wireless mouseses..es

MelKor

i was about to buy the microsoft wireless intellimouse explorer the other day but beforei did i asked a buddy o mine if i should(me being a braindead idiot and all) anyway he said no way that wireless are crap. but its not because its wireless that i wanted it, its the feel of the thing, go to http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouse/wie_info.asp
to see it it rocks
what i really want is a second opinion, are they really that bad? i mean for games not other stuff, for fps's and the likes can someone convince me please to fork out €68 quid for something i really want!!

Boston

were are you getting it for 68 euro, the cheapest ive seen it is 83 euro, even in england its still about 80, with dabs havign the cheapest i find(but then shiping)
are you sure you added the vat on.

anyway, wireless, ive a logitech wireless optical mouse, and the thing is useless, jerks all over the screen, stalls, the works, i thnk the reciever might have gotthen a knock but when i opened it nothing seems out of place.

The thing to understand is the electric fields do effect wireless mice, or if you have another wireless product(keyboard) with its own reciever, make sure they are far enough apart, about a meter or two.

if your till having problems try changing the channel the mouse is on.

some people swear by these things, ive never had much luck, i was thinking about giving the microsoft one a go though.

WhiteWashMan

theyre ok for office work.
pain in the butt when you have to change batteries.
the ms 5 button optical is the best bet for your funny euros.....

po0k

Wireless aren't as good as corded for games, especially anything that requires semi-fast reactions.
You say youy want it for the feel of it?
Afaik the wireless are pretty much the same as the corded MS mice.
Just get what WWMan said.

Boston

Originally posted by SyxPak
Wireless aren't as good as corded for games, especially anything that requires semi-fast reactions.
You say youy want it for the feel of it?
Afaik the wireless are pretty much the same as the corded MS mice.
Just get what WWMan said.

no, it has the whole sapced like the pam of your hand thing, its more covered and smouth.

its like the difference between a square block and a round cylinder in your hand.
it is though, loosely based on the design of the corded version

davros

I'm using a Logitech wireless mouse (with an old-fashioned ball underneath) right now. It has always worked perfectly.

On my own PC (not Internet-connected), I have a MS Trackball Explorer . Did you try it? It will feel a little strange at first but I swear by it now. It's just so comfortable and it has all the extra programmable buttons.

sutty

I'm using a M$ Optical second gen mouse that does 6000 scans a second. It is great for games and standerd office work as it can wor on almost any surface. although it isn't wireless

Koopa

wireless mice are crap
they have a lag of about 1/5 of a second or so, which doesnt sound like a lot, but gets really annoying after a while, and thats just in general usage.. dont even try to use them for quake-style games, its like adding 200 ping to whatever your ping is

Koopa

/rant

SantaHoe

Originally posted by Koopa
wireless mice are crap
they have a lag of about 1/5 of a second or so, which doesnt sound like a lot, but gets really annoying after a while, and thats just in general usage.. dont even try to use them for quake-style games, its like adding 200 ping to whatever your ping is

Yeah that sounds horrible alright, I was looking at some wireless force-feedback (!) mouse in GAME a few weeks ago, and although I liked the idea of force-feedback on a mouse - just imagine how it'd screw up your aim.
Someone taps you with the machine gun, and your rail misses by 20 degrees
I wouldn't imagine 12+ hours of force-feedback would be too healthy for your hands nerve endings?
Wireless mice... pah!
Ball mice all the way baby

Boston

Originally posted by SantaHoe

Wireless mice... pah!
Ball mice all the way baby

the added lag has nothing to do with optical or ball, but to do with wireless and corded.

infact an optical mouse is probably better for gaming reaction time then a ball due to less friction.

really wireless mice or statue symbols, nothing really pratical about them

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Boston


the added lag has nothing to do with optical or ball, but to do with wireless and corded.

infact an optical mouse is probably better for gaming reaction time then a ball due to less friction.

really wireless mice or statue symbols, nothing really pratical about them

boston, please please please get a sense of sarcasm.
that joke was gaping at you like a really big gap-py thing.

we all know that ball mice are not as good as optical.
stop being a technical whiz kid and try having a sense of humour will you.

SantaHoe

Originally posted by Boston
the added lag has nothing to do with optical or ball, but to do with wireless and corded.

I gathered that yeah, thanks for clearing that up for the 0 (zero) people who were confused on the issue.

infact an optical mouse is probably better for gaming reaction time then a ball due to less friction.

Ah ok, I guess you're right... considering all those CPL tourneys you've won and all.
Some people prefer ball mice for other reasons than pure response time... I've always found 'mouse-flicking' more relyable with ball mice... as opticals seem less predictable at times and you end up aiming at the ceiling.

This is all completely besides the point though.
Personally I wouldn't bother with cordless mice, as the wire doesn't get on my tits to the point where I'd be willing to shell out extra €'s just to be rid of it.
And at least you'll never lose your mouse if there's a wire fixing it to your PC

Boston

i find it hard to detect this form of sarcasm.

amp

And yet you have a sarcasm device ((tm) WhiteWashMan) installed in your wonderful signature

I had two wireless mice and while the lack of cable was novel for a while it became increasingly annoying to find the pointer getting erratic and then the frantic search for two AAA batteries as the juice runs out.

I switched to a MS Explorer Optical 3 (now with 33% extra something or other!) with a USB cable and I wub it dearly. It has 5 buttons, the two extra being marvelous for forward and back in IE.

I've seen a ridiculously overpriced Packard Bell cordless mouse (can't remember if it's optical or not) that has rechargable docking cradle which I'd imagine would resolve the running out of juice problem.

Koopa

actually the skipping in most current optical mice is caused by the low sample-rate of the optical sensor (1500 scans per second is not enough)

the new 6000 scans per second mice are better than ball mice, as in they "skip" even less than a ball mouse, but since there are only 2 models of this currently out(both microsoft), and both models have "issues" (crap buttons, crap 'feet' , etc.), i went back to my mouseman non-optical (for now..)

oh yeah, explorer 3.0 is one of these 6000/sec mice

noog

I've currently got a Microsoft Intellimouse optical usb yoke, the white one with the 5 buttons.. it works a treat, but if you move it uber uber uber fast, it will actually travel in the opposite direction.

I dont notice many tracking issues, however my flex on the mouse is fractured somewhere, and it keeps cutting off randomly in the middle of tfc or something, in Windows98 it used to crash halflife to say 'Windows has detected new hardware and is locating the software..." but in XP, it just makes its little boing noise, and its back in action. hoorah!

SantaHoe

Koopa - are there any good utils around for measuring mouse sample rate, DPI or whatever?

<edit>

From microsoft.com:
IntelliEye Optical Technology
Now you can experience the benefits of the world's most powerful optical technology. The IntelliEye® optical sensor replaces your old-fashioned mouse ball. Capturing 6,000 frames per second, it delivers up to four times the performance of other optical mice.

So apparently my new(ish) optical mouse has that problem sorted... It still feels like it's either over or under-aiming when I move it too quicky. (mouse acceleration is: off)
Maybe it's just my surface, but I still reckon quick aim is more 100% spot on with a good quality USB ball mouse.
</edit>

Koopa

yeah, look for "mouserate" on google.com - its a windows program to measure current mouse sample rate

as for dpi, you can do this easily with mspaint or whatever, while the mouse is on the drawing board, it tells you the loaction of the mouse in the corner of the screen in (x,y) coords.. so move the mouse from (0,0) to (800,0) , and see how many inches its moved on the mousemat using a ruler - if its moved one inch, then you have 800 dpi, if its moved 2 inches, then 400 dpi - simple as that

for this to work, you need to have pointer acceleration off in windows, and mouse speed set to the default(or the middle notch, or 1 pixel=1 hardware movement notch, whatever)
works best if you move the mouse slowly, to avoid slipping

koneko

My corded optical Logitech mouse.... Great.

My cordless one.... AWFUL. They're incredibly slow, you're always having to change the batteries (which to be honest doesn't help much), and it's awful for gaming (you can't hit a specific spot on the screen, so aiming is out of the question). I'm hoping mine is broken so I can get it replaced cos it's that bad.

leeroybrown

I have a Logitech corded Optical iFeel mouse ATM.
I find its very good and accurate. The force feedback is really good too (especially in Medal Of Honour - Allied Assault).

The Logitech MouseMan Dual Optical is a really cool mouse too.

I wouldn't touch cordless myself.

Kairo

Question...

I have one of those MS Optical V3 Mouse Doo-Hickies and Ratpad..pretty good for Cake 3 and I was wondering about the USB-PS2 adaptor supplied with it.

I think I heard somewhere that PS2 can run at anything up to 200hz, which is faster than whatever the hell USB is.

Can anyone confirm this? What type of setup would be best for a bit of Quacking?

SantaHoe

Yeah AFAIK, ps2rate can set you up on 200Hz, but I've heard people say their mouse gets a bit buggy when they go that high.
Personally I stick to the USB connector, which apparently is high enough for most people.

...
Hmm I just used that mouserate proggy, 125Hz for my Microsoft wheelmouse optical (running on USB port) .... I'd be tempted to stick the PS2 converter on it and try 200Hz, but then again I can't quite be arsed
Has anyone had good/bad experiences doing this? Especially with the USB>PS2 setup?

vac

Aye i got a logictech ifeel mouse, its usb but for some reason my motherboard won't pick up anything from usb, dunno wtf is up there. Ive used the usb2ps2 converter that came with it, it runs at 125hz max also. I heard using USB is better, wish i could get mine working ;/

Strange enough when i move to left or right really fast it tends to go wonky, might just flick down or up instead, i found this problem occurs in Nethouse also. Ive installed the drivers dunno what it is..

koneko

Originally posted by VacilatoR
Aye i got a logictech ifeel mouse, its usb but for some reason my motherboard won't pick up anything from usb, dunno wtf is up there. Ive used the usb2ps2 converter that came with it, it runs at 125hz max also. I heard using USB is better, wish i could get mine working ;/

Did you check your BIOS in case USB is disabled?

I've tried my mouse with both USB and PS2 (the blue-y Logitech optical one with wheel, mouseman wheel maybe?), and USB generally seems a bit smoother, plus I hate using old mousepads (mmm, RatPad on the way).

vac

Did you check your BIOS in case USB is disabled?

Aye i did awhile back, its not

Gerry

I have the new ms optical with 2 buttons, and I think its really impressive. It tracks even the tiniest movement, and I don't move it fast enough for it to start tracking the wrong way. (Though this can happen if you force it). I think the feet are really good, but I think my everglide mat will wear them down really quickly, so I'll have to start looking for a new mat.

As for ps2 vs usb, I couldn't get the win2k version of ps2rate working so I'm on usb for the moment. Koopa, can you post up roughly why ps2 is better (lets say that you had the ps2 rate at 125hz to level the playing field). I remember you saying something before about latency, but I don't see latency being a problem unless you had loads of usb devices active while playing quake or whatever..

po0k

USB runs at 48.xxxMhz doesn't it?
Independant of FSB or what have you.
I have a corded Logitech Dual optical.
800dpi, 4000 refresh. Using it with the PS/2 adapter.
It says on the manual to use the USB cos the PS/2 'might not give full performance' it data rate is to low.
I'll be plugging in the USB tonight. WIll post tomorrow.
I'm using it on a veneered desktop. It's skipped about twice, though that I put down to the rather shiney top.
Going to stick a piece of Levis to a bit of plywood and see what happens.
Of all things don't use opticals on translucent material or anythig resmbling graph paper.
I've started playing Q3 a bit more competently (don't laugh Sam) with the mouse, enjoying it for once now Bet Xaero on the middle difficulty setting. Was getting him with mid-air rails and everfing.....might move onto the insane difficulties and then try playing #MAURA# and Thrax anbd see how I get on.
The mouse is deffinately TEH UNNNNNF! compared to my piece-of-pish 4-yer-old MS Mouse 2.0

Koopa

well 200hz ps2 is definitely better than 125hz usb

as for usb vs ps2 on an even footing, if it were possible..
im not sure exactly what causes it, in win98se anyway usb seems to have lower cpu priority, dunno why, you can see this in windows when youre copying large files and the mouse begins to move slower, doesnt happen with a ps2 mouse tho
i think what probably happens while youre playing a game is, the usb mouse doesnt get enough cpu, so it feels like it has lower refresh sometimes - dunno for sure tho, i use 200hz ps2

Kairo

In win2k and XP, you can set the PS2 rate in the mouse settings in the control panel.

I'm using my ms mouse now with ps2 adaptor and rate set to highest. I honestly can't notice a difference, but I suppose it'd help in Quake somewhat

Balfa

I bought the Logitech cordless desktop optical (keyboard & mouse) after reading reviews that it was good for gaming. It's not Although i'm starting to get used to the input latency in DoD and move my mouse to where i feel the target will be a split second afterwards

Anyhoo, in MY logitech instructions it said to use the PS2 port in preference. didn't say why though. This may be due to the fact that PS2 is on a higher (and therefore greater priority) IRQ. Default PS2 IRQ is 12, whereas USB is usually on 10 or 11. Add to this the fact the USB mouse is competing for bandwidth on the USB bus AND the PCI bus (and therefore requires more CPU usage), and i'd say PS2 is a winner.

With regard to moving a mouse fast and making it go backwards (or just jiggle back in forth in one place), all mouses do this, although some do it at lower speeds than others, and this new logitech cordless optical of mine gives up tracking sooner than any other mouse i've used
I don't know, but my guess is that this factor is related to the scanning frequency of the mouse.

speaking which, what's the difference between the 6kHz that new MS mouses scan at, and the 200Hz the PS2 port runs at? seems a bit pointless having it scan so high if it can't transmit that fast.

That is all.

Koopa

the 6khz scanning has nothing to do with the 200hz ps2 sample rate

Gerry

It scans 6000 times a second so it can make a good guess of where it is, ie it can detect the smallest changes in its location. If it was scanning at say 50hz, it might decide that one part of the mouse mat looked exactly like another, and so the pointer wouldn't move at all. The 200hz rate is how often it actually sends data to the pc.

spooky donkey

well i was going to get a rf optical mouse that i saw in lidl for eur30.
But after reading this forum i think not.
I`ll stick to corded optical mice from now on.

zAbbo

I`ve tried many Female mice(no balls) over the years and i`ts really down to users preference, at the i`m using an intelliMouse Optical which i`m fine with. The best mouse i`ve used is a trust cordless mosue and it`s pretty good for gaming, it has a nice weighty feel as well. Compustore etc usually stock these, but don`t pay over the odds to spotty computer clerks who make the usual "do you want a cat with that" joke

koneko

Their joke is no worse than yours, sorry to say it pcirl
("I`ve tried many Female mice(no balls)").

I would not use a cordless mouse for gaming. Personally I use it only for desktop use (clicking aimlessly around Windows), and use the optical corded Logitech one for games. I know some people swear by ball mice, suppose it's up to the individual, but for me cordless mice just don't have the precision needed for games.

Someone I know just got the cheapo optical one in Lidl, must try it out (out of interest), and see what it's like.

zAbbo

Cheers:D
But as i said its up to the person, the thing with normal corded mice is that they tend to get in the way of your stuff on the disk(coffee cups etc)and the constant lifting of the mice(to get them to respond and...ahhh i just don`t get on with them.