Building/Upgrading to Athlon

Xenophobic

Hi all,

Currently I have a P3 550 and I want to upgrade this to an Athlon 1.4 (or 1.33 if I can't find one). So my questions are fairly generic and this is just an open call to air opinions on best MoBo, RAM etc for this config.

Mobo: Asus A7A266
(DDR SDRAM DIMM 168-PIN? 2 Slots,
Ultra ATA 100,
Award BIOS,
266 FSB,
AGP Pro)

Chip: Athlon 1.4GHz Socket A 266FSB
OR
Athlon 1.33Ghz Socket A 266FSB

RAM: 256MB 184Pin DIMM PC2100DDRRAM ECCRegistered CL2.5

On the RAM I have a few questions:

The MoBo mentions 168pin but all mentions to DDR in Dabs say 184pin - I take it the MoBo description is wrong?

I presume I want CAS2 (CL2) is CL2.5 halfway between them?


General questions:
What else will I need (I don't plan OCing it) will I need just a normal heatsink or all that thermal paste, heatsink and fan sitting on top?


Any comments gratefully accepted!

Thanks

Xeno

Gladiator

all pc 2100 ddr is cass 2.5 if you want cas 2 go for pc 1600

and the motherboard spec isnt wrong since that board supports both DDR and SDRAM, but not at the same time.

apart from that your spec looks good,
now what watt psu were you looking at, something 300 or over is need here.

and cooler, altons run hot and so you need good cooling
ThermoEngine V60-4225 or ThermalRight SK6 will be fine

Gerry

The a7a266 is a decent board, but I'd recommend the a7m266 over it, which is based on the amd 760 chipset, which is faster and more reliable.

"all pc 2100 ddr is cass 2.5 if you want cas 2 go for pc 1600"

pc1600 runs on a 100mhz fsb/ 200mhz ddr, meaning it is 33% slower than pc2100. The unofficial name for ddr ram that runs at 133mhz fsb/ 266mhz ddr is pc2400, I think www.corsair.com have some. Most of the crucial pc2100 ram will run at cas2 though I think.

Those fans are good, you will need good thermal paste as well, I recommend artic silver II paste, available from www.overclockers.co.uk.

You will also need extra case cooling if you want a stable 1.4ghz machine, so make sure your case has mountings for 80mm case fans in the front and back.

[This message has been edited by Gerry (edited 21-06-2001).]

Gladiator

look im not going to fight with you, i never said pc1600 is faster, i said you can get cas 2 pc1600 but you cant pc2100.

im far from wrong if you read my post again you will see this,

if you think you know were to get crucial cas2 pc2100 please post a link,

btw pc2100 is 266 fsb so what are you talking about


[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 20-06-2001).]

PhilipMarlowe

Thinking of something similar, albeit over a wee period of time...
Any comments re: the a7m266 versus an Abit KT7A-RAID?

Gladiator

"all pc 2100 ddr is cass 2.5 if you want cas 2 go for pc 1600"


thats absolutely wrong gladiator, pc1600 runs on a 100mhz fsb/ 200mhz ddr, meaning it is 33% slower than pc2100. The unofficial name for ddr ram that runs at 133mhz fsb/ 266mhz ddr is pc2400, I think "

totaly wrong
DDR PC2100

PC2100 SDRAM is used in systems with a 266MHz front side bus. It is available in 184-pin DIMMs and 200-pin SODIMMs.

"www.corsair.com have some. Most of the crucial pc2100 ram will run at cas2 though I think."

again totaly wrong
CAS 2.5 ddr

i repeat all pc 2100 crucial memory is cas 2.5,

Gladiator

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Licksy20:
Thinking of something similar, albeit over a wee period of time...
Any comments re: the a7m266 versus an Abit KT7A-RAID? </font>

well the abite has raid and four ide channels while the asus has ddr and is said to be extremely stable when overclocking

Gerry

sorry, rushed that

I meant to say that the unofficial name for ram that runs at 133mhz fsb / 266mhz ddr, cas2. In the meantime, I've actually found out that it means ddr ram which runs 150/300 cas2. A review is here:

http://fullon3d.com/reports/corsair/pc2400/pc2400.kevin.shtml


And that link to corsair was wrong, its www.corsairmicro.com.

Anyway, Xenophobic mentioned a 266fsb chip, so mentioning pc1600 was completely irrelevant.

To clear things up, I didn't say crucial pc2100 would definitely run at cas2, I said

"Most of the crucial pc2100 ram will run at cas2 though I think."

notice that I qualified this statement. ie even though it is not specced to run at cas 2, most of it will.

As for a7m266 vs kt7a raid, the a7m266 uses ddr ram, which offers up to 10-15% performance increase. It's slightly more expensive also, though much cheaper than it used to be. The general consensus is that the asus is a slightly more stable board.

Gladiator

thats all very well gerry but you said i was wrong which after your last post i clearly wasnt. i said all pc 2100 ddr is cas 2.5 which all ddr 2100 is, which means i was right and you were in the wrong for saying i wasnt.


dont be so quick to say someones wrong, ive probably been building pcs for aslong as you have and i dont apreciate your reply



[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 20-06-2001).]

_CreeD_

/me steps over the handbags of conflict....

Ahem.

Just one thing, you mentioned the ram as being ECC. While more stable this is slightly slower than standard RAM, and shouldn't be necessary in a home system (Being aimed at the server market Its probably more expensive too (too tired to go look....))

Xenophobic

Hi Creed,
It was £48 instead of £40 ish, not too bothered about the extra. The speed issue though is a slight concern, any figures? I only was getting ECC because it was only slightly more expensive (and the cosmic rays being quite heavy in this part of Dublin )

So, so far the winning MoBo is Asus A7A(M)266
I'll read up on the RAM issue.

Gerry, I was intending putting this kit inside my existing PC case (D3LL desktop) and not adding anymore fans (it's a home PC I don't really want it looking like an air conditioning unit) will this be OK for non OC'd machine?

I was seeing the RAM for <£50 for 256Mb, is this average (and can you get 512Mb sticks?)


Thanks

Xenophobic

Gladiator

you checked the link i post did you,
thats £50 sterling works out a about £130 irish.
first it doesnt include vat so add about £15
thats 65 exchange rate is **** poor add another £25 at lease thats 95 add the standard £30 shipping on top of exchanges rate on the £30 that to is sterling. you end up paying over £130 for it in punts

eoge

this is what im going to buy very soon:

CASE: Antec SX 1030 (available in Ireland here)

because it's got lots of fans and vents needed for the 1.4 t/bird. it also has lots of expansion space and has a great design.

CPU: AMD Thunderbird 1.4 (266MHz FSB) (available in Ireland here)

H/SINK: Black Thermoengine Turbo w/ Delta 7000rpm Fan (available ?)

a well rated cooler, very popuar with o/clockers

M/BOARD: ASUS A7V133 (WITHOUT AUDIO) (available in Ireland here)

a very popular and probably **the best** VIA KT133A chipset motherboard. it's got lots of great features and is very good for o/clocking. it uses good old SDR SDRAM (which is alot cheaper than DDR + performs just as well - if not better in some cases - than DDR)

MEMORY: Muskin High Performance Rev. 3 256Mb PC-150 SDRAM (available overseas here)

muskin is a well trusted mnf in this feild. this particular RAM is again very popular with o/clockers for it's good performance and reliability.

***********************************

anyway, good luck. remember not to rush into things. read up on products that you hope to buy ***before*** buying. search for reviews on many products here or here

Xenophobic

Gladiator,

I will be buying all this together so the delivery charges will be a once off, probably from Dabs if they can supply what I need (bought a 60Gb IBM 75GXP from them and found them excellent - [Dabs and HDD ], I hate the courier they use though). Sterling exchange rate is a pain but nothing compared to the cost of buying in Ireland .

This is my Moores law upgrade (every 18 months I try and buy HW thats double the power of my previous stuff ) so I don't mind splashing out a bit, this upgrade has been a bit delayed though.


Xeno

Gladiator

no no no, for once me and gerry are in total agreement, overclcokers.co.uk is the place to buy all your stuff, much cheaper then dab, quailty stuff and great customer care.

seriously you dont want to get anything from dabs.

lampsie

ITdirect are flogging 256mb sticks for 70 quid, any know if its decent?
http://www.itdirect.ie/offers.asp

Kegser

Gladiator: I think you'll find Cas 2 PC2100 RAM is available, although not too widely as of yet. I believe only the 128MB modules have been released; as there are some unresolved issues with the 256MB modules.

I think you're also a bit quick to correct other people; and every wannabe Technician needs to be able to take criticisms and accept the fact they may not know EVERYTHING.

JustHalf

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
no no no, for once me and gerry are in total agreement, overclcokers.co.uk is the place to buy all your stuff, much cheaper then dab, quailty stuff and great customer care.
seriously you dont want to get anything from dabs.</font>

Mmh... why?

Llatsni bought several PC components from DABS. They all work very well and were cheaper (sometimes considerably) than OCUK. I'll get a list soon.

Gerry

Xenophobic, if you read my last post again, I said if you want a stable 1.4ghz machine, you will need extra cooling. I speak from experience here, a 1.4 ghz athlon runs extremely hot, dissipating around 100 watts of heat into your case. Most people don't put in extra fans because they like wasting money, or because they like a computer sounding like a hoover, instead they put them in if they are needed. You seem to reckon that fans are optional, for effect or something. Unfortunately it will be a little more difficult to put good cooling in a dell desktop case, I'm not sure if there is a mounting in the front for a fan, or in the back. One thing you can do is replace the power supply fan with a high output one, and make sure it is wired up to 12 volts. This still won't guarantee that your system will be stable under heavy load, lets say after playing a game for a few hours. To be honest you will have much less hassle by replacing the case. It will be much better ventilated, and more than likely your dell case will not accept a new atx board without a bit of modification, also all the dell power supplies I have encountered are not fully atx compatible, and won't work with a normal atx board. Anyway, you are going to need a new power supply to power this athlon, at least a decent quality 250watt one, if not a 300w.

Gladiator, I dunno where your statement, "for once I agree with gerry" comes from. You haven't been posting here very long, so its not like we have had very many discussions, or else (perhaps) you were previously registered under a different name. (!)

I admitted I was wrong, and I posted something which didn't make sense, I also corrected this. You don't seem to be able to do this though. From your post, this person looking for cas2 ram for their machine, was advised to go for pc1600, bear in mind that they might not have known what pc1600 is. I'm fully prepared to admit when I'm wrong, you should be too.

Xenophobic

Okay then, never mind my case needing fans I think this thread needs half of OverClockers back catalogue.

Gerry, I did read your post, (and very informative and helpful too), but the mention of "artic silver II paste", new case fans and OverClockers seemed a bit like overkill, more in line with someone intending some serious overclocking, i.e. not me. While I realised I'd need a fan/heatsink combo I didn't think the whole hog would be required to have a stable system. I will do some further reading regarding heat dissipation for Athlons, if a new case is required than so be it.

The jibe about the "extra fans", most amusing, and not at all likely to add to the already tense atmosphere in here

I must say you all have something valuable to say, but... can we be a bit less critical here?

Gladiator,
With regard to Overclockers, they don't seem to do a 1.4Ghz Athlon (non-OC'd), Dabs have them but with a long lead time. But rest assured I will compare prices, but as I said, Dabs is ahead because I have used them and found them superb (bar the Irish couriers they chose)

Thanks,

Xenophobic

Gladiator

how was i wrong gerry? you still havent pointed it out,

Kegser you make wild clams without backing them up, post links to were you can buy cas 2 ddr 2100 memory and then we will talk.



[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 21-06-2001).]

Gladiator

well JustHalf the things i go looking for are usualy more expensive there. ie zip drives, cpu ands HDS.
DABS are very reliable, im just saying OcUK are just as good and often cheaper.
it all depends on what your buying,

Gerry

Gladiator:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gerry:
From your post, this person looking for cas2 ram for their machine, was advised to go for pc1600, bear in mind that they might not have known what pc1600 is. </font>

Xenophobic:

Sorry if I seemed critical, and it might have seemed overkill, I was just speaking from experience. If you get the new case, just start with one extra case fan, and work from there. I suggested artic silver 2 because it is the best thermal paste, but ordinary paste will do fine also. A fan/heatink combo has been required on new chips for a good while now. Gateway and dell got away with passive heatsinks on intel based machines for a long time, but a tbird puts out roughly twice the heat of an equivalently clocked p3, so thats why you need the extra cooling.

Even if the cpu runs ok boiling hot, it will be heating up everything else in the case, reducing stability and lifetime for your other components. The chipsets on the athlon motherboards put off a fair bit of heat also, so there are many things contributing and thats why you need decent case cooling.

Now all this cooling does not have to be noisy. You can run fans on a lower voltage, which quietens them down considerably, I'll detail how to do this if you are interested. I hate noisy pc's as much as anyone else, thats why I spent months quietening mine down. Its just a bit more difficult with a tbird, since it gives off so much heat.

Gladiator

and what exacly is wrong with that pc1600 does come in cas 2. i said if he wants cas 2 he will have to buy pc 1600 is this not right ? we have allready had this diccusion and you said that is right.

anywho im sick of this ****ing contest lets end it, if you remove you coments about me beign totaly wrong in the first topic im remove all my other post

Gladiator

o and Xenophobic: what gerry says is right,
cooling very important take his advise

Gerry

how about we just agree to disagree, I'm quite sick of it as well.

Gladiator

fair enough this is all getting very off topic

Kegser

Well, for starters; http://www.corsairmicro.com/main/PR_ddCAS2.html

And, just to prove it is available to some extent; do a search for PC2100 on http://www.insight.com and you'll find some 256MB Cas 2 PC2100 modules.

You really should back off while the going is good Gladiator and accept you weren't 100% correct.

Gladiator

i believe i allready have, and if i was 100% right all the time i wouldnt be browsing this board or anyother, this whole things about learning something new, before this topic i didnt know about pc 2400 ddr now i do so thats a plue

Stonemason

If your having trouble finding a 1.4 give us a shout we can get them for £278.93 inc vat.


Stone

Gladiator

are you taking the **** stone, or are you serious, the cheapest irish ive seen them for is £100 more then that

Xterminator

Just a word of advice.

www.scan.co.uk got to the today only prices
About 2 days a week they will have a mob cpu and recommended fan offer that will be very good value. I have seen in a previous thread that their have been issues with both Dabs and Scan when it comes to returning items, but in my experience, they have been good.

delivery will be around £30, and you can but online to ship to the republic.

I'd reccomend you check it out before you send your mullah.

yankinlk

what a bloody mess...why is it whenever i see gladiator's name up...i grown like it's joe22?

PhilipMarlowe

erm yank.....

Xenophobic

AMD Athlon 1.4GHz Socket A 266FSB £180.00
Availability: Long Lead Time Expected
Asustek SoA AMD 761/VIA ATX A £138.00
Availability: 3-4 days
Creative PC-DVD Blaster 12x IDE RP £53.00
Availability: Now
Crucial Technology 256MB 184DIMM PC2100 NP CL2.5 £41.39
Availability: Now
Enlight ATX Desktop PC Case (250 Watt PSU) £41.00
Availability: Now
Sub-total £453.39
VAT £79.35
Total £532.74

Sterling Excl P&P (£30 per order I think)

Any opinions (not religious war, just opinions) on the above?

Still have to find a fan and paste (from Dabs, I don't want to pay another £30 for a tube of paste tyvm)

The DVD is a replacement for one thats going elswhere as part of my old PC, any comments on it, I wanted something with digital out to connect direct to the I2S socket on the SB-Live and through to the digi speakers.

BTW Whats the chances of me getting a desktop through airport customs as hand luggage? (seriously)


Thanks

Xenophobic

Stonemason

Gladiator

That is an AMD athlon 1.4 266fbs for £278.93 unfortuanately P4 1.5+2X64MB PC800 STOMPS HOME at a hefty £468 punts.

Stone

Gladiator

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xenophobic:

AMD Athlon 1.4GHz Socket A 266FSB £180.00
Availability: Long Lead Time Expected
Asustek SoA AMD 761/VIA ATX A £138.00
Availability: 3-4 days
Creative PC-DVD Blaster 12x IDE RP £53.00
Availability: Now
Crucial Technology 256MB 184DIMM PC2100 NP CL2.5 £41.39
Availability: Now
Enlight ATX Desktop PC Case (250 Watt PSU) £41.00
Availability: Now
Sub-total £453.39
VAT £79.35
Total £532.74

Sterling Excl P&P (£30 per order I think)

Any opinions (not religious war, just opinions) on the above?

Still have to find a fan and paste (from Dabs, I don't want to pay another £30 for a tube of paste tyvm)

The DVD is a replacement for one thats going elswhere as part of my old PC, any comments on it, I wanted something with digital out to connect direct to the I2S socket on the SB-Live and through to the digi speakers.

BTW Whats the chances of me getting a desktop through airport customs as hand luggage? (seriously)


Thanks

Xenophobic</font>

well for starters you prices are wrong for the memory, you have down £40 sterling for it, but thats doesnt include vat,

you only have down £30 for p&p but cruical charge that at least, for up to 8 items (i think)and so do dabs so thats £60. just pointing that out im not being a *******, i hate to see you get a big bill for vat and p&p on top of what you expected to pay, apart from that its all ok


[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 22-06-2001).]

Xenophobic

Thanks for your concern Glad, the Vat is included in the total price (doesn't include Vat on delivery around £5-6ish on £30)

The delivery charge should be a once off of £30 as the RAM is being bought through Dabs who have Crucial as a supplier, so I'd be a *bit* peeved if they tried to charge me delivery on that, it'd be like them trying to charge me delivery from Creative, AMD et al.


Thanks,.

Xenophobic

Gladiator

i was just looking and you dont seem to have vat on any of the things you have there, english vat is something like 17.5% and that can amonth to alot

[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 22-06-2001).]

Gladiator

btw
1.4ghz 266 @ dabs £211.50 and long wait
1.4ghz 266 @ OcUk £184.48 and in stock

1.33GHz 266 @ dabs £170.37 3 days wait
1.33GHz 266 @ £142.18 in stock
im telling you shop around dabs is far from the best, but i must admitt thats some good price memory
all price include vat


[This message has been edited by Gladiator (edited 22-06-2001).]

_CreeD_

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Gladiator:
i was just looking and you dont seem to have vat on any of the things you have there, english vat is something like 17.5% and that can amonth to alot
</font>

Its added at the end of his list Gladiator.

BTW Xeno that PSU won't cut the mustard. With Athlon's a minimum of 300W is advisable. More would be better.

Xenophobic

All right finalising the list now,
Yez beat me into it, OCUK it is and a 300Watt PSU (anyone want to buy the internally fitted 250 PSU? )

OCUK

MB: Asus A7M266 DDR (Socket A) 150.05 inc VAT
CPU: AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.4GHz "AYHJA" 266MHz FSB 184.48
CHIPFAN: TaiSol CGK760092 CPU Cooler 17.63
RAM: Crucial 256MB DDR PC2100 CAS-2.5 51.47
THERMAL PASTE: Arctic Silver II 5.88
CASE: Enlight Endura EN-7237 (250Watt PSU GDFB >:/) 57.58
PSU: Sparkle FSP300-60BT 300W ATX Power Supply - AMD App 41.13

Erm...: AMD Athlon Case Badge 0.82

Total 509.04 Inc VAT(UK) Excluding Del and in Sterling

Gladiator

you know OCUK will prbably sell you that case with a discount if you tell them you dont want the 250 psu and the 1.4GHz "AYHJA" 266MHz FSB overclocks to about 1700mhz no problem, has less lock up, uses tell power, and produces less heat, all in all you wont go wrong with it and you can get it cheap now then paying more to wait,

aint you glad you asked for help now

Gerry

That psu will run a 1.4 ghz athlon successfully, I built a machine with this spec:

enlight 7237 with 250w psu
abit kt7a raid
tbird axia 1gig @ 1400 @ 1.825 volts
hercules 3d prophet II
512 megs crucial pc133 cas2 ram
ibm 75gig 75gxp hdd
maxtor 40 gig 5400 rpm hdd
maxtor 20 gig 7200 rpm hdd
dvd and writer

All this ran perfectly, just needed some extra cooling. Also, I opened the power supply, and its fan runs off a regulator which is temperature controlled (apparently). This means the fan runs slowly to keep it quiet. By bypassing the regulator, the fan runs on the full 12v all the time, keeping the psu cooler and exhausting more heat from the pc.

Gladiator

which would you think is better the Enermax psu or the Sparkle, i have to say i lean more towards Enermax

Xenophobic

Couple of questions on the above:
Do I need to buy the extra fans for the case separately?
Will I have any problems fitting that fan into that case?
Is there anywhere in Dublin I can buy a *desktop* case with multiple fans and a 300Watt PSU?


Thanks,.

Xeno

Gladiator

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xenophobic:
Couple of questions on the above:
Do I need to buy the extra fans for the case separately?
Will I have any problems fitting that fan into that case?
Is there anywhere in Dublin I can buy a *desktop* case with multiple fans and a 300Watt PSU?


Thanks,.

Xeno</font>

no and simple as that, you will find it very hard to get a desktop case in ireland with a 250 watt psu let alone higher and no fans

get a Coolercase Tornado (Macron 300W PSU)


6 80mm ys tech fans and 300 watt psu and silding motherboard tray, all for 108 sterling,
you wont beat that price in ireland, and since your allready getting stuff from ocuk check it out

_CreeD_

OCUK will charge you a fortune in shipping for the case, and it will be pretty noisey.

I recently bought a full tower from http://www.marx-computers.com 300W PSU. Their largest has 5 5.25" bays, 2 3.5". There's only one extra fan spot at the top back...BUT, there are extra peripheral port cutouts at the back just above the CPU. And I found an exhaust blower (you can get from OCUK) wedges very nicely in between the 2nd parallel and serial port holes (Just bend the metal inwards to then sandwich it in place - takes all of one minute) This positions it right over your CPU on the KT7A, with about 1" clearance over an FOP38.

[This message has been edited by _CreeD_ (edited 27-06-2001).]

Gladiator

im buying this one in afew weeks

now this will be loud

Xenophobic

Um, yes... nice case. Do you have to chain it down to stop it going into hover mode?

I think I'll just stick with the current choice, I might have a check in Peats at their cases to save on P&P (how good are these for heat dissipation?)

So I'll probably order this lot next week then, I'll throw in one of those Slot exhaust fans for good measure.

BTW, there is no chance of my opening a PSU, thats some serious power going through there.


Xeno

Gladiator

well ask what the extra p&p on the case is, its allways best to shop around, peat aint exactly know to be cheap, and it might work ou better buying something in for ocuk, they have loads of cases, some with fans and some without.
if you are buying in ireland check out malpins its abite of a hole, but has cheaper prices then peats,