God, Reality or Myth

bombidol

I was talking about this subject with some friends of mine and it seems to me that most people would rather believe in god and think they are going to heaven than look at the situation from a scientific point of view. Personally i find the whole religion thing sickening

bomb

Keeks

This topic has been debated to death...have a look on the humanities board for other threads on the subject....theres even a poll there on the subject...somewhere

Ser

no such thing, is all made up, god was made up just to keep people in line. think all religion is a waste also, all wars are becoz of it also

bombidol

true, i too think a lot of the bad in the world is over religion

bomb

Saruman

Not all wars but a vast majority are... Religion is fairly evil i think.. dont get me wrong... believing in a God is not wrong... but RELIGION is... it nothing more than a large group of people belonging to some order that has certain rules etc .. instead of simply being about a personal belief in whatever God you believe in!

I mean look how many different Christian religions there are, they all believe in the same God and they are almost identical in every way EXCEPT where the makeup of the church goes.. the differences lie in the rules of the Church itself and not in what the congregation believes usually! its politics at the end of the day... thats what Religion is! Church Law is the problem.. not the belief in a divinity of some kind.. thats harmless until you become fanatical about it.

any comments?

Keeks

ppl cause wars...not religion. It is the application and interperation of religion that leads to wars. Most religious wars start, like in a playground argument, which "My religion is better than yours"...it not religions fault. It ppl

You're looking for scapegoats when you should look in a mirror!

Saruman

Of course its people Keeks... but Religion is still the starting point!! It is what enrages people to that point in the first place.. A lot of people in the world are weak and need guidence and when they find that in a religion they will defend that to the point of insanity sometimes!

Keeks

Religion is a starting point. But most "Holy Wars" are done for greed and power rather than for pure religion reasons. Wars are caused by social cirumstances, and religion is used as an excuse.

Also in poorly educated aeras, like the middle east, religious leaders are seen to be "infalibale" and have power. If they deem something to be true, the ingnorant masses are either too stupid to realise or are too afraid to say so.

Saruman

hmm apparently the pope is infallible... in his later years it would be interesting to see what would happen if he told everyone to declare war on some other religion... would everyone do it? Or would the church say "eh sorry his mind is going" which then begs the question how can he be infallible?

sorry not quite on topic but relevant all the same..

Keeks

No one said he was 'infalible'. I was refering to poorer regions where the relgious leader was usually the leader of the local community. If you look at our history you will see that this was the case here aswell.

But take a look at what this pope has done compare to previous popes. He brought a peaceful end to communism in his home country, when he could had condorned there previous militant stratagies. He has advocated peace at every chance. This is the way a church leader should be. He has embraced other religions, such as russian and greek orthodox churches.

The question you have to ask yourself is why? Why has he done all this and no other pope has?

btw...i ain't religious.

Khynareth

As for God, I don't know, and I don't really care. If I was to believe in something, the Buddhist vision of the world is the one that satisfies me most.

God might exist, I don't know. What I know is what man has done of the concept of God (i.e Religions) is b***s**t. The idea/concept of God is not bad in itself, what it is/has been/will be used for is crap.

If I were to believe in one God, I'd chose the God of Hangovers (cf. Terry Pratchet!)

Fat Sunny

Religion is like tobacco. If newly introdused today it would be rejected without a second thought.

Keeks

When discussing religion ppl forget the most important thing about it. It has created us. Otherwise we would be no different than any other mammal on the planet. It created something that shapes our lives today.

It gave us morals.!

Monkey

It can not be proven one way or the other, A god may exist which would be nice, or the notion of a god may just have been fabricated by people because of a fear of death and the inability to explain certain things

I am an agnostic. I hope there is a god and a heaven because it is a reassuring thought.

chernobyl

"Adam and Eve: a fly on the wall story"

We pick up this epic story when both creatures have become sexually mature enough to procreate with each other.

Adam and Eve have noticed changes in each other over the past year or 2, the fact that they are both bollock nekkid only exaggerates these new feelingf for each other.

Adam likes Eve, Eve likes Adam.
They have shared many many "non-forbidden" apples with each other and now notice physical reactions in each others presence.

[problem1:how do Adam and Eve learn about sex?]

On Adams many hunts in the forrest he has been privileged to observing very strange animal behaviour...Adam coins a new phrase for the ritual "oohh ohhh ohhh..ahhhhhhh"...Adam notices key similarities between his body and the animals and decides Eve willing or not shall test this out with him....long intresting story made very short...they mate, they like it but now we encounter:

[problem2:if Adam and Eve have several children, both male and female, the only way to keep re-producing is for these children to inbreed]

inbreeding often leads to the inbred child lacking key genes that would otherwise be present in a normal child.
If this practice was to be continued the human race would eventually be dead or severly fuked.

Evolution is real, Mr G.O.D. is not.

Stephen

My opinion:

Religion = Bollocks.

Dustaz

NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

This is what we have the humanities board for!

AH is clearly for Cosmopolitan readers and threads with half naked birds.

Mossy Monk

God is only there to keep people from misbehaving which obviously doesn't work on a lot of souls. i will not believe there is a God until the day i die and i am being judged by a giant with a beard on a cloud. if God existed why is AIDS about and wars and all that. it is a load of bollox IMO

wiredtothemoon

hmmmm, you should all be more careful, it's not wise to show such disrespect to god

Yurmasyurda

Well it's a nice thought except from the extremist point of view, "oh I'll just blow myself up and go to heaven and become rich and get 50 zillion wives" emm no!!!!!!!!! I am fairly laid back, I don't really care but I am scared of dying, the thought is very comforting and maybe that's why it came about.

Giblet

Theres going too far and theres going too far, but this is GOING TOO FAR http://www.thetruthforyouth.com they attack everything.
Read the evolution one especially. The earth is only 10,000 years old apparently! And Adam and eve DID exist according to it.

cournioni

Adam and Eve = Bull****. The reason why I think it is bull**** is because there are more races in the world than just two people. And if it is true were all alive because of some inbred hicks.

However, I do believe we were put here for a reason. I mean... someone had to make this piece of **** planet. Could be nature, it could be anything. It is all unknown to us. We'll just have to see what happens when we die.

If there is a god... well, I'd say I'll be going to hell.

Meh

Originally posted by Giblet
Theres going too far and theres going too far, but this is GOING TOO FAR http://www.thetruthforyouth.com they attack everything.
Read the evolution one especially. The earth is only 10,000 years old apparently! And Adam and eve DID exist according to it.

http://www.chick.com/catalog/tractlist.asp is even funnier. Why Catholics aren't Christians, why Muslims worship the moon god and why playing Dungeons and Dragons will send you to hell.

Johnny_the_fox

God Knows......

I do believe ( <-I sound like one of those Mental Believers "i do believe that god ....blah blah" ) but
Sometimes I wonder with all the crap that happens in the world........

Dave

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
Adam and Eve = Bull****. The reason why I think it is bull**** is because there are more races in the world than just two people. And if it is true were all alive because of some inbred hicks.

Evolution.

However, I do believe we were put here for a reason. I mean... someone had to make this piece of **** planet. Could be nature, it could be anything.

The big bang.

I don't really believe in a god. I think the buddhists have very valid views. They believe in living your life for now not for what will happen after you die. They believe in the sanctity of human life and the like.

As some chap said "Religion is the opiate of the people"

Manach

A minority view on this thread, but I am a believer in God.
Also from my rather paraphrased reading of Von Clustwitz, wars are started because one side is strong enough to take what they wish from a weaker power, and choose whatever is the current dominent belief system to cover with a cloak of repectability their deeds.
Finally, AH this is the Buffy images thread, Humanites is where the dour subjects.

Monty - the one and only

whats this doing here?

Moved.

Biffa Bacon

A belief that there is no God is pure superstition. For the most part, organised religions make the world a better place as they ensure people behave morally. Religious wars etc. are usually a departure from most moral codes.

TwoShedsJackson

As usual Biffa, you're taking $hite. How can not believing in God be a superstition? Surely having an imaginary friend who's going to make it all better for you in the next life is the superstitious outlook?

Yes organised religion makes people behave morally. If by moral you mean crashing airliners into skyscrapers, blowing each other up in Palestine over what it says in the Bible, and buggering young children who are placed in your care - amongst thousands of other transgressions.

'Religious wars are usually a departure from most moral codes' - tell that to the victims of the Crusades, the intifadas, the Holocaust.

Biffa Bacon

How can not believing in God be a superstition?

What evidence would you expect to find if there was a God? You wouldn't expect to find any surely. Therefore you cannot dismiss the existence of God on the basis that there is no evidence to support this. Similarly, you cannot say that there is no evidence that God does not exist and thus he must exist. Therefore to believe one way or the other, that he does or doesn't exist, is just as superstitious as the other. The only way to avoid this is to say that you are agnostic.

Yes organised religion makes people behave morally. If by moral you mean crashing airliners into skyscrapers, blowing each other up in Palestine over what it says in the Bible, and buggering young children who are placed in your care - amongst thousands of other transgressions.

These are all inspired by human or political motives, not by their respective religions.

'Religious wars are usually a departure from most moral codes' - tell that to the victims of the Crusades, the intifadas, the Holocaust.

What's your point?

As usual Biffa, you're taking $hite.

As usual I win another argument. What's it now, 20-nil to me?

CodeMonkey

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon

What evidence would you expect to find if there was a God? You wouldn't expect to find any surely. Therefore you cannot dismiss the existence of God on the basis that there is no evidence to support this. Similarly, you cannot say that there is no evidence that God does not exist and thus he must exist. Therefore to believe one way or the other, that he does or doesn't exist, is just as superstitious as the other. The only way to avoid this is to say that you are agnostic.

OMG, castortroy is right, you are talking pure ****e. Do you even know what constitutes a superstition? What's irrational about not believing in something because there's no evidence of it?

koneko

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
As usual I win another argument. What's it now, 20-nil to me?

I'm having serious difficulty believing Biffa Bacon is an actual person, with these views. Surely you're just a troll, trying to get a rise out of people?

Superstition. You don't even know what the word means. Believing in a fairy tale being that makes everything alright is superstition. Do you believe in Santa? Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy? Do you believe in little green goblins that come and take your money away while you're asleep? No? Surprising that. To me believing in any of them is the same as believing in God.

Castor Troy is right, you're full of ****e. You don't even know what you're talking about. If you did, you shouldn't be saying "I win another argument". Get a clue, stop trying to force your morals onto other people (see lesbian deaf child thread).

TwoShedsJackson

Your example is pathetic. Not crossing the path of a black cat is superstition, therefore someone who doesn't believe that crossing a black cat's path brings bad luck is also superstitious?

Do you even understand what's happening in Palestine? The reason they are killing each other is because the Jews and Palestinians both lay claim to the land in the Bible - a religious book. Therefore religion is the root cause of the conflict. The human motive is religion.

seamus

Ummm....Biffa. There's proof for the lack of existence of a God. What's that? Things called evolution, and death, and the fact that there is zero proof of the existence of a God.

As for the Old testament, it's all a bit too old now. Any meaning in it should be taken as metaphor as opposed to reality. The Church's anti-contraceptiveism comes from the Old Testament - a collection of documents more than 2000 years old. Hmmm...

Dave - evolution? That happens over hundred's of thousands of years.



(That truthforyouth site made me literally ROFL. 'Let's singlehandedly disprove evolution through conjecture and propaganda!')

ThreadKiller

You should all take a look at a book called Angels & Demons .

While primarilly it is a not so great mystery novel, it has a lot of basis in fact & gives for & against arguments about religion & the big bang theory.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by CodeMonkey

What's irrational about not believing in something because there's no evidence of it?

It's not irrational, it's just that believing that there isn't a God is based purely on faith.

Biffa Bacon

Superstition. You don't even know what the word means. Believing in a fairy tale being that makes everything alright is superstition. Do you believe in Santa? Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy? Do you believe in little green goblins that come and take your money away while you're asleep? No? Surprising that. To me believing in any of them is the same as believing in God.

Perhaps superstition is the wrong word, as it implies that something is clearly fanciful and I wouldn't say that about believing that there isn't a God. I would say however that believing there is not a God is just as superstitious as believing there isn't a God. So if you believe one is superstitious then you should believe the other is too.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by Castor Troy
Your example is pathetic. Not crossing the path of a black cat is superstition, therefore someone who doesn't believe that crossing a black cat's path brings bad luck is also superstitious?

Well first of all you could define what you mean by "luck" and then conduct scientific experiments to see if someone who does cross the path of a black cat is more "unlucky" than someone who hasn't. But this sort of scientific investigation cannot be applied to the question of does God exist.

Do you even understand what's happening in Palestine? The reason they are killing each other is because the Jews and Palestinians both lay claim to the land in the Bible - a religious book. Therefore religion is the root cause of the conflict. The human motive is religion.

So why are secular Jews and Arabs fighting too? The cause of the conflict is a political one, i.e the creation of a Zionist state on Arab land.

Biffa Bacon

Things called evolution...

How does evolution prove there isn't a God?

...and death...

How does death prove there isn't a God?

...and the fact that there is zero proof of the existence of a God.

How does the fact that there is zero proof of the existence of a God prove there isn't a God?

DeVore

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon

Perhaps superstition is the wrong word, as it implies that something is clearly fanciful and I wouldn't say that about believing that there isn't a God. I would say however that believing there is not a God is just as superstitious as believing there isn't a God. So if you believe one is superstitious then you should believe the other is too.

As someone who has studied Logic formally for years, thats some of the most fúcked up logic I have ever read.

DeV.

Biffa Bacon

Originally posted by DeVore
As someone who has studied Logic formally for years, thats some of the most fúcked up logic I have ever read.

DeV.

Yeah, but is it right or wrong?

Slydice

I must compemplate what DeVore looks like when he tries to understand logic

seamus

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon
How does the fact that there is zero proof of the existence of a God prove there isn't a God?

Ummm. emmm... wtf do you say to something that's just completely and utterley wrong?

So, by your logic, unicorns, trolls (real ones ), dragons, hobbits, and pretty much anything else, exist. It must also mean that the royal family are all lizards and that the US government are in cahoots with aliens. After all, I can't prove any of it doesn't exist, so it must still be possible.



(Also it is believed God created man. Evolution proves man is basically an ancestor of a single-celled animal that came about after billions of years of amino acids bonding with eachother and fiddling around.)

DeVore

Originally posted by Biffa Bacon

Yeah, but is it right or wrong?

I would say badly wrong.

It cant be formally dissected as its not based on a structure which can be proven to have been broken, but your use of English is criminally sloppy for this kind of argument.

Also, there is a understanding in logic that the burden of proof rest with those who are moving against entropy. (Think of entropy as being a lazy universe ... it doesnt want to do anything so the lowest energy state is the default, and also the state to which the universe will revert to over time. That much at least is well accepted physics.)

You cannot equate the probability of a deity existing with the probability that it does NOT exist.

A god is not required to explain how everything around us is the way it is. Hence it would be classed by many as "superstition" to believe in one.

I dont believe in tooth-fairies and you couldnt class me as superstitious for NOT believing in them.

DeV.

Rabies

I might as well add my 2 cent.

if you look in the news, every day there is a war fought over religion, sectarian attacks etc. i think this would turn many people away from religion. why bother try to believe in something when there is no actual proof that it exists.

most young people don't believe in god or they are not sure. before people start quoting me i said "most young people".

i think this is because people now have more freedom of taught and expression. when our parents were young religion was part of their every day life. you would have to go to mass a few times a week or at least once etc..

young people now are taught to explore their taughts and give their views on a wide range of topics. up until 20yrs ago religious orders held a grasp on education in ireland. religion was drilled in to people from an early age. if you went against the religion in school you would have had the sh|t kicked out of ya.that just doesnt happen now, people believe what they what.

Rabies

it is my view that religion was created thousands of years ago out of FEAR...

people were afraid of what they didn't understand... wars were fought over who was right or wrong... science has developed so much in the past few hundred years, now we can explain why crops fail, earthquakes happen and many other things that terrified the minds of our ancestors...

the world wasn't created in 7 days by God, if it was he took is time the world was created over billions or millions of years, this is a proven fact... religious text is full with flaws... it is all so vauge... that is why the bible has captured the minds of people through out centuries... people needed something to believe in during hard times...

so to cut things short--> God????? God who???

He/She/It doesn't exist ...

well thats my view and if i'm wrong well then i'm damned to hell

Terminator

I'm not sure why we're all here but something definitely created our solar system - whether it was a God or an intergalactic committee remains to be seen.

Rabies

I'm not sure why we're all here but something definitely created our solar system - whether it was a God or an intergalactic committee remains to be seen.

i would rather believe in the "intergalactic committee" bit than believe that some holy power, a "God" created us.... other life on different planets to me seems to explain more than some guy that was here since the dawn of time....

koneko

Exactly! Like I said.

Biffa, do you believe in Santa?

Why not?

Do you have any evidence there is no Santa? How can you possibly know? Your logic is flawed. I wouldn't even call it logic.

Personally I'd rather believe in Santa than "God". At least Santa does some good in the world. What does "God" do? Cause wars, kill people. Great.

Religion is here to control people. It tells everyone how they should think, what should be right and what should be wrong. I prefer living my life the way I want instead of having it dictated by the church. The bible is a book full of metaphors. It's just a book. People should read it and take it for what it is instead of basing their lives on it.

God did not create man. Man created God. Just like man created Bugs Bunny and Coca Cola.

Augmerson

To all the people who dont believe:

How do you substitue the reliable secure feeling that knowing in the end, You'll be off to a better place? I've come to the conclusion that when I die, thats it. Game over. No more, the nothingness, the void.

I would interested to hear how you coped and what you believe now please

Biffa Bacon

So, by your logic, unicorns, trolls (real ones ), dragons, hobbits, and pretty much anything else, exist. It must also mean that the royal family are all lizards and that the US government are in cahoots with aliens. After all, I can't prove any of it doesn't exist, so it must still be possible.

No, by my logic they almost certainly don’t exist. If they did exist you would expect to find some proof of their existence. If God does exist, however, you would not expect to find verifiable proof. Therefore by my logic, you cannot dismiss the possibility that God does exist.

(Also it is believed God created man. Evolution proves man is basically an ancestor of a single-celled animal that came about after billions of years of amino acids bonding with eachother and fiddling around.)

If you accept that is correct then you do not conclude that God does not exist, you just conclude that creationism is false.