GAA and RTÉ set to clash?

DMC

From the Irish Times today...

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2002/0425/4292068490SP4TVSTORY_A.html

RTE and GAA set to clash

National Football League: RTE and the GAA appear on a collision course over the digital rights to broadcast matches. Whereas negotiations are believed to be under way on the matter, a prolonged stand-off could threaten domestic coverage, with big championship clashes coming up next month. At the heart of the dispute is the launch this week of RTÉ television on the Sky Digital platform.

The announcement - which the GAA say they weren't consulted about - means that viewers will be able to receive RTÉ on satellite.

GAA officials fear satellite subscribers in Britain will, by acquiring an Irish box, be in a position to watch live coverage of football and hurling matches and so undermine the GAA's overseas rights holders. RTÉ's argument is that they hold the satellite digital rights to matches - something disputed by Croke Park.

This issue was raised at the GAA's annual congress earlier this month when director general Liam Mulvihill said in his annual report: "A further complicating factor is that an RTÉ agreement with Sky Digital would enable RTÉ to broadcast our games directly to Britain, which would be in contravention of the international rights deal done with Setanta Sport. At the time of writing, the issue is being discussed and the GAA is determined to protect the agreements already entered into in good faith."

A similar row with BBC caused Croke Park to refuse admission to television cameras for last year's All-Ireland championship as long as a broadcast was being carried on digital television.

Sky Digital has signed up all Irish stations in order to compete with the cable companies in the multi-channel market and RTÉ will not be included in the British digital package, but anyone acquiring the appropriate box will be able to access the stations, including RTÉ, encrypted in the Irish package. The international rights deal is important to the GAA, as it outstrips the value of the domestic agreement with RTÉ and has raised the association's media revenue, which in the past five years has risen from just over €1 million to nearly €4.5 million.

As a result, and as indicated by Mulvihill, the deal will be protected as otherwise the international rights will fall in value.

---

I hope the GAA are not going to play hard ball with RTÉ on this one.

Charles Slane

Originally posted by DamoDMC
From the Irish Times today...
GAA officials fear satellite subscribers in Britain will, by acquiring an Irish box, be in a position to watch live coverage of football and hurling matches and so undermine the GAA's overseas rights holders

This kind of thing makes me furious !!

Just how stupid and backward-looking are the GAA. They probably don't even realise that it's not enough for UK viewers to just get an Irish box - they'd also have to have an Irish subscription as well (a much more complicated process).

The GAA seem to have an exagerated view of their own self-importance. In my opinion they've colluded with many other institutions in Ireland (including the Catholic Church) to keep this country in the dark ages, and it's high-time they got a kick up the backside that would let them know that their grip is slipping.

If they're not prepared to accept that times have changed, they should be let fade into a dim, distant and miserable memory.

seano

F**k Setanta ,the only place you can see the games is in a scuffy irish pub with little arrogant F**kers who call themselves barmen.Comeon rte and bbc ,kick ass . I have a child of 2 and donot want to have to take him to the pub to let him see real sportsmen.

DMC

Yes, they are backward looking, and the amount of boxes that cross the Irish Sea will be very, very small, in comparison with the amount of BBC carded boxes over here, because the outlay is a lot more.

Sky and RTÉ have to convince the GAA that this is not going to happen, and if it does, its going to be a very small number. The problem with the BBC was, that BBC 2 NI is widely available in the 960's across the UK, and the GAA did not want that. IIRC correctly, most of the games last summer was on BBC 1 NI, and not BBC 2, but those that were, were blocked.

There is also the problem that the output on RTÉ on Sky has to mirror exactly that of terrestrial broadcasts, as said in the licence to the BCI. If RTÉ don't fix it, enter a stand-off and allow "08" screens during GAA broadcasts, then they are in breach of the licence.

carrolls

The GAA sould be grateful that anybody wants to see their
sport in the first place.
If I was involved in the GAA, I would be pushing for it to be shown on as many platforms as possible. Not curtailing it.
This generates more interest, makes it more popular, and takes it out of the Broadcasting black hole that is Ireland.
So there!

rlogue

I laughed myself a very hollow laugh when I read this one.

Put it bluntly, the GAA are obviously going to grease Setanta's backside when they are earning big bucks from Setanta for the overseas rights.

Setanta on the other hand are perfectly happy to continue showing themselves only in pubs and clubs because this is their business model and as long as the Irish here in the UK and elsewhere accept that the only way to watch live GAA is to traipse out to a smoky pub without the kids then it'll continue as it is.

SRB

Hold on this isn't the GAA's fault.... you can't sell something as exclusive and then have someone else show it !!!!. The GAA sat rights don't belong to RTE, they may end up delayling matches by 1/2 an hour on Sat, that then would be classed as a "second run" showing....

HighburyHigh

Yet again, another example of the GAA's inflated sense of self-importance. They should be delighted to get their parochial games on as many platforms as possible.

Personally it would not matter to me if GAA was never shown again. Missing the Premiership, Champions League and World Cup would be a far more serious matter...

The GAA do make my blood Boil:mad:
After all the millions they got from the taxpayer and they won't let soccer in:mad:
At the time of the vote a few weeks back I watched in amazement at a County board official being on Primetime saying he feared that Soccer would compete with and take supporters away from GAA after all the hard work their supporters put into it.

Come on now! What a load of Rubbish-you would think it's the moonies and not a sporting organisation-control the minds and all that:mad:

I support the Gaelic games and like many that do,I will be hooked to the World Cup.
How many MU and indeed ABMU fans out there are also GAA players/supporters locally? thousands upon top of thousands.

The Grey haired minds that control the GAA should get a life:mad:
mm

Lennoxschips

It's no wonder that the GAA make money off of Setanta sport, seeing as Setanta charge up to 400 Euros per match.

Of course bar owners all over the UK and Europe are going to be getting Irish sky subscriptions, 19 Euros a month for the basic package including RTE is a lot cheaper than 400 Euros per match with Setanta. Getting a subscription that runs in another country has not been a problem in the past, as the thousands of pubs in Europe with UK Sky Sports subscriptions already prove.

If Setanta want to stay competitive then I suggest that they offer decent prices, so that induviduals can afford it as well. As somebody else already suggested, nobody likes to be forced to go to a smoky pub just to watch a match.

To be honest I think Setanta's business model is outdated and it should be forced down the Tara Road and RTÉ should be on Sky in GB.
And if the GAA want more money for that-then let it be an extra sub in GB.
But it seems the old addage money=power=greed extends to the GAA aswell.
mm

CHRISTYG

As a non-GAA fan (born in the wrong "community" if you know what I mean-Lord, I hate that term!!) I still say let all those who enjoy these games enjoy them, be they in GB, NI, or ROI!!!!

seano

well said christy,btw if you had R for sirname you could of been christy ring///the best hurler ever
Up the Gaa

CHRISTYG

Although I said I'd no interest (which is the truth) I do know who Christy Ring is, because, years ago, when I was with my family on holiday in Co. Cork, I went to a pub quiz, and for one of the questions Christy Ring was the answer, and I pulled out of heaven knows where, and won 50 (old) punts for it!!!


BTW- Is Christy Ring still alive, and if not, approximately when did he die?

Tony

I think Setanta will be dead in the water if GAA goes on RTE digital, we all know what pub owners are like, there will be a proliferation of RTE cards finding their way across the water. Just think of the amount that show premiership here from cards acquired elsewhere. The GAA should be grateful that the games are shown to a wider audience and realise the benefits to sponsors, advertisers etc.

My two cents (euro cents that is)

seano

sorry about this but christy accepts no pm

ChristyR died 1979 <correct me if i am wrong>

SRB

The problem with taking out Irish subs and taking the boxes abroad is that the Sky boxes can in theory, be made to phone out before authorising an event - thus if it's an Ireland Only number, then the box won't allow the event to be shown. There's a lot more to the Sky system than meets the eye.....

Tony

Originally posted by SRB
The problem with taking out Irish subs and taking the boxes abroad is that the Sky boxes can in theory, be made to phone out before authorising an event - thus if it's an Ireland Only number, then the box won't allow the event to be shown. There's a lot more to the Sky system than meets the eye.....

It wont need to authorise an event, this is RTE we are talking about not pay per view. There are already hundreds of Irish boxes working happily across the Uk and the mainland.


Regards Tony

Originally posted by SRB
The problem with taking out Irish subs and taking the boxes abroad is that the Sky boxes can in theory, be made to phone out before authorising an event - thus if it's an Ireland Only number, then the box won't allow the event to be shown. There's a lot more to the Sky system than meets the eye.....

That wouldn't apply to RTÉ just to Box office events.
There would only be a problem if phone homes became mandatory,ie if Sky switched off in the event of a failed phone home.
In which case the Sky lines would be jammed with all the people ringing in to say they had lost their channels(because they hadn't the phonelines connected) and anyhow if the sub is more than 12 mths then phone line is not mandatory.
mm

SRB

Yes, but if for rights issues, RTE has to ensure that the boxes are only used within Ireland they could be forced to make each sporting event a dial up event. It wouldn't mean they would charge, just that the box would have to dial out. I know loads of boxes are working outside their legal territories, but it's really only because they are allowed to. It could be clamped down upon very easily. Like I said what the boxes can do and do do are not always one in the same !
Sky, by the way, can change the terms and conditions of your contract if and when they want to.

chernobyl

Sky have English/Irish serial numbers in each STB its just a matter of time before they enforce a "no pair" between opposing serial numbers and viewing cards.

Tony

Originally posted by SRB
Yes, but if for rights issues, RTE has to ensure that the boxes are only used within Ireland they could be forced to make each sporting event a dial up event. It wouldn't mean they would charge, just that the box would have to dial out. I know loads of boxes are working outside their legal territories, but it's really only because they are allowed to. It could be clamped down upon very easily. Like I said what the boxes can do and do do are not always one in the same !
Sky, by the way, can change the terms and conditions of your contract if and when they want to.

Sky like any organisataion can only change a condition of contract by giving written notice. RTE's obligation would not mean it would have to make every event dial up no more than any other broadcaster is obliged to do. If that were the case every copyright event would need to be dial up and clearly this has not, and i doubt ever will be the case.

Regards Tony

SRB

Well, yes of course they let you know and then I suppose everyone could of course cancel their subs because they wouldn't like the changes made to the contract.
(Sky PLUS users with a second box have to keep all boxes connected to a phone line)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If that were the case every copyright event would need to be dial up and clearly this has not, and i doubt ever will be the case.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I don't think this unique situation has actually arisen before - IE that one country has stated "No, we won't have a digital sat platform" and thereby has allowed a neighbouring one to buy up the sat rights and run a branch of their business within a neighbouring one. I 'm sure it will be resolved, the problem is it may take a long time.
Anyone remember when Nord 3 launched on sat ? Large chunks of programming were missing on sat because they didn't hold the rights for all progs throughout Germany, it took quite a while, well over a year, to sort that out.
If the UK channels and RTE could come to a mutal agreement it would be great, the problem though is they're all commercial broadcasters and all fighting for the same viewers....(well in the North anyway as CH4 and 5 for some reason don't seem to care about Ireland - possibly rights costs again.)

Originally posted by SRB
Sky, by the way, can change the terms and conditions of your contract if and when they want to.

If they made phone connections mandatory for their subscription packages even though I own my digibox-I would leave them.
I suspect a lot of customers in digitally enabled NTL areas would also.
An Irish DTT system would have no conflict with rights owners as for the most part it would not be watched outside this island.
mm

chernobyl

You own the Hardware MM but you rent the software and it would just be Sky taking the logical step of looking after thier interests.

Mossy Monk

why am i not surprised by this. the GAA really do need to come out of the dark ages :mad: :mad: :mad:

SRB

Well I wouldn't like to be waiting on DTT in Ireland....and I suspect Sky know this. A Skybox is only as good as the software in it allows it to be.
(Even Tony has to agree here !)

Tony

Originally posted by SRB
Well I wouldn't like to be waiting on DTT in Ireland....and I suspect Sky know this. A Skybox is only as good as the software in it allows it to be.
(Even Tony has to agree here !)

I'm sorry I'm not sure I understand your point, could you re state or elaborate please?

Regards Tony

carrolls

Originally posted by SRB

The problem with taking out Irish subs and taking the boxes abroad is that the Sky boxes can in theory, be made to phone out before authorising an event - thus if it's an Ireland Only number, then the box won't allow the event to be shown. There's a lot more to the Sky system than meets the eye.....

100,000 freephone calls to Sky headquarters (Sky has to pay for these calls) before an All Ireland Match all at the same time.
I don't think this has the least remote possibility of happening.
The digibox phone out is only practical for 3 functions.
Buying PPV events, Interactive functionality and EMail.
It is not practical for any other functionality like the above mentioned idea from SRB.

SRB

Tony, all I meant was that the DTT platform might take a little longer to get off the ground than was hoped.

SRB

100,000 freephone calls to Sky headquarters (Sky has to pay for these calls) before an All Ireland Match all at the same time.
I don't think this has the least remote possibility of happening.
The digibox phone out is only practical for 3 functions.
Buying PPV events, Interactive functionality and EMail.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sky could write to all subscribers in Ireland and say, it's now part and parcel of your contract with us to keep your 'phone line connected to the box, subscribers could then say No, sorry want to cancel or they could shrug shoulders and agree.

The boxes wouldn't have to make the calls all at once, it could be done randomly at various times thoughout the month (or throughout an event being shown) to an ROI number - if it connects the box is in ROI, if not then you find a message saying phone Sky on screen.


Please, don't all think I'm saying this will happen I'm just saying it is technically possible to do it !!! Going by the number of boxes abroad which show Sky Sports I doubt Sky care where the box is as long as the sub is being paid.

Tony

Originally posted by SRB
Tony, all I meant was that the DTT platform might take a little longer to get off the ground than was hoped.

Agreed, in fact the guys I talk to in RTE seem to think it's dead in the water at this point unless a private operator takes up the slack.

Regards Tony

Tony

Originally posted by SRB
I doubt Sky care where the box is as long as the sub is being paid.

This is very true, they have a large number of subscribers in Spain which they know about but are happy to keep.

Regards Tony

SRB

I guess business is business at the end of the day !
Tony, apologies if this is slightly off topic, does the whole rights issue impact on you as a dealer too ?
I mean could you approach Canal+ and ask about selling their services or would you get a sorry not allowed reply ?

Tony

Originally posted by SRB
I guess business is business at the end of the day !
Tony, apologies if this is slightly off topic, does the whole rights issue impact on you as a dealer too ?
I mean could you approach Canal+ and ask about selling their services or would you get a sorry not allowed reply ?

We would definitely get "not allowed" although I have fitted systems where the customer provided their own card from home, all the broadcasters know this goes on and turn a blind eye, after all it's more revenue.

Regards Tony

SRB

I still hope that maybe one day we'll be able to buy whatever package we want from whatever broadcaster we want to watch, after all at the end of the day, so long as your subs legal, the rights money is all going to the same place. It'd be sensible for RTE to charge a small sub to UK viewers and use the income to pay for rights clearence, then even the GAA could have a cut !

BostonStrangler

Interestingly I see this as a potential for Setanta to make money. I can see them doing in the UK & mainland Europe what they do here in the States with the Premiership & to a small extent the GAA games. As well as having the live rights here in the US to the Prem & GAA they also put them on DSat, here in the US that's DirecTV & Dish Network. So these can also seen in pubs for $20 entry, that gives u a day's viewing in the pub if there is more than 1 game, or $20 per game on DSat.

So for folks in Britain & to a lesser extent others on mainland europe that have a sky sub, setanta could do worse than to put those games on PPV. HOwever of course if some folks in UK can hold of an Irish card then they are set, but dont be surprised if Setanta look that route. I would have no idea if the GAA, have an issue with that. Setanta have the non Irish rights so thay could do with them whatever they please.

chernobyl

The GAA have absolutely no rights to stop RTE broadcasting their games on Satellite and RTE should grow some [pun] ball$ and play hard [pun] ball with them and completely refuse to show any GAA at all on any platform.

It is up to Sky to finally not allow Irish viewing cards to be paired with an English STB and to force activations on "STB request" and no Multicast activations anymore.

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by chernobyl
RTE should grow some [pun] ball$ and play hard [pun] ball with them and completely refuse to show any GAA at all on any platform

here here. what i cannot understand is this. a license fee is payed in my household every year without fail. all i and the others living here want is the chance to watch Gaelic Games without interruption and a perfect picture. what is wrong with that. NOTHING. if the GAA block the coverage this Sunday they can go **** themselves because i for one will not be bothered with that backwards organisation

Originally posted by Mossy Monk
here here. what i cannot understand is this. a license fee is payed in my household every year without fail. all i and the others living here want is the chance to watch Gaelic Games without interruption and a perfect picture. what is wrong with that. NOTHING. if the GAA block the coverage this Sunday they can go **** themselves because i for one will not be bothered with that backwards organisation

Only problem with that is they are scared sh*tless that TV3 will get the rights.
The Govt. will not allow Sky to make GAA exclusively satelite.
mm

byte

I noticed yesterday that the 4 terrestrials will work in any digibox without the need to pair it to the box. Unlike the premium channels and BBCs;)

now for the next trick.
If you cancel your sky sub will they work in an unpaired box ie is this FTV carding by default??
Anyone prepared to run the experiment??
Crucial info for people in GB.
mm

Mossy Monk

looking at the EPG and TG4 is off the air when the GAA is on :mad: :mad:

Who owns TG4-RTÉ or the Govt.?
Do they not have the same license to be on d-sat from the BCI as RTÉ ie same programming on D-sat as terrestial.
If so they are already in contravention of their BCI license
And for that matter so are RTÉ if they also block GAA.
mm

DMC

Originally posted by madman
Only problem with that is they are scared sh*tless that TV3 will get the rights.

TV3 are not in a position to cover live domestic sport in any shape, so that for the time being is a non-runner.

Anyway, TV3 is on satellite now, so the problem still remains. They are contavening the licence, as TG4 showed today.

Damo,
I suspect Granada otr Canwest might stump up, if they thought it was worth it.
But the TG4 breaking of the BCI rules is interesting isn't it?
Wonder will they do anything about it:rolleyes:
Perhaps they will argue that they had a blank screen on D sat and not a different programme-so it doesn't apply...
Thats breaking the spirit of the thing:mad:
mm

SRB

If they don't have the rights to show programmes it doesn't matter what agreement they have between the BCI and themselves, it's out of their hands. I suspect the BCI will be understanding in this respect, especially as all parties are "in talks" to try and come to some kind of agreement.

DMC

Live Outside Broadcasts would be a huge logistical hurdle for TV3. They would effectivly have to import OB vechicles to cover GAA, as one of the plans mentioned recently by RTÉ, selling off the OB facilities, hasn't happened yet. BBC NI have OB facilites, but they already use them on GAA match days.
RTÉ is fine, because it already owns a few OB vans and equipment, so this cost is not really an issue for them, but it would for TV3.

jez

In reference to the RTE/Sky GAA blocking. Now that it is clear matches will not be broadcast,surely the Sky advertising should refer to this as the majority of customers getting Sky will be people in poor terrestrial coverage area and will want SKy to watch the GAA matches in crystal clear vision. Imagine the disappointment sitting down on a Sunday after dinner to watch the Connact final and all you get is a blank screen.No,Sky will have to refer to this problem.

SRB

But it isn't Sky's problem, it's a bit like Sky owning a shop window and RTE coming along and renting space in the window, but then discovering they can't sell some of the products they wanted to because someone else in the window is already selling them.
That's a problem between the vendors, not the shop window owner....

DMC

You are right, its not Sky's probelm, but I feel that Sky will be involved with RTÉ, in explaining the position to the GAA.