I really dont like eircom very much.

popinfresh

Now I'm no financial expert..But what could Eircom be gaining by charging what they are for ADSL?? there are always going to get some hardcore intrenet users who'll buckle under the pressure and hand out the money, but there's not a chance in hell the average Tom Dick and Harry is going to fork out é90 a month for slightly faster porn. I specifically remember this time last year talking to several people who didn't know anything about computers. But they seemed optimistic about getting ADSL (when I told him it was going to be about é40 a month).But when eircom announced their tarrifs, they (and me) decided that eircom could go and shove their DSL up their arse. é30-é40 is what they should be charging. Surely if they dropped their prices down to about that, they'd make up for their losses with more people signing up. And with things as they are, should anybody offer an alternative to ADSL, I'm gonna piss on my next Eircom bill and disconnect. Even if they drop their prices, I'm gonna disconnect just outta spite..

damnyanks

I'd say thats pretty much the same opinion as most of us here

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by popinfresh
Surely if they dropped their prices down to about that, they'd make up for their losses with more people signing up.

Yeah, I made the same point on this forum before as well. At the time I used the analogy of the old Soviet Union's way of doing things, i.e. they used to always put their eggs in one basket and build one great big factory producing cars, clothes, and other goods rather than several smaller ones. However, if that one big factory burned down or something, they would be royally screwed. At least with several smaller factories, if anything happened to one at least they'd have others to continue the work and take up the slack.

It seems to me, as I stated on that other thread at the time, that Eircom seem to be thinking along the same lines as the Soviets, i.e. get a handful of cutomers at a large price. They really should have gone with the other option of a lower price and attract a whole ton of customers. In fact, just like the Soviet technique of the "one big factory", Eircom's policy of going for a large price has backfired completely as recent figures show that less than 1000 users have signed up for Eircom's ADSL service, and a significant amount of those are trialists who got bitten by the ADSL bug during the trials and couldn't face going back to 56K dial-up and signed up for the over-priced ADSL service anyway. I'm sure Eircom knew that a higher price would mean less customers but they sure as hell didn't think it would be this low (perhaps they thought we were all stupid enough to pay for ADSL at any cost but, I'm sorry Eircom, we're not!). As a result, they are really going to struggle to recoup all the money they say they spent in rolling out DSL if the numbers remain so low.

All they had to do was look across at the UK to see that lower prices encourage a larger take-up of DSL. However, as per usual, Eircom just can't see what is blantantly obvious to everybody else and, as a result, Eircom's ADSL will end up a complete failure unless they drop their prices significantly and quickly.

ando

Eircom are greedy Retarts

I found that out when I got my first Isdn bill :eek:

Canadian

Eircom is a company who's ONLY responsibility is to its shareholders. They don't owe US a damn thing.

If OPEL wanted to sell Astras at €100,000 that would be entirely up to them. Not greedy, just not competitive. They would go bankrupt tho as no one would buy their offerings...

HANG ON - We don't have a choice! There is only ONE telecom company here.... so it's not just a COMPANY, it's a PUBLIC UTILITY.

WAIT - that was Telecom Eiriann, not Eircom.

So what we have here is a PUBLIC ASSET which has been GIVEN to PRIVATE INVESTORS which goes UNGREGULATED and EXTORTS CITIZENS who have NO CHOICE.

I call that Communism. Comrad Bertie at the helm.

Why would the Irish Goverment allow this to happen? Only for personal gain.

The stench of corruption is everywhere.

MrPudding

Firstly let me state that I am not a supporter of €ircon. What would happen if dsl was really cheap? There would be massive take up of the service. Can the network infrastructure take it? I think we have to give serious consideration to the idea that the price may be high because they are scared of humiliating themselves. Imagine the embarrassment if there entire network fell over because of DSL demand. Don’t get me wrong they are greedy tossers but I think there may be more to it.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by MrPudding
Firstly let me state that I am not a supporter of €ircon. What would happen if dsl was really cheap? There would be massive take up of the service. Can the network infrastructure take it?

I would imagine so. There's a vast amount of underused fibre in the ground, particularly in the Dublin area. DSL enables the home user to connect with this. There is no shortage of infrastructure, but access to this infrastructure is being limited.

LoBo

Originally posted by Canadian
Eircom is a company who's ONLY responsibility is to its shareholders. They don't owe US a damn thing.

If OPEL wanted to sell Astras at €100,000 that would be entirely up to them. Not greedy, just not competitive. They would go bankrupt tho as no one would buy their offerings...

HANG ON - We don't have a choice! There is only ONE telecom company here.... so it's not just a COMPANY, it's a PUBLIC UTILITY.

WAIT - that was Telecom Eiriann, not Eircom.

So what we have here is a PUBLIC ASSET which has been GIVEN to PRIVATE INVESTORS which goes UNGREGULATED and EXTORTS CITIZENS who have NO CHOICE.

Well said. I completely agree with the above.

BoneCollector

In short! (just read my tagline )

seamus

Well, the 'sell loads at less' is a common good practice thing in business. The guy who owns Ryanair (forget his name), said he would 'rather sell 100 seats on a plane at £10 each, than 10 seats at £100 each'. What's the difference here? He's still making the same amount of money isn't he? No. More people on board = more stuff sold on board, and more customers likely to come back. It's obviously worked for him, just look at Ryanair now.

If eircom lowered their prices for ADSL now, they would make even more on winbacks and line rental. But then of course it's eircom. Prudence and good business practice are forbidden words in their halls :rolleyes:.

tHE vAGGABOND

So what we have here is a PUBLIC ASSET which has been GIVEN to PRIVATE INVESTORS which goes UNGREGULATED and EXTORTS CITIZENS who have NO CHOICE.

rofl

You should be on stage

Kix

Originally posted by Canadian
I call that Communism. Comrad Bertie at the helm.

Well you shouldn't, because it isn't anything like communism. At all.

K

Canadian

Yeah - a few minutes after that rant I did realize that myself. True communism is very different.

I shall rephrase.... "The current situation reminds me of several Totalitarian regimes which keep the public poor and stupid, while reaping the rewards for the elite few".

Perhaps "African Dictatorship" is a better phrase-

Apologies to closet political scientists everywhere.

Fallschirmjager

the ryanair comparison says it for me...

dahamsta

I shall rephrase.... "The current situation reminds me of several Totalitarian regimes which keep the public poor and stupid, while reaping the rewards for the elite few". Perhaps "African Dictatorship" is a better phrase-

Africa? Sounds like Home Sweet Home to me. Now, where's my Charvais shirt...

adam

l3rian

good post Canadian

Fallschirmjager

LOL love the shirts...but hey how about this


BEN, thanks big fella...



at least we outed that MFker

Ste-

Originally posted by MrPudding
€ircon

says it all really dosnt it.

surprized they havent changed the logo yet.....

Hannibal_12

This is well worn ground indeed. Most of this has been said before and nothing ever seems to change.€ircon have no responsibilty to the public at large only to their investors(Sad but true). 1000 DSL connections is probably where it will remain for the foreseeable future. Its depressing really when you think of the possibilities that an always on high speed connection can provide and how it enhances the overall net experience. Its especially sad when you look at other European countries and compare them to the disgrace we have here.
As was said before also the reason €ircon may not be lowering DSL is because people would abandon dial-up and perhaps their per minute robbery is just too lucrative too give up.?

Lemming

We should change the title of this thread to "EirCom are greedy, MYOPIC retards".

They rang yesterday, trying to get my mum interested in "Hi-Speed". She duly told them that she'd pass them onto me.

Basically the whole conversation went someting like this

Rep: "have you ever considered getting hi-speed internet access"

me: "yes. I've looked at ADSL"

Rep: "How did trhat work out?"

me: "The pricing is OBSCENE considering the service restrictions (ie. the cap) and until those issues are addressed I will be staying away from it like the plague. if another company offers it befoire you, i will not hesitate in removing my business from your company"

Rep: "havbe you considered Hi-S...."

me: "No. It's too expensive, out of date and only marginally faster then dialup at 64kb"

Rep: "oh .. ok"

Me: "BUT in the mean-time I would be VERy interested in flat-rate dial-up"

At this mention she seemed to sit up and take notice. She did admit that she was only there to try and sell me ISDN though.

FFS... talk about trying to flog a dead-horse. At no point did she attempt to mention the fact that in order to use 128kb you are using TWO phonelines at once. ... grrrrrrrr

Fallschirmjager

Sorry Hannibal, but i just dont agree. I think the view Eircon has of Ireland and a lot of people is still marred by a deep insecurity. Someone just explain why in Ireland ony 1000 people will want it. THis is one of the biggest computer capitals in the world. Im in one for the last 17 years FCS! Now lets not be shy or coy or embarassed and say they are jobs going to India, or somewhere else...lets just admit that we have a **** load of IT jobs here. (And this doesnt not count the other people who want it ..--read the other thread about farmers in wales maoning about not access). If it is only 1000 people then Now are we honestly saying that the boom in IT jobs is down to 1000 people...if thats the case i want my taxes reduced -- and **** the rest of ye -- cos it is down to 999 people and me...the celtic TIGER IS MINE AL MINE MUMUMUHAHAHAHAH!!!

Ok agreed it isnt down to that or just me ..it is down to us all from all over the country which is why it pissed me off that everyone just cares if DUBLIN in online -- the should not be the case-- and that is not anti Dublin -- we need somone with a broader image then that. This economy (as i have said a lot here before) is down to IT companies and IT skills and these people will buy this product if given the opportunity...but we are denied this..will it explode as money makeing for eircon -- no -- but no business ever does -- you have to build it and then they will come --

now i want to know is why i cant access the web at 500K or higher at a reasonable price-- oh thats it, because some aresehole in Dublin in Eircon has decided that it is is lossleader..WHY -- where is the proof...if it is such a loss leader why was Eshat free dial so oversubscribed..OK so it does not make money but that is because they have their economic scales incorrect and are not efficiently running their business -- IT IS NOT TO DO WITH LACK OF SUBSCRIBER INTEREST...

Now, please we are an independent state, lets drop the FAMINE victim ****e and lets get on with it...WE JUST NEED SOMEONE WITH BALLS TO SELL IT ..


also name one hardline (i.e. landline) telco company that will be here in 10 years if they do not adopt this market -- companies can not hold the past -- ONLY GO FORWARD...by eircon holding on to 1.25 cent per minute is a recipe for disaster...


NOW WHOS WITH ME...LETS GO...


rant officially over...

Slutmonkey57b

The point about ?ircon's floatation is well made, however the vital point about the difference between Ireland and the UK experience is being missed:

The privatisation model used was copied from the UK, but it did NOT have the backing of political pressure and a strong regulator. BT did exactly what ?ircon do for as long as they could get away with it, but eventually enough pressure was put on politicians by users and competitors for the politicians to put pressure on the regulator which had to cave in and FORCE the local loop to be unbundled.
Result: Cheap ADSL/dialup for all.

You want low cost access and access to the loop? Put pressure on the politicians to change it, is the way the system is supposed to work. The problem is that the politicians here will NEVER do what's good for the public. As long as proportional representation guarantees opposition parties power without actual effort, or even votes, then where's the incentive to listen to the public?

WhiteWashMan

what do you propose that eircom do?

you cant stop them from trying to make money.

what solution would you put forward to make using their service more enjoyable for you?

Frank Grimes

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
you cant stop them from trying to make money.

Agreed. And when there's little to no competition, any company will do their best to make as much as they can out of the situation. Whatever the rights or wrongs might be.

segadreamcast

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

you cant stop them from trying to make money.

Surely Esat could...if they'd take their thumb out...

dahamsta

Two words boys and girls: Social. Responsibility. We're not in a Bond movie, we're in the Real World[TM].

adam

Dustaz

Originally posted by dahamsta
Two words boys and girls: Social. Responsibility. We're not in a Bond movie, we're in the Real World[TM].

adam

Ah now come on adam, Social Responsibility and Corporate Policy? please.

Occidental

Eircom are exactly the same as Aer Lingus before the advent of Ryanair. A lazy bloated company with an ethos of maximum profit for minimum effort. Low cost ADSL would incur lots of effort, for a possible slight increase in profit. Far better to introduce high cost ADSL, muddy the waters and carry on milking people for a few more years.

Adam,

Social. Responsibility.

I'd say even the Eircom lackeys pissed themselves when they read that

dahamsta

They may find it funny, but they're the guys who'll be first against the wall. Like I said, this is the Real World; eventually, it's going to catch up to them. Eventually, I'm going to catch up to them.

No Logo

adam

Occidental

But do you really think they give a damn. Do you believe that the management of Eircom actually have any interest in the future of Telecoms in Ireland or indeed anywhere else. They are sitting on a pile of property and infrastructure, a pile of cash and a pile of reluctant but captive customers. All they have to do for the next few years is hold the market where it is and not bleed too much profitible business. Then when the global telecoms market recovers they can flog it for a fortune and someone else can drag the company back to reality. I’d love to be proved wrong, but I firmly believe that the current owners of Eircom spotted a bargain and that they are on a damage limitation exercise until Telecoms stocks come back into fashion.

If you’ve got a different view on this I’d love to hear it (not taking the piss).

dahamsta

But do you really think they give a damn.

Nope. But they'll learn someday.

adam

Occidental

But surely that’s the problem, they won’t. At the top are the management don’t give a damn, and intend to be long gone before anyone gets to line them up against a wall. In the middle you have the old staff with their legendary job guarantees who also don’t give a damn (been milking the company for decades and will continue to do so until they retire). If the going gets too tough they will simply take redundancy and leave with a final lump of flesh. At the bottom you have the new staff who are expected to do all the work, while being shat on by both the management and the old staff (and therefore fairly quickly don’t give a damn either).

I can quite easily imagine another Telco buying Eircom in the next three or four years. Shortly after they will change the name, change the management, all the bitterness and hate will vanish and we will give them yet another chance. After all, the company will no longer be Eircom and all the people who screwed us for so many years will be long gone.

God, this is depressing

aidan_dunne

Originally posted by Occidental
Eircom are exactly the same as Aer Lingus before the advent of Ryanair. A lazy bloated company with an ethos of maximum profit for minimum effort. Low cost ADSL would incur lots of effort, for a possible slight increase in profit. Far better to introduce high cost ADSL, muddy the waters and carry on milking people for a few more years.

That's a pretty good point, Occidental. Look at Aer Lingus. They're in deep $hit at the moment and their ethos has started to seriously backfire on them. They sat back and let things carry on as they were and refused to change with the times. The result? Now they're on the verge of collapse.

Just this week Ryanair posted another profit. Love them or hate them, you have to give them credit for managing to continue posting profits at a time when the airline industry is in a bad spot. They did the complete opposite of Aer Lingus and managed to change with the times and, as a result, they're flying along (pardon the pun! ).

As you say, Eircom are like Aer Lingus, a big fat lazy fatcat who doesn't care about anything but milking the customers for as much moola as they can. Particularly in the area of ADSL, the analogy is perfect. Ryanair has operated on the "tons of cheap seats" policy and it has worked, they're making lots of money and have lots of customers. If Eircom did the same thing with ADSL and lowered the price to attract more customers, they'd make a whole ton more money than they are at the moment. Their current Aer Lingus-style policy of pricing it ridiculously high is not going to attract customers.

Eircom need to change from being like Aer Lingus to being more like Ryanair if they want to survive because they are not going to survive in the marketplace if they continue with their old, stodgy, fatcat way of doing things. They need to get leaner and meaner and more fast paced, just like Ryanair.

PiE

Got the new eircom Phone Book today, gotta love how they dont even mention the existence of ADSL in the Products & Services section, where they plug ISDN.

Yah, you're really trying to sell it arent u guys.

popinfresh

you cant stop them from trying to make money.

But that's where the word "retarts" comes into the equation. If they drop their prices, more people will sign up and hence more money for eircom. Being an Eircom shareholder, I would rather they dropped the ADSL tarrifs, so that i can get descent internet connection and so that Eircom will be more profitable. All they have to do to get lots of people to sign up is give people a good deal..

Dustaz

Originally posted by popinfresh


But that's where the word "retarts" comes into the equation. If they drop their prices, more people will sign up and hence more money for eircom. Being an Eircom shareholder, I would rather they dropped the ADSL tarrifs, so that i can get descent internet connection and so that Eircom will be more profitable. All they have to do to get lots of people to sign up is give people a good deal..

2 things
1. Your not an eircom shareholder

2. They make more of a profit from selling adsl at that price and letting ppl pay by the minute when they dial up at 56k and isdn.

segadreamcast

Hmmmm... Eircom say they are advertising ADSL...yet, I see FAR more advertising for their new digital cordless phone, and those things have been around for years - hardly groundbreaking stuff? TV, Radio, Posters, D'unbelievables, leaflets with your phone bills yada yada yada...

Also, someone above mentioned 'loss leader' and seemed to be misusing the term - basically a loss leader is the first generation of a product until it makes back what has been spent on creating it (i.e. the xbox is a loss leader because Microsoft will only make the money back on games) so technically, right now, i-stream is a loss leader.

sceptre

Originally posted by dahamsta
They may find it funny, but they're the guys who'll be first against the wall. Like I said, this is the Real World; eventually, it's going to catch up to them. Eventually, I'm going to catch up to them.
No Logo

Ah, Naomi Klein's call to arms. Bedroom reading for the budding anarchist/marcher/rioter/general do-gooder. Loved it.

I think in the long run (which unfortunately is too bloody long imho) it will catch up to them. For a few reasons.

Given/Assumed:
Eircom is a company that overprices its products and relies on an effective monopoly and the ignorance of a general public that doesn't appear to know better (having little consumer choice) for its own fiscal health and survival.


From that I can conclude:
If people realise that they are getting little product choice, at an overpriced cost, AND there is an alternative product offering better value of which they are aware, Eircom will lose market share rather quickly.

At the moment there isn't really an alternative product offering better value.

DSL isn't available everywhere. The main competitors are limited to Limerick (and Ballina soon) in the case of Esat, the southeast in the case of Chorus, Dublin on the case of Leap and their ilk.

With regard to the regular phone products, Chorus appear to have a somewhat temperamental product that appears to be limited to people who are willing to take up their cable TV service. Esat offer proper competition to Eircom but their pricing structure isn't sufficiently cheaper than Eircom's to offer a real alternative, plus there's the call setup charge on every call. The one advantage they do seem to offer is treating a national call as a local call, but they fail here for two reasons - firstly they fail to advertise this properly, secondly many home users simply don't make very many daytime calls (the advantage disappears at night)

On an advertising level, Eircom are knig. Persnoally I may hate their adverts (and I do) but they advertise like crazy. They've flooded the airwaves and billboards pimping their products. It's almost impossible for Joe Soap to ignore it. As a result when Joe is getting in a new phone line, because he can only order it from Eircom (with the obvious proviso attached to Chorus above), he has to make a second decision to switch to Eircom. Lots of people don't make second decisions. Plus because of the advertising, Eircom have associated themselves with the Internet in Ireland. For many people, Eircom provide the Internet and well, that's it really.

So the solution/resolution?

If Esat (and others) can provide alternative products that offer obvious advantages over the Eircom products AND advertise them to raise public awareness that there is in fact an alternative with an advantage, firstly the public will become aware of this.

Also on a secondary level, PC shops that love adding a modem to a PC when they're pushing it out the door will be able to say "well, actually, the Internet isn't as expensive as you think. Look at this product here, see how cheap it is?"

On a tertiary level, many techy types have friends that won't even consider buying a DVD player without talking to "the source" - the friend they have that knows all things technical. The techy friend (and many of them are on this forum) will obviously push them towards the product that is cheaper, better and more user friendly. This is what, to a great extent, happened with NoLimits. Esat ran a few press adverts for the service but most of the user base seemed to come on board through word of mouth. Esat's mistake at the time was that they failed to follow through with additional advertising to raise the profile of the service with the general public (though, as it was intended as something of a loss-leader, perhaps they didn't want to set the market on fire before they needed to).

Esat eventually had an additional problem. Eircom was owned by the people that used Eircom as their phone provider. Most Eircom shareholders might not have considered using a competing company as their phone/internet provider as they would effectively be taking money from their own pockets and giving it to a private concern. Add to that that Esat was then taken over by BT and basically became a foreign company (though obviously a foreign company employing a lot of Irish people). This potential advantage has been lost by Eircom as Irish plebs no longer own it (though there does seem to be a core group of people who are convinced they are still shareholders - it's a bigger number than peole think - last I heard there were still 50,000 shareholders who hadn't reclaimed their cash)

So with the ownership advantage lost, if the competing companies can come up with products that offer an advantage over those offered by the Big Bad Monopoly and manage to have people hear about it, the market may turn relatively quickly.

And LLU is fairly important for that to happen. In the UK, with a more dense population for the greater part (at least in most of England), companies can offer a product in tandem with BT. In Ireland, with a telecoms regulator that doesn't appear to want to do much to solve the situation, a government that appears to be happy to wait to enact EU Directives that are alredy available for all to read and an incumbent national monopoly of a telecoms provider that will own the phone lines until they rot, LLU may be the one real possibility we have of change to the status quo while the three groups I've just mentioned seem happy with the ever annoying status quo.

Meanwhile companies like Microsoft (OT: another company that all the above statements could be applied to) are expanding their operations elsewhere rather than in the self styled "ehub of Europe"

More to come later: these are comments (not a rant) for now

Storm the barricades? Where do I sign up?

(edit)
Reading Noel's comment, I'm using "loss-leader" in the sense of getting a market share that will be of use in maintaining that market share at a profit when the market costs become such that the product can become profitable OR selling a product at a loss in order to make back the cash on selling additional products to that customer at a profit, using the customer base as leverage. Perfectly acceptable definition (but I'm obviously correctable on that)
(/edit)

Magic Monkey

Originally posted by sceptre

Esat offer proper competition to Eircom but their pricing structure isn't sufficiently cheaper than Eircom's to offer a real alternative, plus there's the call setup charge on every call.

Yeah, but Esat's ADSL services are uncapped. Most (all?) i-stream users (solo/multi) are annoyed at the download cap - they have to be careful of going over it or risk forking out mucho moolah, and splashing out for the 'enhanced' service isn't worth it (FAR too expensive).

AFAIK, Esat are offering better upstream speeds on their services (I think the most basic one is ~€100 a month, 512kbps/256kbps, no cap). I reckon, seeing as there isn't a great price difference, that once Esat comes to the same areas as Eircom that are offering ADSL, users will plump for ESAT, because there's no cap.

sceptre

Originally posted by Magic Monkey


Yeah, but Esat's ADSL services are uncapped. Most (all?) i-stream users (solo/multi) are annoyed at the download cap - they have to be careful of going over it or risk forking out mucho moolah, and splashing out for the 'enhanced' service isn't worth it (FAR too expensive).
(snipped the end)

Oh, you're absolutely correct, MM. I was speaking specifically about regular phone products (calls) there.

Mentioned Esat's DSL offering just above - the disadvantage with that at the moment is that it's only available in Limerick (and perhaps Ballina by now). At the moment they're not competition to Eircom outside these areas (to be precise they're not scompetition in these areas either as Eircom haven't launched there).

The point you make is very valid though (as well as true) - the Esat product offers more than the Eircom one at about the same price. And when Eircom and Esat are competing for the same market, assuming the products remain the same, anyone aware of the Esat offering won't go anywhere near Eircom for their DSL.

Magic Monkey

Originally posted by sceptre

Mentioned Esat's DSL offering just above - the disadvantage with that at the moment is that it's only available in Limerick (and perhaps Ballina by now). At the moment they're not competition to Eircom outside these areas (to be precise they're not scompetition in these areas either as Eircom haven't launched there).

Yeah, I thought it strange that Esat are doing outside Dublin and Eircom doing, err, inside Dublin simultaneously. Esat are allegedly providing ADSL in Dublin at the end of this year. I reckon there's some (sinister?) reason for this. Like, charging you to change over to Esat when they eventually come into Dublin.

I also heard that for each 24 ADSL connections in a certain area, they go into a 7' high DSLAM box at the exchange, which has (get this) a 1 *Mbit* line back to Eircom, but I don't know if that's true or not...

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Magic Monkey
Yeah, I thought it strange that Esat are doing outside Dublin and Eircom doing, err, inside Dublin simultaneously. Esat are allegedly providing ADSL in Dublin at the end of this year. I reckon there's some (sinister?) reason for this. Like, charging you to change over to Esat when they eventually come into Dublin.[/b]

Grant aid could be part of the reason. I believe Eircom are getting grants for installing DSL in other areas.

WhiteWashMan

do most of you have any idea how much like a bunch of screaming girls you sound like?

its all fine to bítch about it, but what do you propose?

what do you think should happen?

how should eircom realistically change their structure to benefit everyone?

youre not oging to get anything to happen unless there is a win-win situation going on.

stop bleating aobut the wrong of life, and start thinking abot how to make changes, or at least put forward some suggestions and stop acting like deer caught in headlights.

in other words...

put up, or shut up.

El_MUERkO

I'm gonna disconnect just outta spite..

As soon as leap make there SOHO service available in D9 I'm gone.

LoBo

well said sceptre (re: your long post)

Slutmonkey57b

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
what do you think should happen?

how should eircom realistically change their structure to benefit everyone?

youre not oging to get anything to happen unless there is a win-win situation going on.

As I mentioned before, British consumers got something to happen that was definantly NOT what the monopoly provider wanted. The statutory tools exist to force a change of situation, they're merely not being used. If the government was serious about this e-hub business, adsl rollout, flatrate dialup etc would already be in effect because the regulator would have said "switch on those exchanges in 12 months time or we'll fine you a million a day."
Talk to your TD.

Matfinn

its almost been a year since eircom first launched ADSL onto the market. Nowgranted they had a legal struggle with the ODT over their pricing plans, but has any progress been made on the rollout of DSL since. I know they say it has been enabled in select Dublin exchanges, but that was a year ago. have they done anything to rollout DSL in the other parts of the country? I was thinking that they couldhave concentrated on rolling out DSL to other cities and towns while they were in their legal dispute, in order to get it done while they had alot of resources.

Just curious

Matt

gurramok

As I mentioned before, British consumers got something to happen that was definantly NOT what the monopoly provider wanted

It was a media led campaign(CUT helped as well) that brought pressure upon the gov over there. I remember the Sunday Times as one of the newspapers at the spearhead of the campaign to bring 56k flatrate to the masses. They even had a forum about it on their website

That is the missing element here, practically no-one in media circles is highlighting the issue....not surprising with Tony O'Reilly at the helm of Independent newspapers and considerable influence in Eircon/Chorus.

ando

argh.. got my phone bill today... €398 :eek:


:eek: :eek:


*because*

Downgrade isdn to pstn, get pstn line tested for dsl.. failed.. failed again.. failed 3 times.. upgrade to isdn.. 2 months surfing.... €398 ... ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

segadreamcast

Originally posted by ando
Downgrade isdn to pstn, get pstn line tested for dsl.. failed.. failed again.. failed 3 times.. upgrade to isdn.. 2 months surfing.... €398 ... ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH

:-\ Downgrade isdn to pstn, get pstn line tested for dsl...passed...order it...it fails some other test upon the day of installation...2 months surfing *Cries*

:P Eircom must be making a wad of cash off all this messing with ISDN and PSTN lines.

dahamsta

Great post sceptre. I just don't have the energy these days...

Ah, Naomi Klein's call to arms. Bedroom reading for the budding anarchist/marcher/rioter/general do-gooder. Loved it.

Anarchists are muppets, I'm too lazy to march, I'm a pacifist, and I /really/ don't want to be called a "do-gooder"; so let's just settle on "activist" for now, kay? Kay.

Storm the barricades? Where do I sign up?

All in good time dear boy, all in good time. We'll start with the K Club, kay? Kay.

heh

adam