F1 Stitch-up!

mike65

What do you make of todays Austrian GP? Barrichello romping home with about 10 seconds clear air then suddenly he slows down and right at the death "allows" Schumacher to "win" the race. Neither driver was happy abou the team orders afterwards.

Given Schmacher is well clear of the pack (about 20 points) already, was this one stitch-up too many? Its just as well Rubens is getting well paid for his troubles....

Btw well done Fisichella! Jordan in the points at last, and was'nt
Sato lucky, 10 years ago he's have been dead by the time the dust had cleared.

Mike.

kaimera

Complete and utter BOLLIX.

ffs...I'd hate for this to be a preview of the remainder of the season.

Sato is one lucky SoB!
MFG!
Some smash alright. And I'm still nopt 100% sure as to wtf actually happened....

Nice one Jordan tho....hopefully this will spur them on the better results.

adnans

having been confined to bed all weekend (sick), ive watched the whole show and have to say im very dissapointed with ferrari and their "team strategy". rubens proved himself yesterday and today as a great driver but he shouldnt have moved to allow michael to win the race.

isnt that sort of thing illegal in F1? i know its been done before by McLaren and Ferrari, but that was only because the championship was at stake.

Rubens Barrichello is the true winner of the Austrian Grand Prix and his girlfriend is also fit.

adnans

chernobyl

After DC let Mika through to win the Ausi GP the FIA made a rule so that no team could instruct one driver to allow his teammate to pass, it has never been followed, you can actually listen to the radio conversation last year, when Todd told Rubens to let Schumi go:

here

It was very ugly to see and i bet you wont see it again, F1 is in trouble and can not handle this kind of crap but Ferrari are in even deeper considering how open Schumi/Rubens were about the team orders and the mockery they made of the whole thing.


I would imagine Ferrari may loose all points from Austria or maybe something even more extreme, either way the FIA will act very soon.

Robbo

What's the worst thing about this is that Mick Schumacher practically has the championship sewn up already, there was no *need* for him to win.

Barrichello was superb all weekend and deserved the win. Ferrari have no so much shot, as launched a nuke at their collective feet. Barrichello's a popular driver and has only won once, he also comes across as one of the nicest of all the drivers.

Guy Incognito

At least the Ferrari fans booed Schumacher as well. I don't believe his talk about how it wasn't him, it was the head of Ferrari.

I was glad to hear Sato was alright too. Not even an injury, I was amazed by that. Still can't figure out how Montoya avoided it all.

Kali

ross brawns own words: "the team controlled everything" ... "that wasnt a race you were watching"


I think the busines side of F1 will be having a big look into this, it cant be allowed to continue in this manner.. and i cant imagine bernie ecclestone being happy with brawns words.

booing and hissing = unhappy fans = lack of interest in f1 = no money

on the plus side barrichello had a great weekend, is driving very well (to chumachers standard) and does realise that ppl will see that (and not the statistics)... still the podium and post-race interview were a pretty sorrowful sight.

sceptre

Sato is one lucky guy after that crash - really shows one of the reasons why these guys are so well paid.

The result - bah - after watching that I'd almost abandon the 2-driver per team structure and have only one per team:mad:

Pushing Barrichello up on the winners podium doesn't make it right.

Flukey

It was a disgrace. It makes a complete mockery of the whole sport. Either way the team were going to pick up 16 points and Schumacher would stretch his lead, so they should have let the race run its natural course.

Dont be at yourself

Ridiculous. Rubens had the better of every single driver out there all weekend and its absolutely infuriating that the better man didn't win. If this starts to happen more frequently, many people won't bother watching. We want to see a race, not politics.

CHRISTYG

It was an absolute disgrace, and sums up ENTIRELY why I stopped taking an interest in Grand Prix YEARS ago!


P.S. In case I get a few cracks as to "Why were you watching?" I was waiting to watch the play-off final. Honest!!!

spanner_head

It does make you sick doesn't it??
Rubins blew everyone away all weekend long and then because of 'the team' has to move over and let schumacher through.
It's bad biscuits. No F1 supporter was impressed with that at all.
Hopefully the FIA will do something about it..........

Hats off to jordan for putting a couple of pts on the boards. Much needed.

I know villeneuve got a 'drive thru' penalty for some antics with verstappen. I didn't see nothing wrong with that? Did anyone?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

chernobyl

Its a different situation this year to other years, infact Rubens has only let Michael pass once before and ironically it was in Austria last year.

F1 may be a business, but fans watch it as they watch any sport and expect compeditive and fair racing, competition to Ferrari are not able to live with them so fans expect Rubens to stick it to Schumi and Rubens earned that win, he was fastest in all but one session, flawless qualifying and race and the cackles from the crowd were fantastic, this crap has to stop.

If the race had finished naturally:

Montoya: 27
Schumacher: 50

So what was the "point"?

chernobyl

48) If in the opinion of the Formula One Commission a competitor fails to operate his team in a manner
compatible with the standards of the Championship or in any way brings the Championship into disrepute, the
FIA may exclude such competitor from the Championship forthwith

Those elite hackers have been @ Ferrari


Just incase its gone

Winning Hand

Originally posted by spanner_head

I know villeneuve got a 'drive thru' penalty for some antics with verstappen. I didn't see nothing wrong with that? Did anyone?

Funny, didnt think verstappen was driving this year . The penalty was for the overly aggressive "maneuvre" at the start of the race where villeneuve punted frentzen off.

As for ferrari, although I am no fan of barrichello (things he said and did last year) the ending made me physically sick. It brings the sport into disrepute and they deserved the booing they got. In other sports im sure they can be legally prosecuted (grobbelar?) for what they did and ross brawns belligerence in the post race interview brought my opinion of him down several notches "it was never a race" then why the **** are you here. The sh1t will hit the fan in the next few days imho as, immune as ferrari are to most fia proceedings Ecclestone will not be impressed with what happened. Ralf Schumachers facial expression in parc fermé said it all really

To end the post on a good note, well done to fisichella for an excellent drive. Hopefully it will signal a turnaround in fortunes in the team. I have to say that in the past few weeks I began to wonder about jordans commitment but his actions today re sato showed his true colours.
Sato the monocoque dodger

edit Mike, sato would of died 3 years ago, nevermind 10

The_Bullman

Originally posted by chernobyl
Its a different situation this year to other years, infact Rubens has only let Michael pass once before and ironically it was in Austria last year.

I am not sure what track it was at but i don't think that it was austria as michael schumacher has never won at the a1. I think coulthard or montoya won it last year.

also congratulations to fisicella on the 2 points. Its unfortunate that sky news kept on saying that he drove for renault instead of jordan.

mike65

Originally posted by Winning Hand



edit Mike, sato would of died 3 years ago, nevermind 10

True enough. I knew I'd over-egged it!

A quote from Renault boss

The sport of motor-racing is more important than Ferrari," furious Briatore said. "We can live without them. What happened here today is totally unacceptable. Ferrari took the spectators for imbeciles and manipulated the result. I hope the international governing body won't let this pass without doing anything. If that happened it would mean Ferrari are running Formula One."



Mike.

chernobyl

Originally posted by The_Bullman


I am not sure what track it was at but i don't think that it was austria as michael schumacher has never won at the a1.

Yeah well go watch the race again, it happened almost indentically where Rubens let Michael pass on the line for 2nd place..you must have missed that...


As for Sato surviving that acciden 3 years ago, im not sure.
F1 safety even though the cars lost 20% in their impact zones still improved in 98.

Sato was lucky (not to hurt) but attaching words such as "miracles", i doubt it.

Redshift

I have to say I was most dismayed by the ending of Todays GP It was an absolute disgrace.
I don't know if there is any precident for it but I think both Schumacher and Barichello should be disqualified for un-sportsmanlike conduct with the hope of knocking it on the head before everybody thinks they can do it.
Still Im delighted Jordan have finally scored points and they were well deserved by Fisichella for a great drive.

Kali

goddamn if theres one thing i hate its ppl hacking sites to make pointless statements.. anyway ferrari-group.com isnt ferraris main site.. ferrari.it is

DeVore

Well I'm not an F1 fan, though I've been dragged kicking a screaming into it by my two fanatical flatmates (RogueDotc and Slosh!) but I dunno about all this fuss.

Here's my 2c.

1. There are plenty of sports which are races where the teams act and coordinate to put one guy in the lead and then *wilfully* hold up the others. Cycling is one that springs to mind (Tour de France anyone?)

2. It really depends on whether this sort of thing is usual/allowable by the rules. From the way they were casually discussing who made the decision it seems that they certainly weren't denying anything.

I do think it was a poor show but if a team is there to win then you do what you have to within the rules laid down.
You think someone who makes a break down the wing in football is being denied something when he has to pass to the striker?

I dunno, the Tour de France analogy is hard to argue against, it really depends on what is considered fair play and acceptible according to the rules and the general consensus of the sport.

DeV.

jonno

Before I start I am a Schumi fan and always will be.

But what happened today nearly made me sick I could'nt believe it. Rubeniho definately deserved the win, we all know that.

But I don't understand why ye are all so surprised. Team orders have been around since the sport started. Ferrari are probably the biggest culprits but McLaren have done it in the past, so have Jordan. I think it was way to early for such a manoevre in the championship.
But what Ferrari said made sense. If it came to the end of the season they lost it by a small margin, people would look back and say why didn't they revert to the team orders they are so infamous for.

And you can't really blame Schumacher for been the best driver in the world. He was brought to Ferrari with the sole intention of bringing the WDC back to Maranello. Schumi was the man who did it.Ferrari are greedy and anyone who follows F1 religiously knows that. They want to continue winning and their opinion is he is the most consistant driver to do it. Montezemolla is running the show there. The orders come from him and Todt. Brawn, Schumi and Rubeniho just carry them out. They can't be blamed. Obviously Schumi does want to win but not like this.

It still sucks though, I feel really sorry for Rubeniho. He a really good driver and has come into his own at Ferrari. I think that maybe his new deal has some sort of clause that puts him on par. That may be why he wsn't that upset over the incident. He said he's looking forward to the next two years. Just speculation.

jonno

Originally posted by DeVore
Well I'm not an F1 fan, though I've been dragged kicking a screaming into it by my two fanatical flatmates (RogueDotc and Slosh!) but I dunno about all this fuss.

Here's my 2c.

1. There are plenty of sports which are races where the teams act and coordinate to put one guy in the lead and then *wilfully* hold up the others. Cycling is one that springs to mind (Tour de France anyone?)

2. It really depends on whether this sort of thing is usual/allowable by the rules. From the way they were casually discussing who made the decision it seems that they certainly weren't denying anything.

I do think it was a poor show but if a team is there to win then you do what you have to within the rules laid down.
You think someone who makes a break down the wing in football is being denied something when he has to pass to the striker?

I dunno, the Tour de France analogy is hard to argue against, it really depends on what is considered fair play and acceptible according to the rules and the general consensus of the sport.

DeV.

I agree with you "if a team is there to win then you do what you have to within the rules laid down". it's common sense.

Coyote

You will never have a fair race when two drivers from the same team are racing each other. They will never let driver’s race each other they are driving mult-million pound cars. No team boss would take the chance of loosing both the cars and the 1 and 2 place in a race. So what would happen if you make what happened illegal is Barrichello would start to slow down and Michael would make it look like a over taking manoeuvre, and you would never know who real should have won the race. At lease this way everyone knows that Barrichello really won the race and Michael just gets the points.

Barrichello just got paid 10 million pounds for the next 2 years, he knew what he would have to do.
And the amount of years that F1 goes down to the last race or two to see who wins is often enough, so at no time can you sit back and think we have won when there is still points out there.
It’s a team sport and they are working as a team to win the constructor championship and driver championship

Coyote

jonno

Originally posted by Coyote
So what would happen if you make what happened illegal is Barrichello would start to slow down and Michael would make it look like a over taking manoeuvre, and you would never know who real should have won the race. At lease this way everyone knows that Barrichello really won the race and Michael just gets the points.

That's true too. That's what they used to say to Irvine when he was at Ferrari, so that the pit-to-car radio conversations wouldn't be picked up and scanned by the FIA. They used to say for him to take it easy because the telementery was showing something wrong. Irvine knew this meant. He said it himself.

Also remember Schumacher in Malaysia in '99. He lead the whole race and then did exactly what Rubeniho did. He slowed right down and make it obvious he was letting Irvine past for the win. Also Salo and Irvine in Germany in '99, Salo raced brilliantly and slowed right down and let Irvine passed. Salo would have got his first GP victory but the team were gunning for the WDC

Balfa

1.
You're all being a little naive saying ferrari are in it to win championships. Sure, that's part of it, but the reason they're there is to make money. And by making themselves and the sport less popular by doing what they did yesterday will not make them more money. I'm an avid ferrari fan but yesterday was sickening. It wasn't good for the fans, and what's bad for the fans is bad for the business.

2.
Team orders haven't always been there. Some of the greatest rivalries in the past were between teammates. What about Prost and Senna in 88 and 89. Mansell and Piquet before that? And even earlier.. Fangio and Moss of the 50s... It's fantastic, crowd pleasing stuff. What happened yesterday isn't.

spanner_head

just read a 'breaking news' headline on the bbc website....
apparently ferrari have been summoned by the FIA.

Hopefully the FIA will throw some toys at them.....

OLDYELLAR

i know , i nearly got sick when they reached the finish line . i know there a team like but still , i couldnt see any sport in that , .the winner is the guy first to the finish line not the guy the heads at ferrari want to finish first .whats the point if they are going to fix the races like that .total sh*t in my opinion .

gandalf

Well as an occasional F1 watcher I think the team orders situation is disgusting. One of the reasons I move WWF topics off this board is because its rigged, yesterdays events make it harder for me to justify that stance when the best driver didn't/wasn't allowed win the race.

I have a feeling that the FIA will have to do something about this or as you all say risk losing support from the fans.

Gandalf.

smoke.me.a.kipper

terrible. just so bad for the sport as a whole.

Coyote

Why are people getting so worked up by this, all motor sport including F1 has been this way from the start.

It’s part of the sport team tactics, has been from day one, you do it in team sailing, in team cycling and other sports.

Cars on the same team never race. You can pretend all you want by adding laws saying that they must race but it’s never going to happen. No team owner is going to risk both cars, drivers in an accident for the rest of the year and possible loosing both cars (plus driver and constructor championship points) by letting them race.
Team drivers are just about never let race each other, there is millions of pounds at stake.
As for it being fixed its not any more fixed that football is because players pass the ball to the striker who is the best bet.

It’s a Team sport you play for the Team to win.


Coyote

GreenHell

I'm not a Ferrari fan, even if I was I don't know would I be one now.

The only effect that stun ferrari pulled yesterday had on me was, I lost all respect of the outfit, I think this is the way a lot of f1 fans are thinking right now, I had a hell of a lot of ferrari race strategy, tactics, engineering. Well its all gone now, whenever they did this before they needed the points badly its understandable but they didn't need the points yesterday......


Jordan got their first points, Sato's not going to die, so I'm happy with that part of the race, oh and bar didn't finish.

With Ferrari being pulled infront of the FIA's world concil, could both drivers lose their points?

FrostyThePeanut

Originally posted by GreenHell

but they didn't need the points yesterday......

They might need the points at the end of the season (although it looks increasingly unlikely that its going to be a close battle) but they cannot be taking anything for granted. There are a lot of races coming up that will suit the williams

GreenHell

Nope. Ferrari are going to win most of the races this season they are still leagues ahead of Williams and still developing.

simon_partridge

Originally posted by FrostyThePeanut

They might need the points at the end of the season (although it looks increasingly unlikely that its going to be a close battle) but they cannot be taking anything for granted. There are a lot of races coming up that will suit the williams

Yes, there are precedents - in 2000 Schumacher had a big lead by this stage but Hakkinen managed to overhaul it by August (though Schum eventually won anyway). Also Schumacher got injured in 1999 so he probably wants as many points as he can early doors in case it happens again.

It's also entirely possible that if Schumacher wins the title early then he may return the favour and let Rubinho through to win in an attempt to secure 2nd place in the championship...

GreenHell

Schumi didn't call the team orders yesterday.

Lucutus

The boldness of it all.

I just feel sorry for Rubins. Although I have a feeling he'll be performing excellently in the 2002 Ferarri. This may happen time and time again, if yesterday's race is allowed to go 'unpunished'.

Luc

FrostyThePeanut

Originally posted by GreenHell
Nope. Ferrari are going to win most of the races this season they are still leagues ahead of Williams and still developing.

Development of the 2003 car is starting in less than a month, so I guess that means the F2002 is not being developed anymore (not that it needs to). Bummer.

Originally posted by simon_partridge
It's also entirely possible that if Schumacher wins the title early then he may return the favour and let Rubinho through to win in an attempt to secure 2nd place in the championship...[/I]

If the championship is sewn up before the last race, there is no doubt that Schumi will help Rubens secure the best finish possible.

simon_partridge

Originally posted by FrostyThePeanut
If the championship is sewn up before the last race, there is no doubt that Schumi will help Rubens secure the best finish possible.

Well I don't know about "no doubt" - in theory he was supposed to let Eddie Irvine through in 1999 but Schumi wanted to be the first Ferrari champion himself so didn't help out. Maybe in the end he'll prefer winning himself to the team's ultimate good, but in fairness he will be under considerably more pressure to help out given yesterday's events.

jonno

Originally posted by simon_partridge

Well I don't know about "no doubt" - in theory he was supposed to let Eddie Irvine through in 1999 but Schumi wanted to be the first Ferrari champion himself so didn't help out. Maybe in the end he'll prefer winning himself to the team's ultimate good, but in fairness he will be under considerably more pressure to help out given yesterday's events.

If you think back to '99 in Malaysia (Schumi's comeback race) he lead the whole race and then slowed considerably to let Irvine thru' for the win. He then proceeded in slowing Hakkinen down for the remainder of the race while Irvine went off in the distance.

Fast forward to the last race of the season - Suzuka, Japan. Schumi got pole but Irvine qualified badly. Schumi led the race but it was up to Irvine to get into a position that would give Schumi the opportunity to let him by. I think Irvine's highest place in that race was fifth so Schumi couldn't help him. He may be four time WDC but he ain't a magician.

GreenHell

So you lied to me, John, you told me he could pull rabbits out of his exhaust.

jonno

No I said Dead Rabbits.

mike65

From Formula 1.com

The FIA published a directive governing the use of team orders in April 1998, which were re-issued as a reminder in August 1999. This reflects the FIA's current stance on the subject. It read:

"There is no prohibition of team orders as such. The World Council merely reminded competitors of the long-standing provisions of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, which prohibit "any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition" and made it clear that any such act would be penalised.


Briazilian President Fernando Henrique Cardoso issued a statement saying: "Today, all Brazil is unanimous. Rubens Barrichello was the winner of Austrian Grand Prix. The cup is his."

I would'nt fancy wearing Ferrari colours round San Palo
next season!

Mike.

chernobyl

Originally posted by DeVore

.

1. There are plenty of sports which are races where the teams act and coordinate to put one guy in the lead and then <edit>

2. It really depends on whether this sort of thing is usual/allowable by the rules.

I<edit>but if a team is there to win then you do what you have to within the rules laid down.

Although most F1 fans watch F1 and view it as the greatest sport in the world but the hard fact is that F1 is cold business but what occurs on the track is supposed to be fair and sporting and no one apart from the driver has the right to shape the out come of a race in such a manner.

The event that we witnessed on Sunday are nothing new, Damon Hill handed Prost a championship with this tactic and DC and Mika played switcheroo in Australia, but after the latter event (and the whole Williams/Mclaren thing in Jerez in 97), the FIA created several rules which states that no one on the pit wall or no driver can work in collusion with his team mate to shape the race order.

This is where the problems start, the FIA has never had any consistency in enforcing its own rules.
The FIA acts too harsh for silly events (Monty in Malyasia this year) and turns a blind eye to driver stupidity (DC in Spa 98).

Ferrari are a terribly arrogant team and also very powerful. Ferrari have used these tactics on 3 occasions after the rules were created, Malayasia 99, Austria 2001/2 and twice have gotten away with it.

Infact they are so arrogant, they ordered Rubens aside, live on Television, but this year "naughty school boy notes" were implemented.

From my perspective, Ferrari cheated on Sunday. A driver was instructed to stop racing to allow another to gain an unfair advantage and such actions, if the FIA had any stones would warrant Ferrari's dismissal from the championship (please god let it happen).

What kinda of chamionship wihtout Ferrari?

When many of you pay top dollar for "BerniE Vision" you expect at least to see a sporting race, but according to Michael and Ferrari, they are not there to race, just to win and if this means using unfair and underhanded tactics then the end will justify the means.

But to what end?

From what Ferrari and the drivers have said, i can only conclude that money is the end.
Michael and Rubens are even instructed that they cannot race each other....
So if Ferrari are not interested in racing, does F1 really need these greedy cheat so badly?

When their own Tifosi boo them to fuk, then no, we dont.

GreenHell

Would be interesting not to have Ferrari there, I can think of a few people who won't be happy, not happy at all (hi john) given that schumi was a contract with them till 2004.

I won't lose any sleep if they left, make the sport more interesting. Odds of them being kicked out are nill though.

2 points!!!!

I think they should lose at least the points they got in the race, which would make happy 5 points!!!!! 5 points!!!.

They won't be kicked out, as much as they screwed up F1 with that one act F1 still needs them.

Dont be at yourself

I'd prefer to see them kicked out than go unpunished - Ferrari are in danger of making the sport even more sleep-inducing than it already is with this sort of carry on.

Its interesting to note that with the new car, Rubenio is more than able to match Schuey's speed at most tracks (out of the last three races he out qualified him once and twice was pipped at the post), so the situation may very well arise again - and Ferrari stand by their decision so a repeat of what happened isn't that unlikely.

Either strip them of their points, give Rubens the win or come down hard on them - let them know that they can't expect to get away with it.

chernobyl

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan

out of the last three races he out qualified him once and twice was pipped at the post

In Spain, he was more than pipped, Schumi pulled out almost 1/2 a second in his last lap.
But it is great to see Schumacher genuinely beaten on the track in all but one session.
Ferrari wont repeat Sundays "call" anymore, that is final.
I hope Rubens goes for it now.

Originally posted by NekkidBibleMan

Either strip them of their points, give Rubens the win or come down hard on them -

Stripping their points is what should happen, but not nearly exteme enough, but they cant give the win to Rubens.
It just cannot be done.

Trojan

Originally posted by mike65
From Formula 1.com

The FIA published a directive governing the use of team orders in April 1998, which were re-issued as a reminder in August 1999. This reflects the FIA's current stance on the subject. It read:

"There is no prohibition of team orders as such. The World Council merely reminded competitors of the long-standing provisions of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, which prohibit "any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition" and made it clear that any such act would be penalised.

Can someone explain to me how that is not a contradictory statement? Seems to me to be. More on that in a minute.

In any case, I believe that Ferraris decision was the correct business decision, given the goals of 1) winning the driver championship, and 2) winning the constructors championship.

If they allowed racing within the team, they stand the risk of failing to achieve both goals, plus putting their machinery at further risk and increasing damage expenses.

That said, I think that they should not be allowed team orders, that it *should* be prohibited, and that F1, and BE, need to cop on and start taking control of the sport they own. The above statement about rules, and competition is a perfect example.

I was a fan for years, and up to about 1998 I used to watch every race live. Since then it's gone downhill rapidly, and has lost its appeal. I can barely be bothered watching the highlights now, never mind the entire race, and as for getting up at 4am, forget that idea.

BE needs to stand up to the might of Ferrari (he hasn't ever had a problem telling the TV stations where to go).

Unfortunately, then we will see the situation, where as Ross Brawn pointed out, the team will be able to hide what they are doing by changing pit-stops, etc.

Is there a solution? Allow the race to be destroyed for the fans, but keep the businesses happy? That's what's currently happening. Or do we force the teams to *appear* to be competing fairly, thus driving them to hide their scheming? At least in the latter case, they may be caught, and seriously punished for breaking the rules.

I'm glad I follow Jordan, not a Ferrari.

Lets hope the season becomes more interesting.

Al.

chernobyl

Originally posted by Trojan


In any case, I believe that Ferraris decision was the correct business decision, given the goals of 1) winning the driver championship, and 2) winning the constructors championship.

Is'nt retrospect beautiful?
As a business decision, it could possibly turn out to be the worst team order ever with disasterous implications for Ferrari retail and possible business earnings in advertising. (unlikely, but depending on how the FIA handle the situation and what labels the FIA attach to Ferrari's actions, it could be that bad)

As a race for titles decision, again terrible:
Even if Ferrari recieve no punishment for their actions, the 4 points they gained for Michael wont aid him in any way but should it turn out that Michael wins via those 4 points....again not good.

..and most likely Ferrari will loose all thier points from Austrial, knocking Michael back to 44, Rubens to 6 and unlikely as it may be, but the other drivers may all be moved up 2 places if Ferrari are removed completely from Austria race results.

worst case scenario:
Michael: 44
Montoya: 34


/it was a pi$$ poor decision and Ferrari need to be made a sacrificial lamb for this, just for the entertainment value.

bobsmith833

At the end of the day, outlawing this practice is as impossible as outlawing alcohol - you just end up driving it underground. As someone said before, Rubinho could have just pretended to have a problem on the last lap and Schum overtakes him and no-one would be any the wiser.