Eircom ISDN - worth it?

padjo

Does anyone know if the eircom hispeed idsn offer is really worth it. And before I get a load of people just spoutin on about how sh** eircom are, Ill reply and say I dont care if they are sh**, I just need to know a little bit about this service from people who have it / used it / know summink about it.

Basically, I need something more reliable than 56k dial up connection. As far as I know, hispeed is 64k or 128k with two channels, therefore double charges. Ive read all the docs from eircom on it but is it okay? Is the difference between dialup and isdn (64k / 1 channel) (cause thats what ill probably use the most, not 128k [im broke!]) noticable? Etc., I think you know what I mean. Dont want to spend money on this if its gonna be practically the same This seems to be the only other option in this country now that no limits i smoke. And I cant wait 6 months for asdl, btw. Ill upgrade when that comes but I need something better in the next month or so.

Any help would be really appreciated

Thanks guys

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I charge what I charge because you cant do what I do with a spare weekend and a copy of frontpage express - Web Developers motto

TwoShedsJackson

Well a single 64 digital channel is a big improvement on 56k dialup - ping in games should be under 100 to decent servers here or UK, no phone jacking unless the line goes completely, which only happened to me about twice in two years of using and ISDN line.

Download speed should be 7-8k a second which cuts about 30-40% off download times and you can just stick the other channel on offpeak, file downloads in half the time for twice the cost = same cost as downloading it on 64k.

If you're going to be using a 56k dialup anyway and spending money on calls then definitely get the HiSpeed installed.

Joe22

it all depends
two lines and snl is better imo,
but i cant really comment as i havent gotthen it in

Yeah its worth it.I got it for playing quake.My ping in quake before it was about 170,with terrible PL and terrible lag.That was on a 56k modem.I got the high speed and now i have no lag no PL and a ping of 27 on irish server's !

padjo

Thanks Castor_Troy. Thats exactly what I needed to know Do you know what the delay is like with installation?

padjo

I was thinkin of gettin a second pstn line and just goin on no limits, but thats off now. Since isdn is only a few quid more a month it doesnt seem so bad. Im just a little sceptical because its unusual for an internet access deal to be so clear-cut and 'normal' (i.e. slightly attractive to the end-user) in this country

yossarin

i have it, in a word: no not for me.

If you can get an isp that will take you & not just plug you into one of their 56k feeds (i use oceanfree + when i ran a bandwidth test i scored 56k on my alledged 128k connection) then thats fine. If you're going to do it seriously then you'll need to pay for an isp on top of what eircom will be charging you for the line + your phone bills.

admittedly it is a bit faster - it takes me about 2/3 seconds to get online + the extra phone lines are nifty, but its nto really worth it unles you have heavy web usage.

imho, a stopgap measure at best

padjo

Oh okay. Well, I presume eircom.net supports 64k and 128k isdn, seeing as theyre offering the product!? Thats what I use mostly to dial up cause oceanfree is quite unreliable in my area for some reason.

Checked eircom's site and theyre sparse on whether eircom.net supports 128k / 64k isdn. Even in their hispeed leaflet they dont mention anything other than to subscribe to an isp that supports isdn.

Which isp's support 64k / 128k isdn?

[This message has been edited by padjo (edited 10-05-2001).]

yossarin

in your area !

how much is the eircom.net isp ? I'd love to hear more...I'm stuck with the isdn (don't ask)

padjo

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by yossarin:

how much is the eircom.net isp ? I'd love to hear more...I'm stuck with the isdn (don't ask)

</font>

Eircom.net is completely free...! Just set up a new connection and slap in the number 01-2171101 (if your in dublin of course, all the local numbers are on their site) and dont enter a username and password as they dont use auth (you can enter a username/pass but it wont matter). Bingo...

TwoShedsJackson

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by padjo:
Thanks Castor_Troy. Thats exactly what I needed to know Do you know what the delay is like with installation?</font>

My boss ordered it last week and it was put in today - so about a week if you're in Dublin and they don't have much work on btw, telling them it's for business like ringing an office network and stuff may encourage them to sort it out a bit faster.

arrr, it was two months in my day...

yossarin

cheers, i didn't know that. hopefully they'll support 64/128

shout back when you get the box. They install like the corporation - slow but determined.

edit: on yeah you need a teminal to go between your computer and the wall + eircom dont supply it (they just run a wire to a isdn point on the wall). I saw a nifty isdn terminal that had a 4 port hub built into it. i can't remember the name of it but it was seriously cool

[This message has been edited by yossarin (edited 10-05-2001).]

TwoShedsJackson

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joe22:
it all depends
two lines and snl is better imo,
but i cant really comment as i havent gotthen it in</font>

You seem to be a great one for that Joe22, as per the USB memory sticks thread - if you can't comment or have nothing to add to the thread then why don't you stop posting $hite?

padjo

Hehe!

Well, thanks everyone. I think Ill order it after all

Would love to know if anyone knows which isp's support isdn fully (64k/128k)

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I charge what I charge because you cant do what I do with a spare weekend and a copy of frontpage express - Web Developers motto

dahamsta

See the IIU website for details of ISP's:

http://iiu.taint.org

I use UTV Internet mostly at the moment, and I find them pretty reliable. Oceanfee is ISDN ready too, but I refuse to use it because of Esat's mishandling (effin manhandling more like) of the SNL situation.

UTV supports 128k, although you need to use it wisely, or the bill will skyrocket. I've heard that Unison support 128k too, but I never got it to work. Never really tried though, cos I'm not keen on supporting Tony O'Reilly either.

It's hard to know who to support these days.

Gerry

I think isdn is pretty damn good, I get pings of 40-50 in quakeworld, 50-80 on a good day in q3, similar in cs. Download rates are always 7-8k, usually 7.5k, and the connection is reliable.

quozl

ISDNs deadly. Much better than modems, especially for gameing. And noticeably better for downloads. But make sure you get a good TA. (terminal adaptor). Asus or Eicon are good makes, and you can order them cheaply from the UK (IT direct sell Eicon TA's, but I think asus are marginally better, so ordered mine from dabs.co.uk). If you get a bad TA (and I think the one eircom sell is bad) you will add 50 to your ping. From 50 to 100. Or worse. Asus is only about 25sterling anyway.
quozl

Joe22

ok Castor Troy
i was trying not to start a flame
but isdn is ****e
why
you pay more to rent an isdn line then 2 normal lines
your on per minute eircom rates
you will be waiting a month to get the ****ing think installed
you will pay £100+ just for the 128k modem
once everything is up and running and your monthly bills will be £200+
you ping is that great
you download speed isnt anything to brag about(im on snl and i get 5.5kbps download for 20 an extra 3kbps is not worth it)

there you go thats what i think, sorry for trying not to be an opinionated arrogant *******, i guess thats whats expected here.



[This message has been edited by Joe22 (edited 10-05-2001).]

Gerry

Joe, everyone is actually trying to be as polite as possible. But you keep spamming threads where you know nothing at all, ie every thread.

Have you ever used isdn? You certainly don't have it, so theres not a whole lot of point in you criticising it.

yes, you pay more to rent it. Thats because you get what you ****ing pay for. It costs too much relative to what johnny foreigner has, but think relative to Ireland here. Its a solid 64k connect, which connects instantly, doesn't disconnect purely because of line quality ( isdn disconnects are rare, and are usually the isp's fault ).

Pretty much everyone in Ireland will be paying eircom's per minute rate if they can't get ntl, or are booted off esat, so thats not exactly a valid point either. Perhaps you are forgetting that the call rates for isdn are not any more expensive than for modem? Unless of course you use 2 lines. 128k is handy for grabbing big downloads in a hurry though, but 64k is grand for websurfing, and gaming.

"your ping is that great"

I think you mean "your ping isn't that great.
Well once again you show your complete lack of knowledge. Do you play online games?

In most conditions, isdn provides a 50-100 ping. This is waaaay more playable than a modem, and is not subject to severe spikes.
It also depends on the netcode in the game. CS feels great with a 50-100 ping. Usually my ping in cs hovers around 40-70.

In quake3, its around 50-80. Not quite as good as lan, but its very playable, and quake3 is unplayable on modem.

Under ideal conditions, I dial into eircom, and play quakeworld on an eircom server ( vishnu.ign.ie )

Quakeworld doesnt really strain a 64 connect, and has good netcode, so I get a 30-50 ping, usually around 35-40. This is AS GOOD AS A ****ING LAN, at least for me.
So your point is utterly worthless.

As for downloads, if you get a 5.5k download rate on average, on snl, fair ****s, you are one of the lucky few, perhaps even the only one. I only ever hear of terrible d/l rates on esat at busy times. Of course if you are on at a quiet time you will get a better rate, but its hardly the average, is it?

Every time I dial up on isdn, I get at least 7k, usually 7.5-8k a second. The only time it dips below that is if the server I am downloading from is not able to provide that bandwidth, which is rare.

Almost forgot, I paid £50 for my Eicon TA, secondhand. They are available brand new for £70-80, same as a good external modem.

If eircom can stomach introducing a flat rate or reduced rate isdn service, it would be a good rival to cable/adsl for people who don't need *that* much bandwidth.

Regarding installation, if your exchange has no free isdn ports, yes, you will be waiting ages, and yes eircom will screw you round. I waited 10 days. Eircoms service has been top notch, any time it has stopped working, they have been around same day or next working day to fix it.

So STOP writing rubbish about topics you know NOTHING about. You haven't listened to a word anyone has said about you, you still continue to drag your own reputation down. Peoples patience with you has simply run out.

nitr0s

I was able to get 7-8kb's a second on a 56k modem last year before the company went private.Since they went private, they fiddled with my phone line, cut the line feed into limited chunks for their excellent idea of isdn.

TwoShedsJackson

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">you pay more to rent an isdn line then 2 normal lines
</font>

HiSpeed is 35 quid per month for 2 phone lines and 2 ISDN channels. Thats 25 quid a month more than a bog standard line - seems relatively fair here.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">your on per minute eircom rates[/b</font>

Agreed, no flat rate access sucks, but it's not going to change this year for most customers.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">you will be waiting a month to get the ****ing think installed
</font>

As I mentioned above, it seems to be around a week now, in the Dublin area at least.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">you will pay £100+ just for the 128k modem</font>

As also mentioned above, if you bother reading all the replies you will see that an Asuscom TA, one of the best around can now be got for 25 quid sterling. IT Direct on Parliament St. do the Eicon TA (another good one) for about sixty quid.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">once everything is up and running and your monthly bills will be £200+ </font>

Possibly so, but call charges are the same as 56k so why not get the extra speed? Plus the amount you use it is up to the customer.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">you ping is that great </font>

I assume you meant to say your ping isn't that great there. An ISDN ping of 50-60 to a server is a vast improvement over (at best) 120 or so on an analogue modem, which is also subject to line noise amongst many other problems that ISDN doesn't suffer.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">you download speed isnt anything to brag about(im on snl and i get 5.5kbps download for 20 an extra 3kbps is not worth it)</font>

8k a sec vs. 5.5k a sec is 40% faster, that means less time and therefore money on downloads - given that you're paying THE SAME AMOUNT for the 56k conn, I say get it.

Joe22, I've used an ISDN line at home for two years up to February, and going back to 56k is unthinkable just ask any other user.

TwoShedsJackson

Damn it Gerry, great minds think alike obviously

dahamsta

I hate Eircom, but I have to give them one slap on the back this year, and that's the lead on Hi-speed. I enquired about it on Thursday, and ordered it on Friday. I told the girl I needed it urgently, and tried to get the local lineman's number, but to no avail. Got a phonecall from the lineman 9am Monday morning, could he install it at 10am? Installed and ready by 11am. In all honesty though, I think it was more to do with the few quid I bung the lineman every time he comes round than any caring on Eircom's part.

Joe22, I don't know who you are, but you really are out of your depth here. You're commenting on something you know little about, by your own admission. You're going on rumour and supposition. In DSL threads, that's acceptable, but you're talking balls now.

To cover your points, one by one:

> you pay more to rent an isdn line then 2
> normal lines
>
ISDN lines are dual channel, so it's actually two lines. The lines themselves are more expensive because they're digital.

> your on per minute eircom rates
>
State the obvious why don't you? That's why everyone is battling for LLU.

> you will be waiting a month to get the
> ****ing think installed
>
Two people have refuted that in this thread. That used to be the case - it used to be closer to two months actually - but not any more.

> you will pay £100+ just for the 128k modem
>
Only if you're a tool.

> once everything is up and running and your
> monthly bills will be £200+
>
Your bills will be £200+ if you use it £200+ worth. My bill this month was for £114.71, and I use the Internet a LOT. It's all down to management.

> you ping is that great
>
Aside from that being a meaningless sentence, I can't commend because I don't know anything about pings, I'm not a gamer.

> you download speed isnt anything to brag
> about(im on snl and i get 5.5kbps download
> for 20 an extra 3kbps is not worth it)
>
No you don't, that's what your computer tells you you're getting. You can't get more than 4.4-4.8k out of an analog 56k link. Also, there's a big difference between 5.5k analog and 5.5k digital. Digital is clean bandwidth.

strat

Wll ill get isdn as soon as i can afford it (in college atm )
i recon there will be some price reduction (flat rate?) to compete with dsl, cable and wireless (if they ever arrive )
it is a good product imho but overproced atm

and joe22

Wood u ever shut up bl33ting on about stuff u obviously have no grasp of ?

strat

Roffle Mayo
3 peeps smaking down joe point by point !!

wan lads

Joe22

a you see thats what i thought,
i wasnt going to talk crap about something i know nothing about, just made the comment snl is better and left it at that saying i wouldnt like to comment to much as i dont have it.
so then i said what i thought (PS it took me two weeks to get a secound phone line dont BS about 1 week for isdn)

so then ive got 3 guys repeating the same crap at me, maybe you guys should read the posts before, anyway its good to have me make comments like that gerry as if gives you the chance to clear it up.

afew points my monthly bill for 56k if i didnt have snl would be 200+ so i disagree on that

£25 sterling for a isdn, i thought you were making a joke there, i cant even buy a 56k for that.

as for that 5.5kbps being aload of bolox, i average 19mbs an hour, when i run at 5.5kbps i can get that up to 21mb per hour

this is one thing i wont be questioned on

Celt

Jesus Joe, learn your lesson ffs.

padjo

Well, I left this earlier today expectin no more replies but I guess I was wrong! I think isdn tends to be forgotten in the midst of all this adsl talk. bottom line, it seems to be one of the best ways to connect at the mo in this country.

This topic has proved a few things to me:

1) There are a lot of really helpful people out there who dont mind sharing their knowledge

2) There is always one idiot who rears his ugly head (u know who im talkin bout...). Like any other forum, I read a lot before I ever post. Ive read most of the topics on this board and this users continuous barrage of spiteful comments and inaccurate blabberings is really beginning to p*** me off. Its users like that who discourage people from posting again. Somebody do everone a favour and kick him off

p.s. thanks again to everyone

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I charge what I charge because you cant do what I do with a spare weekend and a copy of frontpage express - Web Developers motto

Celt

Joe they never said 5.5k was a load of bollix, ah whats the point, your obviously a stupiud cnut who knows nothing about what you keep bl33ting about. Just fúck off.

dahamsta

I think it's time to do what my mammy always used to say to me:

"Just ignore him and he'll go away."

Joe22

dahamsta thats what i say about your wife, but ever night shes back for more
and WhiteLancer he did you asswhole
he said 5.5bps is not real, as you can only get 4.8bps down a analog line

and i said shut the **** up fool, how do i download 19mb+ an hour then.

so there your wrong, im right, **** you and good night

elexes

it takes 2 secs for me to get connected on my isdn . i only use the 64k line .

i spend 150 a month on phone bills .

it took 4 working days to get it installed ( told them it was for work )since then have had no probs

i have the eircon isdn and that was 80 pounds . my dl speed is always 7.5k ive never seen it drop lower then that yet .
line rent is 3x. a month .

connecting to british and eu q3 servers i always have a ping of 65-80 .

if u dont believe that joe sorry but its true .

also since i just noticed this 4.5 bps ??? bits per sec ???? come on dont you meen kbs and white lancer said kbs .

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what type of world will we live in when there is no world ?

[This message has been edited by elexes (edited 10-05-2001).]

Dont be at yourself

I just ordered ISDN today....

Anyway, I was wondering which isps support it and which is best value for money?

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Eye ham zee Walroos.
You ham zee Flyhead.

Joe22

im talking bites what are you talking? bytes?

Gerry

Joe, you still aren't listening to anything anyone says. Read all the posts, take a while to contemplate them. I reckon you should be kicked from this board, for utter muppetry.

dahamsta

I'm not married. Your mother seems to prefer hard cash.

Joe22

no anymore you dont, she died last night in my lap, it was just TO big for her

and yea my mother prefers hard cash, what type of dual dealer do you take her for.

Gerry, your only sexy when your drunk.

Pharaoh

I've got ISDN about 7 months and it's well worth getting in,you just need to be careful with the amount of time you spend online.
Pings and downloads are good,I had a 65meg download at the weekend and it took about 2hrs to complete,thats not to shoddy now is it!
Eircomnet does not support 128k on it's normal dial-up number,you have to get a subscription account with them at slightly different rates......0.8p min I think.

m1ke

benefits of ISDN over a 56k modem :

connects to the net in .5 seconds or so
downloads about 7-8k instead of 3-5k
a lot more stable, less "dissing" etc...

What I use :
For playing Quake - buyandsell.net - their isp is essentially freeserve UK meaning you can get great UK pings, about 40-50. The ISP also uses STAC compression, which improves ping times in windows 98.

For downloading on 128k i'd use buyandsell.net too - you can get about 15k/sec
For downloading on 64k sec I use an indigo subscription account from work which runs at a cheaper 44p per hour instead of 60p per hour.

Also with ISDN i'd mix my usage of various isps.
Mainly i'd use oceanfree as a backup - it's fairly decent and supports 128k. I'd use buyandsell for playing Quake on UK servers and downloading large files on 128k. I'd use indigo/eircom for surfing, and downloading most things and playing games on Irish Quake3/Half Life servers.

So if you use ISDN to the maximum you can get good results out of it.

But it's expensive, extremely so .... but it ****es all over 56k, i'd never go back to 56k. It's especially good for the gamers out there... i'd really recommend it to gamers ahead of people who just surf and idle on irc and download the odd mp3 because the difference between ISDN and Broadband in games is HUGELY smaller then the difference between ISDN and 56k in games.

yossarin

just remembered, when i had the wall box upgraded to their (eircoms) new model, - "isdn plug n play" it had an unattrative feature where neither of its phone numbers were bound to the physical phone ports on the side of the box. The idea behind this was that incoming calls, no matter to which number, would be sent through to the unbusy line. All well and good except that i wanted to set up a dedicated fax line on one of my new phone numbers.

It can easily be fixed to bind the numbers if you want, but i just thought i'd mention it as it really annoyed me at the time.

ps reading through the posts i realised how spoilt i am with isdn. yes its cráp but its <b>much</b> better than 56k, i should have said.

TwoShedsJackson

Joe you dense ba$tard, I was going to answer all your 'points' again, but this sums it up somewhat better, so with thanks to Azathoth at SA:

yankinlk

jaysus joe you are getting a hammering...

i had isdn for 6 months and i just couldnt afford it anymore, my last bill was 250 pure internet usage and if you are a gamer i have to imagine you will fall into that category more so than a web surfer only category.

you will pay thru the nose and rue look forward to the day you tell eircon to pi$$ off, i did!

it is stble, it is fast enough, but can you afford to get it? if your only option is 56k and you don't imagine getting cable or dsl or anything else in the near future and you just have to be online for games...then unfortunately it's the only way to go.

joe, chill man, you are gonna get your self kicked, or do you love the attention or what?

Celt

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Posted by DaHamsta:
I'm not married. Your mother seems to prefer hard cash.</font>

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joe22:
no anymore you dont, she died last night in my lap, it was just TO big for her

and yea my mother prefers hard cash, what type of dual dealer do you take her for.

Gerry, your only sexy when your drunk.</font>

So Joe you fúcked your own mother til she died? You really are a f00l

Joe22

white sorry, is that how yours died,

Celt

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Joe22:
white sorry, is that how yours died, </font>

Excuse me, where did you get that from?
Your the one who said it.

Leverz

It becomes more and more apparent that you dont have a clue Joe22, you should be asking questions, not giving an opinion that adds up to sweet fu(K all.
You have caused more hassle in the last month than I have seen on these boards in a long time. unplug your keyboard, read and learn. Just shut the fu(K up.

ISDN is well worth it, saves time money (unless you are on ESAT) better for games. Will be perfect when flat rate is released for it. Well untill we all can get cable/ADSL.

Joe22

actually ive only been here 3 weeks
so ha, and im going nowere so get used to it

Dustaz

I started out this thread as a firm anti-isdn type of guy, but reading all this has kinda changed my mind.
If and when SNL finally kicks the bucket, i might just have a look at it. The only thing that still worries me is the cost of converting back to an analogue line whenever dsl comes in. That likely to cost much? or the same as the isdn install?

Joe22

Dustaz, are flaming aside i think theres a problem with going back from isdn,
i know BT is having troble with their isdn users and adsl.
you might need to get a new line in to go back

Stephen

Joe22, kindly wake the hell up and get a clue.

Joe22

stephen shut up fool
god this board is full of ****ers