier.

Last off, I'd try the WINS suggestion from Muck. Have seen a local election bun fight on a server with two ethernet cards before and it does screw up comms with the server.

coupe 02

turned on my workstation this am and the thing is just hanging non stop, its the only one ive changed in the office.

should the network file read
192.168.0.1 walshdesign
192.168.0.1 domain.

I cant seem to see any thing in wins manager, ive clicked on the "walshdesign" in winsserver and nothing has appeared. I was only used to exchange 2000 server and i dont know whats what in nt4. Should all the pcs be static mapped.
when i go to the local database in wins i have two mappings

logo versionid
a single pc picture - walshdesign(01h) 192.168.0.1 If6 unique

logo
series of pcs - walshdesign(03h) 192.168.0.1 3 multihomed

both due to expire on the 7/10/02

coupe 02

i can buy ex-vat ram as follows

p4
128mb - €39.90
256mb - €69.00
512mb - €150

p3
128mb - €30.00
256mb - €49.00
512mb - €150.00

anything cheaper than that id jump at.

Occidental

No

Your network file should read

192.168.0 walshdesign


where 192.168.0 is your IP address group and "walshdesign" is your domain name.

Defenistrator

wins

all blank bar
enable lmhosts lookup
netbios setting is ticked to default

you seem to have WINS running on your NT server, but don't seem to be letting your XP boxes know where it is..why not?

I have had this problem in the past. Logons would take for ever, and accessing network resources would take just as long. As one of the other posters mentioned, I had the primary DNS on my workstation pointing at the DNS of my ISP. I now have Workstation DNS pointing at my BDC(win2kServer) which is running DNS Server and all is fine. logons and browsing works fine.

Also AFAIK when you use lmhosts to inform your local machine of the domain controller the name between the quotes has tp be EXACTLY 20 chars long. ie: "walshdesign /1bh" so you need 5 spaces between walshdesign and /1bh. According to MS it won't work otherwise.

d.

ando

First off, rename your hosts file to lmhosts

192.168.0.1 walshdesign #PRE #DOM:domain
192.168.0.1 "domain \0x1b" #PRE


The Domain-name in this entry is case sensitive. Make sure you enter it in upper case

192.168.0.1 walshdesign #PRE #DOM:DOMAIN
192.168.0.1 "DOMAIN \0x1b" #PRE

Spacing of these entries is imperative. There must be a total of 20 characters within the quotations (the domain name plus the appropriate number of spaces to pad up to 15 characters plus the backslash plus the NetBIOS hex representation of the service type).

After you have saved and put the file into the right folder (C:\WINNT\system32\drivers\etc), then go into a command prompt and type:

nbtstat -R (CASE SENSITIVE)

after typing that in, you should get a responce saying:
"Successful purge and preload of the NBT Remote Cache Name Table" NOw log out and try loggin in again


Also, on the XP machines, go into command prompt and type:

'Ipconfig/flushdns'


EDIT, for some reason, the forum will not let me put in 20 charactors including spaces into that example hosts file

ando

I've attached my own working LMHOSTS file to this post. I had to put the .txt on the end to make it a valid file to upload, so if you want to copy it, make sure to take out the extention

spongebob

See Here and contains some data on Wins as follows

For WINS, read the following Microsoft Knowledge Base article:Q269424 WINS Prepend1BTo1CQueries Feature Aids Load-Balancing
Stack the WINS 1C list on WINS servers with static registrations for Windows 2000 or Windows NT 4.0 domain controllers to be used for logon authentication.
The the NETBIOS node type, this is configurable through DHCP options on DHCP servers or the Windows registry that defines the order and type of name resolution clients that are used to discover domain controllers.

also see Here if it gets hairy

As I said all along I think that the problem is essentially on the server and involves wins and maybe dhcp . Once resolved, maybe with those 1C entries referred to above, the XP workstations will find the pDC and all will be well (fast)

Yes, do use lmhosts instead of hosts

Defenistrator said

you seem to have WINS running on your NT server, but don't seem to be letting your XP boxes know where it is..why not?

Indeed. Did you ever inform the XP systems of the whereabouts of the wins server as in IP address through the DHCP server as they picked up an IP and THEN switch to static ip's ?

M

coupe 02

i had the server ip filled in as prefered dns, but the fella who setup the server came in after we got xp and took it out.

my pc is unworkable at the moment after doing so much, the dialog box after i nbtstat -R never popped up, it said it done the flush dns successfully

I dont know how to point all the pc's to the server advise!

ando

Originally posted by coupe 02
the dialog box after i nbtstat -R never popped up

well then your lmhosts file is not in the right format. Delete the hosts file, download the lmhosts file i attached earlier and put in your own details remember to but 20 charactor spaces between the two commas, including letters and numbers

coupe 02

I have never went near the server as i would void our maintainance contract so as far as i know
Windows Nt4.0 has never been upgraded with any domain controllers or anything, the swerver is the same way as it was when installed first day, should i chnage things here, im clean out of ideas, ive been trying sio many ways now i just need a step by step of how to get it working
Can anyone help, i know thats a bit irish now but im trying to get 3 planning permission submissions in this week as well and i know im going to be applying for permission to construct domains and everything


nbtstat -R black dos box just flicks for a milli second

Defenistrator

all this talk about LMhosts and WINS is getting confusing. IMHO you use one or the other, if you use WINS, there should be no need to LMHOSTS, in your case anyway, you are not on a routed network.

personally I would dump the lmhosts altogether, WINS will take care of all your naming services, IF you let the XP boxes know where to find the sucker!

you also mentioned the fact that your NT server is multihomed.is this your internet router? are you experiencing DNS/routing problems as was posted before the LMhosts/WINS confusion started?

post an "ipconfg /all" , a "route print" and a "nbtstat -n" for YOUR workstatipn and for the server.

any naming info you can get would also be interesting "nbtstat -n" for example

d.

Defenistrator

on second thought, modify the ISP's IP's if you do post your routing table, don't want every skript kiddie out there trying to "root" your box, now do you ;-)

d.

ando

here, try this one. I'm not 100% sure its corrent, just put it in the etc folder and do the nbtstat -R.... mess around with it until you do get the right message.

BTW, you run nbtstat -R in the command prompt

deckie27

Well Coup
How are you getting on ?