Top ten Arguments for Gods non-existence

Thomas from Presence

I know this is a hot topic already but the debate is a little wayward. Just out of academic interest what do believers and non believers think is the atheist's strongist argument for the non existent for the Judaeo-Christian omnipotent all loving God.

JustHalf

No argument against God's existence can be made that proves that God doesn't exist.

It's unprovable, so don't try.

Let God prove whether or not God exists. Otherwise, believe what you believe is true.

Btw, GOD RULES!

mike65

The existence of this thread is proof enough!

Mike.

GreenHell

You forgot, "Because I am god, why would I choose to believe in any other, that would just be counter productive"

Wolf

Lets face it God is a great idea and if we all were to follow the ideas the God has liad down then the world would generaly be a better place for all.

Also, reguardless of if he exists or not if you lead a good life and he doesnt exist then so what you were a good person. However, if you lead a life been a shoit head AND he does exist then you are well and truly screwed.

Which ultimaly brings me to the point that while God is a good idea RELIGION SUCKS ASS. Religion has caused more wars, racial hatred etc and for what? Most of the time it things that God never even impiled that the various churchs teach us.

Pure and simple God oe no God just be nice to each other and life will be much nicer.

The Corinthian

I take it that this thread is 'God, Reality or Myth lite'?

Saruman

Thats right Corinthian, too much to read on the other one so a smaller version was in order it looks like.. hmm no Atari Jaguar option in the poll.. could at least have done with an All of the above!

azezil

like JustHalf said there's no way to prove it either way so i keep my judgement to myself.

But i am sooo glad noone voted for

The existence of evil and/or the occurrence of natural disasters shows that an all loving God is not existant

... that's the most stupid excuse i ever hear ppl splurt.

Anyone who votes for that will be ravaged by that rancid hamster they call 'amp', you have been warned!!

Excelsior

You can't prove that something doesn't exist.
That makes absolutely no sense.

Saruman

Of course you can prove that something does not exist.. you cant however prove that God does not exist. You can prove that a certain scientific theory does not exist or a certain particle etc.. but God is something you are told you can not see or hear or touch or feel yet is omnipresent... go figure!

freemasons

eh, i think there myght be something wrong with my internet browser. i cant seem to see the 10 argumants, only 5 of them are there.

could osmeone please tell them for me.

personally i think that the best argumant for god being ther is that he sent jesus to tell us. jesus died, and then was alive again. how could that ahppan if god diddnt exit.

koneko

Originally posted by freemasons
personally i think that the best argumant for god being ther is that he sent jesus to tell us. jesus died, and then was alive again. how could that ahppan if god diddnt exit.

Is that a joke? Or are you serious?

Bwaahahahaha.

freemasons

Originally posted by koneko


Is that a joke? Or are you serious?

Bwaahahahaha.

????????

what do you maen???

Saruman

RTOTFL Koneko!

oh freemasons.. i see your point i can see only 6 of the supposed top 10! hmmmm....................

koneko

Glad u got a chuckle out of it saruman, "freemasons" obviously didn't.

I don't consider "Jesus coming here to tell us all about God" proof of God's existance. I see this as

a) fiction. There was no Jesus, he's a story, he's not the "son of God". It's all a big fairytale.
b) There was a Jesus, but he was just some cook who rambled on about some mystical being called "God". He was a crazy. A loon.

How in any way does this prove God exists? I'm not saying I can disprove his existance (if something doesn't exist, how can you possibly prove this), but how can you say that "a story" proves that God exists? Did you even think about it, or is this just what was hammered into you as a child?

Oh yeah, I heard a priest once say God exists. That's enough proof for me!
Doesn't make sense.

Keeks

If this is a Top Ten, Why are there only six options?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by koneko
a) fiction. There was no Jesus, he's a story, he's not the "son of God". It's all a big fairytale.
b) There was a Jesus, but he was just some cook who rambled on about some mystical being called "God". He was a crazy. A loon.

c) Jesus did exist, but never actually rambled on about some mystical being called "God" (execpt in private to his lieutenants - wink, wink) and eventually died. When his aforementioned lieutenants, who found they were suddenly unemployed and without their meal ticket, invented all this son of God stuff, and continued freeloading their way around Judea. Long after his death, Jesus's life was recorded by a new generation who never actually met him; the story became embellished, rewritten, interpreted, censored and eventually became the state religion of the Roman Empire for political reasons.

d) It's all true. Honest.

freemasons

Originally posted by koneko
Glad u got a chuckle out of it saruman, "freemasons" obviously didn't.

I don't consider "Jesus coming here to tell us all about God" proof of God's existance. I see this as

a) fiction. There was no Jesus, he's a story, he's not the "son of God". It's all a big fairytale.
b) There was a Jesus, but he was just some cook who rambled on about some mystical being called "God". He was a crazy. A loon.

How in any way does this prove God exists? I'm not saying I can disprove his existance (if something doesn't exist, how can you possibly prove this), but how can you say that "a story" proves that God exists? Did you even think about it, or is this just what was hammered into you as a child?

Oh yeah, I heard a priest once say God exists. That's enough proof for me!
Doesn't make sense.

yeah, well in school i was told that there was proof that jesus and zaccaeus were real, and that jesus really did do the things he is said to heva done.

koneko

" (execpt in private to his lieutenants - wink, wink)

Hehe.

Point b it is then

Freemasons, how exactly does the existance of Jesus prove that God exists, please... tell us...
And please don't say "because they told me in school"....

The Corinthian

Originally posted by koneko
Point b it is then

Actually my point was that he may not have said it, but that his lieutenants said that he did after his death. He may have actually just been a really nice guy (which is more or less what the Muslims believe) and was reinvented post mortem.

freemasons

Originally posted by koneko


Hehe.

Point b it is then

Freemasons, how exactly does the existance of Jesus prove that God exists, please... tell us...
And please don't say "because they told me in school"....

well how else could jesus have done what he did if god was not his dad.

and how would he have turned the wine into water.

jesus done loads of magic stuff. how do you explain any of that. explain to me how he partied the red sea.

pat kenny

He was a real chap the romans did have records about him and they did crusify the poor ba$tard.But he may have just been a nut , but by the sounds of it he was a happy nut an he made other people happy(even if he was talking a load of bollix).
And it made him pretty famous lets see if people are still talking about Tom cruise in 2000years time.



Book your place in the history books ,talk bollix and get cruisifed.
Its that easy

The Corinthian

Originally posted by freemasons
well how else could jesus have done what he did if god was not his dad.

and how would he have turned the wine into water.

jesus done loads of magic stuff. how do you explain any of that. explain to me how he partied the red sea.

You have to be a parody, or very, very young

freemasons

Originally posted by pat kenny
He was a real chap the romans did have records about him and they did crusify the poor ba$tard.But he may have just been a nut , but by the sounds of it he was a happy nut an he made other people happy(even if he was talking a load of bollix).
And it made him pretty famous lets see if people are still talking about Tom cruise in 2000years time.



Book your place in the history books ,talk bollix and get cruisifed.
Its that easy

yeah. but has Tom Cruise healed any modern blind lazarusess

freemasons

Originally posted by The Corinthian

You have to be a parody, or very, very young

???

how old are you then?

koneko

Originally posted by The Corinthian

Actually my point was that he may not have said it, but that his lieutenants said that he did after his death. He may have actually just been a really nice guy (which is more or less what the Muslims believe) and was reinvented post mortem.

Got that, yup. My main problem is how the fact that Jesus existed can be used as evidence that God exists? That makes no sense whatsoever.

koneko

I agree with Corinthian though, just didn't want to say this, but freemasons either sounds like a great big troll (a very bad one at that), or some little kid.

Freemasons, is Paul Daniels God? He must be, I mean, he made his little assistant disappear. What about David Copperfield? I mean, he made huge buildings disappear, what about that?

The Corinthian

Originally posted by freemasons
how old are you then?

That's my business - Probably old enough to be your father (this is not an admission, btw :rolleyes: ).

Given I'm posting, I should point out:

* Jesus didn't part the Red Sea - That was Moses.

* Lazarus was not blind, he was dead.

That's why I think you're a parody, your mistakes are quite comical, the (kind) alternative is the blissful ignorance of youth.

freemasons

Originally posted by koneko
I agree with Corinthian though, just didn't want to say this, but freemasons either sounds like a great big troll (a very bad one at that), or some little kid.

Freemasons, is Paul Daniels God? He must be, I mean, he made his little assistant disappear. What about David Copperfield? I mean, he made huge buildings disappear, what about that?

just becase i dont have a smarty college degree dont make me a little kid.

i studied all this for religion before my junir cert.

who's paul dnaiels? i know david copperfiled married claudia schiffer. is paul daniels a magician like him? if he can make someone disappear he is probably good at tricking people, or a good magician. but i'm sure he's not god. he didnt rise from the dead.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by koneko
What about David Copperfield? I mean, he made huge buildings disappear, what about that?

He's married to Claudia Schiffer, so that's close enough to proof of his divinity for me

Saruman

Koneko gets another laugh from Saruman!

freemasons =

azezil

Originally posted by The Corinthian
* Jesus didn't part the Red Sea - That was Moses.

Moses was able to do it because teh power of god was working tru him. And since the father, son and holy spirit are the one being one could say that Jesus did part the waters

bonkey

Originally posted by freemasons
if he can make someone disappear he is probably good at tricking people, or a good magician. but i'm sure he's not god. he didnt rise from the dead.

Ooh. OOOOh.

Me sir, me sir. Pick me sir. I know this one.....

Maybe Jesus' death was (gasp) faked, and he was...ummm...how shall I put this...."good at tricking people".

You have no proof he died from cruxifiction - you are simply believing the story you were told. Similarly, you believe in God because you have been told God is real - you have no proof.

As for not knowing who Paul Daniels is.....well, that more or less puts an upper limit on your age

jc

The Corinthian

Originally posted by bonkey
As for not knowing who Paul Daniels is.....well, that more or less puts an upper limit on your age

Or Nationality.

Or he's repressed his memory of Paul Daniels - I know I would if I could...

Rabies

it is impossible to prove if god exists or doesnt exist.

people believe what they want or sometimes what they are told to believe.

personaly i dont believe in religion/god/devine intervention etc

what if the Catholic church is wrong and there is no God but Buddha exists or Zesus is the "God" of this world.....

What would happen to the Catholic church's teaching then, "There is only one God" (or something like that)... their teaching would be thrown out the window....

He's married to Claudia Schiffer, so that's close enough to proof of his divinity for me

good one

who's paul dnaiels? i know david copperfiled married claudia schiffer. is paul daniels a magician like him?

little bit off topic, but:

how old are you freemasons
are you trying to tell me that you never heard of Paul Daniels:(
are you taking the p|ss

koneko

Originally posted by The Corinthian

Or Nationality.

Nah, I'm foreign, I still know who he is

Or he's repressed his memory of Paul Daniels - I know I would if I could...

Not possible. I've tried. Believe me.

Come on freemasons answer the question {deleted}
(.didn't mean anything harsh by muppet boy, it's a term of affection )


BTW saruman did you just join my fanclub? Or do I amuse you today?
What, you think I'm funny? Like a clown? What, am I here to amuse you?

[/joe pesci]

Bonkey makes a good point though. People believe what they're told to believe (it's harder to actually think about things, makes your head hurt). What if Jesus was just a magician? Or just some guy, that people made up stories about
This is all so reminding me of Life Of Brian.

freemasons

i dont know what you are all so obssessed with how old i am. if you really want to know i'm 15 if its so important to you.

i really dont like being called names just becuse i dont know some things that you know.

i thouhgt you were nice people here. now i no better:(

koneko

We are nice. But when you get involved in a serious debate, and make a comment, you're usually expected to back it up with something.

Welcome to the boards
You'll enjoy your time here, it will also prepare you for the real world where people aren't smiley all the time.

Don't believe everything you're told in school, read up on things, form your own opinions. You'll be glad in the end.

:cool:

aaanyways, back on topic. Where are the other 6 options, Thomas from Presence?

Rabies

Originally posted by freemasons
i dont know what you are all so obssessed with how old i am. if you really want to know i'm 15 if its so important to you.

i really dont like being called names just becuse i dont know some things that you know.

i thouhgt you were nice people here. now i no better:(

we are nice people ...... ha ha ha (evil laugh)

well if you are just 15, dont you think that a topic like this might be a little over your head..

i'm not saying you shouldnt be here. every opinion is a valid opinion (as long as it is not bullsh|t).

Come on freemasons answer the question muppet boy.

i dont think koneko ment anything harsh by that

Rabies

Originally posted by koneko
aaanyways, back on topic. Where are the other 6 options, Thomas from Presence?

i think that is why this thread was started. we are supposed to start debating and the rest of the options will come from everyone elses ideas and views

Drazhar

well lets see, if god is everywhere, then obviously he has net connection, now i wonder if he has to put up with crappy Eircom connection, or sweet e1 connection, mmmmmm e1 connection, divine!!!

now on a bit of a serious note, i dont believe in a god, well not as some all powerfull divine being anyway. And to be honest, the Bible, it's a work of fiction, and if it was published today, it would be thrown out of all book shops, i mean the bloody thing is so inconsistent, one minute they're stoning everything in sight, next a spot of rain to cleanse the world, then test a few people by knocking the ****e outta them for a few hundred years, loose your followers in a desert, then wisemen are following stars/commets, then love thy neighbour, and then only the chosen who follow without question are going to heaven, everyone else, if they believe in a god or not is destined for Hell.
Bollocks.

Christians got together around the 3rd centurary, got pissed and thought this would be a great idea to make some money. If you ask me, Organised religio is the source of all the worlds problems, the bible especially. Stoning a woman just because she accidently touches a man's penis, and that man isnt her husband, **** off, i'll believe what i want, not what you want me to believe (oh and that bit about the stonin is in there, the book of Judges or Law or one of those Old Testament ones)

Saruman

Originally posted by freemasons
i dont know what you are all so obssessed with how old i am. if you really want to know i'm 15 if its so important to you.

i really dont like being called names just becuse i dont know some things that you know.

i thouhgt you were nice people here. now i no better:(

Yeah we are nice people.. dont let the EVIL wizard nick name fool you!! mwuhahaha

Anyway as has been said just be prepared to back up comments in the future OR admit you cant and your probably wrong..

btw Koneko no im not starting a fan club... you just said some funny things in that post im i seem to be easily amused today.. bored in work and all!

koneko

Originally posted by Saruman
btw Koneko no im not starting a fan club... you just said some funny things in that post im i seem to be easily amused today.. bored in work and all!

ah damn!

The Bible Quiz is funny, very insightful too

bonkey

I find it interesting that so many people have assumed that "god" means "the Christian divinity".

freemason - the age comments were meant somewhat in jest, but your reasoning is (to be honest) somewhat simplistic - its true because thats what you were taught in school.

For anyone who hasnt read it, The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail is an interesting read about an alternate possibility of what really happened (amongst other things). It posits that the crucifiction was indeed staged, that Christ was married, had children, etc. etc.

I'm not saying its right, but it does give a very interesting insight into other possibilities.....

As for the "learned it in school" thing rubbing people up the wrong way....I guess we've just learned over time that much of what you get taught in school is rarely the whole truth, and sometimes not the truth at all.

jc

Stephen

I know this is a hot topic already but the debate is a little wayward. Just out of academic interest what do believers and non believers think is the atheist's strongist argument for the non existent for the Judaeo-Christian omnipotent all loving God.

azezil

Originally posted by bonkey
As for the "learned it in school" thing rubbing people up the wrong way....I guess we've just learned over time that much of what you get taught in school is rarely the whole truth, and sometimes not the truth at all.

By gum thats brilliant, next time i take an exam i'll say that they're wrong and make up my own answers!

Thomas from Presence

Clain wins Tom's Most Intelligent Poster award for 2002 for analytic objectivity and not blinding him/herself with emotive ravings.

However the psychological argument assumes that God is not in existence. It can equally be turned around to explain atheism in terms of psychology.

JustHalf

Originally posted by The Corinthian

Actually my point was that he may not have said it, but that his lieutenants said that he did after his death. He may have actually just been a really nice guy (which is more or less what the Muslims believe) and was reinvented post mortem.

Well then Muslims are stupid, because he must have been either a loon or the Son of God, because only loons go around claiming to be the Son of God if they aren't one.

That's if they're using the Bible as a base of reference, obviously. I have not read much of the Q'oran.

Middle-eastern Islam is a joke at the moment, with all the hatred of Jews and Christians going round which they excuse with their religion when it actually says in the book that Jews and Christians are brothers.

JustHalf

Originally posted by Drazhar
And to be honest, the Bible, it's a work of fiction, and if it was published today, it would be thrown out of all book shops

It is published today. And it is not (usually) thrown out of book shops.

JustHalf

I have a feeling freemasons is an oldschooler, somehow.

Excelsior

It is logically impossible to disprove the existence of anything. Any thing.

You can do all the work in the world.
And I can simply say, you have not looked hard enough.