Drop Harte?

DapperGent

Does his defensive shortcomings outweigh his amazing deadball skills and great crossing?

BKtje

who do we replace him with tho?

he may be a muppet but is there any one who's that much less of a muppet

the celtic tiger

stephen reid should be brought into midfield, and gary kelly should play defense again. reid has a wicked dead ball shot as well.

tHE vAGGABOND

both games we have taken him off and gotten kickable free kicks a few minutes later..

WhiteWashMan

ian harte is a great crosser of the ball too.
too many pluses and not enough minus points.
keep him.

Xterminator

After 2 ****e games, its time to give someone else a shot, and against the Saudis is probably the best time to bed them in from the start.

I dont mean to be flippant, but the guy is picked a a defender, when he cant defend.
Now there are positions on the pitch which can suit a talenrted player, who cant defend, but not full back!

Even the less talented managers know a sound defense is the platform for success. And ireland have gone behind in both WC matches so far, to battle back.

You can only go the well so many times, before it dries up.

X

Pigman

Nope, keep him on.

He can't defend for ****e. But now (following Cameron Fry 1-0) we're gonna need to do the unthinkable and actually score TWO goals in the one match. I fancy him to get one and Breen to score the other!

G'wan Ireland!

darthmise

Quinner to start, and nick a goal.
Harte should definitely start, his defensive frailties won't be such an issue against the saudis. We need goals and that what he does best.

For big games though i would drop him every time.

seamus

Robbie Keane should be taken off, at least for the start of the games. Our 2 games now, he's played sh1te. WTF was that overhead kick about yesterday?? Fine he scored, but just barely. There were at least 10 headers in the box we missed yesterday because we lacked the skill in there.

bugler

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
ian harte is a great crosser of the ball too.
too many pluses and not enough minus points.

Pluses: Can cross, and shoot very effectively on occasion.

Minuses: Poor defender.

Let's remember that he's playing full back. And he can't defend very well at all.

As mentioned above, I think Reid should come into the team and move Kelly to left back. I'm not Kelly's biggest fan either, but we have to make do. I have an eerie feeling Mr Harte is going to have a say in our world cup fortunes yet, and not in a good way.

cournioni

We'll need him on Tuesday for the pin point crosses to Quinn (if he is playing). The Saudi's have a very big weakness in the air and we need his crossing ability. Plus I can't see them causing too many problems to our defence.

Pigman

Originally posted by bugler


Pluses: Can cross, and shoot very effectively on occasion.

Minuses: Poor defender.

Let's remember that he's playing full back. And he can't defend very well at all.

As mentioned above, I think Reid should come into the team and move Kelly to left back. I'm not Kelly's biggest fan either, but we have to make do. I have an eerie feeling Mr Harte is going to have a say in our world cup fortunes yet, and not in a good way.

I don't see what the problem is here? Full backs (despite the name) are encouraged to attack whenever possible. We need goals next week and Harte offers more attacking options than any defender in the squad.

Defensively suspect he may be , but that is why Staunton and Kilbane are there. When Harte does occasionally fu.ck up either one of them will cover for 95% of his mistakes and playing the percentage game that's good enough for me.

mike65

From what height ?

Mike.

NeRb666

Drop him. His deadball ability hasn't helped us for a long time, his defensive skills (or lack of) were partly responsible for the two goals we've conceded thus far.

Duff on the left, Reid on the right, Keane and either Morrison/Quinn up front. Sticking Gary Kelly in his place may be our best bet, although we could get away with 3 defenders against the Saudis IMO.

bugler

Originally posted by Pigman


I don't see what the problem is here?

That much is obvious. Not all full-backs are encouraged to attack, and anyway, my problem with Harte is not that he's too attack minded, its that he is a crap defender. To be a good full back, you need to be able to defend. Hence being defined as a defender. What you're saying is more applicable to a wing back. As for Staunton and Breen covering "95%" of his mistakes, I admire your optimism. Wait until we come up against one of the stronger sides (presuming we qualify). We'll see how Staunton and Gary 'Benchwarmer' Breen deal with Harte's mistakes when its a Spaniard who gets the ball. Both of them did well in the last match and indeed for the last couple of seasons, but class defenders they are not. I hate to sound begrudging towards the Irish team, but the fact that we have come this far without a really good centre-back is something of a miracle. Well, hats off to them for doing it. The lack of a Moran/McGrath and Harte at full back are the two biggest problems facing Ireland IMO. It hopefully will be a moot point against the Saudis, but if we have to face Spain or such like then I'd be very much against playing someone who can't defend in our back line. Defending is done as a cohesive unit, not two wannabe wingers (which I wouldn't necessarily label Harte as) plus two 'actual' defenders, ie the centre halves.

Kim Tae-Woo

I said "NO", no no

I think Harte has had his problems and lacked something in the last games, but do you know why I voted No?

Harte and good or bad players won't count much against the Saudis.

Look at Cameroon, great players but no finishing kill because they used the wrong formations and the players were under pressure to score 5 plus goals.

Ireland have done well using a typical Swedish/British/Portugese formation 4-4-2
But


This is a tactical game.

Irland must change

Ireland should adopt a few formnations to finish the Saudis back line, USA's 5-4-1
Argentinas 3-4-3
Russias 3-5-2

McCarthy used a 4-3-3 with Germnay in the l;ast 20 mins and it worked brill!

I say drop the 4-4-2 because Robbie and Duff need another man up front like Quinn or Morrison

suppafly

i think he's a complete muppet! He is the cause of both the goals that cameroon and germany have scored! like the cameroon goal he just left his man go so staunton had to come in and leave his man free to hit in the croosed ball while harte just stood there. In the germany match, u can see staunton putting out his arm, signaling to harte, u take that fellas. i just leave him run then and stay on the outside of him, letting his man get goalside. I think he might be a better midfielder but he is defenitly no a defender. He hasn't the slightest clue how to defend!!

suppafly

Originally posted by bugler


Pluses: Can cross, and shoot very effectively on occasion.

Minuses: Poor defender.

Let's remember that he's playing full back. And he can't defend very well at all.

As mentioned above, I think Reid should come into the team and move Kelly to left back. I'm not Kelly's biggest fan either, but we have to make do. I have an eerie feeling Mr Harte is going to have a say in our world cup fortunes yet, and not in a good way.

yeah that might be a good option, and i aslo feel the same about him having a bad influence on us

Pigman

Originally posted by bugler


That much is obvious. Not all full-backs are encouraged to attack, and anyway, my problem with Harte is not that he's too attack minded, its that he is a crap defender. To be a good full back, you need to be able to defend. Hence being defined as a defender. What you're saying is more applicable to a wing back. As for Staunton and Breen covering "95%" of his mistakes, I admire your optimism. Wait until we come up against one of the stronger sides (presuming we qualify). We'll see how Staunton and Gary 'Benchwarmer' Breen deal with Harte's mistakes when its a Spaniard who gets the ball. Both of them did well in the last match and indeed for the last couple of seasons, but class defenders they are not. I hate to sound begrudging towards the Irish team, but the fact that we have come this far without a really good centre-back is something of a miracle. Well, hats off to them for doing it. The lack of a Moran/McGrath and Harte at full back are the two biggest problems facing Ireland IMO. It hopefully will be a moot point against the Saudis, but if we have to face Spain or such like then I'd be very much against playing someone who can't defend in our back line. Defending is done as a cohesive unit, not two wannabe wingers (which I wouldn't necessarily label Harte as) plus two 'actual' defenders, ie the centre halves.

Yes, not all fullbacks are encouraged to attack, but the ones in our team are!

Also regaring Harte, I was actually only refering to the match against Saudi. I probably wouldn't play him either against Spain (presuming we get there) but from what I saw of Saudi today they don't have enough attacking potential to warrant excessive defensiveness on our part.

Couple this with the fact that we DO HAVE TO GO AND SCORE (as opposed to just spending 50+ hunting for an equaliser) then you can see that Harte must be included in (at least from the start of) this match.

Plus I have to disagree with your rating of our centre backs. Sure they're not premier league stars or even playing with top clubs but they are doing a good job and except for the first half against Cameroon haven't looked as suspect as people before the tournament had feared.

cournioni

If we are to drop Harte, I think we should put Staunton out on the left and put Cunningham in the middle of defence. I can't see how a change of formation can help us in any way, in fact it could disrupt our whole structure causing us to be more vulnerable.

Staunton is good enough to take the set pieces anyway. Remember his crucial goal against Malta three years ago? And I was in no way a fan of Staunton before the Germany game. Lets hope he keeps up the good performances.

suppafly

the only problem with Staunton on the wing is that he is getting old and doesn't have the pace to keep up with the wingers. At least i reckon thats why McCarthy has him in the centre

The_Scary_Man

Originally posted by mike65
From what height ?

Mike.

HEHE

Oh yeah and btw drop him. It's no use to us if he might get a goal from a free kick but definitely makes a mistake to give the other team a goal.
He's a sh1t defender simple as that, put Kelly in there instead of him and play Reid at RM.
He's a player who I think has a great future for us, strong, pacey, wicked shot and skillful.
With Reid on the right and Duff on the left with Quinn and Keane up front we'll pulverize De Saudis.
I'll be phoning Mick with my recommendations tomorrow.
BTW I still want him to resign when he comes back.

Bateman

Keep him. Keep it tight, keep with what we know. Its not ideal, but its done us so far.

suppafly

Originally posted by Bateman
Its not ideal, but its done us so far.

its definetly not ideal, he has been the cause of the 2 goals that were scored on us!

Hairy Homer

Drop him. Like a hot potato.

I'm not a great Premiership watcher so I don't see much of his performances for Leeds, in which presumably he picks up the reputation for being a good crosser of the ball for which some people here are giving him credit.

I have been to many of Ireland's home matches over the past few years and what impresses me most about Harte is his unerring ability to find a member of the opposition with his passes out of defence. That and his knack of getting completely flummoxed any time a ball is played towards any player he is supposed to be marking from any sort of oblique angle.

Sure, he's a good free kick taker, but then so is Staunton. And Reid came close from one too. (can't actually remember whether it was against Cameroon or Germany—all this early drinking is getting to me)

I would agree with Pornapster. Boot Harte to touch. Put Staunton at left full and bring Cunningham in to play with Breen in central defence. That way we don't have to have Kilbane (who I think can be quite useful but only sporadically) on as cover for a crap left full back and can play Duff wide on the left with two other strikers (any two from Keane'/Quinn/Morrison) up front.

Here's hoping for a decent three-nil win on tuesday, though I don't fancy us against Spain in the next round.

castie

no way keep him hes quite useful from set pieces such as corners and free kicks and also his pace gives us a bith of width

suppafly

Originally posted by -=Castaway=-
no way keep him hes quite useful from set pieces such as corners and free kicks and also his pace gives us a bith of width

Well maybe he could be moved to midfield or something, cuz he is too much of a liabilty to have back i defence.

Sposs

Harte is overweight and two slow,he's been well beaten in both games and the team can no longer carry him just for his freekicks,put gary kelly left back steve finian right back and then bring in the excellent Stephen reid right side of midfield.


ps.drop kilbane,bring in duff on the left where he belongs and throw on clinton morrison.

Kim Tae-Woo

jaguar atari?

bugler

Oh lordy, this topic. He had a truly pathetic tournament. How someone in that form ended up starting four games in a world cup is above and beyond me. Despite proving in each and every game that he can't really defend, he somehow managed to keep his place. Mind you given some of the views on this thread it can't be too surprising. Yet again, he was found wanting for the Spaniards goal. He should never have been allowed near the penalty, a man in rubbish form and with low confidence does not make a good penalty taker. In hindsight he should have been left at home, even the one thing you thought you could count on him to deliver on (his set pieces) were poor. Pity that hindsight is irrelevant.

Augmerson

Carlsberg dont do assasinations, but if they did...

Johnny Gomez

The thing I don't understand is why he usually plays good for Leeds and actually had a relatively good season with them, what happened?

BKtje

jaysus i take back what i said earlier.
once again he played ****e

and i dont know why he ever got near that penalty either.

bit late now to change my opinion i guess :P

BJJ

Drop Harte isn't it "no good crying over spilt milk"?

Harte stays for the Euro championships

DapperGent

Players should be punished for poor performances (anyone else play CM) drop him as has been said before like a hot pot-a-toe. If his club form warrants inclusion then so be it. But I personally believe that this world cup has been the start of a long slippery slope for I. Harte unless he finds a position that plays to his strengths before long he'll be playing for Rochdale.

JarJar blinks

No

MrJoeSoap

41% say no? ARE YOU MAD? He's the worst player to ever wear an Irish shirt (Phil Babb included).

Michael Collins

I blame Harte for single-handedly knocking us out of the World Cup..ok maybe slight exaggeration but come on, he should have scored that penatly again Spain...yes yes other missed penaltys too but it was different at that time, and besides they arn't designated penalty takers.

He's too slow - doesn't realise the danger of passing slowly across the goal, not great with the tactics of the game...but still he IS a good player and usually a very good penaly / corner taker.

Maybe when (if) John O'Shea gets into the squad we'll have more options...

kamobe

The ONLY reason he's in the team is for set pieces. In the world cup, he ballooned his free's and then missed his penno. If he bottles under pressure, then he isn’t very useful now is he? Kelly would be grand on the left, and definitely far better then Harte.

I'm not too fond of Kilbane either. I'd prefer to see Duff on the left, with someone like Morrison up there with Keane. Although in Kilbane's defence, he always gives 100%, and he does his fair share of tracking back.....

JacquesPompidou

?

Waylander

I would like to see Kilbane dropped and Harte pushed up to the LM position. In fairness to him I thought his penalty against Spain was alright. He went down the middle and connected with the ball well. Keeper gussed right and made the save, you always look abit daft going down the middle when that happens, but that is exacltly where Beckham stuck his peno in the Argentina match. I know he had a brutle WC but I do think he is an excellent deadball hitter and should be kept in the team if possible.

Brian Bennette

Drop a Harte and a Phil Babb

Brian Bennette

Is Harte going to play in the next game?

suppafly

Originally posted by Waylander
In fairness to him I thought his penalty against Spain was alright.

U never let a low confidence, out of form player take a peno!

Sposs

This argument is abit old?????:rolleyes:

Mike66

Drop him!

Samba

Harte is a good player, that is all there is to it!

One bad period and yous want him off the team, get some cop on.

Why do you think he is there in the first place, he has scored many a goal from a free kick and he has been at the(oh teh pun)Harte of many set Pieces which have created goals:).(That is for Leeds)

He plays well for Leeds and did so last season, if he gets his confidence back playing more and more in the premiership Great!

But i Agree if he carries on with what he showed in the World Cup be my guest.

Harte played well against russia, nice tight and controlled passing.

And besides what are yous all winging about, its not as if this thread is actually going to make a difference, eh mick?

Congoose

Harte's got to go. He has plenty of talent but I'm sick of seeing forwards getting in behind him in every game. It's not a recent thing, he has been getting badly caught out of position for years.

yop

So the intention is to bring in Stauton back from retirement??

There has to be someone better than Harte - granted he can cross and take free kicks but he does not do what he is meant to do, he was totally to blame for 2 of the goals in the WC, he is not a left back or even a wing back. Stephen McPhail - is he not a left back?

Samba

Not that I am aware of.

DapperGent

McPhail is centre midfield of leftmidfield at a push. I think Venables is playing him on the left side of a midfield three on the rare occasions he gets a game.