Kerryman survey shows Ferris leading

Bateman

The Kerryman paper has published a survey that shows Martin Ferris is likely to top the polls, and FF would be left without a North Kerry (in the 1970s they had 2!) seat for the first time since its existence. As I have said, SF is being over onfident, but Bertie writing them off could come back to haunt him. But wan't his quote "its a non runner <wait for it> at the monent .
Makes you wonder.

I'd agree.
If it's the difference between a Mercedes or not , all votes for Taoiseach will be welcomed.
mm

Biffa Bacon

Anyone who votes for Sinn Féin is committing treason. Bertie will never allow them into government for this reason.

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
Anyone who votes for Sinn Féin is committing treason. Bertie will never allow them into government for this reason.

ah...I didn't think of that one:D
mm

billy the squid

People are voting for sinn fein because they have something the government dont have, different ideas.

It would explain why the mainstream politicians are putting their foot in it with their radical statments. "people who commit suicide are selfish..." and so on. They are trying to be radical and making a hames of it.

Wasnt there a FF politician in Cork who called refugees "spongers", you can be sure that he is due to be re elected in fact I would guarantee it.

bonkey

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
Anyone who votes for Sinn Féin is committing treason.

Dont be ridiculous, or would you care to justify this claim?

jc

Biffa Bacon

Sinn Féin supports an illegal paramilitary organisation that does not recognise the legitimacy of the Republic or its govenment. Anyone who votes for Sinn Féin is thus complicit in this treason.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by fcddunne

Wasnt there a FF politician in Cork who called refugees "spongers", you can be sure that he is due to be re elected in fact I would guarantee it.

And 'wasters' but i wouldn't be so sure that he will be re-elected. What i found really strange was the fact that the MP in Britain who made the joke about Asians was booted from the Conservative party whereas our TD Noel O' Flynn didn't even get a slap on the wrist

Samson

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
Sinn Féin supports an illegal paramilitary organisation that does not recognise the legitimacy of the Republic or its govenment. Anyone who votes for Sinn Féin is thus complicit in this treason.

Sinn Féin have publicly stated (many times) that they now respect the legitimacy of the government of the 26 counties and its exclusive right to raise an army and police force.
The most recent example I can think of was Gerry Adams interview on "The Today Show With Pat Kenny" last week, where he reiterated this point.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Samson


Sinn Féin have publicly stated (many times) that they now respect the legitimacy of the government of the 26 counties and its exclusive right to raise an army and police force.
The most recent example I can think of was Gerry Adams interview on "The Today Show With Pat Kenny" last week, where he reiterated this point.

The IRA does not recognise this though. And Sinn Féin do not recognise the IRA as an illegal organisation.

Cork

People are voting for sinn fein because they have something the government dont have, different ideas.

Does Sinn Fein have an economic policy?
Are they marxist?


Sinn Fein have no answers about the killing of Jerry McCabe.

The shooting down of a guard in Adare.

It is about time Sinn Fein were asked the Hard questions - All their representives seem to give similar mantras.

Martin Ferris TD - hopefully not.

mike65

Have any Sinn Fein candidates been asked any probing questions on the state, the economy or foreign affairs? I've yet to hear the sound of whining provos on my radio or TV.

Mike.

Samson

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon

The IRA does not recognise this though. And Sinn Féin do not recognise the IRA as an illegal organisation.

I don't believe that the IRA are running any candidates in the general election.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Samson


I don't believe that the IRA are running any candidates in the general election.

So what? I'm not judging Sinn Féin on what the IRA does, I'm judging Sinn Féin on what Sinn Féin does. Sinn Féin supports an illegal paramilitary organisation, which makes them traitors.

Samson

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon

So what? I'm not judging Sinn Féin on what the IRA does, I'm judging Sinn Féin on what Sinn Féin does. Sinn Féin supports an illegal paramilitary organisation, which makes them traitors.

No, I disagree.
You made this point already about Sinn Féin being traitors, to which my retort was:

Sinn Féin have publicly stated (many times) that they now respect the legitimacy of the government of the 26 counties and its exclusive right to raise an army and police force.
The most recent example I can think of was Gerry Adams interview on "The Today Show With Pat Kenny" last week, where he reiterated this point.

Then you make a statement that this is not the case with the IRA, to which my retort was:

I don't believe that the IRA are running any candidates in the general election.

Now you are going back on your own words:

I'm not judging Sinn Féin on what the IRA does, I'm judging Sinn Féin on what Sinn Féin does.

I wish you would make up your mind as to what your argument is.

Victor

Even Gerry Kelly admits that the dogs on the street see little difference between Sinn Féin and the IRA.

Biffa Bacon

My argument is this:
1. The IRA is an illegal paramilitary organisation.
2. Sinn Féin supports the IRA.
3. Supporting an illegal paramilitary organisation is an act of treason.
4. Therefore Sinn Féin are traitors.

Samson

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
My argument is this:
1. The IRA is an illegal paramilitary organisation.
2. Sinn Féin supports the IRA.
3. Supporting an illegal paramilitary organisation is an act of treason.
4. Therefore Sinn Féin are traitors.

Thank you for clearing that up.
Now, in what way do Sinn Féin "support" the IRA ?
What exactly do you mean by this point ?

Victor

Guys can ye broaden the discussion from some pantomime-like "Oh yes they are, oh no they aren't" discussion.

Samson: Sinn Féin invariably claim credit for 'good' actions by the IRA, they act as a discussion / information forum, they provide political input and claim political credit.

Biffabacon: You have to realise, that while it is slow and imperfect, there is a move by Sinn Féin from revolutionary socialism / republicanism to democratic socialism / republicanism.

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by Samson

Now, in what way do Sinn Féin "support" the IRA ?

Good question? Why don't Sinn Fein answer it? Why don't they articulate the nature of the relationship between the 'two' organisations?

Gerry Adams was asked on one of Peter Taylor's programs about the north about how the decision making process leading to the good Friday Agreement operated. Adams got very uppity and said: (this is as near to verbatim as I can remember) 'you're trying your little tricks again Peter. I won't discuss with you, or with any other journalist, the mechanisms through which we communicate with the IRA'

So we can demand of normal politicians how they finance their campaigns. Demand scrutiny of their bank balances and where the money came from. Demand answers to questions as to what were the rewards promised to large 'donators' or 'supporters of the political process' and be suitably incensed by their obfuscation and stonewalling.

But when it comes to transparency by the Republican movement with regard to the activities of their 'alter egos' in the IRA, we are entitled to nothing other than 'we're not the IRA. How dare you suggest that we are.'

Don't worry about Ferris. North Kerry is and always has been a Provo hotbed. It's got to do with the folk memories of massacre and atrocity carried out there during the Civil War (Knocknagoshel, Ballyseedy etc). Such memories take a long time to die out, especially in 'close-knit rural' communities.

Most of the rest of the country has moved on to the 21st century.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by fcddunne
People are voting for sinn fein because they have something the government dont have, different ideas.

I'd love to hear what these "different ideas" are. So far, all I've heard are vague-as-fúck diatribes on how they'll fix this, that and t'other. The actual details from Sinn Fein have been almost non-existant.

I have another question for Sinners:
Considering they've been going on about corruption among mainstream parties, answer this: After four members of your political wing (the IRA) murdered Garda Jerry McCabe after a robbing a post office, where did the stolen cash end up?

Answers on a postcard please.

Biffa Bacon

Biffabacon: You have to realise, that while it is slow and imperfect, there is a move by Sinn Féin from revolutionary socialism / republicanism to democratic socialism / republicanism.

I do realise it. It does not mitigate the fact that they are still engaging in treasonous activities.

Biffa Bacon

Thank you for clearing that up.
Now, in what way do Sinn Féin "support" the IRA ?
What exactly do you mean by this point ?

Sinn Féin do not condemn the IRA.
Sinn Féin enter into political negotiations on the IRA's behalf.

The local Sinn Féin candidate called to my brothers house last week canvassing.
Now my brother is a strongly Republican fellow( he always votes FF:D ).
His first preference will if possible go to a Sinn Féin candidate if there is one, simply on the NI issue.

He has not delved into their policies much, but the other night they gave him their literature.....He looked at it....paused for thought and then said to the Sinn Féin candidate "...well, I agree with one of your aims anyhow..." "whats that?" they said to him, and he said..."the united Ireland part..."
Vote lost...
mm

Johnny 5

For the lad up there who'd like to know a bit about Sinn Fein's election manifesto. It's viewable at sinnfein.ie.

Here are just some interesting points, people should take note before jumping to conclusions about the party.

Sinn Fein will:-

- Provide an Irish-Language university.

- See that the 'No' vote in the Nice Treaty is seen through, it isn't democracy running the vote again to try and get a different vote when the people have spoken.

- Pull the Defence Forces out of the new EU Army, which sacrifices our neutrality.

- Back the cancellation of Third World Debt.

- Seek an end to the embargo on Cuba by the US, demand a Palestinian state and an end to the embargo on Iraq.

- Build an international alliance for the closure of Sellafield, they stress this point alot.

- Stop NATO forces using our airports for refuelling.


These are radical ideas, only reason why they are radical is because no one had the balls to do them.

This country needs a breath of fresh air, people argue about the links between Sinn Fein and the IRA. The way things are going, the IRA will have disbanded by the end of the year.

So, debate those.

horndog 2

My belief is that Sinn Fein are worrying all the Parties in the South and the North they are now the Largest Nationalist Party and have the peoples mandate up there.
There support has increased in the South and have one sitting TD, which has been played down by the Goverment and if the Election to come they may increase to two or three TD, then they will be in a strong position and weather we except them or not in future Goverments will hold the balance of power, although at presant no Parties will go into Goverment with them they have not ruled out the future.
And if your to look at the rise of Sinn Fein in the North they started increasing there support in the Council Elections and within the last 5 elections in the north have turned there support arouond.

Originally posted by Johnny 5

- See that the 'No' vote in the Nice Treaty is seen through, it isn't democracy running the vote again to try and get a different vote when the people have spoken.

Ah...
a double standard already??
I thought the idea up north was to keep voting on the NI issue untill there is a majority for a united Ireland??
And anyhow people are entitled to change there minds on an issue.
Thats the distinction between totalitarianism and democracy .
mm

ReefBreak

Originally posted by Johnny 5
For the lad up there who'd like to know a bit about Sinn Fein's election manifesto. It's viewable at sinnfein.ie.

Here are just some interesting points, people should take note before jumping to conclusions about the party.

Sinn Fein will:-

- Provide an Irish-Language university.

- See that the 'No' vote in the Nice Treaty is seen through, it isn't democracy running the vote again to try and get a different vote when the people have spoken.

- Pull the Defence Forces out of the new EU Army, which sacrifices our neutrality.

- Back the cancellation of Third World Debt.

- Seek an end to the embargo on Cuba by the US, demand a Palestinian state and an end to the embargo on Iraq.

- Build an international alliance for the closure of Sellafield, they stress this point alot.

- Stop NATO forces using our airports for refuelling.

If this is the best of Sinn Féin's manifesto, then all I can say is that Sinn Féin's manifesto is a joke. It's simply a collection of populist rhetoric and overused slogans. There is absolutely nothing of substance.

- Provide an Irish-Language university.
...Not really an issue I or most everyone else would vote for a party on. Not sure how many people would go for it. University courses are hard enough in English.

- See that the 'No' vote in the Nice Treaty is seen through, it isn't democracy running the vote again to try and get a different vote when the people have spoken.
...As Madman stated above, people change their minds. How about the people of Northern Ireland take a vote on the United Ireland issue - if it's passed that the North and South remain separate, then it should remain that way forever. The hypocrites in Sinn Féin would be up in arms. Also, almost all political parties are in agreement that to reject Nice again would be, as John Bruton said yesterday: "a disaster for Ireland." But this is a topic for another (long and boring) thread.

- Pull the Defence Forces out of the new EU Army, which sacrifices our neutrality.
...I disagree 100%. This country has benefited hugely from the EU, we have to give something back. Of course, we all know that to be part of a real army (one that doesn't plant bombs in pubs and shopping centres) would be something that the cowards in Sinn Fein/IRA would be totally against.

- Back the cancellation of Third World Debt.
Yes, very good.

- Seek an end to the embargo on Cuba by the US, demand a Palestinian state and an end to the embargo on Iraq.
...more easy sloganeering.

- Build an international alliance for the closure of Sellafield, they stress this point alot.
...As does every other party.

- Stop NATO forces using our airports for refuelling.
...I agree with helping NATO crush Al-Qaeda and the Taliban - as did the majority of Irish people in polls during that period. Why? Becasue the Irish economy has also benefited massively from US investment. Again, this is really an issue for another very long thread.

This manifesto is supposed to be radical? They've simply cut-and-pasted every trendy (il)liberal cachtphrase that happens to be fashionable this month into their election package, stood up and said: "He look at us! We're radical! We appeal to the youth of Oirland!"

..slating Sinn Féin is just too easy.

Victor

Originally posted by Johnny 5
Sinn Fein will:- - Provide an Irish-Language university.

How about supporting first and second level education and the elimination of social deprivation first?

Originally posted by Johnny 5
Sinn Fein will:- - Pull the Defence Forces out of the new EU Army, which sacrifices our neutrality.

So, no Rapid Reaction Force to respond to future Rwandas (or will we leave it to the Americans).

Originally posted by Johnny 5
Sinn Fein will:- - Back the cancellation of Third World Debt.

To bail out petty dictators, fraudsters and fat cat bankers, perhaps?

Originally posted by Johnny 5
This country needs a breath of fresh air, people argue about the links between Sinn Fein and the IRA. The way things are going, the IRA will have disbanded by the end of the year.

So is this an admission to a link? "Johnny 5" (if that is your real name), how about some new thinking and not the re-hashing of old rhetoric?

mm.ie

Martin Ferris has solved the Drug Problem in Tralee. That was the rant of a drunken idiot in the toiles of a pub the other night.

Well It is my opinion that it is easy to solve something that was not there in the first place....talk it up then talk it down.

There is NO drug problem in Tralee ffs. There is a drug problem in most of the lower socio-economic areas of Dublin but there is no way that the drug use in Tralee even comes close.

A drug problem exists when there is huge amounts of collatoral damage. Does a young fella who smokes a bit of blow at the weekend create a drug problem? Not in my opinion.

A REAL drug problem is all the collatoral damage that goes with drug use. The junkie who must rob to feed the habit, the junkie who must prostitute herself etc etc. These people are invariably addicted to coke or heroin and I can tell you, from personal knowedge that there are NO junkies in Tralee. I would venture to say that apart from the east coast there are no cronic junkies in the rest of Ireland.

So if stopping the drugs problem meant boxing the heads off a few minor dealers, then I feel the Gardai would have solved it already. So well done Mr Ferris, ya solved it in tralee, lets see you take on Ballyfermot now.

ps. Everyone is forgetting another of Sinn Fein's election pledges...the abolition of the Special Criminal Court...I wonder hy that is now

pps Sinn Fein want a 32 county Marxist state, the rest is just populist bull****

sceptre

Originally posted by mm.ie
pps Sinn Fein want a 32 county Marxist state, the rest is just populist bull****

Oddly enough they don't make a big thing of this on the manifesto. Wonder why that is now.

And that's a "32 county marxist state" by any and all means necessary. I haven't forgotten the statements at the 1983 Ard Fheis.

Bateman

Jesus! Must say, I posted the Ferris survey last week and the thread is still going. I must say something I found interesting from the SF manifesto is that they plan a green paper on Irish unity. This is very strange indeed.

As far as links to paramilitaries go, certain members of the FF leadership in the past 20 years aren't much further away than SF. The IRA is holding ceasefire at a time when the Nationalist community in Belfast is under daily attack from Loyalist mobs. and before anyone says "the Nationalist community is well able to defend itself", don't. Thats not the point.

I have mixed feelings about SF, but would probably vote for the, were I at home now. Something I would like to hear is for Adams and/or McGuinness to call for people in the Republic who have information on the Omagh bombing to come forward to the Gardaì. This makes it difficult to believe that SF regards recognition of the legitimacy of the Gardaì as anything more than a matter of expediency. However, I believe that with time, problems like this can be overcome.

cornell babe

a lot of intersting things have been sed on this thread.
sinn féin are getting in because john odonoghue tried to control ferris and as he was completely imcompetent as usual. ff were too confident and could not imagine they might lose their seat.

also its obvious irish people just dont care about what their politicians do, say or think. and of course noel o flynn will get in
and mcdaid, lowry... the list goes on which leads me to think do people care? do people listen or are my suspicions true that people just go in to their polling booths and have a good ol' game of eeny-miny-mo

ReefBreak

Yes, but whatever you say about the mainstream parties (FF, FG, Lab, PD), at least they didn't murder over 1800 people between 1969 and 1994 - unlike the organisation Martin Ferris is/was a member of.

gurramok

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
Anyone who votes for Sinn Féin is committing treason. Bertie will never allow them into government for this reason.

Then come arrest me !!
And while you are at it, arrest those joyriders who were screeching around the streets near the polling booth last night.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by gurramok


Then come arrest me !!
And while you are at it, arrest those joyriders who were screeching around the streets near the polling booth last night.

So you voted in criminals to sort out criminals did you?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

gurramok

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
So you voted in criminals to sort out criminals did you?

So am i a traitor and criminal to you then ?

Lennoxschips

Dick Spring is gone. feck feck.

Biffa Bacon

How the hell can anyone vote for candidates that owe their allegiance to an illegal subversive organisation? Do you people not love your country? The IRA and Sinn Féin should be the enemy of all Irish people, and yet these scumbags get five seats! Does it not bother you that these people are cop-killers? That they are involved in the drugs trade? That they want to destroy the Garda Síochána?

Cork

Where does Sinn Fein stand on the IRA? It is about time that the IRA were consigned to history. It has brought nothing but misery to countless Irish people. It is about time that political journalists began to question Sinn Fein. If Sinn Fein persist with their various mantras – it would not be hard to expose them.


CJH may have done wrong. His wrongs shudder into nothiness with compared to the evil of the IRA.

What did IRA violence achieve – They could have had an agreement over 30 years ago.

Lennoxschips

If you ask me, you are being a traitor to your country if you vote Fianna Fail. But that's another story altogether...

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Cork

I am a republican. I would not give Sinn Fein the time of day. People like Brid Rodgers of the SDLP are worth more to this country. I think that FF are the Republican Party. They have always stood aganist violence.

What did all this heart ache achieve over the last 30 years?

It is about time we stopped Irish political parys fund raising outside the state.

What expenses are Sinn Fein claiming from West minister?

IrishGuykokoJin

Sinn Fein, I think the problem whith many of you is that you've spent too much time watching Sky News.

Some people would think the election was a victory for Sinn Fein, but it wasn't
The FG Party provided no clear view point and no opposition to FF while the Greens and Sinn Fein did.

Sky News had broke with headlines "Former London bomber wins seat in Dublin"
"IRA gun runner wins in Kerry"

The whole thing was a sham, you'd think Sinn Fein won the election, until FF and the PDs complained about the biased broadcasting.

Now people can focus on how Sinn Fein are connected to the IRA and ... also how the DUP, Dr.Paisley, the RUC have been directly and indirectly involved in murders of journalists, teachers, layers, civil rights activists, P.Finucan, R.Nelson.....
Or they can look at how Sinn Fein and other Unionist parties have helped bring a peace process, and may have something to offer other than the RHD IRA UVF Real.IRA LVF UFF UDA.....

Cork.
I think it's about time journalists questioned every Northen party including the "RUC" on the break in that interupted the Stephens investigation and Bloddy Sunday Inquiry and Royal-Scots inquiry......
Do people remember 3 decades ago, a Catholic had NO Vote, while a Prodestant had 8 or 9. The Marches, the protests, the politics began because of civil rights.
Look I could go on but I won't bother because it odvious to some that

Margret Tatcher = A great honest Woman
Sinn Fein = IRA killers

Why bother posting?

sceptre

Originally posted by IrishGuykokoJin

Do people remember 3 decades ago, a Catholic had NO Vote, while a Prodestant had 8 or 9.

Erm, no.

Gerrymandering meant that a Catholics vote wasn't worth a damn in some places, even where as a rate payer he had a vote..

But no "Prodestant had 8 or 9"

Raskolnikov

Gerrymandering is a term that describes the deliberate rearrangement of the boundaries of congressional districts to influence the outcome of elections.

Samson

Originally posted by sceptre
Gerrymandering

http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/ggerrymandering.htm


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=%2Bgerrymander+%2Bnorthern+%2BIreland&btnG=Google+Search

mike65

Originally posted by IrishGuykokoJin
Sinn Fein, I think the problem whith many of you is that you've spent too much time watching Sky News.

Some people would think the election was a victory for Sinn Fein, but it wasn't
The FG Party provided no clear view point and no opposition to FF while the Greens and Sinn Fein did.

Sky News had broke with headlines "Former London bomber wins seat in Dublin"
"IRA gun runner wins in Kerry"

The British media are'nt interested in the fate of FG but naturally are in the fortunes of Sinn Fein after all, thier close friends spent nearly thirty years trying to kill quite a number of thier viewers/readers/listeners.

Mike.

sceptre

Originally posted by Samson


http://www.ark.ac.uk/elections/ggerrymandering.htm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=%2Bgerrymander+%2Bnorthern+%2BIreland&btnG=Google+Search

Thanks Samson - first link is a perfect example of how it works/ed

Didn't feel like poking around for a link.

Cork

Do people remember 3 decades ago, a Catholic had NO Vote, while a Prodestant had 8 or 9. The Marches, the protests, the politics began because of civil rights.

I think that change would have came without violence. I think that Sinn Fein claims they are not the IRA. Do people believe this?

CJH did wrong but this falls into insignificance to what the IRA have done.

I am a Republician & I make no apolies about it. But Sinn Fein - I would not vote for them. I would give them a vote before FG.