sry.. But the story with ADSL at the moment is?

-ADREN-

sry.. But the story with ADSL at the moment is?

po0k

AFAIK it'll be about january 2002 before Dublin customers will have it.
move country. Or marry an Eircom employee. They and their friend get to "trial" it. Swines.

-ADREN-

January 2002 aint bad thats ... bout 6 months not to long to wait i suppose .. but how long till it reaches Limerick?

chernobyl

According to a girl in eircom, ADSL is being supplied to banks etc in CBD in dublin.
Resedential will begin in september with ISDN exchanges getting preference but most exchanges in dublin are good to go.

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PiE

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by [FCA]SyxPak:
They and their friend get to "trial" it. Swines.</font>

Not all of them unfortunately, I already got my friends uncle to try and arrange it, but to no avail.

Swines.

Son of Blam

Eircom are going to start selling DSL in selected parts of Dublin (subject to an exchange check etc) in September 2001.

-Son of Blam

nard

can you spell expensive ?

Bard

http://www.esatfusion.ie/adsl/adslp1.shtml

...interesting.

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Bard

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Ying-Tong-Iddle-I-Po!

amp

Yeah, especially the requirements that says:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Your PC must meet certain minimum requirements. These minimum requirements include the following: 16 bit sound card, USB socket on your computer, 150Mb free on the hard drive, Pentium 200Mhz or equivalent and a video card/display capable of 800x600.
</font>

16-bit sound card? Does the line connect to the midi port or something?

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Lunacy Abounds! GLminesweeper RO><ORS!
art is everything and of course nothing and possibly also a sausage

flamegrill

Just a note on xDSL in Ireland, I think we may be fooling ourselves into thinking that we may have xDSL in the next 6 months, but i feel the way the current climate is going and until the local loop is "unbundled" at a cheaper price and eircom are finished in the courts, we are probably not going to get an affordable xDSL solution.

This is my opinion on the matter

I would not complain if we got xDSL as early as september obviously, but I dont see it happening anytime soon


[This message has been edited by flamegrill (edited 04-06-2001).]

-ADREN-

But cant the ODTR set the price they want for the ADSL, local loop what ever.. didnt they set it at like 13.50 for a month or somthing.. and h=why doesnt the government do something about the monopoly that Eircom is doing atm, conserning unbundiling the LL.

flamegrill

well you see, eircom have taken the ODTR set to the courts, they think the price that the ODTR is too low. So when that court case is finished with, maybe then somthing will happen.

let us all pray for xDSL


[This message has been edited by flamegrill (edited 04-06-2001).]

Snaga

Afaik Esat is very against bit stream access as it doesnt give them the control over the line.

If they do sell bit stream and joe soap the punter cant get online, hes got to ring esat and esat has to ring eircom. The control just isnt there to make it viable really especially for a company who has the resources to handle it themselves if they can get physical access to the wires.

Bit stream access is being pushed by eircom as they simply dont want to give access to the local loop to anyone, but if the price the ODTR set stays then its cheap enough to put their own equipment in(esat, eurokom etc..) rather than rent eircom equipment and muddle the whole operation up.

dahamsta

Ok, let's dispel a few myths and kill off some disinformation...

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">http://www.esatfusion.ie/adsl/adslp1.shtml</font&gt;

Sorry Bard, but as someone else pointed out that's been up there for ages, six months minimum. By all means fill it in though, let them know you're there.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">16-bit sound card? Does the line connect to the midi port or something?</font>

This isn't unusual for ISP requirements. It's possible, even probable, that they'll try and tie subscribers into their own services and sites, like a lot of dialup ISP's do now. When you or they install the software, it'll brand your browser and mailer and set default homepages and the like. Because the service will be broadband, it's likely they'll introduce multimedia services too, hence the sound and video requirements. This was Eircom's original intention, and is a contributing factor to them sizing down and discontinuing the DSL trials - the regulator made it difficult for them, because she allowed monopolistic area coverage clauses into the cable providers contracts, thus precluding Eircom from selling most multimedia services.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">as for when there going to start selling it. jan 2002 is the date set and they will not be selling it befor then. thats from the head of ADSL in eircom</font>

No, that's what the head of ADSL in Eircom is told to tell people. Eircom could start rolling out DSL tomorrow if they wanted to, there is no technical reason for them not to. And if the takeover of Eircom is completed with someone sensible at the helm, that's what will happen. Don't believe the hype.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">well you see, eircom have taken the ODTR set to the courts, they think the price that the ODTR is too low. So when that court case is finished with, maybe then somthing will happen. let us all pray for xDSL</font>

Actually, to be fair, I've seen no actual evidence of this. It's a rumour I have to admit I propogated myself, but I'm not entirely sure it's true. It could be, but I've yet to see it being reported definitively in the press.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">DSL modems are in the finel tests and are beening installed in tel exchange around dublin.</font>

DSL modems go in your computer, the thing that goes in an exchange is a DSLAM, and they've been installed and running in exchanges in Dublin and Ennis for several years now.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">they will starts selling DSL servers in jan 2002.</font>

What, pray tell, is a DSL server?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">esat can not do any thing. they just have to wait till the they get access to the tel exchanges, even if they got access today it woudl take them min 6-12 months to do up plans get the tec setup right and then to install them.</font>

Most of the arrangements for actual local loop unbundling have been agreed upon by the ODTR, Eircom and the OLO's for the best part of a year. SLA'a are being finalised at the moment, so the only real thing holding LLU back is pricing. If Eircom agree to pricing tomorrow, Esat can go into an exchange tomorrow. The suggestion that Esat aren't technically prepared to start rolling out DSL is frankly ludicrous.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">what they will be doing 99% chance is reselling the DSL modems that eircom installed for the same or a bit cheeper. this is called bit rate selling.</font>

Bitrate is actually the reason all the OLO's *except* Esat pulled out of DSL trials in the first place. Esat will roll out DSL either way, and bitrate can't be ruled out, but the regulator has released a decision notice which allows co-location, virtual co-location and bitstream.

adam

[This message has been edited by dahamsta (edited 04-06-2001).]

Joe23

dahamsta were i work, it took esat 3 months to install a t1 xdsl connection, esat arent as quick as you may like.

and btw what exactly is a DSLAM, ive a ruff idea but could you please explain, thank you.

chernobyl

The DSLAM seperates the voice and data signals.
Also routes the DSL lines from the users end into the providers network.

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chernobyl

Why has eircom been so secretive about DSL?
i recently had a email from some1 @ eircom with the address of ****@adsleircom.ie.when i asked the guy if he was involved in eircoms DSL he refused to reply.
jesus the least they could do is toss us a bone.

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flamegrill

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by chernobyl:
i recently had a email from some1 @ eircom with the address of ****@adsleircom.ie.
</font>

i dont know about the address adsleircom.ie , but i know it doesnt exist
a quick host -la adsleircom.ie proves that,

root@homelands:~# host adsleircom.ie

Host not found.

there should be an mx record for the domain name even if there is no website.
also a quick check in the .ie domain registry also says that the domain does not exist.

[This message has been edited by flamegrill (edited 04-06-2001).]

chernobyl

sorry if i did not get it right but it was some variation of that then, maybe coyote will know.
but there is an ADSL division with a email like that.i sold the guy my old office 97 so it was a bit back.

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Leverz

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Coyote:

when people say DSL that means any of the the folling thing DSL types:
HDSL
ADSL
SDSL
XDSL
DSL

</font>

Most of your points are valid a number I would disagree on, one thing though, XDSL? No such thing I'm afraid, xDSL covers all flavors of DSL.
As for it taking 8-10 months for Esat to roll out DSL, I think that you will be surprised, nationwide will be slow, like eircom, but for the heavily populated areas you will see them out on the streets within weeks.

dahamsta

Coyote,

"dahamsta as someone part of the trial i might know what i'm talking about."

I don't believe you.

"now if you think you can talk to the head of the DSL you just try it. lol"

I don't want to.

"do you even know what his name is ?"

I don't need to.

"I have had meeting wiht the board of eircom and the head of DSL in there board-room, i have seen the maps of the Tel exchanges and where they reach and at what speed. I know the places where it's installed how many people on it when the next faze of it's starting how many people will be on that what tel exchanges that it will be running from. what the line speeds can be."

And I don't believe any of that.

Sorry.

dahamsta

And Leverz just posted one of the reasons why I don't believe you. You're working off rumour, supposition and disinformation, and it was obvious from your first post. Me, I work off it too, because there's very little real information out there, but at least I read the ODTR documents and technical information and piece it together in a coherent manner.

Please, stop, you're just confusing the issue.

adam

mayhem#

Coyote,

You might want to check your facts a bit before you start acting like you know the in and out's of xDSL in Ireland.
I also find it kinda hard to believe that someone who has level of spelling and grammar ends up in the same room as "the board of Eircom"......

chernobyl

you guys are fairly distrusting.

lets test Coyote though....
if you work at the top of the Eircom tree then setup a temporary email address @ Eircom so you can prove these guys wrong...
And their distrust of you in nothing to do with their jealously of you if in fact you have DSL of some flavour.

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dahamsta

Nuffing to do with distrust chernobyl. Credibility is the keyword.

adam

Stephen

I think Coyote's spelling and grammar can be forgiven, seeing as he is dyslexic.

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- Munch

Kegser

Bear in mind also that Coyote manages a large Internet Cafe; and therefore would be one of Eircoms leased-line customers... I find it reasonable to assume he would be able to get info on DSL, as seen as he may want to use it at some point in the future.

Leverz

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Coyote:

I have had meeting wiht the board of eircom and the head of DSL in there board-room, ...</font>

Hmmm, Manager of Internet Cafe taken in for a board meeting?
Hard to believe, no matter the size of the cafe.

Spelling can be forgiven, but failure to use the spell checker? :P

Labyrinth

The silly story of xDSL that wont go away.....

First of all, I want to say that I work in the networking and communication business. Now when I say that, I am at the level that I know what I'm talking about. Sorry, I know thats very egotistical, but I just want to set the record straight on DSL.

1) Eircom made all their DSL staff redundant in March - How can you roll out a network with no staff ?

2) The primary motive behind Eircom not rolling out DSL at this point in time is that they have no interest in deploying a data only service. They want to rollout a multimedia based broadband service ( why do you think they have all those multimedia companies ). The first problem with this is that ADSL is no use - you need at least 6Mb/s bandwidth to provide a MPEG2 video stream. ADSL can be stretched to 2Mb/s. so they have to use vDSL to get the higher bit rate.

Secondly on this, NTL and Chorus have exclusive rights to transmit tv signals - Eircom have tried to take the OTDR to court on this and it failed. Eircom hoped that when NTL announced that they wouldnt meet their quota of serviced homes in Dublin that they would be censured and that exclusive clause taken away. Hence they would be able to get into the market. When no action was taken by the OTDR, they stopped all DSL development and let all their staff go.

3) Eircom have played this game before - not offering frame relay services and still pushing X25. You had to threaten Eircom with court action ( nearly ) to get them to provide Frame Relay. Remember when it took 4 months+ to get an ISDN line installed ??

It is possible to get a pair of unconditioned copper wires from Eircom ( as long as they run in and out of the same exchange ) and to install your own DSL modems. I have numerous large clients who have been doing this for several years. Again, you needed a lot of clout with Eircom to get them. Eircom are very anti-broadband and a lot of people over the years have tried to keep their unconditioned circuit, and just increase the speed of the modems on them. Still to this day, Eircom will just say 'we have moved you to our digital network' and tough luck that your baseband circuit is now conditioned...

I wont go into a dissertation on how exaclty xDSL works and its limitations.... but dont expect ESAT to deploy DSL in less than 6 months after gain access to the LL. 6 months is optimistic - only IF they actually have all the equipment on order.

Oh yeah...and Esat are the penniless child of the finacially destitute BT.

Nuff said...

Ace Rimmer.

chernobyl

Ace i read the first paragraph of you post and i will read no more cuz you made a big big error.
ADSL can run @ a maximum of 8MBit/s even with some1 being 3.5K from the exchange and SDSL has maximum in the 60MBit/s range.
2Mbit/sec "Mulitmedia" services would not make that connection break a sweat.

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jd

actually they didn't make their dsl staff redundant-they didn't renew the contract of the suits from kpmg

Kix

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ace Rimmer:
( why do you think they have all those multimedia companies </font>

Generally I agree with you, but I guess that should be "had all those multimedia companies"

Son of Blam

Hehehe, man this is a funny thread. A lot of wrong stuff has been posted though.

a) All of Eircom's DSL staff were not made redundant. The DSL team (called the Hotwire team) was shut down during Eircom Multimedia's "cutbacks" and most of the staff are doing different things, working in the NOC in Crown Alley and whatever.

b) Eircom aren't "anti-dsl". They're starting trials of new hardware next week with around 100 people, only from on exchange on the soutside to start with though. After that trial they'll do another trial in more exchanges. They want to start selling ADSL in September this year.

c) ADSL won't be a cheap alternative to leased lines. Main reason? Eircom are going to impose a 1 gig download limit a month on most of their ADSL packages. (typical price is 512k down/128k up at 60 quid a month, this isn't fixed however)

d) I know a lot of people here "work in the telcom business" or "were in a room full of Eircom executives" or "read the Irish Times everyday" but in reality there's no definite ADSL facts set in stone. However Eircom do want to sell it. Half the people who read the technology boards give out so much you'd swear they don't want ADSL to start happening. Believe me kiddos, September is when they wanna get that tasty broadband juice pumpin'.

-Son of Blam

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ace Rimmer:
The silly story of xDSL that wont go away.....</font>

I'm not for a moment disputing the truth of any of your points here. But I think there are several ways to look at the situation.

I have always felt that one of the reasons that Eircom do not xDSL is because they have no competition in this area. Without LLU, no other company can provide xDSL and consequently Eircom can continue to sell ISDN (hi-speed), 64kbs and 256kbs leased lines to customers.

I was aware that they hoped to provide video on demand, but I'm interested in your opinion on the above.

I'm surprised that they sacked their DSL specialists. I had always assumed that when LLU was finally settled, they would roll out a competing product in order to maintain market share. This sacking would indicate that they have no fears that LLU will occur (I mean actually letting competitors' equipment into their exchange). Or it could simply mean stripping off the fat for the Great Eircom Sale. Would you agree that having, say, Esat selling ADSL would be a disaster for Eircom?

BTW, I think the decision by the ODTR to deny Eircom the video on demand thing was wrong. It allowed NTL to relax and continue to provide 1950s style analogue cable television to most of Dublin, Galway and Waterford. After they announced their watered down plans this, in turn, took the pressure off Eircom and the ISPs. The decision was anti-competitive.

Your post means that the Ireland Offline needs to be more vigourous and agressive if it is to succeed. And I've no doubt it will succeed.

flamegrill

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Coyote:
Anyone who dose not think i'm telling the truth fine i do not care :P
it makes no diff to me if you think i'm telling the truth or not.
what i have told you is that is happening.

Coyote</font>

I'm afraid to say that weather people believe you or not is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that know one knows for sure, I would say not even the eircom board of directors, know when exactly the role out of xDSL to us Joe Soaps is going to happen. I do believe we should all just sit tight and wait to see what happens and when it happens.


I also don’t think "we" as in us people who post on this tech forum do not want xDSL, we are merely anxious as to when it is going to happen, you all know IOL are cutting us off, so this is why.

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Son of Blam:

Hehehe, man this is a funny thread. A lot of wrong stuff has been posted though.

a) All of Eircom's DSL staff were not made redundant. The DSL team (called the Hotwire team) was shut down during Eircom Multimedia's "cutbacks" and most of the staff are doing different things, working in the NOC in Crown Alley and whatever.
</font>

Why, after three years of testing xDSL, are the DSL team doing different things when Eircom are about to launch DSL in september? Doesn't seem to make sense, but then we're talking about Eircom.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
b) Eircom aren't "anti-dsl". They're starting trials of new hardware next week with around 100 people, only from on exchange on the soutside to start with though. After that trial they'll do another trial in more exchanges. They want to start selling ADSL in September this year.
</font>

They are always starting ADSL in about 3 months time. I remember when it was September 2000 they were starting ADSL. Staff within Eircom believed this too. I don't think Eircom are anti-dsl as such. What Eircom, like any other company, would like to do is make money without making doing anything. They will offer ADSL if there is no other option. You may be right this time, but you will need to do better to convince me.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
c) ADSL won't be a cheap alternative to leased lines. Main reason? Eircom are going to impose a 1 gig download limit a month on most of their ADSL packages. (typical price is 512k down/128k up at 60 quid a month, this isn't fixed however)
</font>

I certainly believe this. If Eircom can prevent competition on their local lines (i.e. no LLU) then what we can expect is a crippled version of ADSL so they can continue to sell obsolete and inferior products for huge profits.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
d) I know a lot of people here "work in the telcom business" or "were in a room full of Eircom executives"
</font>

Q: How can you tell an Eircom executive is lying?
A: You can see his lips moving.

I've never worked in Eircom but I know a few. Their main complaint is that they get the mushroom treatment.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
or "read the Irish Times everyday" but in reality there's no definite ADSL facts set in stone. However Eircom do want to sell it. Half the people who read the technology boards give out so much you'd swear they don't want ADSL to start happening. Believe me kiddos, September is when they wanna get that tasty broadband juice pumpin'.
-Son of Blam</font>

Forgive me for being Skeptical



[This message has been edited by Skeptic1 (edited 06-06-2001).]

chernobyl

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Son of Blam:

Eircom are going to impose a 1 gig download limit a month on most of their ADSL packages.
d) Believe me kiddos, September is when they wanna get that tasty broadband juice pumpin'.

-Son of Blam</font>

A download limit means that this is not broadband.(this is just my opinion)

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dahamsta

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I also don’t think "we" as in us people who post on this tech forum do not want xDSL</font>

Golden rule of posting on forums and mailing lists: Don't try and represent others.

I'd take DSL if it was offered me tomorrow, and I'd be willing to pay up to £150 a month for it, and that would *save* me money. Matter of fact, I'd be willing to pay that for a 64k always-on connection.

Course I'm not your average user, and some people might be p1ssed that I posted that, on the off chance that someone from Eircon would see it, but it's a fact, and I don't care. The current situation is already hurting my business, and when SNL goes it's going to make it even worse.

ODTR? Broaband? Broadband my **** . Come into the real world and have a look around Etain.

adam

chernobyl

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Poopman:
What are typical upload/download limits for adsl in USA?

</font>

in short...there are none.

chorus have started this crap with their 3GB cap on their "broadband" powernet.

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Lex_Diamonds

OMG! I thought Chorus were bad with their 3gb!!! A 1gb limit would make ADSL unusable for any length of time.

Bard

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by dahamsta:
sorry Bard, but as someone else pointed out that's been up there for ages, six months minimum. By all means fill it in though, let them know you're there.</font>

Oh hell yeah- I accept that... I just said it was "interesting", that's all - it's interesting to see what this ISP are saying about xDSL... however factually bereft it may or may not be... - the link was really more for the benefit of those who may not have been aware of what Esat were publicly saying about DSL.

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Bard

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"Henry! The cat wants to go out!" ... "Oh dear, Min! Is he on fire, again?"

Skeptic1

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Son of Blam:
b) Eircom aren't "anti-dsl". They're starting trials of new hardware next week with around 100 people, only from on exchange on the soutside to start with though. After that trial they'll do another trial in more exchanges. They want to start selling ADSL in September this year.
-Son of Blam</font>

Interestingly, the Irish Times has a story in the print edition along these lines today. Unfortunately, it's not on the web. I hope you're wrong about the 1 gig download limit.

NORTH1

Hello all.

I have been following this topic with a lot of interest and execitement with the thought of affordable fast internet connection. So when today I got a visit from an eircom sale’s rep, about my change from eircom to NTL due to NTL’s Free at weekend service, I though this was a good opportunity to ask about the “rolling out” of the DSL service in September.
He told me that he himself had heard nothing of the DSL service, put after mentioning my interest in returning to eircom if this service was coming available, he decided to make a call to his boss.
To which I got the following information.
Yes the DSL service is coming available in September,
Put only to the corporate market,
And they have no plans to make it available to the household consumer.

As I said this came from a sales rep from eircom so take from that what you may.

Brian.

Snaga

To be honest id be surprised if they were aiming their DSL to businesses rather than home users.

DSL is not a replacement for a leased line, purely because a leased line is the most stable type of connection out there, and large businesses want a robust connection and generally arent too woried about cost.

For SOHO(small office/home office) users DSL could be a major boon, but its as easy to supply it to them as it is to residential customers and i assume the pricing will be similar to both - although i assume residential will probably be on lower bandwidth

Gladiator

NORTH1 there is a January dead line for llu,
the real one is august some time but they have about 3 months before the first exchange has to be unbundled, after that its fines.
It was generally excepted by all that eircom would release ADSL a few months before llu took place to crab the market.
Now I seriously dough they will limit it to business although they are the only ones likely to pay £50 for a 1gig limit.

Eircom always said they would only provide it for business but they also said that would be a t1 connection. on their site they clearly state there will be two versions, one of 500k/sec and the other of undecided higher value.

Either which way esat will release ADSL soon a few eircom has and they wont be limiting their service to business.im also guessing it wont have a 1gig limit either

Lex_Diamonds

Gladiator, the deadline was last january. Eircom have been holding things up nicely you see

Gladiator

i know, that was the deadline for priceing llu, eircom met that with something like £40+ a month, at that stage all other telecos except esat pulled out.
now the odtr set a new deadline of some were in august were if eircom hasnt started llu, fines will follow and esat can sue eircom.
one problem, they have about 3 months before the first exchange has to be opened and 30 days for every one after that.
so the new real deadline for llu is sometime around january, persuming esat is on the ball to go into the exchanges every time a new stage coming around. i dont think they will be.
the only good thing about it is esat can pick the exchanges it wants to go into, otherwise eircom would start llu is the most unattractive exchanges in ireland and it would be years before llu reached dublin

irishguy

chernobyl,
the deffinition of broadband is anything over 56k dis includes isdn .but i know what u mean having a d/l limit is crap. if the have a 1gig d/l limit and a £60 a month charge they can can keep it at the moment i thae a 512k connection 4 £40 a month ,3gig d/l limit and 2p a meg after that.talking about vdsl which has a max speed at about 52mbs but can only run over 1,200 m of a copper twist pair btu if Fiber to the Neighborhood (FTTN) is implemented there will be no min range in built up areas .vdsl signels can run over fiber optic unlike adsl which would make is a more likly choise 4 the telecoms .also digital tv does not take up that much space so 1 said streaming mpeg 2 takes some thing like 6mbs ,well it doesent take quit that much but it doesent matter cus they aint going 2 b streaming the media it will be d/l like a file then expanded and played [this will happen with out delay so it will b like streaming media] copper cables we use in ireland provide 1.5mhz of sound bandwith and a digital channel using mpeg4 compression uses 0.6mhz to transmit 1 channel it will be decoded by a mpeg4 decoder at the receving end [it will be a box with a low spec pc in side,600mhz duron or celron]if u wanted 2 you could zip it as well and get another 10% compression but i think that u have enough space 4 as much as ur comp could handle.plez excuse my spelling i am dyslexic and too lazy to use spell check

chernobyl

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by irishguy:
chernobyl,
the deffinition of broadband is anything over 56k dis includes isdn </font>

i know what broadband is so you dont need to get *****y with me.
i did say that it was in my opinion and not fact.

Moriarty

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by chernobyl:
i know what broadband is so you dont need to get *****y with me.
i did say that it was in my opinion and not fact.

</font>

'OooooooooooooOOOOOOOOooooooooooo'

[IMG][/img]http://members.xoom.com/mrmoriarty/handbag.jpg

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Moriarty
mrmoriarty@eircom.net

I Give up trying to get that image working

[This message has been edited by Moriarty (edited 11-06-2001).]

Leverz

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by irishguy:
chernobyl,
the deffinition of broadband is anything over 56k dis includes isdn </font>

The definition of broadband does not include ISDN.