Cheaters

Kappar

I am an Attendent outside the LC yesterday (Friday, 7th June) the Superattendant caught a girl with Pages of notes at the end of the exam while collecting the papers. The Super attendant came out and asked me to get the Exam Secretary. NOw my question is what are thier options? Can they just cancal the one exam or do they have to Bar her from all exams or what.

Also I walked her to the toilet She went in and that's all I was told to make sure happened. Nothing can be said to me can it?

BKtje

as long as you did what you were told to do then they cant no. They will probably ask you some questions tho.
i imagine she will be allowed to sit the rest of her exams but will prob be strip searched before hand or sommet.

Loco

Hah nabbed
I hope she gets the full punishment, she bloody deserves it.

Zyox

As fas as I know once you get caught cheating in the Leaving Cert you cannot sit another state exam (incl. your drivers liscence test) for 7 years (could be five, not sure).

Someone also got kicked out of my exam hall the other day during Irish Paper 1 for having a mobile phone while the inspector was there, even though it was turned off. Nothing is going to happen to him I don't think.

Lenny

Just what Zyox said, she won't be able to do the rest of her exams, and I don't think she is allowed a passport either.. ?
About the mobile, the person who got caught with it must of had it showing or in his hand, cause if it was in his pocket, he would have been grand.
lotsa phones rang during my tests, nothing happened to the people.. they were just to turn it off..

Zyox

our supervisor told us clearly at the beginning that no mobiles were allowed in the hall, either on or off. he let people off with this for first day, cos he only just told us. but after that no mobiles at all.

also the inspector came in and asked about were any mobiles ringing during exams or causing a problem or anything. and i think it was the inspector that kicked him out because the supervisor may have seen phone earlier and mentioned it to inspector.

complicated really, but he was let off.

alex122

I think there's a completely different standard of alertness and care shown by the different supervisors...

With our supervisor... he's been allowing us to start each exam about 5 mins early.. as he said it was the only way he could give us extra time... also at two seperate times... he just walked out of the room to go to the bathroom; so we were unsupervised for those 4 mins or so.

That is not mention him falling asleep, with his eyes closed for about 15 mins at a stretch.

Just couldn't ask for a better supervisor!

embraer170

Well we have a horrible examiner. Won't give us 30 seconds more than the official time. Gives out to us like s*** if we are not in the room 15 minutes before the exams starts and makes us put our bag and books out 10 minutes before the exam starts.
Oh and spends the whole time during the exam walking around and looking at what people are writing, pretty annoying.

I believe cheating in the LC is way more common than people believe. I see loads of people writing cheat notes between exams etc.

Oh heard an interesting statistic that 40% of people cheat in the French LC (le Bac). Could it be as bad here?

Jer

Mills

Originally posted by Zyox
our supervisor told us clearly at the beginning that no mobiles were allowed in the hall, either on or off. he let people off with this for first day, cos he only just told us. but after that no mobiles at all.

also the inspector came in and asked about were any mobiles ringing during exams or causing a problem or anything. and i think it was the inspector that kicked him out because the supervisor may have seen phone earlier and mentioned it to inspector.

complicated really, but he was let off.

I think you have to be caught twice before any of these actions are taken, and the first time you're caught you only have that exam cancelled. I read something about a 2 year ban from sitting state exams as well.

Raskolnikov

My supervisor was looking over my shoulder for at least 5 minutes in the English exam, she then picked my exam paper, looked under it then walked off. I assume she was looking for cheat notes or something

I am suprised how easy it would be to cheat though, just leave your notes in your pocket and toddle off to the toilet. Our caretaker had a great time last year trying to find booksand notes that students had hidden in the toilets

BTBB

7 or 10 years is the right number. However it can be changed as the Minister for Education sees fit depending on the severity of the case. See the last page of the exam rules.

BTBB

zAbbo

The most common cheat method used today is that with the exam answer booklets. Essentially they are all the same and any number can be found lying around before or after an exam. So the would be cheater takes one of these home with him, and writes all his notes into it. Go`s into the exam about 30mins before and leaves it sitting beside his desk or on it (depends on how sly confident you are). So when the exam starts you can just copy over the notes or have the notes written on the back pages of the answer book and claim them as Rough Work. This has always been the most effective method of cheating in state exams and is exploited with some 3rd level students.

Of course cheating in the LC is pretty stupid thing to do, if you ask me, but you`d be surprised how many do it.

Mills

Hmmmm, I've had my notes for each subject in my pocket throughout all the exams, I'm only after thinking how easy it would have been to go out to the toilet and have a look at them during the exam, probably isn't a good idea to keep them on my person .

Lenny

In the end though, you're only tricking yourself and the people around you.. really dishonest thing to do.
I think this topic should be locked, it's giving people some ideas and ways of cheating.

PiE

The way I see it, if you cheat in an exam that you need to pass to get into college but you wont ever use it there (i.e. Irish) you arent doing any damage to anyone.

Our examiner is pretty cool, lets us use the calculators on phones and all. Though he does make a helluva noise eating his snacks, of which his case is full.

BTBB

I'm very interested in your phone. The ablity to do trig and stat on a phone is impressive. Most phones only do +-*/

What's more impressives is its ability to request data updates from remote sources. In plain English texting others for the answers.

I'm for locking this thread.

BTBB

damnyanks

I never thought about cheating for the whole "your only cheating yourself" argument.

But this weekend was when I was gonna study like mad for business and history. Instead I had to attend a family members funeral down the country now I'm royally screwed!

Lenny

Unlucky.

Dermo

the guy sitting in front of me accidently left his bag beside him for the full exam and the examiner never say it. It was wide open with books falling it out and he only realised half way through the exam

donaloconnor

my superviser allowed us to copy eachother. He allowed one guy to get up and walk around looking to the other exams. I was finished early so i left the exam. On the way out he whispered to me to help ur man on the way out. I couldn't belive it lol. So i did.... In my CSPE exam, he came up to me, turned everypage of my exam to find any mistakes, and he corrected me in them as much as he could. He spent a good lot of the time outside of the room, leaving us unsupervised. most of the time in the exam we were talking to eachother. A lot of people were showing their papers to the people behind, he didn't mind. He starts our exam about 1/4 hour early.

He also takes a few of our sweets and drinks also lol

But this was not the LC,it was the JC, i hope i'll have him in the LW!

zAbbo

Check ur pm Donal,

castie

Originally posted by PiE
The way I see it, if you cheat in an exam that you need to pass to get into college but you wont ever use it there (i.e. Irish) you arent doing any damage to anyone.

Our examiner is pretty cool, lets us use the calculators on phones and all. Though he does make a helluva noise eating his snacks, of which his case is full.

Try this pie the place in a course you take means that someone else cant get it meaning you cheating has cost them a place in a course that they deserved and you did not

Molly

Try this pie the place in a course you take means that someone else cant get it meaning you cheating has cost them a place in a course that they deserved and you did not

The points system isn't very fair anyway, especailly when it comes to not everyone getting in on certain points ( I know lets draw lots !)

donaloconnor

Originally posted by -=Castaway=-

Try this pie the place in a course you take means that someone else cant get it meaning you cheating has cost them a place in a course that they deserved and you did not

True...

castie

Also our supervisor said that all bags are to be left at the front of the hall to stop people being "inclined" to look when they are stuck and also even slipping notes into a stocking then going to the toilet and retrieving them is an idea:mad: bloody retarded in my opinion there is 101 ways to cheat and i can guarantee people will and that will **** up the points system for all of us
Even one guy in my year said he was cheating because he felt the techer strikes last year broke his studying rythmn.

LIKE WHAT ****IN BUL****!

havok*

Originally posted by -=Castaway=-

Try this pie the place in a course you take means that someone else cant get it meaning you cheating has cost them a place in a course that they deserved and you did not

The LC is'nd a fair exam in the first place. Its not a test of inteligance as it claims to be only a test of memory . Wht about ppl with photographic memorys, that do no work and finish above students who work there asses off. Are They more deserving of that college place?

Some kind of appatitude test sould be brought in by the Education board to be sat along side the LC, with joint points. Its the only hope of having a fair system.

I've never cheated and never will, only because it completely goes against my morals. For the courses i'm going for (graphic Design) of which i've already worked in the industry, I've had to go ack and resit my LC simply because the system is so inflexable.
Is Someone with no creative talent, who has more years of drawing and finds the LC ez (which has nothing to do with GD anyways) more deserving of that place?

I Think not.

PiE

What he said^

DeVore

Originally posted by havok*


The LC is'nd a fair exam in the first place. Its not a test of inteligance as it claims to be only a test of memory . Wht about ppl with photographic memorys, that do no work and finish above students who work there asses off. Are They more deserving of that college place?

Yes.

Example: You are going to have an operation. You have the choice of a doctor who has a photographic memory of relevant medical prodcedures and what to do in case of complications.
Or you can have one who crammed to pass his exams but has a charming personality and not to mention a wonderful singing voice.

In life, the majority of the time you are tested on the recall of data. Sorry, it sucks but its true. Even in design, the comprehension and regurgitation of large amounts of information is required, though less so then the (deliberately) extreme case I mention above.


Let me tell you a story.
When I studied Pure Maths in Trinity we had an exam where the lecturer gave you 0 points unless you got the question absolutely perfect. One guy forgot to replace X = 1 with N = 1 in the last line of a three book proof because the question clearly stated "Find the value of N".
There was war as you might expect and the class complained at the next lecture. The lecturer looked at us coldly while we ranted at him and when we were done he just looked at us and said "You are mathematicians. You are paid to be correct and exact. Close is nothing."
We complained about demonstrating the general knowledge of the theory and he closed his book and walked out. When he got to the door he turned and said "Tell that to NASA".
It was the day the Challenger shuttle had blown up killing 7 people.

After the LC, you are in the really real world and while few of you will have jobs where lives depend on you're actions, you will still be judged on results and thats just the way things are.

So yes, if you can regurgitate information you are going to go further then others and rightly so.
The LC/CAO/Points system is the worst system possible, apart from all the others.
How else would you have them do it? Any other way will introduce backhanders, favouritism, jobs-for-the-boys etc.

Welcome to the rest of your life.

DeV.

Dustaz

this is the only time ive read this forum. I picked a good time to read it

Dev is absolutly correct. I had similar experiences in college (though not quite as 'look at your shoes and shuffle a lot' as the challenger example ). While doing TV production, if we handed in a project even less than a minute over the deadline, we got 'Nil Point'. We thought it was a stupidly pretty severe rule but since then, ive found real life to be three times as unforgiving.

Bear in mind also that this is the beginning of the end of your work being the be all and end all of your career advancement. From now on (um ok, after college) its all about how you play whatever game you end up in.

cournioni

Very good point DeVore. However that has nothing got to do with the LC. University is there to help you to get that job in the real world. The Leaving Cert is only there so that you will go that extra step. Therefore I think they shouldn't be as hard on us in the LC. University gives you the chance to get into the jobs you want to get into. The Leaving Cert therefore should not be more important than Univ. If you fail in Univ you don't get the Diploma's/Degrees/Cert's you want. Then you do NOT get that special job you spent 18 years of hell you've been through.

So to make a long story short, It should be left for the Lucturer's to decide. Not some silly person in the Department of Education who over rates the Leaving Cert just to ruin your life and not get you into University where you can actually benefit from some good teaching.

seamus

n1 DeV. Welcome Dusty

It's all about perspective. While you're doing the LC, it's not fair, and you shouldn't have to do it, but once you finish you realise there was method in their madness. My course, Science in UCD, had the biggest drop in points in 2000, when I started. Subsequently, we also had the biggest failure/drop-out rate ever 9 months later. OK, Science is a pretty big academic thing, but it also showed us that no matter how good you may be at something, there is almost no-one who will do well in any college course without doing work - just as it happens in the LC. Just as I learned yesterday, you can be brilliant at something and still do crap in the exams. All my life I've done nothing for exams, and sailed through them. Yet I've just fecked up my summer exams for the second time, because I did nothing. I didn't do myself justice in the leaving, because I did nothing. Beleive me, if you're not prepared to do work for your leaving, you're not prepared for college. How did we get OT?? I'm going to do some study now...............:(

azezil

Just on the point of learning off and regurgitating, i think its wrong and change is coming. More emphasis is being put on continuos assessments and showing applied knowledge and rightly so. I find the current system of learning off 2 years work (LC) totally preposterous and out dated.

poobags

People who are lazy are inevitably going to complain about the system. It favours the workers. People who are creative, well most of their courses are based on portfolio work and there isn't much emphasis on points. The leavin is good in theory as it is non discriminate but it is the courses that let it down.

Take for example Irish. In every other language course(excluding english) it is not compulsory for you to do poems and prose. But in IRish we have to do some bull**** story about some ****in tit who gets thaught some stupid ****in lesson . You have to study it in paper two. But nobody can speak Irish by the end of their course and that just makes the whole thing pointless. The oral should be worth 60 percent so people would put most time into that. It mean sthe language is not evolvin as the young people arn't usin it. Through the youth is the only way a language can evolve and if it fails to do this it dies. The Irish course is killin IRish.

I do music and thats a completly different story. Half of the marks for the exam went for a performance. I had to play guitar for an exam. How brilliant was that. I didn't care that it was a once off exam and that I could **** up on the day. No Iwas comfortable.
If we could relate more to the exam like in music we wouldn't have so much complaints about the leavin.

But change is comin without a doubt. Somethins goin to happen in relation to the leavin.

Caesar_Bojangle

I remember in my junior cert, a guy in my class pulled out a 2 full a4 pages of notes(back and front) from his shirt pocket during our french exam and was looking at it for about 20 mins. The gobsh*** examiners were none the wiser.

I must admit i did a slight bit of cheating myself, keyed a few history dates into my watch, needless to say i scored a beautiful A.

Flynn

About that going to the toilet to check your notes method... well our super nintendo writes down the time you left and came back from the jacks on the page you're on... So if your rambling away in an essay writing absolute sh*te and the corrector sees *toilet* followed by a string of incredibly intelligent sentences fully relating to the essay title.. well tis a bit obvious..

Did anybody's super intendant announce the Ireland - Germany score? during english i think... or was it Irish.. i dunno?
Our guy is pretty sound.. he confiscated a polo off me!
your never really in a situation where you can ask someone the answer tho..

It is possible to cheat.. Although i wouldn't condone it.. My friend found a crumpled up piece of paper w/ maths formulae written all over it... obviously someone cheated and got away w/ it... but it is damn risky.. A teacher told us for maths to write formulae on the calculator in pencil.. it isn't visible till tilted under light.. but for the ammount of stuff you'd fit on a calculator u may aswell learn the stuff...
My advice to successfully cheat in the LC would be to devise a language consisting of only coughs and sneezes... but good luck with that!

And to Havok i think it was... I totally agree... I myself want to do Graphic Design ( D.. Comm. in C.I.T) but I am not the type to study my ass off.. in fact i would be moreso the photographic memory type... and it would be wrong for me to become a vet over someone with a natural abilty to aid animals.. but i am artistic/creative which is what the course requires..

What the colleges should do is give an entrance exam.. Ie.. for an art course a portfolio is required.. but what about a dentistry or vetinery course?etc... I'm glad CIT dont want a portfolio tho.. if they did i'd be fuked!

embraer170

About that going to the toilet to check your notes method... well our super nintendo writes down the time you left and came back from the jacks on the page you're on... So if your rambling away in an essay writing absolute sh*te and the corrector sees *toilet* followed by a string of incredibly intelligent sentences fully relating to the essay title.. well tis a bit obvious..

Well my old exam centre was shut down Monday evening so were all moved to another one. Weirdest guy ever. People can sit where they want (big room with about 40 desks, 20 pupils, everyone is down the back and he is right at the front), people can go in and out to the toilet when they want (doesn't even write it on people's exams) etc...

Only annoying thing is that he tends to start late (09:35 for business today) but doesn't give us 1 extra second at the end.

It all really depends on on the supervisor doesn't it?

Jer

Nietzschean

Well from my experence in the last week i've found if i had wanted to i could cheat like mad.........but that ole moral compas thingy parents instilled into me is holding me back....and the fact i've worked so not worth risk...but i'm sure if i wanted to i could get away with a huge level of cheating....ringing someone from the toilet for answers or anything

donaloconnor

I have pittty for ye guys, we just cheat in our exam there and ur man looks at us and smiles lol. He also gives us all the answers he can. Today he was very tense. We all noticed it. Towards the evening a guy walked into the room with a suit. I thought that it was going to be our new superviser but once he went away after a bit of chatting, our superviser old us that he was an inspector from the education department. And that he was expecting him all day, so thats why he didnt want to get caught helping us or us talking. Me and my friend went from the exam earlly. I went in with my friend to the jacks. He had a fag. But then the superviser walked in and done his business lol. He left the class unsupervised. Guess he was holding it all day!

Nietzschean

Originally posted by donaloconnor
I have pittty for ye guys, we just cheat in our exam there and ur man looks at us and smiles lol. He also gives us all the answers he can. Today he was very tense. We all noticed it. Towards the evening a guy walked into the room with a suit. I thought that it was going to be our new superviser but once he went away after a bit of chatting, our superviser old us that he was an inspector from the education department. And that he was expecting him all day, so thats why he didnt want to get caught helping us or us talking. Me and my friend went from the exam earlly. I went in with my friend to the jacks. He had a fag. But then the superviser walked in and done his business lol. He left the class unsupervised. Guess he was holding it all day!

So the moral of the story is we might aswell all cheat?

donaloconnor

umm nope just thought i might share what happens in our exams. But i guess we are just lucky to have him

Nietzschean

well supervisor in the room nextdoor to mine is my old irish teacher.....and she seems to know my supervisor...so if i wanted to i'm sure i could get away with most things.....(me old irish teacher likes me )

daveJAM

Did anybody's super intendant announce the Ireland - Germany score? during english i think... or was it Irish.. i dunno?

We got a dancing supervisor. He just got a bit too excited when Ireland scored during english.

donaloconnor

Did anybody's super intendant announce the Ireland - Germany score? during english i think... or was it Irish.. i dunno?

Yeah our superviser got his helper go get us the scor every 1/4 hour or so.

Caesar_Bojangle

My cousin admitted that he cheated during his exams by writing answers on a tissue, then pretending he had the flu, blowing his nose(not really) then looking at his notes.

He did this for 4 exams and seems to have got away with it.:D

banquo

i was one of the 600 jc students whose cspe "projects" were lost. the exam only accounted for 40% and i still got a D.

Ry

Our Supervisor was dead sound. He started a couple of exams early so we could make kick off for some matches. He got his helper to get us scores and also let us have extra time if we needed it. He wouldn't have let us cheat but he did push boundries for us which was nice of him.

Ry