Is it possible for a guy to be a nice guy without being,as sven put it, a pervert etc

Crash

Little argument Sven and I are having.

Basically, he says that all guys who seem nice and sweet are in fact perverts, psychos castrated etc.

am i the only one who thinks this is completely illogical??

I mean, i am neither castrated (i swear ), a psycho (well, not obviously anyway) or a pervert (well, its all relative), and i like to consider myself a nice guy. so a) am i right, and therefore its possible, or b) is sven right, and deep down i'm a psychotic pervert?


-You decide-

Mahotée

i like guys, in general. probably more than i like girls, though that might just be because i am one, so i know that we arentalways ecxactly sugar and spice and all things nice. so yeah, definitely not all nice guys are perverts etc.

lordsippa

let's face it! i didn't say i hate men but i do think that in fairness men are all pretty much scum.

i mean, the amount of perversion your typical man will come out with (even if just in jest) is worrying...

and neil you are pursuing this argument to a worrying level (almost like you have some brain disease like psychosis or such... ;p) so you DO have flaws. and aideen has pointed out that you're romanticising of EVERYTHING has on occasion driven her mad so there! not quite mr. perfect. which was really the point i was trying to make... there is no perfect guy. the scum bit was more me being tired and grumpy... but i made a stand and i guess i'll have to stick by it.

SO... <looks at all guys> you all suck. a lot.
<looks at all girls> and you're not so perfect yourselves.

now if you'll excuse me i have people to fix.

Mahotée

Originally posted by lordsippa
let's face it! i didn't say i hate men but i do think that in fairness men are all pretty much scum.

no more so than the rest of humanity.

[/i]i mean, the amount of perversion your typical man will come out with (even if just in jest) is worrying...

so can girls. but some people still stick doggedly to that cute fantasy that girls really are delicate flowers, despite all the evidence.

[/i]SO... <looks at all guys> you all suck. a lot.
<looks at all girls> and you're not so perfect yourselves.

nobodys perfect. we're all just people. havent you been paying attention?

lordsippa

Originally posted by Mahotée

nobodys perfect. we're all just people. havent you been paying attention?

I'm SICK of hearing that as an excuse for people being substandard. i can't believe that being a person is to blame for someone not being perfect. it is within the grasp of some people but they ruin it and should be shot. so shut up or be complained at! right?!

Sven,
The Irritable.

Asuka

Youve provided the option, i dont need to.

A

imp

I *think* I'm an ok person. And I'm definitely not a paedophile/castrated/...

ah well

oh yes and before Sven/anyone else starts making smart comments: Yes, I am a guy.

}:>

Typedef

Yes 'nice' guys exist.

They are called 'Brad', typically have iq's of around 110, drive yuppie cars and use wwwaaayyy to much brillcream(to compensate for the small brain).

Unfortunately smart guys realise that women are essentially evil and avoid them like the plague 'nice' guys wear suits, shave every day, wear too much aftershave and bear a striking resembelance to Ken yes the emasculated male doll from Barbie.

You want to meet a nice guy, go get yourself a Ken doll.

Now on special offer Ken dolls $9,99,99.95

smiles

Nice guys don't really exist. They lie, twist things, hurt you, refuse to listen and shove things in your face. Pretty much the same as girls then.

I try to be a nice person, I can honestly say that I try really really hard to make sure that I don't hurt people. but sometimes you have to look out for yourself and others get hurt. It's life, and unfortunatly its the way things go.

Had one of those revelations last night where you realise that things are indeed full of **** and that no matter what you do people will still lie and hurt you because they're afraid of the truth. It's like I used to be so i guess i cant complain.

(i need a hug)

<< Fio >>

Typedef

I always find hugging trees beneficial
/

imp

Aww poor fio

<HUG>

}:>

bubbles

Nice guys don't really exist. They lie, twist things, hurt you, refuse to listen and shove things in your face. Pretty much the same as girls then.

I know loads of nice people, who would do anything for someone else before taking themself into consideration....

To say nice guys don't exist is of course your perception, your experience, and all I can say is that it must suck, if that is what you honestly believe/experienced.

I persume you'll never get married or anything, since there are no nice guys out there, no one that will listen to you, and will simple shove anything and everything into your face... but your right, we are all the same, Nelson Mandela has always reminded me of Hitler.

qwidgybo

1)sven,my romanticising of things is what drives me mad,not neil's.
2)i think nice guys do exist.
3)no,they're not brad,and they do not resemble ken dolls,and they aren't bridging on perfection,but they are nice.
4)*hug* for fio-i'll give you a real live one in school my dear

lordsippa

AHEM. I'm male.

And a big hug to fio! Hell... she's getting my entire hugs quota for the next year.

Oh, and to all of you who have voted against me:

BLARGHABLE!

Boston

nice guys get walked on.

nosmo

I belive it is possible to be nice and not any of the above... but many of the girls that have liked me have reached the conclusion: "hes so nice... he must be gay"

I brag not..
This has happened a number of times!!

_
If Microsoft made airbags, they would ask you "Are you sure?" before activating

nosmo

Also, i want plain atari Jaguar.!!!!!
This is so important that it merits an extra post...

--
*

Now I have one of these star things...
Does that mean I'm cool?

Crash

and neil you are pursuing this argument to a worrying level (almost like you have some brain disease like psychosis or such... ;p) so you DO have flaws. and aideen has pointed out that you're romanticising of EVERYTHING has on occasion driven her mad so there! not quite mr. perfect. which was really the point i was trying to make... there is no perfect guy. the scum bit was more me being tired and grumpy... but i made a stand and i guess i'll have to stick by it.

first of all, i am attempting to prove a point, because i believe that not all guys are as you said.

Also, this isnt about mr. perfect, this is about nice guys existing who arent complete perverts, psychos etc.

Yes 'nice' guys exist.

They are called 'Brad', typically have iq's of around 110, drive yuppie cars and use wwwaaayyy to much brillcream(to compensate for the small brain).

Unfortunately smart guys realise that women are essentially evil and avoid them like the plague 'nice' guys wear suits, shave every day, wear too much aftershave and bear a striking resembelance to Ken yes the emasculated male doll from Barbie.

You want to meet a nice guy, go get yourself a Ken doll.

Now on special offer Ken dolls $9,99,99.95

I thought you cornered the selling market for Ken dolls, or were they your private collection? :P (okay, i know this is partially validating svens point, but its too easy)

Nice guys don't really exist. They lie, twist things, hurt you, refuse to listen and shove things in your face. Pretty much the same as girls then.

*hug* to Fio.

Though i do disagree on that point. lets see, i a) never lie to my friends (actually cant, i don't have the willpower to look one of my friends in the face after i lie to them)
b) if anyone can name a time i have done any of that to anyone, i will admit defeat. and it has to be a time i actually did it, not just a)in jest or b)made up.

Also, i want plain atari Jaguar.!!!!!
This is so important that it merits an extra post...

Lol, i put in that option specifically to stop adam screwing around with my poll!

Shoeless Ailbhe

Well, seeing as this is kinda turning into a bit of a guy-girl debate, i must say I think we're even. I mean, look at the comparisons:

There are no perfect men.
There are a good lot of nice, decent men, but there not always nice and decent in everyone's eyes.
There are an amount of horrible, perverted, psychopaths who are male.

But then:

There are no perfect women.
There are a good lot of nice, decent women, but there not always nice and decent in everyone's eyes.
There are an amount of horrible, perverted, psychopaths who are female.

I just had to add two letters to each sentence in the the "Male" paragraph to make the "female" paragraph. Just thought you'd like to know.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that nobody is perfect, yea there are disgusting people of both sexes, but the majority of people in the world are actually nice. But some people don't suit others, and people have preferences. Someone who seems nice in your eyes may be a b*****d according to me, so each one to their own. Takes all kinds to make a world! So nice males exist, as do nice females.

Crash

I agree with ailbhe. though this hadn't really become a male v. female fight IMO.

Just me wondering if i was the only one who didnt think all us guys were horny crazy perverts.

alaskagirl

hmmm....my cat is meowing. alot of guys are nice. Idont like it when people assume a guy is gay just because he's nice.ERG. It bothers me. THen rumors start and people get hurt and .......yeah, im rambling.

WhiteWashMan

just because youre a nice guy doesnt mean you dont think about sex.
im a nice guy and what i wouldnt do to britany spears....

Man U babe

Being a nice guy does not imply perfection, which is impossible. So I think it is possible to be a nice guy/girl without being a pervert etc.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Man U babe
Being a nice guy does not imply perfection, which is impossible. So I think it is possible to be a nice guy/girl without being a pervert etc.

so what is a pervert?
you mean you dont think about anything at all?

smiles

I stand by what I said.

There is no such thing is a genuinely "nice" person, people try but they ultimetly fail. It's one of this things you learn to live with.

I don't need hugs, i'm perfectly happy.

<< Fio >>

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by smiles
I stand by what I said.

There is no such thing is a genuinely "nice" person, people try but they ultimetly fail. It's one of this things you learn to live with.

I don't need hugs, i'm perfectly happy.

<< Fio >>

there are a lot of genuiinely nice people.
just because they dont buy you a ferrari and are there for you 100% of the time doesnt mean they arent nice.
it means they have their own lives to lead.

id also like to know what is meant by 'nice' anyway?

chernobyl

Could someone define what they think a pervert is for me?

Surely thats too subjective just to say "i think "x" is perverted so you do too"...

SOL

well I know for a fact I'm not a nice person, and **** thats life so i don't really care, people may claim otherwise and i do nice things by times but all in all inside i don't really care how the world ends or for most of the rest of humanity, in fact i despise most of them but I am me and what I am is what I am and I just have to experience this life and see what comes next.

Asuka

I try to be as not nice as possible, whenever i can remember to be.

A

Cait

of course they exist. they only don't if you decide they don't

Cake Fiend

I'm a 'nice guy', but I'm also a pervert.
Hey, at least I'm honest enough to admit I'm a pervert

Shinji

The only nice guys ARE the perverts. No seriously. Genuinely nice guys are all perverted, and generally really quite open about it. It's the ones who AREN'T perverted you want to worry about. They're planning something, I tell you...

(Me, well jesus, if we assume that perversion and being nice are linked, I must be the nicest guy on the whole damn planet... )

Mahotée

Originally posted by lordsippa
I'm SICK of hearing that as an excuse for people being substandard. i can't believe that being a person is to blame for someone not being perfect. it is within the grasp of some people but they ruin it and should be shot.

i checked up briefly last night, saw this and assumed you were taking the p1ss. but just in case

i wasnt giving an excuse for people 'being substandard'. not that i, as a girl, and therefore perfect beyond anything with a y chromosome could comprehend, owe you any excuses. im saying that they (all people, including you and me, isnt belief in equality fun?) are standard. you just wish the standard was higher. maybe you think your friends are better, but no, its just that theyre your friends so theyre less likely to mistreat you than strangers or enemies. and even if they do, you'll forgive them, or take it as a joke, because they're friends, yeah? i

oh, you absolutely were taking the piss. you were! say you were. of *course* ou were. werent you?
at this stage, thought, i wont believe you even if you claim you werent.

um . . . i have a dictionary here (it was in the room anyway) for definitions, cos i hate having to define stuff.
i think the meaningmost peopoe are using for 'nice' here is "kind, good-natured".i think the oed definition of pervert is too extreme for what people here or talking about. im taking it to mean an individual who is overly and unwantedly (and often knows it) lecherous. feel free to use other definitions of either, of course.

but i think that fionnuala is wrong, in that its the trying to treat others well that makes a kind person. because it would be so easy to just look out for yourself, but some people keep trying to make life a bit better for others too.

i'll probably think about this and type more some other time. maybe.

smiles

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan


there are a lot of genuiinely nice people.
just because they dont buy you a ferrari and are there for you 100% of the time doesnt mean they arent nice.
it means they have their own lives to lead.

id also like to know what is meant by 'nice' anyway?

I dont want a ferrari.

My idea of nice is not someone dedicating their life to me, that's hero worship and putting people on pedestals, etc. Things that i cant actually stand.

Nice is being nice because they can be, and being honest. Not nice is being a lier and deliberatly hurting people.

Perverted doesnt come into it (for me), all guys are perverted.

I dont think there is anyone who is completely genuinely nice. It's a human failing.

<< Fio >>

imp

To me, nice is genuinely wanting and trying to make other people happy.

I think its very easy most of the time, and also rewarding.

}:>

Crash

Originally posted by smiles

I dont think there is anyone who is completely genuinely nice. It's a human failing.

<< Fio >>

Ok then, niceness, as is perversion, is all relative.

And i agree with ian, you get that lovely warm feeling inside knowing you helped someone, made them happy etc and its a good enough reason to try as hard as you can to be nice

yossarin

niceness is a perversion, in the hunter gatherer sense.

oh - atari jarguar !

Typedef

You think people are nice out of the goodness of their hearts? Beg to differ.
People are nice because it affims their own ideas of how they should behave and in the end that person finds self gratification in preforming 'nice' acts.
The fact that some people delude themselves into thinking that they are doing or being nice for someone other than themselves is a crock. Real life doesn't work like that, people aren't just arbitrarily 'nice' and wholesome to each other, there is always an ulterior motive wether that motive be conciously recognised by the 'nice' person or not.

Nice 'guys' invariably want something in return for their selflessness whether said Ken automaton knows this to be true or not.

People give selflessly because deep down they want to feel like martyrs or some other such nonsense, when I give to charity for example it is because I recognise that having billions of people in poverty in perpetuity is unsustainable and I'm quite sure on a subliminal level such random acts of kindness make me feel good and self assured, but that is the maslowian impetus behind such things I am sure. The id ultimately controlls many of the facets of life that people delude themselves into thinking is free and reasoned choice.

Belch

imp

I can say with complete honesty that the only motive I have for making other people happy is because it helps keep me happy too. Now I don't see anything wrong with that, do you?

}:>

Cait

do you remember in friends when phoebe tried to find a selfless act?

lordsippa

ARGH! NOT THE ALTRUISM DEBATE!


and hold on... this wasn't about if people can be nice. yes, they can. and i like to think that i am a nice person.

BUT i do hold that anyone truly perfect, anyone without some flaw is not nice... they would be far too serious if they had no flaw.

Perversion (which i personally hold as a godly way of being) is one example of things that make nice men nice. especially to women. i can think of very few women (although i can think of some) whom i will be nice to and will not feel some sort of happiness (and let's face it - it is sexual no matter how much we deny it, we just don't get the same thrill from guys - unless we're gay). it's just their smile, or the way they get all happy and emotive that makes it work. and no, that's not perversion... i know. but this is trying to slowly lead you down the path of understanding why guys are (for the most part) complete perverts.

but yes... say someone isn't interested in sex. well... they've gotta get their thrills from somewhere. and if they are nice and fun and interesting they're going to have to have some interesting hobbies (let's face it - sex is VERY interesting). something weird and unusual. something crazy (or completely psycho)... again... leading towards proving my point.

and pervert guys can be all nice and then not perverted if castrated. so there.

and there's the whole gay debate. but i didn't mention gay cause let's face it - some gay people can be right asshole the same as non-gay people. there's no difference apart from which side we all like to get into (or have get into us) so i really don't thinks it's fair to make comparisions...

chernobyl

The reason sex is so interesting is because we very rarely talk openly about it.
Even women who talk in a much more liberal manner to each other about sex still find it interesting but thats why guys have such a fascination about sex.
We are pretty muted about the details of sex with each other and long may it continue.

imp

For me I don't think sex would be interesting because of some sort of social taboo that's attached to it. For me it'd be interesting because it was about the expression of emotions towards someone. That's just me of course, there are some people who find it interesting purely because of the physical pleasure involved.

}:>

Crash

Originally posted by chernobyl
The reason sex is so interesting is because we very rarely talk openly about it.
Even women who talk in a much more liberal manner to each other about sex still find it interesting but thats why guys have such a fascination about sex.
We are pretty muted about the details of sex with each other and long may it continue.

That is also kinda comparable to my theory as to why it is much easier for a straight girl to kiss a girl than a straight guy to kiss a guy.

a) catholic church always mentions homosexuals in reference to male homosexuality, well almost always. and as i'd say a large proportion of us were attempted to be brought up catholic, it has a deep rooted influence within our culture. also, tv will always show to lesbians kissing, but rarely two gay guys kissing, so people are much more openly exposed to female homosexuality than male </off topic rant>

and sven, the argument isn't whether people are nice are not, its whether they can be nice without having a large percentage of the attributes that you mentioned in the other thread.

Ferror

I guess you could say i'm a nice person!
But infact i'm really only nice to those i'd consider to be my friends!!
Everyone else would probably consider me a complete arsdehole becouse i am!! <at least to them> and possibly a bit of a psyco too, but hey thats just a matter of opinion.

still it kinda proves sven's point!

SheroN

what a silly debate.

four_star

you started the thread you knob!!

Crash

No he didnt, i did. and this is a community, so basically it makes little difference if its irrelevant etc. because it is a discussion among members of said community.

lordsippa

and sven, the argument isn't whether people are nice are not, its whether they can be nice without having a large percentage of the attributes that you mentioned in the other thread.

Ok... to answer this argument see...

and hold on... this wasn't about if people can be nice.

smiles

Nice is relative.

Someones lover is someones bastard.

<< Fio >>

rymus

Originally posted by lordsippa
but i do think that in fairness men are all pretty much scum.

Then it seems quite likely you have been associating with the wrong type of men. Not all men are scum, just the type that women normally go for.. the whole 'bad boy' image and all that