TV Licensce Increase

irishgeo

Would you like the licensce fee to go up and allow RTE to be able to offer interactive fetaures etc. Perhaps new channles.

What i am asking is would you like to see the licensce go up for a better service.

ShaneOC

The options are too black and white. You should specify a range of potential increases. Maybe €25, €50 and €75.

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by irishgeo
Would you like the licensce fee to go up and allow RTE to be able to offer interactive fetaures etc. Perhaps new channles.

i would agree with a small increase. no where near what they asked for though. the channels they have already should be sorted out before adding any new channels. and content is more important than any interactive features IMO

I would give them a €50 increase only if this was in tandem with an equivalent improvement in effeciency at the station, ie RTÉ would have to cutback on all the wastage in there, resulting in a saving equivalent to the increase in licence income, both of which could be invested in an interactive service.
As minister for nice things, I would at the same time at the governments expense , make the licence free to all who qualify for a medical card.
I would instruct the junior minister in my department of nice things to Shake up the BCI and outlaw red tape.
Lastly I would organise my good pals in the department of progress and modernisation to underwrite the borrowing of any commercial company that guaranteed nationwide Broadband.
mm

Cork

Today Fm & TV3 are just as entitleled to the licence fee if they provide public sector broadcasting.

I think the licence fee as adequate for RTE as they are a commercial organisation.

Elmo

Today Fm & TV3 are just as entitleled to the licence fee if they provide public sector broadcasting.

TV3 provide PBS when i didnt see it s h i t missed that, was that when they made Prime time Irish TV i nearly missed that but got to see Haunted House and emm The Weakest Link (Was the Weakest Link a PBS for overated wantabe contraversal figures????)

Today FM tried to be a PBS but failed because most people listen to Local radio and RTE. They at least do a good job with some good shows on their Radio station. Also did they invest money into Lyric FM or something ?(retorical sacrastic question)

I think the TV liences has to be sorted out as a matter of national importance other wise we will be left with absolutly no Irish Prime TV.

But please dont go around thinking that TV3 are the bees knees when they produce very little programming, It is discusting to praise such an organisation that has had no influence on Irish TV what so ever. A TV orgaisation that resembles RTE about 2 years ago (note they show Corronation Street and Champions League they where on RTE before TV3 was ever around was RTE a good TV service then?)

RTE a commercial organisation ????

Fine maybe 2fm, RTE International and N2 but that is about it.

Getting back to the question yes of course RTE should get an Increase.

TV3 need to get of their arse and start making Irish show worth making.

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by Elmo
A TV orgaisation that resembles RTE about 2 years ago (note they show Corronation Street and Champions League they where on RTE before TV3 was ever around

why wouldn't they want to show them. ratings = advertising revenue. it would be a bit stupid if they didn't go for them when they had a chance.

RTE a commercial organisation ????

any channel that shows advertising is IMO a commercial channel. what do RTÉ show before programmes, in the middle of programmes and after programmes, ADVERTS

Elmo

RTE provide 6 mins of advertising on both TV and Radio. They do not show Adverts during 30mins children shows and 2hours of childrens tv is provided with out Adverts(preschool).

TV3 show adds during all childrens TV.
The commercial channel show 9 mins of adds.

RTE make home produced programmes which you cannot make without the TV lience and TV3 have proven that.

TV3 have Corronation and champions League and are considered great for having them (and fair dues to them having them) however RTE where never congradulated or prised for having them on there channels. RTE was still considered crap when they had them, unlike TV3 that can do no wrong.

Cork

Today FM tried to be a PBS but failed because most people listen to Local radio and RTE.

Petsounds & The Last word are the best things on Irish Radio.

Programmes like Liveline are crap. Why should the genrral public have to pay for this.

TV3 is far better than Network 2. Network 2 gets licence money.

RTE1 is a bit of a joke. "Ear to the Ground" is not watched by Farmers. We can get Eastenders on BBC.

RTE is a shambles. Radio Stations & TV companies should be able to apply for licence funds if they are providing public service broadcasting.

Networj 2 & 2fm deserve not a cent.

Elmo

Programmes like Liveline are crap. Why should the genrral public have to pay for this.

This is your opion cork.

RTE1 is a bit of a joke. "Ear to the Ground" is not watched by Farmers. We can get Eastenders on BBC.

Em you can get Corronation Street, Emmerdale, Heartbeat, Bad Girls, Champions League, Cold Feet etc. on UTV does that not make TV3 a bit of a joke when they just are realy an ITV franchise in Ireland.

"Ear To The Ground" are you a farmer Cork. 350,000 viewers watch it??? Maybe their not farmers but they are viewers.

TV3 is far better than Network 2. Network 2 gets licence money

The Den is considered a PBS as it is a TV station for Children. Also em 24, Friends, F1 racing, The Sapranoes, Ally McBeal etc are all very good shows. Also GAA is a PBS as tv3 could never afford to produce it.

Just because TV3 is doing everything N2 where doing up until resently does not make them a good station. N2 have doen well with home produced shows such as Batchlores Walk, The Jason Byrne Show, The Blizzard of Odd, News 2 etc. Note that TV3 dont make any TV shows for Prime time TV this is the reason for them not getting the TV lience cork.

Cork Name one good Irish TV show on TV3 other then, TV3 news, the weakest Link, Adgenda, Haunted House, Sports tonight, the fillers for Matches and Ireland AM. Go on now, go on please did I miss that show did i cork. Oh that one sorry no, what? Is that all????

JTMan

Before there is any increase
- RTÉ must move out of Donneybrook
- 2FM must be sold off
- Serious consideration must be given to selling Network 2
- RTÉ must get out of producing programmes and outsource programme production to others

Elmo

I dont know about selling of n2, I feel if RTE do sell it off the little amount of Irish production that is on n2 will disappear and will just become another British TV station under the disguise of an Irish one.

You all so have to realise that N2 provide Children's TV for 12hrs a day with 4 of those hours free of adds for pre school kids this would certainly change if N2 was to become a private company. Instead of the den we would get sunset beach or some other american day time crap i would rather watch the morbegs or bear in the big blue house.

Maybe if N2 was to rent out its broadcasting space to a consortium of Indep. producers from 7 to 11 each night, rather then selling it off.

Outsoursing is a good idea for feature and drama and has worked well for TG4 it should be applied to RTE. However first you have to get around the unions.

Cork

How can “The Den” be considered public service broadcasting? What is the educational content of Dustin? Why did Rte drop Sesame Street? Should the Irish Government send cheques to Aol/Time Warner’s Cartoon Network? GAA – Public service broadcasting? This is crazy. GAA is sport. If RTE did not cover live games – I am sure TV3 / UTV/Setanta would come to some deal. The GAA highlights programme is stuck in the 1970s. The GAA is not being well served by this.

Programmes like “Buzzard of ODD” are funny but are done cheaply. Prime Time is pretty dire. One of TV3s Agenda programmes is worth about 20 prime times. Shane Ross made some excellent points about RTEs coverage of our recent election.

“Ear to The Ground” needs to provide information for farmers. Information on sprays, book keeping, fertilizers, etc. It needs to act as a programme that will educate farmers.

Let us call a spade a spade. RTE are a commercial organisation. It provides so little public service broadcasting to render the licence fee irrelevant.

While it shows a lot of UK imports & US. Irish programming is very poor. It very often consists of repeats. The only quiz show on RTE is “Who wants to be a millionaire”. While RTE does give good coverage to boybands – there is no programme to Irish musical talent. There is no consumer programme. There is no Movie review programme. Intact, the cupboard is quiet bare when it comes to Irish produced programmes.

If you want TV3 to produce Irish programmes – Give them the licence fee. They are every bit as entitled to it as RTE.

I surpose, people will say the “Fame Game”, “Treasure island”, Popstars &. “Fame & Fortune” is public service broadcasting

RTE – is a commercial station. If it is to survive needs talent & imagination. Expecting the Irish people to throw money at it is crazy.

What we need is a commission to administer a TV licence fund. Every broadcasting company can apply for funding. Funding can be permitted – if the project is worthwhile.

byte

Let's face it - they're all good (including TG4) in their own unique way! I like them all anyway!

Elmo

How can “The Den” be considered public service broadcasting?

Weather or not you consider Dustin a educational producted he and Zig and Zag and socky and the rest have entertained Irish Children And Adults. Note that TV3 dont make any Childrens shows at all. It is a PBS because A real commercial company would not be bothered by childrens programming.

Prime Time is pretty dire. One of TV3s Agenda programmes is worth about 20 prime times.

Prime Time Dire when? its good as far as I am concerned just as good a Agenda. Again this is one show TV3 provides.

“Ear to The Ground” needs to provide information for farmers. Information on sprays, book keeping, fertilizers, etc. It needs to act as a programme that will educate farmers.

I hope every farmer in Ireland is offended by you cork, I think most farmers are well educated they dont need the TV to do that for them. Next you'll be saying Our House needs to educate Builders.

I surpose, people will say the “Fame Game”, “Treasure island”, Popstars &. “Fame & Fortune” is public service broadcasting

No I never said this but then their are other shows on RTE other then these which i would consider PBS like READ WRITE NOW, MONO.

GAA – Public service broadcasting? This is crazy. GAA is sport.

The cameras for GAA are provide by RTE this means that RTE provide money for the Rights, Cameras, Cameramen etc, commentators and Annalise. TV3 would not have the Facilities available to them to do such a programme and Setanta just buy the Rights to the matches for over seas. All Irish Sport is A PBS and TV3 have pointed out in their submission to the fourm on Broadcasting. Their The Game On Sunday looks to me like any other sports show with great graphics and sets. It equals and out does Sports Tonight.

While RTE does give good coverage to boybands

Is Lorraine Keane on RTE News I didn't Relise this.

Lets face all programmes made in Ireland are PBS why because It is a waste of money to invest money into Irish TV because you would not get a good enough return for your money. Has RTE ever been profitable with TV.

Let's face it - they're all good (including TG4) in their own unique way!

If they were all more like TG4 they would be far better. Also TV3 is Crap.

Elmo

Shane Ross made some excellent points about RTEs coverage of our recent election.

And what did he have to say about TV3's coverage??????

RTE and TG4 did a great job with their election coverage. IMO.

This TV3 vs RTÉ discussion is a bit tit for tat for my liking.
I wouldn't like to see TV3 gone.
If one looks at the schedules of the BBC , you would notice that BBC two's schedule is primarily PBS and good too.
In order to allow RTÉ to do a similar job on N2, you would probably have to divert the whole of the national lottery into it.

If you took all the US and GB programming off RTÉ one and kept the licence fee as is, and sold N2...then you could plough the proceeds into more Irish programme making.
The den could move to ONE, to replace murder she wrote and the Bill and there would be no transmission and other costs from N2 as that would be private and stand alone-so plenty saved to fund programming.

2fm should also be sold off, the proceeds and resultant savings again ploughed into radio one.

Once this is done a further sale of some land at Donnybrook would raise funds for an interactive service now that we don't have a full BBCi anymore.
mm

Cork

While, I agree that the Den is probably the best programme on RTE. It is not public service broadcasting. If it is then, the Irish government needs to send a cheque to “The Cartoon” network.

GAA is not public service broadcasting. GAA IS SPORT. I am sure that the BBC does not give a subsidy to SKY SPORTS for its coverage of the premier league.

ER, Friends, Ally Mcbeal are not public service broadcasting. Neither is Fair City. There is no public service broadcasting on 2fm.

I am not anti farmer – when I said that it makes no attempt to train or educate farmers. Farmers need to keep up to date with farming practices. Do they really need a magazine type programme full of fairly soft stories. “Nation-wide” is as hard hitting as an average episode of Prime Time. The days of “talking heads” current affairs are better suited for the radio. We are relying on British Stations to do investigative type programmes. For instance, on abusive priests, Collusion between terrorists and the British Security forces & the Real IRA. RTE have not broken any story since the NIB incident.

Why should the licence fee be Rte’s? Why should RTE get away with putting on foreign trash on our premier station? Why, if RTEs programmes are so brilliant, are they not selling them abroad?

Can anybody remember the name of that rather terrible RTE costume drama with Colm Meaney? As a licence payer am I entitled to know how money this turkey cost?

Elmo

Cork get A life and stop repeating yourself you sound like TV3.


To repeat myself The Den is the only show on Irish TV for Irish Children. (Sorry then there is CULA4).

RTE make

The Morbegs
The Den
Yummie
The Disney Club
Stream
All these programmes cost money to make and it is not in the interest of any Commercial company to make them that is why TV3 don't make any childrens shows.

To repeat myself Champions League was on N2 a few year ago was N2 good then? Answer that question.

To quoat myself about the GAA

The cameras for GAA are provide by RTE this means that RTE provide money for the Rights, Cameras, Cameramen etc, commentators and Annalise.

ER, Friends and Ally Mcbeal are not PBS but neither is Sex in the City, Corronation Street, and every other programme on TV3.

Farmers need to keep up to date with farming practices.

Do farmers not communicat with other farmers and Vets about farming practices.

Again what had shane ross to say about TV3 election Coverage.

Why, if RTEs programmes are so brilliant, are they not selling them abroad?

Wanderlust
A Rebel Heart
DDU and Making the Cut
Rodge And Podge
Gelroe and Fair City
Planet Rock Profiles
Have all been sold aboad. (Note i have not enclude any co-productions, Colm Meany was in the one set in Newfoundland i think and yes it was dreadful, This was a coproduction)

But then most of RTE programmes are for an Irish viewer not a british or american one for example No Tears.

Their documentry series Dear Daughter brought about the other investigation reports into Child Sexual Abuse.

Can anybody remember the name of that rather terrible RTE costume drama with Colm Meaney?

You cann't why should i be bothered.

Why, if RTEs programmes are so brilliant, are they not selling them abroad?

I never said this, why don't TV3 sell their shows abroad if they are so good oh wait they dont make any do they.

funds for an interactive service

I would like to see more Irish TV before an Interactive Service.

BBC two's schedule is primarily PBS

BBC 2 Tend also to repeat alot of their Programmes. But then so do other stations. Stop comparing RTE to the BBC the BBC will always be a head.

Why should RTE get away with putting on foreign trash on our premier station?

RTE are very careful of what foreign imports they show on RTE one you note that ER, The Practice, CIS, etc are on RTE One you'll also note that their is little Imports shown on Prime time on RTE One.

Elmo

Neither is Fair City.

Something i thought TV3 would do when they first started out was a Soap Opera espically as they are so fond of them. And I am angry at TV3 for this major Hecup why? because A TV station called TG4 with very little financial back was able to produce one for the Irish Public Called Ros Na Run (One of the best). Why a commercial company with backing from CanWest and Granda two of the Worlds major Media companies could not even bring themselfs at this stage to make a Soap Opera. If TV3 want to give out about The TV lience they first need to start making Irish Drama and Making a profit to prove that All Irish TV is not a PBS.

Mossy Monk

Elmo, what is your problem with TV3. they don't have the resources that RTÉ have and it costs you nothing

Elmo

My Problem with TV3:-

1. No irish soap opera even going out 1 day a week
2. they have not made RTE get up of there asses enough so much so that this week the number 1 drama on tv is EastEnders.
3. They think they are great for being free any yet they have not provide any kind of Irish TV what so ever the BCI may as well have given Sky the 4th terrestrial Licence.
4. the Irish consortium that were involve with TV3 kept on giving out about RTE yet they have not done as well as RTE ever so far.
5. I would congradulate TV3 if they had as many Irish shows as RTE have on Prime Time TV and then I would let them have some self congradulation.
6. Morning TV is a waste of time and money.
7. Resourse should be there for them as They are backed by Granda and Canwest.
8. They are just an ITV ireland when they start treating Ireland as a seprate country with a different culture then maybe i Might like them.
9. The Idea that they are a better station then RTE is riduculus just because the show champions League and they have Corronation Street and Emmerdale etc etc sure whats the point in that when we can see them on ITV.
10. Need I go on.

byte

Originally posted by Elmo
My Problem with TV3:-

9. The Idea that they are a better station then RTE is riduculus just because the show champions League and they have Corronation Street and Emmerdale etc etc sure whats the point in that when we can see them on ITV.
10. Need I go on.

Umm. Not everyone has the pleasure of ITV. So TV3 is their only option for these. Plus with Champions League, TV3 did show alternate games to ITV and had games on Tuesday whilst ITV didn't show them (ITV2/Sport Channel only). Anyway, as said before, I like em all. 4 channels are better than just the 2 RTÉs monopoly.

sysconp1

When RTE first came about a license fee was justified to allow for the growth and presentation of new services. However as time has gone by the justification for license fees has diminished greatly. There are a number of TV/Radio station that provide their services without the assistance of a license fee.
RTE has, for far too long, had the pleasure of adverts as well as the license fee to generate revenue. If RTE got rid of the "job for life" policy that allows it to retain the deadwood it has working for them, then the overheads may drop and the company may be able to consider a reduction or loss of the license fee altogether.
It is not fair to have RTE's coffers filled by public money whilst the likes of TV3 are able to provide a good service whilst moving towards profitability. RTE should look at its mis-management of its finances before looking towards the public to bail it out again

Elmo

9. The Idea that they are a better station then RTE is riduculus just because the show champions League and they have Corronation Street and Emmerdale etc etc sure whats the point in that when we can see them on ITV.

This came from what cork had said earlier

We can get Eastenders on BBC.

However I do think that this was the biggest mistake that RTE made in a long time and should have allow TV3 have Eastenders, if they wanted them. But then

Not everyone has the pleasure of BBC

pleasure of adverts as well as the license fee to generate revenue.

Its not like the Heads of RTE work to fill their Own pockets. You have to remember RTE employs nearly 2000 employees while TV3 employ 179 employees.

TV3 are able to provide a good service whilst moving towards profitability

They have lost 1.2 million euros in the last eight months while one of their heads was paid 5 million for his share in the company.

Their good service consists of everything that RTE had on up to about 2 years ago If TV3 was to make Irish TV i would praise them.

I agree that it is better to have 4 stations rather then RTE'S 2. I like the fact that i can watch something else instead of Corronation Street and Champions League when they are on thank god.

Originally posted by Elmo
My Problem with TV3:-

1. No irish soap opera even going out 1 day a week
2. they have not made RTE get up of there asses enough so much so that this week the number 1 drama on tv is EastEnders.
3. They think they are great for being free any yet they have not provide any kind of Irish TV what so ever the BCI may as well have given Sky the 4th terrestrial Licence.
4. the Irish consortium that were involve with TV3 kept on giving out about RTE yet they have not done as well as RTE ever so far.
5. I would congradulate TV3 if they had as many Irish shows as RTE have on Prime Time TV and then I would let them have some self congradulation.
6. Morning TV is a waste of time and money.
7. Resourse should be there for them as They are backed by Granda and Canwest.
8. They are just an ITV ireland when they start treating Ireland as a seprate country with a different culture then maybe i Might like them.
9. The Idea that they are a better station then RTE is riduculus just because the show champions League and they have Corronation Street and Emmerdale etc etc sure whats the point in that when we can see them on ITV.
10. Need I go on.

Elmo,
you are being Ridiculous now.
Lets enter the real world.
TV3 operates in the way that it does so as it can maximise profits.
It follows from that , that it must deliver what the viewing public wants.
RTÉ are competing for the same advertising revenue and has the licence fee.
In order for RTÉ to produce pbs, it must also make pbs interesting to the viewers as a whole-this costs too much for tv3.
The fact that TV3 are there in the first place, means that the private sector think they can make money by delivering a product that will attract advertising revenue.
Some like that product and some don't - you obviously don't and thats your problem.
It is a fact that if you forced TV3 to operate in the same way as RTÉ, they would close down.
So no TV3 then???
Soaps are costly to make and don't be giving Ros na Rún as an example, when the most of TG4's output is either licence or Government funded.
mm

Elmo

TG4 have an operating buget of 30,000,000 euros
TV3 have an operating budget of 30,000,000 euros

For the past 40 years people have been giving out about what RTE put on the air, thus in 1978 rte2 came about it nearly went of the air when RTE change its name to Network 2. At the time RTE2 was set up as a PBS service for people who did not receive the british channels from the then RTE Relays. This has change since thank god since most people can if they wish receive some kind of Sat. or Digital or Cable service.

TV3 came along in 1998 just to out bid program that where already on RTE giving the Irish public a choice?????

Now instead of EastEnders being on TV3 it is on RTE now instead of Corronation Street and other granda programmes being on RTE they are on TV3. WOW such change increadable.

I have no problem with TV3 output as far as their British Programming goes as the have the best from Granda. But TV3 insist on calling British programming as European Programming and thus TV3 according to themselfs show 50% European programming on their channel. Note that the spend more on Irish production then on Imports they have 25% Irish programming on their station.

Also I never expected TV3 to go out 24 hours or have a breakfast show on at this early stage i would rather TV3 began at around 2pm and had a drama production on the air for prime time. After all their deal with granda gives the cheap programming from one of the best production house in Britain.

So may i ask the question would you rather a soap opera going out 2 days a week for 35 weeks then a morning show that goes out 5 days a week 52 weeks a year?????????

Well, there must be some extra choice somewhere if the same programmes are now divided between the two channels.
Again soaps are too costly to produce, especially when you consider the size of the audience in Ireland.
TG4 doesn't have to make a profit so Ros na Rún etc is pure pbs.
The cost of Ireland am would come nowhere near the cost of producing a good soap.The loss endured in advertising alone while a new primetime soap would be finding its feet would be prohibitive.

Theres no point in asking whether I'd rather an Irish soap at primetime,as you have to deal with commercial reality here.
It took long enough to get the conditions right for an independent commercial station to justify it's existance.
I would consider any home produced stuff like agenda and it's news output as an added bonus actually.

The real issue in broadcasting here is what to do with RTÉ ie sell off N2 and 2fm, make TG4 the entire responsibility of the Government and have the licence fee funding RTÉ one radio and tv only.There would have to be a close examination of the cost structure left within the remainder of RTÉ before they should get a licence fee rise.Privatising N2 and 2fm would cause an automatic cost restrucuring within those outfits as commercial reality rears it's head.
mm

DMC

Whenever I hear the debate around selling 2FM and Network 2, ffs you are selling off the family silver for short term benefit.

Yes, 2FM is the most profitable station, but if its profits are plowed into keeping 2 national orchestras, a classical music station, a string quartet, a youth choir etc etc, then it is doing good. The licence fee alone cannot keep all of it afloat, so it is only right that for operations that are not seen as PSB are seen to support vital things that our national broadcaster should provide.

Now, I see that most of you don't see Network 2 or 2FM as PSB driven. These channels are aimed at a younger audience.

Take these away from RTÉ, then what have you got?

An organization that is not supporting the younger audience. What you get then, is a lot more antagonism with RTÉ from the 15-30 group, who only see RTÉ as a fuddy-duddy organisation. (who is to say that that is not the case now, but it would be even more so then)

Public Service Broadcasting. Break it down, folks. A broadcasting service for the public. If you take away such a large slice such as services for the 15-30 and choose to dismiss this, then you are only alienating the national broadcaster. I believe that 2FM and Network 2 should be restructured, but definately not sold off for short term gain.

irishgeo

i think RTe should model the BBC. I know they have more money etc. but Jesus look at all they make and NO ads.


RTE needs more money and somebody to go in and do a good at stopping all the money their wasting.

RTE should sell donnybrook and use themoney to run right TV station.

The plans for a sport channel have been shevled and the 24hr news.

I like to see RTE to set up these channels and maybe even make them avilable in england at extra cost. These woould get some money in.


You think how much sport is on RTE and take it all away and you would have loads of room for PBS broadcasting.

RTE needs some more omney but not it they are going to use it to keep a sinking ship afloat.

The RTE ship needs a a refit and a new hull to stop it leaking funds and then a relaunch.

Elmo

I dont think RTE have canned the Idea of a 24 hour News/Sports Service. I beleive they want a Sports/News channel rather then two seprate ones.

N2 would loss may of the Irish shows that they produce if they where to sell it off, and thus what little programming there is made for the 15-45 group will disappear.

TV3 are only in it for the money maybe i should face up to that but I have still give out about their oppoisition to the Lience fee when they have produced very little with out it and this make me come to the conclusion that Irish TV is a PBS in general.

2FM and N2 should be made a profit organisations for RTE while keeping its Irish influences and always being back up by the TV lience if they were ever to get themselves in financial trouble. This would mean that RTE 1 would get rid of all its advertising and RTE would rely on N2, 2FM and partly on Radio One for Commercial Moneys. Prehaps even sell of part of N2 and 2FM to Local Indep. Producers.

RTE should be force to bring up their advertising Rates as Ireland still has the lowest advertising rates in europe.

Originally posted by DamoDMC
Whenever I hear the debate around selling 2FM and Network 2, ffs you are selling off the family silver for short term benefit.

Yes, 2FM is the most profitable station, but if its profits are plowed into keeping 2 national orchestras, a classical music station, a string quartet, a youth choir etc etc, then it is doing good. The licence fee alone cannot keep all of it afloat, so it is only right that for operations that are not seen as PSB are seen to support vital things that our national broadcaster should provide.

Now, I see that most of you don't see Network 2 or 2FM as PSB driven. These channels are aimed at a younger audience.

Take these away from RTÉ, then what have you got?

An organization that is not supporting the younger audience. What you get then, is a lot more antagonism with RTÉ from the 15-30 group, who only see RTÉ as a fuddy-duddy organisation. (who is to say that that is not the case now, but it would be even more so then)

Public Service Broadcasting. Break it down, folks. A broadcasting service for the public. If you take away such a large slice such as services for the 15-30 and choose to dismiss this, then you are only alienating the national broadcaster. I believe that 2FM and Network 2 should be restructured, but definately not sold off for short term gain.

I agree with a lot of what you have said(but not all:D ) Damo,
I think it's wrong actually that 2fm and N2 should be subsidising Public service broadcasting to older people due to their commercial success.
The licence fee and advertising should supply that via RTÉ one radio and tv.
Surely a lot of N2 and 2fm viewers and listeners get something out of the "older output" channels news and current affairs and drama etc. Like their taxes, paying pensions , their portion licence fee's paid are helping to provide a service for their parents age group as well as getting something from their programmes.

The orchestras etc, should be funded by the government through heritage grants,or the lottery,whose role that is, and not by a television licence fee.

It's clear that a lot of programming on both N2 and 2fm is aimed at the young adults and younger.But perhaps the profit from that should be used solely to serve that markets pbs needs.

Me putting foward an extreme option like the sale of those services comes from a negotiating ploy mentality of mine.
Bringing it up, concentrates minds into finding a workable solution to just giving RTÉ more and more funds via the licence fee, without pre-conditions.
N2 and 2fm are currently propping up the ineffecient animal that is RTÉ. A re-structure like you say would be an ideal solution.If I was in charge,I would divert N2 profits into N2 programming.

I don't see the alienation issue as being too big a problem.
Those aged between 40 and 70 and over will always want programmes which are a lot different from those being provided by N2 and 2fm.
And like it or not, those that don't like RTÉ one right now, will grow to like it as they grow older.The fact that younger people,by and large, dislike RTÉ one and radio one shouldn't matter if it's looked at that way, especially with the birthrate declining.
mm

DMC

Originally posted by madman
I agree with a lot of what you have said(but not all:D ) Damo,
I think it's wrong actually that 2fm and N2 should be subsidising Public service broadcasting to older people due to their commercial success.
The licence fee and advertising should supply that via RTÉ one radio and tv.
Surely a lot of N2 and 2fm viewers and listeners get something out of the "older output" channels news and current affairs and drama etc. Like their taxes, paying pensions , their portion licence fee's paid are helping to provide a service for their parents age group as well as getting something from their programmes.

This is the problem. The most valuable market place for advertisers is the 15-40 market. The monies are not that valuable for the over 40's. Not a lot of folk in that younger group are interested in the fine arts.

Splitting the channels into one that is youth and advertised driven and one that is older and licence fee driven, will I feel cause more resentment amongst the younger population. "Hell, I don't listen to Radio 1 or RTÉ 1, why should I pay for it???"

Also, if Network 2 is sold off, is there then a market in this small island for 2 virtual identical channels? That's why I feel that Network 2 and 2FM need the restructuring.

Also, if you were to split the channels, were are all the overlapping programming to go? Take the Sunday of the World Cup final. RTÉ 1 and Network 2 are showing the World Cup Final, the Murphy's Irish Open, 2 GAA games, and not to mention the Irish Derby! RTÉ needs to operate 2 TV channels themselves.

The orchestras etc, should be funded by the government through heritage grants,or the lottery,whose role that is, and not by a television licence fee.

No real problem with that, though if that were to happen, it would going against other state broadcasters around Europe do.

It's clear that a lot of programming on both N2 and 2fm is aimed at the young adults and younger.But perhaps the profit from that should be used solely to serve that markets pbs needs.

Me putting foward an extreme option like the sale of those services comes from a negotiating ploy mentality of mine.
Bringing it up, concentrates minds into finding a workable solution to just giving RTÉ more and more funds via the licence fee, without pre-conditions.

N2 and 2fm are currently propping up the ineffecient animal that is RTÉ. A re-structure like you say would be an ideal solution.If I was in charge,I would divert N2 profits into N2 programming.

This is the argument of short term financial gain, selling off the company silver. I agree RTÉ has a large campus, and that part can and should be sold off but like unlike the sale of Cablelink, this money gained should only be used to finance new facilities, equipment etc etc, and not programming.

I don't see the alienation issue as being too big a problem.
Those aged between 40 and 70 and over will always want programmes which are a lot different from those being provided by N2 and 2fm.

And like it or not, those that don't like RTÉ one right now, will grow to like it as they grow older.The fact that younger people,by and large, dislike RTÉ one and radio one shouldn't matter if it's looked at that way, especially with the birthrate declining.
mm

I feel the alienation would become more and more divisive if N2 and 2FM were sold off. One only has to look at what happened when the New Zealand Government went and almost privatised TVNZ, and the disaster TV in New Zealand became, i.e. 3 of the 4 terrestrial channels aiming at the 15-40 market.

Thats my fear.

All that is true...but you have moved me away from the sale thing already:o in favour of restructuring.
I do feel RTÉ needs a serious looking at, in terms of where the money is going, but then so do most.
If the channels are separate, but under the same umbrella...then the exististing arrangements with sports would continue.
If and I don't know, there is profit being made at N2, then there must be room here for N2 and tv3.

Obviously due to the smaller audience on this island,advertising revenue and a licence fee have to be combined to finance pbs.
The BBC are already splitting their services between older and younger audiences,between high brow and the less high brow.
I still don't think that the age thing is an issue, just as it isn't in other services that young taxpayers have to subsidise.
It is the governments responsibility to ensure that necessary services are provided regardless of what sections of society do not like them-that applies to RTÉ also.
By the time young people are entering politics, they are generally older and wise enough not to resent such services to large sections of the population thankfully.
mm